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[Massakkolia]

haroldhardluck wrote...

Ria wrote...
DA:O gave an impression of mid to late Middle Ages but that was only because Ferelden is such a backwater country. I love Ferelden to bits but it isn't a very good indication of the time period that DA draws inspiration from. Poor European countries and countryside in general looked a lot like Ferelden all the way till 18th, some even early 19th century.

There is nothing backwater about Ferelden. Orlesians thought of it as backward but that was simply cultural  bigotry. As the map of Denerim shows, it was a very large city. It takes a large economy to support a city that big.

Rich and poor countries in Europe and every where else looked like Ferelden until the Industrial Revolution happened. That event transformed what a rich country looked like. England acquired macadam roads, canals and railroads which greatly increased the size of cities as food could be quickly shipped to the cities from a much larger area around the city. Russia which surpressed the Industrial Revolution for as long as possible to benefit the landed aristocracy had few paved roads, canals and  railroads until the Crimea War in 1853 showed the military weakness of not having railroads. Despite being a major European power, Russia up to the begining of the 20th century looked much like it did in the Middle Ages.

Culturally Ferelden with its Landsmeet to elect kings most closely resembled Ango-Saxon England where the king was elected from among the royal family by the nobles. Anglo-Saxon England ended in 1066. But in its time, Anglo-Saxon England was a major power in western Europe. It was one of the few western European countries that successfully fought the Vikings.

Harold

I was primarily referring to architecture as the games reveal very little of the general infrastructure, economy or art of the period. (especially DA2 is very lacking in detail and what little there is doesn't seem very carefully planned to form a visually cohesive period)

If you've played both DAO and DA2 you should see my point. Kirkwall geographically is fairly close to Denerim and yet, architecturally, DA2 feels like a trip to another era few hundred years forward. In that sense, Ferelden gave the air of the Middle Ages and Kirkwall the air of the Renaissance. The industrial revolution did have a bigger impact on the urban culture than the Reneissance did but it's not like the largest cities looked exactly the same from the Middle Ages till the 18th century. 

When I referred to Ferelden as a backwater country, it was a general way to imply that Denerim, while fairly large, is clearly not a cultural hub of Thedas nor a center of innovations. (Though it might be argued that Ferelden is quite advanced politically speaking) Also Ferelden is a sparsely populated young country and it's diplomatic influence is weak. Hence my point that Ferelden is not a good example of the DA time period, while a commercial cosmopolitan center like Kirkwall is. I predict that Val Royeaux will be the best example of the level of civilization as the religious capital of the continent (well Tevinter excluded).

Modifié par Ria, 16 mai 2012 - 10:20 .

[Maria Caliban]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

What Time Period is The Dragon Age Series Based On?

1236 DR.

Also known as the 'Year of the the Struck Gong.'

[brushyourteeth]

Ria wrote...

haroldhardluck wrote...

Ria wrote...
DA:O gave an impression of mid to late Middle Ages but that was only because Ferelden is such a backwater country. I love Ferelden to bits but it isn't a very good indication of the time period that DA draws inspiration from. Poor European countries and countryside in general looked a lot like Ferelden all the way till 18th, some even early 19th century.

There is nothing backwater about Ferelden. Orlesians thought of it as backward but that was simply cultural  bigotry. As the map of Denerim shows, it was a very large city. It takes a large economy to support a city that big.

Rich and poor countries in Europe and every where else looked like Ferelden until the Industrial Revolution happened. That event transformed what a rich country looked like. England acquired macadam roads, canals and railroads which greatly increased the size of cities as food could be quickly shipped to the cities from a much larger area around the city. Russia which surpressed the Industrial Revolution for as long as possible to benefit the landed aristocracy had few paved roads, canals and  railroads until the Crimea War in 1853 showed the military weakness of not having railroads. Despite being a major European power, Russia up to the begining of the 20th century looked much like it did in the Middle Ages.

Culturally Ferelden with its Landsmeet to elect kings most closely resembled Ango-Saxon England where the king was elected from among the royal family by the nobles. Anglo-Saxon England ended in 1066. But in its time, Anglo-Saxon England was a major power in western Europe. It was one of the few western European countries that successfully fought the Vikings.

Harold

I was primarily referring to architecture as the games reveal very little of the general infrastructure, economy or art of the period. (especially DA2 is very lacking in detail and what little there is doesn't seem very carefully planned to form a visually cohesive period)

If you've played both DAO and DA2 you should see my point. Kirkwall geographically is fairly close to Denerim and yet, architecturally, DA2 feels like a trip to another era few hundred years forward. In that sense, Ferelden gave the air of the Middle Ages and Kirkwall the air of the Renaissance. The industrial revolution did have a bigger impact on the urban culture than the Reneissance did but it's not like the largest cities looked exactly the same from the Middle Ages till the 18th century. 

When I referred to Ferelden as a backwater country, it was a general way to imply that Denerim, while fairly large, is clearly not a cultural hub of Thedas nor a center of innovations. (Though it might be argued that Ferelden is quite advanced politically speaking) Also Ferelden is a sparsely populated young country and it's diplomatic influence is weak. Hence my point that Ferelden is not a good example of the DA time period, while a commercial cosmopolitan center like Kirkwall is. I predict that Val Royeaux will be the best example of the level of civilization as the religious capital of the continent (well Tevinter excluded).

Very well put!

[haroldhardluck]

Ria wrote...
I was primarily referring to architecture as the games reveal very little of the general infrastructure, economy or art of the period. (especially DA2 is very lacking in detail and what little there is doesn't seem very carefully planned to form a visually cohesive period)

If you've played both DAO and DA2 you should see my point. Kirkwall geographically is fairly close to Denerim and yet, architecturally, DA2 feels like a trip to another era few hundred years forward. In that sense, Ferelden gave the air of the Middle Ages and Kirkwall the air of the Renaissance. 

If you go to Europe large areas are architecturally unchnaged from medieval times. That is deliberate. Dresden was one of the most perfectly preserved medieval cities in modern times. When it was leveled in WW2 the Germans rebuilt it as exactly as it was as they could do. So the architectural difference between Denerim and Kirkwall could be due to cultural preservation.

When I referred to Ferelden as a backwater country, it was a general way to imply that Denerim, while fairly large, is clearly not a cultural hub of Thedas nor a center of innovations.

My impression was the Tevinter was the traditional cultural center of Thedas. This is very similar to the situation in medieval Europe when Latin and a classical education was the mark of a learned man. The Orlais/Ferelden relationship is based on the Norman/Saxon relationship in the real world. In our world the result was to bring French culture to England. The  Plantagenets were French. French was the official language of the English court. Eleanor of Aquitance was the mother of Richard the Lionheart. English culture in medieval times was a blend of Saxon and French culture. La Morte d'Arthur was written in French by an English knight for whom French was his native tongue. England was no cultural or political backwater. This would mean that Ferelden culture had large elements of Orlesian culture even if people such as Loghain ignored that fact. And it also would not be a cultural backwater.

What the Free March cities such as Kirkwall remind me of are the Italian city states such as Venice, Genoa, etc. during the Renaissance. During that period, those city states were major world powers. They were very rich due to their control of the spice trade from the Middle East.

So while Ferelden was not the cultural center of Theads, it was no backwater either. It was culturally part of the Orlesian sphere of influence.

Harold

[Massakkolia]

haroldhardluck wrote...

My impression was the Tevinter was the traditional cultural center of Thedas. This is very similar to the situation in medieval Europe when Latin and a classical education was the mark of a learned man. The Orlais/Ferelden relationship is based on the Norman/Saxon relationship in the real world. In our world the result was to bring French culture to England. The  Plantagenets were French. French was the official language of the English court. Eleanor of Aquitance was the mother of Richard the Lionheart. English culture in medieval times was a blend of Saxon and French culture. La Morte d'Arthur was written in French by an English knight for whom French was his native tongue. England was no cultural or political backwater. This would mean that Ferelden culture had large elements of Orlesian culture even if people such as Loghain ignored that fact. And it also would not be a cultural backwater.

What the Free March cities such as Kirkwall remind me of are the Italian city states such as Venice, Genoa, etc. during the Renaissance. During that period, those city states were major world powers. They were very rich due to their control of the spice trade from the Middle East.

So while Ferelden was not the cultural center of Theads, it was no backwater either. It was culturally part of the Orlesian sphere of influence.

Harold

We're arguing over semantics here. If it pleases you, I'll gladly admit that "backwater" was perhaps not the best choice of words. If any Fereldans felt insulted, I sincerely apologize. 

However, Ferelden's position of power is in no way comparable to that of England. Ferelden is a small country in terms of influence. That's why I argued that Kirkwall or Val Royeaux would better represent the peak of civilization within the domain of Andrastian faith.

As I've understood Tevinter has pretty much isolated itself from rest of Thedas, at least diplomatically. Orlais (and Val Royeaux at its core) is the religious center and thus the beacon of culture for the rest of the countries. Orlais holds religious and cultural influence over others. Tevinter has pretty much fallen from grace in the eyes of other nations.

In any case, the universe of DA is a patchwork of myriad influences, and anachronisms coexist happily side by side. There's no right or wrong here.

Modifié par Ria, 17 mai 2012 - 12:25 .

[haroldhardluck]

Ria wrote...
However, Ferelden's position of power is in no way comparable to that of England. Ferelden is a small country in terms of influence. That's why I argued that Kirkwall or Val Royeaux would better represent the peak of civilization within the domain of Andrastian faith.

I disagree that Ferelden's position of power is as weak as you believe. The evidence is they threw out the Orlesians. That makes their military might significant and a country that enemies of Orlais would like to cultivate and Orlais would rather be neutral than aligned with their enemies. A small but competent army can be far more influential than a large ineffectual army. That is why much smaller English armies defeated larger French armies at battles at Crecy, Poitier and Argincourt.

Orlais may be the center of the new culture and having the Chantry in Orlais gives the country some prestige. However the Chantry is clearly an independent power from the throne of Orlais so that actually adds little to Orlesian power and influence. Like the Pope during the Renaissance, the Divine has her own army and it is more than a token bodyguard.

Harold