461 réponses à ce sujet

[BigGuy28]

It doesn't have to make sense! Indoctrination!

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

KDD-0063 wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

hoodaticus wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Tom Lehrer wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Sorry The Arrival is canon for everyone that played it, you don't get to say what's "canon" and what isn't.

We had this same argument last night *facepalm* 

It is only canon in games were it was done. There and many, many Shepards that did not do Arrival and Hackett sent someone else to do it.

This means it cannot be used as a valid argument for IT because not every Shepard did it.

Hey as long as it's canon for me the theory works....

Yes, by making that their main line of attack, they've conceded the truth of IT for everyone who either read the comics or played Arrival.

It's kind of interesting that a sinlge peice of DLC can change people's perception though huh?

Anyway, there's still plenty of ways to 'increase' the time of contact with reaper tech.
They could also argue that between ME1 and ME2 when fighting the remaining geth force, Shepard also contacted some reaper tech.

It's just that anything is possible with EC.

It's kind of scary, isn't it? Honestly, I think the only way I'd love the implementation of I.T. is if Shep is indoctrinated or killed regardless and you just see scenes of every one dying. The amount of IDGAF in that kind of ending would be so mind-numbingly bold, so baller, that I would laugh my ass off, wipe the tears from my eyes, stand up, and clap until my hands are worn raw.

And that is my dream ending.

The rage that would induce would be absofreakinglutely delicious.

These forums would become one of the angriest, frothiest, boiling-kettle-of-human-frustation-est places on the internet in a matter of seconds. It would be beautiful.

[Tom Lehrer]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

angriest, frothiest, boiling-kettle-of-human-frustation-est places

Sounds like my house on a normal afternoon

[TudorWolf]

Assuming the Citadel isn't an indoctrinating device (coz if it was, we're already screwed), there's really only two times in the series when Shep is definitively exposed to actively indoctrinating objects (discounting sidequests): The Derelict Reaper and Object Rho, and Object Rho isn't a necessity. Arrival is canon in that it happens, but Shep wasn't necessarily involved.

That aside, Shep and co. never display any of the "canon" symptoms of indoctrination. The codex lists such possible symptoms as including headaches, hallucinations and feelings of "being watched". None of them are ever mentioned in ME3 (dreams are not hallucinations before anyone gets any notions)

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

TudorWolf wrote...

Assuming the Citadel isn't an indoctrinating device (coz if it was, we're already screwed), there's really only two times in the series when Shep is definitively exposed to actively indoctrinating objects (discounting sidequests): The Derelict Reaper and Object Rho, and Object Rho isn't a necessity. Arrival is canon in that it happens, but Shep wasn't necessarily involved.

That aside, Shep and co. never display any of the "canon" symptoms of indoctrination. The codex lists such possible symptoms as including headaches, hallucinations and feelings of "being watched". None of them are ever mentioned in ME3 (dreams are not hallucinations before anyone gets any notions)

Pretty much, yeah. I was just trying to cover every possible source of indoc., going as far to include the Collector's b/c they were made by the Reapers with Reaper implants. Same with Reaper ground troops.

[EricHVela]

TIM used Reaper tech everywhere. Why not in Shepard, too? He was apparently under the impression that there was no risk of indoctrination with Reaper implants in himself and Kai Leng.

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

ReggarBlane wrote...

TIM used Reaper tech everywhere. Why not in Shepard, too? He was apparently under the impression that there was no risk of indoctrination with Reaper implants in himself and Kai Leng.

That's not explicitly or implicitly stated within the plot, so to count it would be a big straw grasp. And if so, it makes everything pointless as Shep would have already fallen so far under Reaper influence as to be unsavable. That's almost a year of direct exposure and no hope of it being stopped, unless he gets his vital implants ripped out.

[EricHVela]

Don't forget the fact the Reapers targeted Shepard for recognition (Harbinger spoke of Shepard to the other Reapers). Despite it being explicit that they did indeed focus on Shepard, that's just a straw grab.

People will accept and ignore what they want. That goes for those supporting indoc and those denouncing it.

Once people choose to ignore valid possibilities because they have set filters, you know they've stopped listening.

You can talk to people that won't listen, but they won't listen.

[garrusfan1]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...

TIM used Reaper tech everywhere. Why not in Shepard, too? He was apparently under the impression that there was no risk of indoctrination with Reaper implants in himself and Kai Leng.

That's not explicitly or implicitly stated within the plot, so to count it would be a big straw grasp. And if so, it makes everything pointless as Shep would have already fallen so far under Reaper influence as to be unsavable. That's almost a year of direct exposure and no hope of it being stopped, unless he gets his vital implants ripped out.

yeah but like I said miranda felt bad about wanting to put in a control chip think she would`ve told shepard hey by the way some of soverine is in you just my opinion oh I do agree with IT

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

ReggarBlane wrote...

Don't forget the fact the Reapers targeted Shepard for recognition (Harbinger spoke of Shepard to the other Reapers). Despite it being explicit that they did indeed focus on Shepard, that's just a straw grab.

People will accept and ignore what they want. That goes for those supporting indoc and those denouncing it.

Once people choose to ignore valid possibilities because they have set filters, you know they've stopped listening.

You can talk to people that won't listen, but they won't listen.

That's a perfectly valid point, about Harby, I mean. But, how would you apply it to the thread? Seriously, I want to see where this goes.

[111987]

ReggarBlane wrote...

TIM used Reaper tech everywhere. Why not in Shepard, too? He was apparently under the impression that there was no risk of indoctrination with Reaper implants in himself and Kai Leng.

You can't use unfounded speculation as evidence of indoctrination.

Not saying that's what you're doing, just speaking generally...

[garrusfan1]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

ReggarBlane wrote...
TIM used Reaper tech everywhere. Why not in Shepard, too? He was apparently under the impression that there was no risk of indoctrination with Reaper implants in himself and Kai Leng.

Are we allowing wild fan speculation into evidence now? How can we defend ourself from that kind of testimony.

nice quote

[kleindropper]

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Can't. Not all Shepards play Arrival. It still happens, however, but Shep is never exposed.

Every Shepard DOES Arrival whether you play it or not.  It's the whole reason Shep is jailed on Earth for 6 months.  So that's two full days of direct contact with a Reaper indoctrination device; a  device that knocks Shepard out if Shepard defeats the military onslaught on the asteroid base.

Add to that Shepard being chock full of Reaper tech and IT is a definite possiblity.

[Leonardo the Magnificent]

kleindropper wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Can't. Not all Shepards play Arrival. It still happens, however, but Shep is never exposed.

Every Shepard DOES Arrival whether you play it or not.  It's the whole reason Shep is jailed on Earth for 6 months.  So that's two full days of direct contact with a Reaper indoctrination device; a  device that knocks Shepard out if Shepard defeats the military onslaught on the asteroid base.

Add to that Shepard being chock full of Reaper tech and IT is a definite possiblity.

No, for the last time Shepard does not play Arrival if you don't download it. Instead, Hackett sends in a spec op team, they blow up the facility, and die in the process, hurting your EMS. Shepard is on earth for collaborating with Cerberus. There is also no basis for Shep being made of Reaper tech.

[jijeebo]

kleindropper wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Can't. Not all Shepards play Arrival. It still happens, however, but Shep is never exposed.

Every Shepard DOES Arrival whether you play it or not.  It's the whole reason Shep is jailed on Earth for 6 months.  So that's two full days of direct contact with a Reaper indoctrination device; a  device that knocks Shepard out if Shepard defeats the military onslaught on the asteroid base.

Add to that Shepard being chock full of Reaper tech and IT is a definite possiblity.

NO. Hackett sends other people to do it for you and youre on earth due to other stuff. This has been explained already a ridiculous amount of times on this thread.

Also, Shepard isn't chock full of reaper tech.

EDIT: ninja'd I need to learn to type faster

Modifié par jijeebo, 14 mai 2012 - 01:25 .

[ShaneP]

In the story to ME3 it's made clear that it was actually Miranda that argued for planting stuff in Shepard to control him and TIM that vetoed that idea, because he realised despite the risk of Shepard not trusting Cerberus (s)he was more valuable without his/her free will being subverted. As someone who studied reapers TIM would have known that if Shepard had become implanted then (s)he would probably have started to lose his or her ability

[balance5050]

jijeebo wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Can't. Not all Shepards play Arrival. It still happens, however, but Shep is never exposed.

Every Shepard DOES Arrival whether you play it or not.  It's the whole reason Shep is jailed on Earth for 6 months.  So that's two full days of direct contact with a Reaper indoctrination device; a  device that knocks Shepard out if Shepard defeats the military onslaught on the asteroid base.

Add to that Shepard being chock full of Reaper tech and IT is a definite possiblity.

NO. Hackett sends other people to do it for you and youre on earth due to other stuff. This has been explained already a ridiculous amount of times on this thread.

Also, Shepard isn't chock full of reaper tech.

EDIT: ninja'd I need to learn to type faster

Yeah, but it makes a helluva lot more sense if you do play The Arrival.....

[jijeebo]

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Can't. Not all Shepards play Arrival. It still happens, however, but Shep is never exposed.

Every Shepard DOES Arrival whether you play it or not.  It's the whole reason Shep is jailed on Earth for 6 months.  So that's two full days of direct contact with a Reaper indoctrination device; a  device that knocks Shepard out if Shepard defeats the military onslaught on the asteroid base.

Add to that Shepard being chock full of Reaper tech and IT is a definite possiblity.

NO. Hackett sends other people to do it for you and youre on earth due to other stuff. This has been explained already a ridiculous amount of times on this thread.

Also, Shepard isn't chock full of reaper tech.

EDIT: ninja'd I need to learn to type faster

Yeah, but it makes a helluva lot more sense if you do play The Arrival.....

Well it isn't canon, so that doesn't make any difference.


This thread is about the BARE minimun amount of contact a Shepard can have, not how optional contact plays to the indoc theory.

[balance5050]

jijeebo wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Can't. Not all Shepards play Arrival. It still happens, however, but Shep is never exposed.

Every Shepard DOES Arrival whether you play it or not.  It's the whole reason Shep is jailed on Earth for 6 months.  So that's two full days of direct contact with a Reaper indoctrination device; a  device that knocks Shepard out if Shepard defeats the military onslaught on the asteroid base.

Add to that Shepard being chock full of Reaper tech and IT is a definite possiblity.

NO. Hackett sends other people to do it for you and youre on earth due to other stuff. This has been explained already a ridiculous amount of times on this thread.

Also, Shepard isn't chock full of reaper tech.

EDIT: ninja'd I need to learn to type faster

Yeah, but it makes a helluva lot more sense if you do play The Arrival.....

Well it isn't canon, so that doesn't make any difference.


This thread is about the BARE minimun amount of contact a Shepard can have, not how optional contact plays to the indoc theory.

Oh, it looked like another IT thread to me by the comments.

Modifié par balance5050, 14 mai 2012 - 01:44 .

[TheLastAwakening]

jijeebo wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Can't. Not all Shepards play Arrival. It still happens, however, but Shep is never exposed.

Every Shepard DOES Arrival whether you play it or not.  It's the whole reason Shep is jailed on Earth for 6 months.  So that's two full days of direct contact with a Reaper indoctrination device; a  device that knocks Shepard out if Shepard defeats the military onslaught on the asteroid base.

Add to that Shepard being chock full of Reaper tech and IT is a definite possiblity.

NO. Hackett sends other people to do it for you and youre on earth due to other stuff. This has been explained already a ridiculous amount of times on this thread.

Also, Shepard isn't chock full of reaper tech.

EDIT: ninja'd I need to learn to type faster

I did not play arrival so why does Balak think I am responsible for what happened to his people in the mission Batarian codes?

Edit: I did play arrival for xbox 360 but I do not have it for Ps3, however, Balak still thinks I am responsible for what happened to his people. I can confirm this since I just replayed that section. Why, would be apprieciated.

Modifié par TheLastAwakening, 14 mai 2012 - 01:47 .

[2Hard2C]

This is going by real time which is likely to be much shorter than game time. Real time =/= game time and makes this largely arbitrary and very invalid scientifically.

However EDI is based off of Reaper tech(arguably the entire ship is too) so there could be minimal exposure for at least 60 hours real time(few if any sidequests). Also the Reaper IFF is still on board so there is that.

[jijeebo]

TheLastAwakening wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

Leonardo the Magnificent wrote...

Can't. Not all Shepards play Arrival. It still happens, however, but Shep is never exposed.

Every Shepard DOES Arrival whether you play it or not.  It's the whole reason Shep is jailed on Earth for 6 months.  So that's two full days of direct contact with a Reaper indoctrination device; a  device that knocks Shepard out if Shepard defeats the military onslaught on the asteroid base.

Add to that Shepard being chock full of Reaper tech and IT is a definite possiblity.

NO. Hackett sends other people to do it for you and youre on earth due to other stuff. This has been explained already a ridiculous amount of times on this thread.

Also, Shepard isn't chock full of reaper tech.

EDIT: ninja'd I need to learn to type faster

I did not play arrival so why does Balak think I am responsible for what happened to his people in the mission Batarian codes?

Probably a bug with the Bring Down the Sky flags transferring into an ME3 game.


Or Bioware forgot to add another option.

Or Balaks an idiot with a vendetta against Shepard, idk.

[Shock n Awe]

Grimgaww wrote...

Don't forget that you've got 2 years between ME1 & 2 so the IT process should start all over again on 2.

Derelict Reaper would be full blast Indoc.  Nothing says indoctrination has to occur over one set time period, presumably any exposure - spread over any time period in any length intervals - would contribute towards the whole.

Also, presumably any time you are in (relatively) close vicinity to a Reaper you are being indoctrinated (due to their use of infrasound in indoctrination), and this can raise questions as to whether or not you are being indoctrinated in parts of the game.

There's also the question of how time passes in the ME universe.  Obviously Shepard didn't do everything in ME3 in 35 hours, or ME2/ME1 in about 30 hours a piece (my perfectionist completion times).  So what we perceive as an hour on the Derelict Reaper could have actually, in ME time, been a half-day long slog in the canon sense.

Modifié par Shock n Awe, 14 mai 2012 - 02:07 .