303 réponses à ce sujet

[Thaa_solon]

"I don't know..."

[nightcobra]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

IT use the kid. The kid isn't an indoctrination attempt nor an illusion (script&art book). Thus. IT is false.

according to the art book, the kid represents all of earth's casualties to shepard. 
why would the catalyst use this particular form? the only possible answer, is to better manipulate shepard by representing itself as the symbol of everything shepard is trying to save.

[Erield]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

EVERY word they say is PR stuff.....even them stating that the endings won't change is PR stuff. And the IT would work within the curent endings just nicely without removing or replacing anything....what you're expecting is complete sameness and predictability. Yet BioWare said that anything they say regarding the IT would be spoilers so there must be something there to surprise us or they wouldn't mind spoilers now would they and anything unexpected at this point accoriding to you would fall within the realm of "new" and "changed" endings. As I said their remarks are nonsensical....it's a PR game wher their word can be read either way and people can stay somewhat calmer and a bit more quiet untill the EC is released.....it's called damage control, don't read too much into it.

Ultimately let's face it....the endings SUCKED so regardless of what they say expect heavy retcons.

SPOILER ALERT:  IT is not real.

Omaigawd, that'd be a total spoiler, right?  I mean, for real; if Bioware came out right now and said, "IT is wrong and non-canonical" it'd pretty much ruin the EC for you, right?  

Even if the EC manages to be amazing and awesome, you're expecting it to confirm IT.  Because of that expectation, anything they say about it would be a spoiler to you, and everyone who feels strongly about IT one way or the other. 

[nightcobra]

Erield wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

EVERY word they say is PR stuff.....even them stating that the endings won't change is PR stuff. And the IT would work within the curent endings just nicely without removing or replacing anything....what you're expecting is complete sameness and predictability. Yet BioWare said that anything they say regarding the IT would be spoilers so there must be something there to surprise us or they wouldn't mind spoilers now would they and anything unexpected at this point accoriding to you would fall within the realm of "new" and "changed" endings. As I said their remarks are nonsensical....it's a PR game wher their word can be read either way and people can stay somewhat calmer and a bit more quiet untill the EC is released.....it's called damage control, don't read too much into it.

Ultimately let's face it....the endings SUCKED so regardless of what they say expect heavy retcons.

SPOILER ALERT:  IT is not real.

Omaigawd, that'd be a total spoiler, right?  I mean, for real; if Bioware came out right now and said, "IT is wrong and non-canonical" it'd pretty much ruin the EC for you, right?  

Even if the EC manages to be amazing and awesome, you're expecting it to confirm IT.  Because of that expectation, anything they say about it would be a spoiler to you, and everyone who feels strongly about IT one way or the other. 

as for me, i'm expecting for it to make as much sense or more than the IT theory, regardless if they use it or not, as well as delivering on their previous promise of 16 wildly different endings.
anything less and it's pretty much goodbye.

i want them to succeed, i want this series to end with a bang rather than the wimper we currently got.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 14 mai 2012 - 12:00 .

[nightcobra]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Imperium Alpha wrote...

IT use the kid. The kid isn't an indoctrination attempt nor an illusion (script&art book). Thus. IT is false.

according to the art book, the kid represents all of earth's casualties to shepard. 
why would the catalyst use this particular form? the only possible answer, is to better manipulate shepard by representing itself as the symbol of everything shepard is trying to save.

He took that appearance because we don't know as it is not explain. But there as been tons of Sci-Fi VI/AI using a known appearance by the user to talk and be more friendly. Doesn't give IT any credibility except wild fan speculation and to quote my good friend...

Are we allowing wild fan speculation into evidence now. How can I defend myself againts that kind of testimony.


The script alone would have talk about Indoctrination attempt. It doesn't.

how efficient would an indocrination attempt narrative-wise be if you saw it coming?

edit: don't try to make me as if i'm trying to force feed IT to you. it's...unbecoming.

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 14 mai 2012 - 12:07 .

[Darth_Trethon]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

IT use the kid. The kid isn't an indoctrination attempt nor an illusion (script&art book). Thus. IT is false.

lolwut? So what is the glowy seethrough thing? Smoke? Light? Casper? What's that about not an illusion? It's clearly not real that's a given absolute. And how do you know it's not as part of the IT? What does the artbook actually say? Here's how the kid was drawn? How does that transpalte into "it's not a hallucination"?

[jijeebo]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...


Any content that works within the current endings isn't classed as new to me. If an addition changes something from the current endings and substitutes in something new then that ending has been changed... And depending on the severity of the change it would be a NEW ending, IT is such a change.

The epilogues are an unknown because what they entail hasn't been specified but I'd guess it's just stuff that was previous headcanon and doesn't actually change anything.


And that thread is just PR stuff, convince the fans you're listening and all that.

it wouldn't be, for it to work you can just expand from when me3 ended, not changing anything to the current endings but giving a new perspective of what just happened.
on technical terms no ending would have to be changed, just your perspective on them.

Well my "perspective" on the Control ending is that I used that option to end the reaper threat.

Chuck in IT theory and that canonically is no longer the case, I become indoctrinated and God knows what happens to me...


Just because people *think* that IT was Biowares plan, doesn't mean that its implementation into the game is not a new ending, especially considering 95% of people who played it probably aren't aware of it.

the whole point of indocrination is that you can't see it happening to you.
i believe in IT though in believe in it as a theory that currently makes more sense than the given product.

if and IF IT is true then i also think there should be a final chance at breaking free from indocrination for people who picked control or synthesis to stop the reapers before you lose yourself (ala benezia)

See I take issue with the reality of the endings being so subtle that most people will miss them... Essentially making EC an unexpected retcon of their games if they chose Control or Synthesis.

Oddly enough I don't really see any more sense in the IT than the endings... Which is saying something.

I think ultimately this is a "agree to disagree" scenario... Because it all comes down to our expectations from EC, and whether or not you believe IT is a HUGE influence on those expectations.


If they do go indoc though, I agree that I'd at least like the possibility of ending the threat with Control and Synthesis... Even though it wouldn't involve Controlling or Synthesising, which imo would still suck but is better than a 10 minute Critical-Mission-Failure.

[nightcobra]

jijeebo wrote...

See I take issue with the reality of the endings being so subtle that most people will miss them... Essentially making EC an unexpected retcon of their games if they chose Control or Synthesis.

Oddly enough I don't really see any more sense in the IT than the endings... Which is saying something.

I think ultimately this is a "agree to disagree" scenario... Because it all comes down to our expectations from EC, and whether or not you believe IT is a HUGE influence on those expectations.


If they do go indoc though, I agree that I'd at least like the possibility of ending the threat with Control and Synthesis... Even though it wouldn't involve Controlling or Synthesising, which imo would still suck but is better than a 10 minute Critical-Mission-Failure.

i can respect that, really all i want is to ME3's ending to make sense and more importantly, to be good.
to me personally IT is currently the one proposition that makes sense, at least to me.

[Darth_Trethon]

Erield wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

EVERY word they say is PR stuff.....even them stating that the endings won't change is PR stuff. And the IT would work within the curent endings just nicely without removing or replacing anything....what you're expecting is complete sameness and predictability. Yet BioWare said that anything they say regarding the IT would be spoilers so there must be something there to surprise us or they wouldn't mind spoilers now would they and anything unexpected at this point accoriding to you would fall within the realm of "new" and "changed" endings. As I said their remarks are nonsensical....it's a PR game wher their word can be read either way and people can stay somewhat calmer and a bit more quiet untill the EC is released.....it's called damage control, don't read too much into it.

Ultimately let's face it....the endings SUCKED so regardless of what they say expect heavy retcons.

SPOILER ALERT:  IT is not real.

Omaigawd, that'd be a total spoiler, right?  I mean, for real; if Bioware came out right now and said, "IT is wrong and non-canonical" it'd pretty much ruin the EC for you, right?  

Even if the EC manages to be amazing and awesome, you're expecting it to confirm IT.  Because of that expectation, anything they say about it would be a spoiler to you, and everyone who feels strongly about IT one way or the other. 

/facepalm

They are making the EC because over 90% of their fanbase is angry and about to drop them like a rock. They are trying to CHANGE how we feel about it to regain so of their fans, stop the bad press and prevent more copies from being returned. If the ending stayed exactly as is the EC would be nothing but retarded....I guarantee you there is no explanation anyone would tolerate to explain why the Normandy tailed it and everyone just up and deserts. And despites all the extreme evidence that not only BioWare MEANT and PLANNED the IT the li9kes of you are still in denial.....cause indoctrination sucks. But NOTHING makes sense....Shepard just argued against TIM how dangerous Control is right After TIM CONTROLLED Shepard to make him shoot Anderson....yet when the reaper kid said Shepard actually CAN controll them because they don't controll him he Shepard just acceppts it. Are you THAT far in denial....TIM, a tiny little puppet of the reaperscould control Shepard are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that should be taken at face value.

All the evidence is right there in front of your eyes....te file names, the development plans, the completely UNEXPLAINABLE nonsense and you STILL deny it?

I understand you may hate the IT but I guarantee you that trying to explain the schitzophrenic mess that was the ending by any other means would be a disaster.

[jijeebo]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

jijeebo wrote...

See I take issue with the reality of the endings being so subtle that most people will miss them... Essentially making EC an unexpected retcon of their games if they chose Control or Synthesis.

Oddly enough I don't really see any more sense in the IT than the endings... Which is saying something.

I think ultimately this is a "agree to disagree" scenario... Because it all comes down to our expectations from EC, and whether or not you believe IT is a HUGE influence on those expectations.


If they do go indoc though, I agree that I'd at least like the possibility of ending the threat with Control and Synthesis... Even though it wouldn't involve Controlling or Synthesising, which imo would still suck but is better than a 10 minute Critical-Mission-Failure.

i can respect that, really all i want is to ME3's ending to make sense and more importantly, to be good.
to me personally IT is currently the one proposition that makes sense, at least to me.

That's something we can definitely agree on.


The thing is that throughout all these IT debates people, myself included, often forget that at the end of the day we're all fighting for the same ultimate goal... Better endings for ME3!! :wizard:

[DJBare]

You should be aware those plants are used in Shepard's nightmare's, they difficult to recognize because the nightmare scenes are colorized.

[Darth_Trethon]

DJBare wrote...

You should be aware those plants are used in Shepard's nightmare's, they difficult to recognize because the nightmare scenes are colorized.

The dream plants look very different....the ones in the OP do not appear in the actual dreams.....pictures have been posted a few pages back...nothing is green in the actual dreams.

Besides the file clearly states "End003_Planet".....and behold the plants are there.

[Silhouett3]

I just don't understand why a lot of people come to IT threads only to say "Lolz. IT is false. Let us wait the EC" and make no coherent contribution whatsoever.

Does IT hurt people?

[Wowky]

Colour me intrigued.

[Peranor]

Silhouett3 wrote...

I just don't understand why a lot of people come to IT threads only to say "Lolz. IT is false. Let us wait the EC" and make no coherent contribution whatsoever.

Does IT hurt people?

I get that feeling yes
Some people seems to be extremely butthurt by the mere existence if the indoctrination theory.


If you don't like it then don't visit the threads about it and let people have fun and speculate.
At least do yourself a favor and don't help bump the threads you don't like by posting stuff like "can you shut up about IT please" 

Modifié par anorling, 14 mai 2012 - 12:38 .

[comrade gando]

lol you can put proof up right in their faces and they're put their fingers in their ears close their eyes and go LALALALALA IT IS DEAD LALALALALA lol

[Candidate 88766]

They're a re-used asset.

They're used as foliage during the dream sequences, and then again to show jungle on the planet the Normandy crashed on.

They're presumably flagged as 'dream plants' because the dream sequences were likely created before the ending (it seems the ending was one of the last things they finished).

Nothing more than that.

[Soultaker08]

Just watched 2 Dreamsequences again on Youtube in High Quality, could cleary see them in Sequence 1,

this is no proof, they are actually used in at least 1 dream sequence.

[Uber Rod]

dunre646 wrote...

The Invisible Commando wrote...

dunre646 wrote...

The Invisible Commando wrote...

IT is like any other conspiracy theory. To a believer, everything and anything is evidence to support it.

Remember this the next time someone says an alien kidnapped and probed them last night then the government covered it all up and you laugh at them.

so conspiracy theories are like religions then?

what makes you so sure the IT isn't true?

Everything can be beieved or not. If you must grasp at every straw for evidence, then your proof is weak. Some developer labeled a plant 'dreamplant' and now thats a knockout punch? No.

not really the answer i was looking for. there is enough evidence supporting IT that it merits to be addressed. what is it that makes you believe it can't be true?

Lack of faith in Bioware to actually pull off something as cool as IT. Not saying that IT lacks merit. I'm saying putting that much faith in Bioware is a waste of time.

IT is false simply because Bioware won't be bothered to follow through with it. We will get some half assed "clarification" with the extended cut DLC and that's it. This leaves us with really good clues pointing towards IT that won't go anywhere. 

IT is really cool and there is tons of proof for it in my opinion. But at the end of the day we will just get the ending we got with some extra explanations and that, my friends, is that. To keep trying to prove a theory that Bioware will never implement (even though it's all right there in front of them) is just a waste of time. Accept that Bioware/EA utterly failed with the ending and move on to a better game.

[Uber Rod]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Erield wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

EVERY word they say is PR stuff.....even them stating that the endings won't change is PR stuff. And the IT would work within the curent endings just nicely without removing or replacing anything....what you're expecting is complete sameness and predictability. Yet BioWare said that anything they say regarding the IT would be spoilers so there must be something there to surprise us or they wouldn't mind spoilers now would they and anything unexpected at this point accoriding to you would fall within the realm of "new" and "changed" endings. As I said their remarks are nonsensical....it's a PR game wher their word can be read either way and people can stay somewhat calmer and a bit more quiet untill the EC is released.....it's called damage control, don't read too much into it.

Ultimately let's face it....the endings SUCKED so regardless of what they say expect heavy retcons.

SPOILER ALERT:  IT is not real.

Omaigawd, that'd be a total spoiler, right?  I mean, for real; if Bioware came out right now and said, "IT is wrong and non-canonical" it'd pretty much ruin the EC for you, right?  

Even if the EC manages to be amazing and awesome, you're expecting it to confirm IT.  Because of that expectation, anything they say about it would be a spoiler to you, and everyone who feels strongly about IT one way or the other. 

/facepalm

They are making the EC because over 90% of their fanbase is angry and about to drop them like a rock. They are trying to CHANGE how we feel about it to regain so of their fans, stop the bad press and prevent more copies from being returned. If the ending stayed exactly as is the EC would be nothing but retarded....I guarantee you there is no explanation anyone would tolerate to explain why the Normandy tailed it and everyone just up and deserts. And despites all the extreme evidence that not only BioWare MEANT and PLANNED the IT the li9kes of you are still in denial.....cause indoctrination sucks. But NOTHING makes sense....Shepard just argued against TIM how dangerous Control is right After TIM CONTROLLED Shepard to make him shoot Anderson....yet when the reaper kid said Shepard actually CAN controll them because they don't controll him he Shepard just acceppts it. Are you THAT far in denial....TIM, a tiny little puppet of the reaperscould control Shepard are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that should be taken at face value.

All the evidence is right there in front of your eyes....te file names, the development plans, the completely UNEXPLAINABLE nonsense and you STILL deny it?

I understand you may hate the IT but I guarantee you that trying to explain the schitzophrenic mess that was the ending by any other means would be a disaster.

Be prepared for retardedness then. I doubt Bioware will change anything except to give some extra explanation as to what happened after whatever colored explosion you chose. 

I have zero faith in Bioware to save the ending.

[Darth_Trethon]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

They're a re-used asset.

They're used as foliage during the dream sequences, and then again to show jungle on the planet the Normandy crashed on.

They're presumably flagged as 'dream plants' because the dream sequences were likely created before the ending (it seems the ending was one of the last things they finished).

Nothing more than that.

Riiiight because these two pictures totally have the same vegetation type and that must be why the file is named End003_Planet....





Not to mention this here must totally not be true either even though the file names clearly say what's going on....



Any other wild claims?

[comrade gando]

Uber Rod wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Erield wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

EVERY word they say is PR stuff.....even them stating that the endings won't change is PR stuff. And the IT would work within the curent endings just nicely without removing or replacing anything....what you're expecting is complete sameness and predictability. Yet BioWare said that anything they say regarding the IT would be spoilers so there must be something there to surprise us or they wouldn't mind spoilers now would they and anything unexpected at this point accoriding to you would fall within the realm of "new" and "changed" endings. As I said their remarks are nonsensical....it's a PR game wher their word can be read either way and people can stay somewhat calmer and a bit more quiet untill the EC is released.....it's called damage control, don't read too much into it.

Ultimately let's face it....the endings SUCKED so regardless of what they say expect heavy retcons.

SPOILER ALERT:  IT is not real.

Omaigawd, that'd be a total spoiler, right?  I mean, for real; if Bioware came out right now and said, "IT is wrong and non-canonical" it'd pretty much ruin the EC for you, right?  

Even if the EC manages to be amazing and awesome, you're expecting it to confirm IT.  Because of that expectation, anything they say about it would be a spoiler to you, and everyone who feels strongly about IT one way or the other. 

/facepalm

They are making the EC because over 90% of their fanbase is angry and about to drop them like a rock. They are trying to CHANGE how we feel about it to regain so of their fans, stop the bad press and prevent more copies from being returned. If the ending stayed exactly as is the EC would be nothing but retarded....I guarantee you there is no explanation anyone would tolerate to explain why the Normandy tailed it and everyone just up and deserts. And despites all the extreme evidence that not only BioWare MEANT and PLANNED the IT the li9kes of you are still in denial.....cause indoctrination sucks. But NOTHING makes sense....Shepard just argued against TIM how dangerous Control is right After TIM CONTROLLED Shepard to make him shoot Anderson....yet when the reaper kid said Shepard actually CAN controll them because they don't controll him he Shepard just acceppts it. Are you THAT far in denial....TIM, a tiny little puppet of the reaperscould control Shepard are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that should be taken at face value.

All the evidence is right there in front of your eyes....te file names, the development plans, the completely UNEXPLAINABLE nonsense and you STILL deny it?

I understand you may hate the IT but I guarantee you that trying to explain the schitzophrenic mess that was the ending by any other means would be a disaster.

Be prepared for retardedness then. I doubt Bioware will change anything except to give some extra explanation as to what happened after whatever colored explosion you chose. 

I have zero faith in Bioware to save the ending.

after all these are the same people who thought a 2 minute amateur photoshop job was a satisfactory way to reveal a major character. My faith in them has been a little...shaken if you will.

[DJBare]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

They're a re-used asset.

They're used as foliage during the dream sequences, and then again to show jungle on the planet the Normandy crashed on.

They're presumably flagged as 'dream plants' because the dream sequences were likely created before the ending (it seems the ending was one of the last things they finished).

Nothing more than that.

Riiiight because these two pictures totally have the same vegetation type and that must be why the file is named End003_Planet....





Not to mention this here must totally not be true either even though the file names clearly say what's going on....



Any other wild claims?

I support the notion of IT, but I'll say it again, the nightmare sequences are colorized, same plants with reduced saturation.

[Darth_Trethon]

DJBare wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

They're a re-used asset.

They're used as foliage during the dream sequences, and then again to show jungle on the planet the Normandy crashed on.

They're presumably flagged as 'dream plants' because the dream sequences were likely created before the ending (it seems the ending was one of the last things they finished).

Nothing more than that.

Riiiight because these two pictures totally have the same vegetation type and that must be why the file is named End003_Planet....





Not to mention this here must totally not be true either even though the file names clearly say what's going on....



Any other wild claims?

I support the notion of IT, but I'll say it again, the nightmare sequences are colorized, same plants with reduced saturation.

Have you actually looked at the two pictures? It's not a matter of color....they are completely different plants...they don't look even close to the same.....

I mean that genuinely, not trying to be a smartass or anything...I just...there's no similarity to speak of...