227 réponses à ce sujet

[Captain Noodle]

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

It's still art. And Mass Effect 3 is both art. And successful art. It doesn't matter what the fans say.

Soooooo, if the target audience of a product hates the product, that product is successful.

WHAT.  

WHAT BUSINESS STRATEGY IS THIS?

[GDK]

Taboo-XX wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

Again, art failing or not failing doesn't mean anything.

PS: Mass Effect 3 was a huge success, critically and financially. Your point it moot.

So you state previously that art can't fail but now it can?

Can you elucidate?

Nope. I'm saying even if what he says were to be true and somehow art can "fail," that still isn't the case here. 

You just told me you wouldn't elucidate by elucidating. Do you even know what you're doing anymore?

This is quite literally like someone screaming that they know how to fly as their plane dives and crashes into the ground. 

It's almost beautiful.

[From Tuchanka with Love]

Good isn't objective, cuzz.

[Taboo]

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

Again, art failing or not failing doesn't mean anything.

PS: Mass Effect 3 was a huge success, critically and financially. Your point it moot.

So you state previously that art can't fail but now it can?

Can you elucidate?

Nope. I'm saying even if what he says were to be true and somehow art can "fail," that still isn't the case here. 

You just told me you wouldn't elucidate by elucidating. Do you even know what you're doing anymore?

Building a bunch of strawman arguments is not how you win a debate. If this was standarized, you would've been disqualified, homie.

Deflection and personal attacks are a form of argument devolution.

You keep making things worse for yourself. Do you realize that people are just coming in here to watch you struggle now?

[Ryoten]

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

It's still art. And Mass Effect 3 is both art. And successful art. It doesn't matter what the fans say.

Who determins whether art is successful?  You?  Why i had no idea Vincent Van gogh had been raised from the dead as a 14 year old to tell me what successful art is and isnt.  People (the fans) determine the level of success.  We gave it the thumbs down.  Sorry to rain on your starry night mr. van gogh.

Modifié par Ryoten, 14 mai 2012 - 12:18 .

[From Tuchanka with Love]

GDK wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

Again, art failing or not failing doesn't mean anything.

PS: Mass Effect 3 was a huge success, critically and financially. Your point it moot.

So you state previously that art can't fail but now it can?

Can you elucidate?

Nope. I'm saying even if what he says were to be true and somehow art can "fail," that still isn't the case here. 

You just told me you wouldn't elucidate by elucidating. Do you even know what you're doing anymore?

This is quite literally like someone screaming that they know how to fly as their plane dives and crashes into the ground. 

It's almost beautiful.

So you think his strawmaning of everything I said makes sense? Well, of course you do. He's you man. 

[Erield]

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

Explain to me why he isn't. Not matching up with human morality is not a reason. So guess what? Genocide doesn't count. Genocide can be a necessary, especially looking in the eyes of a higher being who has much more at stake than a couple trillion individuals.

The Star Child said...
"The Created will always rebel against their Creators."
Synthetics will destroy all Organic life.  It is inevitable.  (Not exact quote, but the integrity of the meaning is intact.)
"The Reapers are my Solution."

In other words, the Created will rebel against their creators, Synthetic life will be the end of all Organic life, and so the Star Child creats a Synthetic life to manage his Cycle.  He is literally using the problem as his solution.  This has nothing to do with omniscience, this has nothing to do with religion, this even has nothing to do with morality.  

The failure of the Catalyst/Star Child has everything to do with him being retarded.

[From Tuchanka with Love]

Ryoten wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

It's still art. And Mass Effect 3 is both art. And successful art. It doesn't matter what the fans say.

Who determind whether art is successful?  You?  Why i had no idea Vincent Van gogh had been raised from the dead as a 14 year old to tell me what successful art is and isnt.  People (the fans) determine the level of success.  We gave it the thumbs down.  Sorry to rain on your parade mr. van gogh.

Bruh, you just proclaimed what made art successful. Mass Effect 3 fit the bill. Not that age is relavent, but I'm probably old enough to be your Grandfather.

Modifié par From Tuchanka with Love, 14 mai 2012 - 12:18 .

[Peranor]

Taboo-XX wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

Again, art failing or not failing doesn't mean anything. 

PS: Mass Effect 3 was a huge success, critically and financially. Your point it moot.

So you state previously that art can't fail but now it can?

Can you elucidate?

Nope. I'm saying even if what he says were to be true and somehow art can "fail," that still isn't the case here. 

You just told me you wouldn't elucidate by elucidating. Do you even know what you're doing anymore?

Building a bunch of strawman arguments is not how you win a debate. If this was standarized, you would've been disqualified, homie.

Deflection and personal attacks are a form of argument devolution.

You keep making things worse for yourself. Do you realize that people are just coming in here to watch you struggle now?

I just grabbed more popcorn :happy:

[NUM13ER]

VibrantYacht wrote...

Ryoten wrote...

You know, im going to yield one thing. ME3 was a huge success critically.......

No game i know has successfully created this much critical distain from its fans.

The Call of Duty series certainly has it's detractors (in the form of rabid Halo fans, rabid Battlefield fans, and those who are part of the whiplash that inevitably occurs when something becomes highly popular) but I agree. This is a large level of disdain, though I don't know which is getting hammered worse at the moment. By it's own fans? Probably Mass Effect.

It has been discussed a few times about the gap between mainstream critics and fans regarding the game. It is important to know that the backlash isn't from people who hate Mass Effect but actually from people who loved the series. For example Mass Effect 2 is considered the best entry in the trilogy for many. The first also has fans who proclaim it the best. Mass Effect 3 on the other hand isn't considered the greatest entry by fans, probably even among some who liked the ending. Yet its scores eclisped both its predecessors among gaming journalists. 

Modifié par NUM13ER, 14 mai 2012 - 12:19 .

[VibrantYacht]

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

VibrantYacht wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

It's still art. And Mass Effect 3 is both art. And successful art. It doesn't matter what the fans say.

You mean... the target audience? It doesn't matter what the target audience says?... Is that what was just said?

 It doesn't matter what the non-casuals say. They aren't the target audience anymore.

I accept the point that casual fans are now the target audience (that being said, can't you understand why the former diehard fans are angry?). You don't think there are casual fans that are angry? Are you a casual fan? I'd argue not, as you are currently on the forum of the video game developers website. Why does your opinion matter if you are a non-casual?

[Filby08]

anorling wrote...

I just grabbed more popcorn :happy:

Just boiled the kettle. This thread is amazing.

Modifié par Filby08, 14 mai 2012 - 12:20 .

[From Tuchanka with Love]

In a standardized debate, you're not supposed to reply to strawman arguments. For a guy that is so sure about his "mad skillz," you really aren't as smart as you think you are.

Modifié par From Tuchanka with Love, 14 mai 2012 - 12:22 .

[From Tuchanka with Love]

VibrantYacht wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

VibrantYacht wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

It's still art. And Mass Effect 3 is both art. And successful art. It doesn't matter what the fans say.

You mean... the target audience? It doesn't matter what the target audience says?... Is that what was just said?

 It doesn't matter what the non-casuals say. They aren't the target audience anymore.

I accept the point that casual fans are now the target audience (that being said, can't you understand why the former diehard fans are angry?). You don't think there are casual fans that are angry? Are you a casual fan? I'd argue not, as you are currently on the forum of the video game developers website. Why does your opinion matter if you are a non-casual?

Do I understand why the diehard fans are angry? They don't even understand why they're angry. There hasn't been ONE cohesive reason given. Everyone has their opinions and they're all different. No different than any other game.

[VibrantYacht]

NUM13ER wrote...

VibrantYacht wrote...

Ryoten wrote...

You know, im going to yield one thing. ME3 was a huge success critically.......

No game i know has successfully created this much critical distain from its fans.

The Call of Duty series certainly has it's detractors (in the form of rabid Halo fans, rabid Battlefield fans, and those who are part of the whiplash that inevitably occurs when something becomes highly popular) but I agree. This is a large level of disdain, though I don't know which is getting hammered worse at the moment. By it's own fans? Probably Mass Effect.

It has been discussed a few times about the gap between mainstream critics and fans regarding the game. It is important to know that the backlash isn't from people who hate Mass Effect but actually from people who loved the series. For example Mass Effect 2 is considered the best entry in the trilogy for many. The first also has fans who proclaim it the best. Mass Effect 3 on the other hand isn't considered the greatest entry by fans, probably even among some who liked the ending. Yet its scores eclisped both its predecessors among gaming journalists. 

Yeah, I probably worded something wrong in there. I agree with most of what your saying. However the last point (at least, according to Metacritic) is untrue. ME1 (my favorite) had the lowest score with 91, ME2 had 96, and ME3 had 93 (those are Xbox 360 scores, I'm not sure about the other platforms).

[Goaliebot]

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

I don't mind the principle of an AI controlling/managing the Reapers. But I want to talk to it. It want to learn more about it and the Reapers and why it is doing what it is doing. Where it came from. Unfortunately, Bioware was lazy (used the "Lots of speculation!" cop out) and had a completely one-note, scripted conversation with it. I want to be able to tell the Catalyst that its logic and "beliefs" are crap. There should have been some charm/intimidate options there.

First reply hit it out of the park. Thread over.

[Ryoten]

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

Ryoten wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

It's still art. And Mass Effect 3 is both art. And successful art. It doesn't matter what the fans say.

Who determind whether art is successful?  You?  Why i had no idea Vincent Van gogh had been raised from the dead as a 14 year old to tell me what successful art is and isnt.  People (the fans) determine the level of success.  We gave it the thumbs down.  Sorry to rain on your parade mr. van gogh.

Bruh, you just proclaimed what made art successful. Mass Effect 3 fit the bill. Not that age is relavent, but I'm probably old enough to be your Grandfather.

It did not fit the bill.  Quite to the contrary.  And if you are old enough to be my grandfather, then i believe you're senial because you're only seeing what you want to see.  I wish i could live that deluded. 

Modifié par Ryoten, 14 mai 2012 - 12:23 .

[Taboo]

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

In a standardized debate, you're not supposed to reply to strawman arguments. For a guy that is so sure about his "mad skillz.," you really aren't as smart as you think you are.

I never claimed to have any skills. I merely presented you with a counter argument and you proceeded to begin talking about how your left testicle could out-debate me.

You a victim of sophistry and you then proceed to present sophistry as as a form of self-entitlement.

Modifié par Taboo-XX, 14 mai 2012 - 12:23 .

[GDK]

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

Ryoten wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

It's still art. And Mass Effect 3 is both art. And successful art. It doesn't matter what the fans say.

Who determind whether art is successful?  You?  Why i had no idea Vincent Van gogh had been raised from the dead as a 14 year old to tell me what successful art is and isnt.  People (the fans) determine the level of success.  We gave it the thumbs down.  Sorry to rain on your parade mr. van gogh.

Bruh, you just proclaimed what made art successful. Mass Effect 3 fit the bill. Not that age is relavent, but I'm probably old enough to be your Grandfather.

I really don't think that we read the same comment. 

So you're saying ME3 fits the bill by saying it is sucessful with the fans?
...
Which is not only incorrect, but contradictory to something you said in this very string of quotes. 

...

And then just add a witty quip, and you've got a successful counter-comment right? I love the internet.

[arial]

OP: it posts like this that make us pro-enders look... unenlightened..

[From Tuchanka with Love]

"Only seeing what you want to see." Kinda like...the Indoctrination Theory?

[Ryoten]

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

GDK wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

Again, art failing or not failing doesn't mean anything.

PS: Mass Effect 3 was a huge success, critically and financially. Your point it moot.

So you state previously that art can't fail but now it can?

Can you elucidate?

Nope. I'm saying even if what he says were to be true and somehow art can "fail," that still isn't the case here. 

You just told me you wouldn't elucidate by elucidating. Do you even know what you're doing anymore?

This is quite literally like someone screaming that they know how to fly as their plane dives and crashes into the ground. 

It's almost beautiful.

So you think his strawmaning of everything I said makes sense? Well, of course you do. He's you man. 

Actually the plane crash was more of a analogy.  Not a strawman.

[Taboo]

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

"Only seeing what you want to see." Kinda like...the Indoctrination Theory?

Ladies and gentlemen, I present a case study of a victim of sophilism.

Please continue.

[Goaliebot]

OP, I don't blame you. I blame your parents and an education system that has clearly failed you.

I don't take issue with you liking the endings. But you have no idea how to debate, get along with others, or be civil.

[From Tuchanka with Love]

Taboo-XX wrote...

From Tuchanka with Love wrote...

In a standardized debate, you're not supposed to reply to strawman arguments. For a guy that is so sure about his "mad skillz.," you really aren't as smart as you think you are.

I never claimed to have any skills. I merely presented you with a counter argument and you proceeded to begin talking about how your left testicle could out-debate me.

You a victim of sophistry and you then proceed to present sophistry as as a form of self-entitlement.

LOL self-entittlement.Doesn't that take the proverbial cake.


Bro, neither you or, oh lets say... Miranda, "deserve" anything. You get what you get. Be happy you get what you get or move on like everyone else. Mass Effect is starting to develop a stigma like Star Wars and Star Trek. I don't want to be lumped in with a group like that which is why I beg for some sanity and objectivity.

Modifié par From Tuchanka with Love, 14 mai 2012 - 12:27 .