461 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Elyiia wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

"An excavation team in the Minos Wasteland on the planet Aequitas found a Reaper artifact that creates advanced husks. This device does not resemble dragon's teeth at all, instead featuring an orb of energy that turned the excavation team into husks with what appears to be a form of indoctrination, according to logs kept by the team, before it started creating more husks."

Seriously? This device does not resemble dragon's teeth at all. They have different purposes, one does not prove the other indoctrinates by being there.

In the  back room, not the thing in the center.

[Sisterofshane]

dreman9999 wrote...

.No...No...no..no.
I'm saying husk give off indoctriantion feilds..

Ah - yes that's possible.  If they are basically implanted with reaper tech, it is possible, as the codex states that the Reapers are capable of technically amplifying their indoc "signals" through the bodies of those who have been indoctrinated - why wouldn't they also be able to do this with husks?

Modifié par Sisterofshane, 14 mai 2012 - 06:16 .

[Elyiia]

dreman9999 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

"An excavation team in the Minos Wasteland on the planet Aequitas found a Reaper artifact that creates advanced husks. This device does not resemble dragon's teeth at all, instead featuring an orb of energy that turned the excavation team into husks with what appears to be a form of indoctrination, according to logs kept by the team, before it started creating more husks."

Seriously? This device does not resemble dragon's teeth at all. They have different purposes, one does not prove the other indoctrinates by being there.

In the  back room, not the thing in the center.

Seriously, I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're actually not understanding this. The orb is what caused the indoctrinated agents who then used the dragon's teeth. This is not hard.

[111987]

@dreman9999

Saren was not indoctrinated after he died. You cannot indoctrinate a dead brain.

You can implant a person, who then dies, and then take control of their body provided it is still intact.

Otherwise we would see the equivalent of zombies running around everywhere the Reapers are. Implants are a necessity in this situation.

[dreman9999]

Elyiia wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

"An excavation team in the Minos Wasteland on the planet Aequitas found a Reaper artifact that creates advanced husks. This device does not resemble dragon's teeth at all, instead featuring an orb of energy that turned the excavation team into husks with what appears to be a form of indoctrination, according to logs kept by the team, before it started creating more husks."

Seriously? This device does not resemble dragon's teeth at all. They have different purposes, one does not prove the other indoctrinates by being there.

In the  back room, not the thing in the center.

Seriously, I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're actually not understanding this. The orb is what caused the indoctrinated agents who then used the dragon's teeth. This is not hard.

1.There is no orb...Just the object that is simular to what the geth were worshiping in Faros.
2. I already movedon from Dragon teeth indoctrianting.
3. Husk can indoctrinated as well....And they are found on dragons teeth.

[Raiil]

dreman9999 wrote...

-snip-

Are you just... ignoring everything I actually say? Seriously? I said that there is no proof that all Reaper-based tech is capable of passive indoctrination.

I am not saying that Reapers can't use their foot solders are Indoc amplifiers.

I am not saying that it doesn't exist, I even noted some cases where we know it to be fact.


So are you just blowing off what I actually say, or what?

[dreman9999]

111987 wrote...

@dreman9999

Saren was not indoctrinated after he died. You cannot indoctrinate a dead brain.

You can implant a person, who then dies, and then take control of their body provided it is still intact.

Otherwise we would see the equivalent of zombies running around everywhere the Reapers are. Implants are a necessity in this situation.

Your not getting mypoitn..The damage is still there....Think ofindoctrination like brain damege..You can't undo it andit does not go away. Even if it doesnot advance when Shepard isdead...It' still there to start agein when Shepard is revived. Think of it like a snow ball effect. It's still count as 3 years because nothing can be undone...Think ofit like TIM's indoctrination that lasted, slowly for over 20 years.

[111987]

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

@dreman9999

Saren was not indoctrinated after he died. You cannot indoctrinate a dead brain.

You can implant a person, who then dies, and then take control of their body provided it is still intact.

Otherwise we would see the equivalent of zombies running around everywhere the Reapers are. Implants are a necessity in this situation.

Your not getting mypoitn..The damage is still there....Think ofindoctrination like brain damege..You can't undo it andit does not go away. Even if it doesnot advance when Shepard isdead...It' still there to start agein when Shepard is revived. Think of it like a snow ball effect. It's still count as 3 years because nothing can be undone...Think ofit like TIM's indoctrination that lasted, slowly for over 20 years.

No, you are not getting my point. You said Sovereign could indoctrinate Saren's dead brain, which is how he controlled him. This is FALSE; he controlled them through the implants.

Even if your claims that Shepard's mind somehow retained the indoctrination 'seed' in it, how do you explain the fact that Shepard has been exposed less than a full day throughout all three games (assuming you don't do Arrival)? Unless you are suggesting indoctrination, once it hits you, grows on its own without any more exposure. Which would be totally unfounded.

TIM was not slowly indoctrinated after 20 years. He only became indoctrinated after implanting himself.

[dreman9999]

Valentia X wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

-snip-

Are you just... ignoring everything I actually say? Seriously? I said that there is no proof that all Reaper-based tech is capable of passive indoctrination.

I am not saying that Reapers can't use their foot solders are Indoc amplifiers.

I am not saying that it doesn't exist, I even noted some cases where we know it to be fact.


So are you just blowing off what I actually say, or what?

Let's take a quick note of the reaper based tech we seen in the game.
1.Dragons teeth.
2. Implants.
3.Indoctriantion devices.
4. The reapers them selves or reaperparts.
.....
2 and 3 we know can indoctrinate becauseof the codex andstory.
4 We know indoctriante based on the dead reaper and the hanar diplomate.
Only1,dragons teeth is question....But every dragon teeth we see has husk on it....Regardlessif the dragons teeth can indoctriante you or not...The husk still can.
....
Do you understand now?

[Elyiia]

dreman9999 wrote...

Seriously, I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're actually not understanding this. The orb is what caused the indoctrinated agents who then used the dragon's teeth. This is not hard.

1.There is no orb...Just the object that is simular to what the geth were worshiping in Faros.
2. I already movedon from Dragon teeth indoctrianting.
3. Husk can indoctrinated as well....And they are found on dragons teeth.

1) That is the orb, it says so right in the passage you linked.
2) Good, because there's no evidence they do.
3) It specifically says that Husks can give off the signal, however this is not what actually indoctrinates. The nanites are what indoctrinate. The husks can allow the Reapers to amplify the commands to the nanites. Otherwise every single front line unit would be indoctrinated. Furthermore Shepard's contact with husks is literally a few seconds before he explodes them.

Modifié par Elyiia, 14 mai 2012 - 06:28 .

[balance5050]

111987 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

111987 wrote...

@dreman9999

Saren was not indoctrinated after he died. You cannot indoctrinate a dead brain.

You can implant a person, who then dies, and then take control of their body provided it is still intact.

Otherwise we would see the equivalent of zombies running around everywhere the Reapers are. Implants are a necessity in this situation.

Your not getting mypoitn..The damage is still there....Think ofindoctrination like brain damege..You can't undo it andit does not go away. Even if it doesnot advance when Shepard isdead...It' still there to start agein when Shepard is revived. Think of it like a snow ball effect. It's still count as 3 years because nothing can be undone...Think ofit like TIM's indoctrination that lasted, slowly for over 20 years.

No, you are not getting my point. You said Sovereign could indoctrinate Saren's dead brain, which is how he controlled him. This is FALSE; he controlled them through the implants.

Even if your claims that Shepard's mind somehow retained the indoctrination 'seed' in it, how do you explain the fact that Shepard has been exposed less than a full day throughout all three games (assuming you don't do Arrival)? Unless you are suggesting indoctrination, once it hits you, grows on its own without any more exposure. Which would be totally unfounded.

TIM was not slowly indoctrinated after 20 years. He only became indoctrinated after implanting himself.

Saren created Cerberus, a splinter group that thought to control the reapers ad were indoctrinated.

EVERY CYCLE HAS A SPLINTER GROUP THAT WAS INDOCTRINATED AND THOUGHT TO CONTROL THE REAPERS.

As Neo would say "It's just another form of control"

Of course TIM had at least a hint of indoc to be manipulated in to serving the reapers like so many before him have.

[Elyiia]

balance5050 wrote...

Saren created Cerberus, a splinter group that thought to control the reapers ad were indoctrinated.

EVERY CYCLE HAS A SPLINTER GROUP THAT WAS INDOCTRINATED AND THOUGHT TO CONTROL THE REAPERS.

As Neo would say "It's just another form of control"

Of course TIM had at least a hint of indoc to be manipulated in to serving the reapers like so many before him have.

What? Whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaattttt?

Cerberus started as an Alliance black ops, you have to be trolling.

Modifié par Elyiia, 14 mai 2012 - 06:35 .

[balance5050]

Elyiia wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Seriously, I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're actually not understanding this. The orb is what caused the indoctrinated agents who then used the dragon's teeth. This is not hard.

1.There is no orb...Just the object that is simular to what the geth were worshiping in Faros.
2. I already movedon from Dragon teeth indoctrianting.
3. Husk can indoctrinated as well....And they are found on dragons teeth.

1) That is the orb, it says so right in the passage you linked.
2) Good, because there's no evidence they do.
3) It specifically says that Husks can give off the signal, however this is not what actually indoctrinates. The nanites are what indoctrinate. The husks can allow the Reapers to amplify the commands to the nanites. Otherwise every single front line unit would be indoctrinated. Furthermore Shepard's contact with husks is literally a few seconds before he explodes them.

2) they do because the residents of Eden prime commented on how they make noise.

3) And where do the nanites go when the husks "explode"? All over Shep and into the air.

[balance5050]

Elyiia wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Saren created Cerberus, a splinter group that thought to control the reapers ad were indoctrinated.

EVERY CYCLE HAS A SPLINTER GROUP THAT WAS INDOCTRINATED AND THOUGHT TO CONTROL THE REAPERS.

As Neo would say "It's just another form of control"

Of course TIM had at least a hint of indoc to be manipulated in to serving the reapers like so many before him have.

What? Whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaattttt?

Cerberus started as an Alliance black ops, you have to be trolling.

You do remember what Vigil said correct? Pretty much what it said is what I said.

TIM made Cerberus his own.

Modifié par balance5050, 14 mai 2012 - 06:39 .

[Raiil]

dreman9999 wrote...

Valentia X wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

-snip-

Are you just... ignoring everything I actually say? Seriously? I said that there is no proof that all Reaper-based tech is capable of passive indoctrination.

I am not saying that Reapers can't use their foot solders are Indoc amplifiers.

I am not saying that it doesn't exist, I even noted some cases where we know it to be fact.


So are you just blowing off what I actually say, or what?

Let's take a quick note of the reaper based tech we seen in the game.
1.Dragons teeth.
2. Implants.
3.Indoctriantion devices.
4. The reapers them selves or reaperparts.
.....
2 and 3 we know can indoctrinate becauseof the codex andstory.
4 We know indoctriante based on the dead reaper and the hanar diplomate.
Only1,dragons teeth is question....But every dragon teeth we see has husk on it....Regardlessif the dragons teeth can indoctriante you or not...The husk still can.
....
Do you understand now?

1. Dragon's Teeth do not show any signs of passively indoctrinating
2. Implants do not show signs of indepentantly passively indoctrinating. They may help amplify the Reaper signal more but there is nothing to show that the implants, such as they are, passively indoctrinate (in the sense that, say, the derelict Reaper does- there is no evidence that their mere existence creates indoc rays).
3. ....what? That's what we're talking about, I think we both know that.
4. We know that there are devices capable of indoctrinating passively. No one in the thread is arguing that.
5. We already established that Reaper ground forces can become an antenna for indoctrination, at least in the case of organics.


...

Do you understand now? There is nothing in game that states that all Reaper-based tech is capable of passively indoctrinating other organics in their near vicinity. That there is Reaper-based tech that can passively indoctrinate in no way, shape, or form states or points to the idea that all Reaper-based tech does passively indoctrinate others in the area.

You cannot prove that it does, either, because we run into Reaper-based tech, or spin-offs (as the Collector ship may be considered) that do not show signs of passive enviornemental indoctrination. You can show what proof of devices that can; they are not undeniable proof that all can.

Modifié par Valentia X, 14 mai 2012 - 06:39 .

[Elyiia]

balance5050 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Seriously, I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're actually not understanding this. The orb is what caused the indoctrinated agents who then used the dragon's teeth. This is not hard.

1.There is no orb...Just the object that is simular to what the geth were worshiping in Faros.
2. I already movedon from Dragon teeth indoctrianting.
3. Husk can indoctrinated as well....And they are found on dragons teeth.

1) That is the orb, it says so right in the passage you linked.
2) Good, because there's no evidence they do.
3) It specifically says that Husks can give off the signal, however this is not what actually indoctrinates. The nanites are what indoctrinate. The husks can allow the Reapers to amplify the commands to the nanites. Otherwise every single front line unit would be indoctrinated. Furthermore Shepard's contact with husks is literally a few seconds before he explodes them.

2) they do because the residents of Eden prime commented on how they make noise.

3) And where do the nanites go when the husks "explode"? All over Shep and into the air.

They make noise, so that's evidence they indoctrinate by being there. No wonder IT is everywhere if that's what you consider proof.

All over the ground as I pick them off from a distance.

You do remember what Vigil said correct? Pretty much what it said is what I said.

TIM made Cerberus his own.

How the hell do you go from "There's a splinter group in each cycle" to "Saren created Cerberus" please explain this logic.

Modifié par Elyiia, 14 mai 2012 - 06:40 .

[dreman9999]

Elyiia wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Seriously, I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're actually not understanding this. The orb is what caused the indoctrinated agents who then used the dragon's teeth. This is not hard.

1.There is no orb...Just the object that is simular to what the geth were worshiping in Faros.
2. I already movedon from Dragon teeth indoctrianting.
3. Husk can indoctrinated as well....And they are found on dragons teeth.

1) That is the orb, it says so right in the passage you linked.
2) Good, because there's no evidence they do.
3) It specifically says that Husks can give off the signal, however this is not what actually indoctrinates. The nanites are what indoctrinate. The husks can allow the Reapers to amplify the commands to the nanites. Otherwise every single front line unit would be indoctrinated. Furthermore Shepard's contact with husks is literally a few seconds before he explodes them.

1. http://www.youtube.c...qViKzHzI#t=243s
3.The nanites are commanded by QEC.

From ME:retribution


“The Collectors implanted their victims with cybernetic Reaper technology. This allows the Reapers to communicate with and eventually dominate the organic host, even from across the galaxy.”The tube in Grayson’s throat began to pulse as some type of viscous fluid was siphoned down into his stomach.“Their technology is incredible,” the Illusive Man continued. “Are you familiar with quantum entanglement? No, probably not. It’s a complex field of study.“Basically, there are particles in the universe that share certain complementary properties. If one has apositive charge, the other has a negative charge. Reverse the charge on one particle, and the other also
(Page 45). 
reverses instantly, even if the particles are thousands of light-years apart.“Humanity explored the phenomenon throughout the twenty-first century, but the cost of identifyingand creating the particles was astronomical. In the end, the field was abandoned as impractical.“But the Reaper technology we recovered from the Collectors is far more advanced. They’vecombined entangled particles with self-replicating nanotechnology, allowing them to infect, transform, anddominate organic hosts even while they’re trapped in dark space.”
(Page 46). 

The waves are something different....

Modifié par dreman9999, 14 mai 2012 - 06:42 .

[BigGuy28]

It doesn't have to make sense! Indoctrination!

[Elyiia]

dreman9999 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Seriously, I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're actually not understanding this. The orb is what caused the indoctrinated agents who then used the dragon's teeth. This is not hard.

1.There is no orb...Just the object that is simular to what the geth were worshiping in Faros.
2. I already movedon from Dragon teeth indoctrianting.
3. Husk can indoctrinated as well....And they are found on dragons teeth.

1) That is the orb, it says so right in the passage you linked.
2) Good, because there's no evidence they do.
3) It specifically says that Husks can give off the signal, however this is not what actually indoctrinates. The nanites are what indoctrinate. The husks can allow the Reapers to amplify the commands to the nanites. Otherwise every single front line unit would be indoctrinated. Furthermore Shepard's contact with husks is literally a few seconds before he explodes them.

1. http://www.youtube.c...qViKzHzI#t=243s
3.The nanites are commanded by QEC.

From ME:retribution

The waves are something different....

So we're back on the Dragon's teeth. I love this circular arguing. You know there are husks and there are dragon's teeth. That is all you know. I could claim that cyborg Trexes came in and put them on the dragon's teeth. You can't prove they didn't.

So kindly show how I am wrong and show what the waves do.

[balance5050]

BigGuy28 wrote...

It doesn't have to make sense! Indoctrination!

 

[BigGuy28]

balance5050 wrote...

BigGuy28 wrote...

It doesn't have to make sense! Indoctrination!

 

Indoctrination!

[balance5050]

Elyiia wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Seriously, I'm not sure if you're trolling or if you're actually not understanding this. The orb is what caused the indoctrinated agents who then used the dragon's teeth. This is not hard.

1.There is no orb...Just the object that is simular to what the geth were worshiping in Faros.
2. I already movedon from Dragon teeth indoctrianting.
3. Husk can indoctrinated as well....And they are found on dragons teeth.

1) That is the orb, it says so right in the passage you linked.
2) Good, because there's no evidence they do.
3) It specifically says that Husks can give off the signal, however this is not what actually indoctrinates. The nanites are what indoctrinate. The husks can allow the Reapers to amplify the commands to the nanites. Otherwise every single front line unit would be indoctrinated. Furthermore Shepard's contact with husks is literally a few seconds before he explodes them.

1. http://www.youtube.c...qViKzHzI#t=243s
3.The nanites are commanded by QEC.

From ME:retribution

The waves are something different....

So we're back on the Dragon's teeth. I love this circular arguing. You know there are husks and there are dragon's teeth. That is all you know. I could claim that cyborg Trexes came in and put them on the dragon's teeth. You can't prove they didn't.

So kindly show how I am wrong and show what the waves do.

The thing is he keeps showing you the evidence and you can't even seem to accept the possibility when it says right in the Codex NO ONE fully understands indoctriation or how it works. 

Modifié par balance5050, 14 mai 2012 - 06:46 .

[FellishBeast]

If this post is supposed to disprove IT, it misses the point. IT doesn't claim Shep is indoctrinated.

Edit: Also, Arrival definitely happens even if you don't play the DLC. It's the whole reason Shepard is on earth at the beginning of ME3.

Modifié par FellishBeast, 14 mai 2012 - 06:49 .

[Elyiia]

balance5050 wrote...


The thing is he keeps showing you the evidence and you can't even seem to accept the possibility when it says right in the Codex NO ONE fully understands indoctriation or how it works. 

Evidence? All the "evidence" he's shown is that one type of Reaper device indoctrinates by being there and is using that as "evidence" that all Reaper devices indoctrinate by being. He's also claiming the Collector base indoctrinates when organics are not even supposed to reach it. Again, tell me how there's even a resistance on Earth if husks and killing husks causing indoctrination.

[balance5050]

Elyiia wrote...

balance5050 wrote...


The thing is he keeps showing you the evidence and you can't even seem to accept the possibility when it says right in the Codex NO ONE fully understands indoctriation or how it works. 

Evidence? All the "evidence" he's shown is that one type of Reaper device indoctrinates by being there and is using that as "evidence" that all Reaper devices indoctrinate by being. He's also claiming the Collector base indoctrinates when organics are not even supposed to reach it. Again, tell me how there's even a resistance on Earth if husks and killing husks causing indoctrination.

This will sound ridiculous to you probably, but even Shepard would assume that all reaper tech indoctrinates.