303 réponses à ce sujet

[Candidate 88766]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

They're a re-used asset.

They're used as foliage during the dream sequences, and then again to show jungle on the planet the Normandy crashed on.

They're presumably flagged as 'dream plants' because the dream sequences were likely created before the ending (it seems the ending was one of the last things they finished).

Nothing more than that.

Riiiight because these two pictures totally have the same vegetation type and that must be why the file is named End003_Planet....

The dream plants do appear in the dreams.



Pause at around 35 seconds for the best view. Both the top right plant and the spiky plant in the visible are clearly visible in the lower left of the screen of the video. Not to mention that the lower right plant in the image is all over the floor during the dream sequence. Very obvious at 20 seconds or so.

Not to mention this here must totally not be true either even though the file names clearly say what's going on....



Any other wild claims?

The indoctrination blur is when TIM is controlling you with Reaper tech. The blur is only on-screen when TIM is present. It never occurs at any other point, so I'm not sure why you think is evidence for the IT. As for why its titled 'Reaper indoc', the game itself tells you - TIM is controlling you through Reaper tech.


As for "wild claims", lets see you dismiss this:



"Commander Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat".

If IT is true, Shepard has not ended the Reaper threat.
The game tells you, in no uncertain terms, that Shepard has ended the Reaper threat.
Therefore, the IT is not the intended canon.


If you want to believe the IT, then there is evidence for it. I can't deny that. However, the game itself proves that it is not canon. Or at least, not the canon intended by Bioware.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 14 mai 2012 - 01:04 .

[comrade gando]

harbinger typed that up and put it there to ****** us off. worst. villain. ever.

[Darth_Trethon]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

The dream plants do appear in the dreams.



Pause at around 35 seconds for the best view. Both the top right plant and the spiky plant in the visible are clearly visible in the lower left of the screen of the video. Not to mention that the lower right plant in the image is all over the floor during the dream sequence. Very obvious at 20 seconds or so.

Not to mention this here must totally not be true either even though the file names clearly say what's going on....



Any other wild claims?

The indoctrination blur is when TIM is controlling you with Reaper tech. The blur is only on-screen when TIM is present. It never occurs at any other point, so I'm not sure why you think is evidence for the IT. As for why its titled 'Reaper indoc', the game itself tells you - TIM is controlling you through Reaper tech.


As for "wild claims", lets see you dismiss this:



"Commander Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat".

If IT is true, Shepard has not ended the Reaper threat.
The game tells you, in no uncertain terms, that Shepard has ended the Reaper threat.
Therefore, the IT is not the intended canon.


If you want to believe the IT, then there is evidence for it. I can't deny that. However, the game itself proves that it is not canon. Or at least, not the canon intended by Bioware.

But those aren't the same type of plants as the dream plant that's the matter of the discussion. Also in one of the NeverwinterNights games BioWare did oh so very long ago if you tried to attack the final villain in the game you would beat him and go into an endgame celebration and all seemed fine....the game would never once tell you that you failed but if you had a high enough score in intelligence you could break through the illusion and actually win the game....so yes BioWare have a precedent in this. The DLC box really means nothing.....stopping the reapers doesn't mean we actually saw the entire thing.

[Elyiia]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

But those aren't the same type of plants as the dream plant that's the matter of the discussion. Also in one of the NeverwinterNights games BioWare did oh so very long ago if you tried to attack the final villain in the game you would beat him and go into an endgame celebration and all seemed fine....the game would never once tell you that you failed but if you had a high enough score in intelligence you could break through the illusion and actually win the game....so yes BioWare have a precedent in this. The DLC box really means nothing.....stopping the reapers doesn't mean we actually saw the entire thing.

So the ending actually happened off screen? That's worse than not shipping an ending at all.

[Candidate 88766]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

The dream plants do appear in the dreams.



Pause at around 35 seconds for the best view. Both the top right plant and the spiky plant in the visible are clearly visible in the lower left of the screen of the video. Not to mention that the lower right plant in the image is all over the floor during the dream sequence. Very obvious at 20 seconds or so.

Not to mention this here must totally not be true either even though the file names clearly say what's going on....



Any other wild claims?

The indoctrination blur is when TIM is controlling you with Reaper tech. The blur is only on-screen when TIM is present. It never occurs at any other point, so I'm not sure why you think is evidence for the IT. As for why its titled 'Reaper indoc', the game itself tells you - TIM is controlling you through Reaper tech.


As for "wild claims", lets see you dismiss this:



"Commander Shepard has become a legend by ending the Reaper threat".

If IT is true, Shepard has not ended the Reaper threat.
The game tells you, in no uncertain terms, that Shepard has ended the Reaper threat.
Therefore, the IT is not the intended canon.


If you want to believe the IT, then there is evidence for it. I can't deny that. However, the game itself proves that it is not canon. Or at least, not the canon intended by Bioware.

But those aren't the same type of plants as the dream plant that's the matter of the discussion. Also in one of the NeverwinterNights games BioWare did oh so very long ago if you tried to attack the final villain in the game you would beat him and go into an endgame celebration and all seemed fine....the game would never once tell you that you failed but if you had a high enough score in intelligence you could break through the illusion and actually win the game....so yes BioWare have a precedent in this. The DLC box really means nothing.....stopping the reapers doesn't mean we actually saw the entire thing.

Firstly, watch the viedo. They are the same plants.

Secondly, Bioware has a much greater precedent for not doing this. Thats not proof that the IT is wrong, just like the fact that Baldur's Gate did something similar is not proof for the IT.

Thirdly, yes it does mean that we saw the entire thing. Look at what it says: 'Shepard has ended the Reaper threat'. Not 'Shepard later went on to end the Reaper threat' or 'someone other than Shepard went on to end the Reaper threat', but that in what we just saw and experienced Commander Shepard ended the Reaper threat. Focusing on the second sentence that encourages repeat playthroughs and the purchasing of DLC (I hate that the last words of this trilogy were 'downloadable content', but oh well) doesn't disprove the first sentence.


Look, I find the IT as interesting as the next guy, and there is some evidence for it so if you want to accept it as your headcanon, it does actually make sense. However, the proof is right there that it was not the interpretation Bioware intended. You can't simply choose to ignore evidence against it because you want it to be true.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 14 mai 2012 - 01:18 .

[Darth_Trethon]

Elyiia wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

But those aren't the same type of plants as the dream plant that's the matter of the discussion. Also in one of the NeverwinterNights games BioWare did oh so very long ago if you tried to attack the final villain in the game you would beat him and go into an endgame celebration and all seemed fine....the game would never once tell you that you failed but if you had a high enough score in intelligence you could break through the illusion and actually win the game....so yes BioWare have a precedent in this. The DLC box really means nothing.....stopping the reapers doesn't mean we actually saw the entire thing.

So the ending actually happened off screen? That's worse than not shipping an ending at all.

I think that as far as ME3 goes it just means they got caught with their pants down and didn't have time to finish development....that's what I think the EC is going to do.

[Candidate 88766]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

But those aren't the same type of plants as the dream plant that's the matter of the discussion. Also in one of the NeverwinterNights games BioWare did oh so very long ago if you tried to attack the final villain in the game you would beat him and go into an endgame celebration and all seemed fine....the game would never once tell you that you failed but if you had a high enough score in intelligence you could break through the illusion and actually win the game....so yes BioWare have a precedent in this. The DLC box really means nothing.....stopping the reapers doesn't mean we actually saw the entire thing.

So the ending actually happened off screen? That's worse than not shipping an ending at all.

I think that as far as ME3 goes it just means they got caught with their pants down and didn't have time to finish development....that's what I think the EC is going to do.

Firstly, why tell the player they've ended the Reaper threat if they haven't actually ended the Reaper threat?

Secondly, Bioware was given a large time extension with ME3 - it was orginally due out last November. EA needed ME3 to be a success after BF3 failed to do as well as predicted. Why would EA not grant Bioware another time extension?

Thirdly, if Bioware really didn't have time to finish the endings why did they spend time creating a 'fake' ending when they could've just made the 'real' ending during that time instead?

[Elite Midget]

Dream plants you say?

[Darth_Trethon]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Firstly, watch the viedo. They are the same plants.

Secondly, Bioware has a much greater precedent for not doing this. Thats not proof that the IT is wrong, just like the fact that Baldur's Gate did something similar is not proof for the IT.

Thirdly, yes it does mean that we saw the entire thing. Look at what it says: 'Shepard has ended the Reaper threat'. Not 'Shepard later went on to end the Reaper threat' or 'someone other than Shepard went on to end the Reaper threat', but that in what we just saw and experienced Commander Shepard ended the Reaper threat. 


Look, I find the IT as interesting as the next guy, and there is some evidence for it so if you want to accept it as your headcanon, it does actually make sense. However, the proof is right there that it was not the interpretation Bioware intended. You can't simply choose to ignore evidence against it because you want it to be true.

Not seeing the plants but whatever let's pretend they're there.

The fact the EC is being made is deffinite, absolute proof we HAVEN'T seen the whole ending.....IT or not....so the whole point of "but the lazy text box said so" is dead.....if we had seen the whole edning there wouldn't be an extended cut that is all ONLY about the ending.

The bottom line is this...they ARE aiming to change how we feel and trying to explain a turd floating in the beer mug is just not going to work.

Yes I know what they are saying but do NOT take those words at face value....they WILL retcon A LOT....they'll just pretend it's what they always meand and play it off like "what, you mean you guys didn't get that?....you all suck, I mean it was totally obvious".

[Pelle6666]

Hope.....

[Darth_Trethon]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Firstly, why tell the player they've ended the Reaper threat if they haven't actually ended the Reaper threat?

Secondly, Bioware was given a large time extension with ME3 - it was orginally due out last November. EA needed ME3 to be a success after BF3 failed to do as well as predicted. Why would EA not grant Bioware another time extension?

Thirdly, if Bioware really didn't have time to finish the endings why did they spend time creating a 'fake' ending when they could've just made the 'real' ending during that time instead?

Dude....are you SERIOUSLY still going on about a lazy textbox? Do you SERIOUSLY think they'd give you one that said "Ooops, we ran out of time so here's the incomplete game...wait for DLC"?

[Candidate 88766]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Firstly, watch the viedo. They are the same plants.

Secondly, Bioware has a much greater precedent for not doing this. Thats not proof that the IT is wrong, just like the fact that Baldur's Gate did something similar is not proof for the IT.

Thirdly, yes it does mean that we saw the entire thing. Look at what it says: 'Shepard has ended the Reaper threat'. Not 'Shepard later went on to end the Reaper threat' or 'someone other than Shepard went on to end the Reaper threat', but that in what we just saw and experienced Commander Shepard ended the Reaper threat. 


Look, I find the IT as interesting as the next guy, and there is some evidence for it so if you want to accept it as your headcanon, it does actually make sense. However, the proof is right there that it was not the interpretation Bioware intended. You can't simply choose to ignore evidence against it because you want it to be true.

Not seeing the plants but whatever let's pretend they're there.

Your brightness might be down then. Look in the left-hand corner at the time I suggested, and you'll see these plants clumped around the base of a tree. they are elsewhere in the video, but that was the most obvious.

The fact the EC is being made is deffinite, absolute proof we HAVEN'T seen the whole ending.....IT or not....so the whole point of "but the lazy text box said so" is dead.....if we had seen the whole edning there wouldn't be an extended cut that is all ONLY about the ending.

Wrong.

These are direct quotes from the blog entry, by Bioware, on what the EC entails:

The extended cut DLC will expand on the existing endings, but no further ending DLC is planned. 

extended scenes that provide additional context and deeper insight to the conclusion 

BioWare will expanding on the ending to Mass Effect 3 by creating additional cinematics and epilogue scenes to the existing ending sequences 

For them to expand on the endings, the endings must already exist.

The EC is actually direct proof that the endings to the ME trilogy are already present in the game, which is yet more proof that the IT is not the intended interpretation.

[WaffleVoyager]

Pelle6666 wrote...

Hope.....

Hope is irrelevant..

[Candidate 88766]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Firstly, why tell the player they've ended the Reaper threat if they haven't actually ended the Reaper threat?

Secondly, Bioware was given a large time extension with ME3 - it was orginally due out last November. EA needed ME3 to be a success after BF3 failed to do as well as predicted. Why would EA not grant Bioware another time extension?

Thirdly, if Bioware really didn't have time to finish the endings why did they spend time creating a 'fake' ending when they could've just made the 'real' ending during that time instead?

Dude....are you SERIOUSLY still going on about a lazy textbox? Do you SERIOUSLY think they'd give you one that said "Ooops, we ran out of time so here's the incomplete game...wait for DLC"?

Firstly, yes, I am still going on about because you haven't disproven it yet. Ignoring something is not disproving it.

Secondly, why give one at all unless its true? ME1 and ME2 didn't have a box saying "well done, you've won", so why would Bioware put one on the end of ME3 if it wasn't true?

Finally, I note that you didn't actually answer any of the questions. 

[Grimgaww]

Now i get it ...
4000+ EMS to have 3 options in my dream + knowing Shepard dreaming.
I wonder what i will get in reality.

Modifié par Grimgaww, 14 mai 2012 - 01:38 .

[Iwillbeback]

Must be fake, Bioware can't be this good.

[Erield]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

/facepalm

They are making the EC because over 90% of their fanbase is angry and about to drop them like a rock. They are trying to CHANGE how we feel about it to regain so of their fans, stop the bad press and prevent more copies from being returned. If the ending stayed exactly as is the EC would be nothing but retarded....I guarantee you there is no explanation anyone would tolerate to explain why the Normandy tailed it and everyone just up and deserts. And despites all the extreme evidence that not only BioWare MEANT and PLANNED the IT the li9kes of you are still in denial.....cause indoctrination sucks. But NOTHING makes sense....Shepard just argued against TIM how dangerous Control is right After TIM CONTROLLED Shepard to make him shoot Anderson....yet when the reaper kid said Shepard actually CAN controll them because they don't controll him he Shepard just acceppts it. Are you THAT far in denial....TIM, a tiny little puppet of the reaperscould control Shepard are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that should be taken at face value.

All the evidence is right there in front of your eyes....te file names, the development plans, the completely UNEXPLAINABLE nonsense and you STILL deny it?

I understand you may hate the IT but I guarantee you that trying to explain the schitzophrenic mess that was the ending by any other means would be a disaster.

You talk and yell at me saying that I'm in denial.  I'm pretty sure that you and all the other hardcore IT adherents are the ones in denial.  You refuse to admit that Bioware made a horrible botch of the ending, on such a grand scale that "disaster" scarcely begins to address the issue.  You are the one who was Indoctrinated by Bioware, before ME3 ever shipped; you refuse to see that they are human, and fallible, and prone to errors of judgement.  You fail to see that what we saw is, indeed, what we get--as terrible as that may be.  Face it; your good friend ME is dead, and Bioware killed him.

The EC isn't changing the endings.  Do you know why?  Because the ending will still go something like this: Shepard charges the Conduit beam, many people die.  Shepard and Anderson confront TIM in the Citadel.  Shepard interacts with Star Child.  Shepard makes his Final Choice.  End sequence plays.  Credits roll.  Stargazer epilogue post-credits rolls.  And you're back on the Normandy, having successfully defeated the Reapers.  That's the ending we currently have, and what we'll have after EC; all EC will do is add stuff like Joker sweeping down to pick up your crew-mates, Shepard messaging the fleet to use the Relays and retreat because they're about to explode, etc.

File names can be used as evidence, but are not facts.  The development plans specifically state that the scene in question was axed.  The completely unexplainable nonsense is easily explained if you accept that Bioware ****ed up.

I don't hate IT.  The very idea is intriguing as hell, and there's just enough there to give me seeds of doubt.  What I hate is when people refuse to see that they are grasping at circumstantial evidence (at best) and playing it off as clear-cut proof.

[Candidate 88766]

Erield wrote...

I don't hate IT.  The very idea is intriguing as hell, and there's just enough there to give me seeds of doubt.  What I hate is when people refuse to see that they are grasping at circumstantial evidence (at best) and playing it off as clear-cut proof.

This is pretty much my view as well.

I have no problem whatsoever with people that want the IT to be true.

I have no problem whatsoever with people who choose to believe that their story ended in the manner of the IT instead of the endings in the game.

I just find it remarkable that there are people who not only think that the IT is already true, but that there is absolute proof that it is already true.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 14 mai 2012 - 01:42 .

[Darth_Trethon]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Firstly, watch the viedo. They are the same plants.

Secondly, Bioware has a much greater precedent for not doing this. Thats not proof that the IT is wrong, just like the fact that Baldur's Gate did something similar is not proof for the IT.

Thirdly, yes it does mean that we saw the entire thing. Look at what it says: 'Shepard has ended the Reaper threat'. Not 'Shepard later went on to end the Reaper threat' or 'someone other than Shepard went on to end the Reaper threat', but that in what we just saw and experienced Commander Shepard ended the Reaper threat. 


Look, I find the IT as interesting as the next guy, and there is some evidence for it so if you want to accept it as your headcanon, it does actually make sense. However, the proof is right there that it was not the interpretation Bioware intended. You can't simply choose to ignore evidence against it because you want it to be true.

Not seeing the plants but whatever let's pretend they're there.

Your brightness might be down then. Look in the left-hand corner at the time I suggested, and you'll see these plants clumped around the base of a tree. they are elsewhere in the video, but that was the most obvious.

The fact the EC is being made is deffinite, absolute proof we HAVEN'T seen the whole ending.....IT or not....so the whole point of "but the lazy text box said so" is dead.....if we had seen the whole edning there wouldn't be an extended cut that is all ONLY about the ending.

Wrong.

These are direct quotes from the blog entry, by Bioware, on what the EC entails:

The extended cut DLC will expand on the existing endings, but no further ending DLC is planned. 

extended scenes that provide additional context and deeper insight to the conclusion 

BioWare will expanding on the ending to Mass Effect 3 by creating additional cinematics and epilogue scenes to the existing ending sequences 

For them to expand on the endings, the endings must already exist.

The EC is actually direct proof that the endings to the ME trilogy are already present in the game, which is yet more proof that the IT is not the intended interpretation.

No idea what you are smoking but it'd probably make me feel better too....or not...you take their lazy textbox way too literally and you really take every word they say at face value...that is grasping at straws on an epic proportion never seen before. What baffles me is why anyone would try to defend a turd in the beer mug but you're doing it and it's not working.

BioWare also clearly stateds that if we knew what they had planned for the EC the reactions would be completely different, Mike Gamble iirc....so if you take this statement at face value it means we haven't the slightest clue about how the ending will go down with the EC.....they are throwing double speak, PR damage control talk that can easily go either way....it's all about NOT saying anything deffinite ahd that's how you're trying to view it all as absolute.

Anyway have fun with your denials....I need to go do other things.

[Erield]

Darth_Trethon wrote...


Anyway have fun with your denials....I need to go do other things.

Take care.  It was interesting watching you avoid answering the very specific reasons why your arguments were flawed.

[Hadeedak]

Taking things literally= grasping at straws.

[Candidate 88766]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

No idea what you are smoking but it'd probably make me feel better too....or not...you take their lazy textbox way too literally and you really take every word they say at face value...that is grasping at straws on an epic proportion never seen before. What baffles me is why anyone would try to defend a turd in the beer mug but you're doing it and it's not working.

BioWare also clearly stateds that if we knew what they had planned for the EC the reactions would be completely different, Mike Gamble iirc....so if you take this statement at face value it means we haven't the slightest clue about how the ending will go down with the EC.....they are throwing double speak, PR damage control talk that can easily go either way....it's all about NOT saying anything deffinite ahd that's how you're trying to view it all as absolute.

Anyway have fun with your denials....I need to go do other things.

Are you actually being serious?

The game directly tells you that the story is over, not just in this dialogue box but in the achievements/trophies as well, and your attempt to disprove it is that "it must be a lie"?

And you think I'm the one in denial?

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 14 mai 2012 - 01:53 .

[Elyiia]

Hadeedak wrote...

Taking things literally= grasping at straws.

You have to admit, it's hard to argue with a textbox that has been intentionally placed there and is breaking the fourth wall to tell you your theories are wrong.

[FlyingCow371]

Nope. Dream plants = joker and the normandy actually got destroyed when they were inside the relay while it was exploding and they're actually all dead. Just like most other things Shepard might've cared about in the galaxy prior to meeting the Catalyst. Yay endings are great!

[Hadeedak]

Elyiia wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Taking things literally= grasping at straws.

You have to admit, it's hard to argue with a textbox that has been intentionally placed there and is breaking the fourth wall to tell you your theories are wrong.

Oh yeah. That's why I keep bringing it up. I was avoiding this thread because it seemed silly, but I jumped in to see that and decided to repost something which amused me. For the record, I think taking things literally is the opposite of grasping at straws.