461 réponses à ce sujet

[balance5050]

EsterCloat wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Tom Lehrer wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

Sorry The Arrival is canon for everyone that played it, you don't get to say what's "canon" and what isn't.

We had this same argument last night *facepalm* 

It is only canon in games were it was done. There and many, many Shepards that did not do Arrival and Hackett sent someone else to do it.

This means it cannot be used as a valid argument for IT because not every Shepard did it.

Hey as long as it's canon for me the theory works....

A personal belief does not constitute a real world fact.

Correct, just like all this speculation is based on our "belief" of what happened, no facts either way.

[BatmanTurian]

Zuka999 wrote...

Harbinger can assume direct control of collectors from 60,000 light years away. It doesn't even matter how close you are, Harbinger literally says "/your mind will be mine/" at the end of Arrival.

This is true. The Reapers use QEC (Quantum Entanglement Communication) such as what Shepard uses to speak to TIM, Anderson, and Hackett. So they can technically indoctrinate at any distance once a link is established.

[EsterCloat]

HellbirdIV wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

A personal belief does not constitute a real world fact.

I'm now using this quote to justify my belief in the Indoctrination Theory.

Whatever floats your boat. The fact you took it out of context isnt all that surprising.

[111987]

Zuka999 wrote...

Harbinger can assume direct control of collectors from 60,000 light years away. It doesn't even matter how close you are, Harbinger literally says "/your mind will be mine/" at the end of Arrival.

He controls them through implants. Your point is invalid. Indoctrination cannot be projected anywhere. Otherwise the Reapers could just control everyone.

[BatmanTurian]

Kaelef wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

What do you think things will look like here when IT turns out not to be canon in a couple of months? Will it be awesome, or just gruesome?

I'm picturing massive bloodshed.

Awesome bloodshed.

What will it look like if it turns out to be canon?

Does it really matter, except to sadistic people who enjoy schadenfruede?

I don't enjoy schadenfruede.  I freakin' adore schadenfruede!!

Then you'll enjoy the forum on that day either way, because whether I.T. is true or not, someone or some group will be pissed off, so I think you have all your bases covered there.

I'm willing to place bets on it being IT adherents who will be unhappy. 

I think you'd lose that bet. Most of them just want a good ending, even if it isn't I.T.

[Kaelef]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

Harbinger can assume direct control of collectors from 60,000 light years away. It doesn't even matter how close you are, Harbinger literally says "/your mind will be mine/" at the end of Arrival.

This is true. The Reapers use QEC (Quantum Entanglement Communication) such as what Shepard uses to speak to TIM, Anderson, and Hackett. So they can technically indoctrinate at any distance once a link is established.

So there's no reason the whole galaxy shouldn't already be indoctrinated!

[savionen]

I really doubt the IT theory is actually true, but there's enough there that Bioware could run with it if they desired.

Modifié par savionen, 13 mai 2012 - 09:39 .

[Kaelef]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

What do you think things will look like here when IT turns out not to be canon in a couple of months? Will it be awesome, or just gruesome?

I'm picturing massive bloodshed.

Awesome bloodshed.

What will it look like if it turns out to be canon?

Does it really matter, except to sadistic people who enjoy schadenfruede?

I don't enjoy schadenfruede.  I freakin' adore schadenfruede!!

Then you'll enjoy the forum on that day either way, because whether I.T. is true or not, someone or some group will be pissed off, so I think you have all your bases covered there.

I'm willing to place bets on it being IT adherents who will be unhappy. 

I think you'd lose that bet. Most of them just want a good ending, even if it isn't I.T.

That's not the way they're behaving, if true. 

[jijeebo]

Kaelef wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

What do you think things will look like here when IT turns out not to be canon in a couple of months? Will it be awesome, or just gruesome?

I'm picturing massive bloodshed.

Awesome bloodshed.

The irony being that IT is centered around the red ending being the correct one.

THAT'S JUST ONE OF THE MANY HINTS IN THE STORY ABOUT THE COMING BLOODSHED!!

... My theory sense is tingling.

[BatmanTurian]

Kaelef wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

Harbinger can assume direct control of collectors from 60,000 light years away. It doesn't even matter how close you are, Harbinger literally says "/your mind will be mine/" at the end of Arrival.

This is true. The Reapers use QEC (Quantum Entanglement Communication) such as what Shepard uses to speak to TIM, Anderson, and Hackett. So they can technically indoctrinate at any distance once a link is established.

So there's no reason the whole galaxy shouldn't already be indoctrinated!

Except for the fact that I said there has to be a link established. Implants, a device, whatever. If there is no link, they cannot communicate with the subject at a distance.

[Sisterofshane]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

Harbinger can assume direct control of collectors from 60,000 light years away. It doesn't even matter how close you are, Harbinger literally says "/your mind will be mine/" at the end of Arrival.

This is true. The Reapers use QEC (Quantum Entanglement Communication) such as what Shepard uses to speak to TIM, Anderson, and Hackett. So they can technically indoctrinate at any distance once a link is established.

This backs up my theory that you are not subject to indoctrination until the Reapers choose to indoctrinate you.

Reaper Devices such as Object Rho make it so that they can indoctrinate anyone that is not within their own physical presence, by amplifying their signals from any point in the galaxy.

[Kaelef]

savionen wrote...

I really doubt the IT theory is actually true, but there's enough there that Bioware could run with it if they desired.

Totally agree with that.  It's just that it'd be a horrible way to go, and there are countless other ways to resolve the issues with the ending without resorting to IT. 

[Zombie Inc 91]

As mentioned there is the unknown origin of Shepard's implants. Implanted by an orginisation investigating reaper tech, arguably not fully understanding it's danger and using technology not seen anywhere else in the galaxy before or since. Does that mean Shepard has reaper guts. No. Does it make it a reasonable possiblity. I'd say so.

There is also the reaper IFF on the Normandy. Taking into account the supposed flight times and such, it's there for days, maybe longer before going to the collector base. It may also still be on board.

And on that time note, I would argue many of those exposure times would be longer. If feel you've put up game play time in contact with reaper stuff. But from a stroy perspective, most of these things would likely be longer. How long would it take 3 people to fight through a dead reaper crawling with things trying to kill you "in real life". What's shown likely implies more.

I don't mean to sound fanatically devoted here. I like IT, but if it turns out to be wrong, it turns out to be wrong. Just felt there was a bit missing in OP; whether it makes a difference or not is another thing all together.

[HellbirdIV]

EsterCloat wrote...

HellbirdIV wrote...

EsterCloat wrote...

A personal belief does not constitute a real world fact.

I'm now using this quote to justify my belief in the Indoctrination Theory.

Whatever floats your boat. The fact you took it out of context isnt all that surprising.

You're pretty bad at this.

Personal belief does not constitute facts - yet you assume that your beliefs about indoctrination are 100% accurate.

Then you make personal attacks on anyone who disagrees with you.

You should probably just leave and not read the BSN forums for a few hours, 'cause you're taking this thread way too seriously and personally.

[BatmanTurian]

Kaelef wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

What do you think things will look like here when IT turns out not to be canon in a couple of months? Will it be awesome, or just gruesome?

I'm picturing massive bloodshed.

Awesome bloodshed.

What will it look like if it turns out to be canon?

Does it really matter, except to sadistic people who enjoy schadenfruede?

I don't enjoy schadenfruede.  I freakin' adore schadenfruede!!

Then you'll enjoy the forum on that day either way, because whether I.T. is true or not, someone or some group will be pissed off, so I think you have all your bases covered there.

I'm willing to place bets on it being IT adherents who will be unhappy. 

I think you'd lose that bet. Most of them just want a good ending, even if it isn't I.T.

That's not the way they're behaving, if true. 

That is your perception. Perception is not always fact. But we could go back and forth on this all day. Let's just wait and see, shall we?

[Leafs43]

111987 wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

Harbinger can assume direct control of collectors from 60,000 light years away. It doesn't even matter how close you are, Harbinger literally says "/your mind will be mine/" at the end of Arrival.

He controls them through implants. Your point is invalid. Indoctrination cannot be projected anywhere. Otherwise the Reapers could just control everyone.

Shepard has implants.

The reapers controlled the geth without them installing reaper tech because the reapers simply hacked into the geth.  There is an entire mission showing this to you.



All Harbinger had to do was hack shpard's implants and harbinger has a way in.

[Kaelef]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Kaelef wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

Harbinger can assume direct control of collectors from 60,000 light years away. It doesn't even matter how close you are, Harbinger literally says "/your mind will be mine/" at the end of Arrival.

This is true. The Reapers use QEC (Quantum Entanglement Communication) such as what Shepard uses to speak to TIM, Anderson, and Hackett. So they can technically indoctrinate at any distance once a link is established.

So there's no reason the whole galaxy shouldn't already be indoctrinated!

Except for the fact that I said there has to be a link established. Implants, a device, whatever. If there is no link, they cannot communicate with the subject at a distance.

But if it's that easy, all it takes is a few seed indoctrinees before you establish an exponential spread of the indoctrinated.

[Kaelef]

BatmanTurian wrote...

That is your perception. Perception is not always fact. But we could go back and forth on this all day. Let's just wait and see, shall we?

Wow.  If only.  Take a look at the number of pro-indoctrination threads started on BSN and tell me that most people are taking a wait-and-see attitude about IT.

[Zombie Inc 91]

Kaelef wrote...

savionen wrote...

I really doubt the IT theory is actually true, but there's enough there that Bioware could run with it if they desired.

Totally agree with that.  It's just that it'd be a horrible way to go, and there are countless other ways to resolve the issues with the ending without resorting to IT. 

I don't think it would be horrible. If done well.

The same goes for all the other ways they can fix it. Bioware might come up with something that would please everyone, everywhere, no matter what their original opinion was. But if they do it sloppily, it will still fail.

[savionen]

Kaelef wrote...

savionen wrote...

I really doubt the IT theory is actually true, but there's enough there that Bioware could run with it if they desired.

Totally agree with that.  It's just that it'd be a horrible way to go, and there are countless other ways to resolve the issues with the ending without resorting to IT. 

I'm starting to agree with that. If it were a week or two after release and they were like "HAH! Fooled you!" and unlocked the rest of the game, then it would have been great, but really IT needs way too much more of a continuation to be wrapped up properly in the EC.

[HellbirdIV]

Kaelef wrote...

But if it's that easy, all it takes is a few seed indoctrinees before you establish an exponential spread of the indoctrinated.

Exactly. That's kind of the big danger with Reaper indoctrination. It isn't as simple as "Stay away from the enormous, cosmically-evil black-as-night technological monstrosities and you'll be fine".

The Reapers, unfortunately for the galaxy, are not that blatant.

[BatmanTurian]

Sisterofshane wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

Harbinger can assume direct control of collectors from 60,000 light years away. It doesn't even matter how close you are, Harbinger literally says "/your mind will be mine/" at the end of Arrival.

This is true. The Reapers use QEC (Quantum Entanglement Communication) such as what Shepard uses to speak to TIM, Anderson, and Hackett. So they can technically indoctrinate at any distance once a link is established.

This backs up my theory that you are not subject to indoctrination until the Reapers choose to indoctrinate you.

Reaper Devices such as Object Rho make it so that they can indoctrinate anyone that is not within their own physical presence, by amplifying their signals from any point in the galaxy.

Agreed, though the " dead god still dreaming" derelict Reaper seems to passively indoctrinate as does the Baby Reaper in the Cerberus Base evidenced by Liara stating she " can feel it watching" her when you're scaling the platforms. But that could just be because they are aware of the presence of organics within their field of operation.

[111987]

Leafs43 wrote...

111987 wrote...

Zuka999 wrote...

Harbinger can assume direct control of collectors from 60,000 light years away. It doesn't even matter how close you are, Harbinger literally says "/your mind will be mine/" at the end of Arrival.

He controls them through implants. Your point is invalid. Indoctrination cannot be projected anywhere. Otherwise the Reapers could just control everyone.

Shepard has implants.

The reapers controlled the geth without them installing reaper tech because the reapers simply hacked into the geth.  There is an entire mission showing this to you.



All Harbinger had to do was hack shpard's implants and harbinger has a way in.

Shepard's implants are not Reaper implants...they are not self-replicating Reaper nanides...

Um the Geth uploaded the Reaper code...

No.

[BatmanTurian]

Kaelef wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

That is your perception. Perception is not always fact. But we could go back and forth on this all day. Let's just wait and see, shall we?

Wow.  If only.  Take a look at the number of pro-indoctrination threads started on BSN and tell me that most people are taking a wait-and-see attitude about IT.

Alright, well I'm taking a wait and see. I think that's sane and moderate.

[Kaelef]

Zombie Inc 91 wrote...


I don't think it would be horrible. If done well.

People keep throwing in that "if done well" clause, but, despite the ridiculous number of posts and videos on the subject, I've yet to see anyone actually provide an example of an IT ending "done well".  Do you have a link?