303 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth_Trethon]

Erield wrote...




You talk and yell at me saying that I'm in denial.  I'm pretty sure that you and all the other hardcore IT adherents are the ones in denial.  You refuse to admit that Bioware made a horrible botch of the ending, on such a grand scale that "disaster" scarcely begins to address the issue.  You are the one who was Indoctrinated by Bioware, before ME3 ever shipped; you refuse to see that they are human, and fallible, and prone to errors of judgement.  You fail to see that what we saw is, indeed, what we get--as terrible as that may be.  Face it; your good friend ME is dead, and Bioware killed him.

The EC isn't changing the endings.  Do you know why?  Because the ending will still go something like this: Shepard charges the Conduit beam, many people die.  Shepard and Anderson confront TIM in the Citadel.  Shepard interacts with Star Child.  Shepard makes his Final Choice.  End sequence plays.  Credits roll.  Stargazer epilogue post-credits rolls.  And you're back on the Normandy, having successfully defeated the Reapers.  That's the ending we currently have, and what we'll have after EC; all EC will do is add stuff like Joker sweeping down to pick up your crew-mates, Shepard messaging the fleet to use the Relays and retreat because they're about to explode, etc.

File names can be used as evidence, but are not facts.  The development plans specifically state that the scene in question was axed.  The completely unexplainable nonsense is easily explained if you accept that Bioware ****ed up.

I don't hate IT.  The very idea is intriguing as hell, and there's just enough there to give me seeds of doubt.  What I hate is when people refuse to see that they are grasping at circumstantial evidence (at best) and playing it off as clear-cut proof.

Hell of a lot more clear than trying to explain it....it is just that unexplainable. Quite literally like trying to explain a turd in your beer mug. The whole sequence with TIM controlling you should ring a billion bells.....it just doesn't fit, period. There is no explaining it. Same with the Normandy leaving and dead squad members not only alive but miraculously teleported to the Normandy.....it's all been said a trillion times. There is not a single thing that can be defended there.

A tiny little pawn of the reapers can make you shoot a friend against your will...can essentially control you...yet you're telling me that the control option will work for shepard because the reapers aren't controlling him, their little pawn with limited understanding of the indoctrination technology just did....wha't stopping the reapers? Shepard couldn't defend himself against TIM controlling him so what's he going to do against the reapers if he chooses control?

Just take a second and actually THINK about it. There is no explanation besides the IT that can possibly make this and all the other trillion similar plotholes right.

[nightcobra]

Elyiia wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Taking things literally= grasping at straws.

You have to admit, it's hard to argue with a textbox that has been intentionally placed there and is breaking the fourth wall to tell you your theories are wrong.

not really.

consider for a moment that IT is true, then after you break off from the indocrination attempt you do the final fight against reapers and win. then the credits roll and that message appears again.
nothing in the context of that message changed. 

and darth tretton.. could you back down a bit? your behaviour towards people who don't share your views leaves a bit to be desired. 

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 14 mai 2012 - 01:59 .

[Candidate 88766]

Elyiia wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Taking things literally= grasping at straws.

You have to admit, it's hard to argue with a textbox that has been intentionally placed there and is breaking the fourth wall to tell you your theories are wrong.

Not to mention that the achievements/trophies explicitly tell the player they've ended the Reaper threat and finished the story.

Legend: Mission Accomplished

[Hadeedak]

FlyingCow371 wrote...

Nope. Dream plants = joker and the normandy actually got destroyed when they were inside the relay while it was exploding and they're actually all dead. Just like most other things Shepard might've cared about in the galaxy prior to meeting the Catalyst. Yay endings are great!

Don't forget the secret 'indoctrination theory is true' ending they can add in. You know, the one where Shepard realizes he/she has been influenced by Reapers to the point of having hallucinations. So s/he shoots him/herself because you don't get free of Reaper influence in the Mass Effect universe. It ought to be a barrel of laughs.

[Erield]

Elyiia wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Taking things literally= grasping at straws.

You have to admit, it's hard to argue with a textbox that has been intentionally placed there and is breaking the fourth wall to tell you your theories are wrong.

Thinking on the textbox more, I've realized what I would do if I were a devious dev working for Bioware (I'm not.  I'm really, really bad at creating stuff) then the textbox would have been the perfect way to let players that they had just failed.

Commander Shepard has fallen to Reaper Influence, and used the Crucible to destroy all resistance.  Continue the journey from before his fall, with new purchasable DLC!

Or something like that.  You have IT.  People who figured it out on the way are super-psyched, because they get the "You won!" message and everyone else gets "You failed!"  People who failed are like "WTF?!" and try again to figure out what they did wrong.  Instant replay value.

[Wowky]

People still need to remember that the ending doesn't have to change for IT to turn out to be right. I'm not saying it is or isn't (I really hope it is, because I think it's super clever), but the ending can stay the way it is and IT will still make sense.

[Candidate 88766]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Taking things literally= grasping at straws.

You have to admit, it's hard to argue with a textbox that has been intentionally placed there and is breaking the fourth wall to tell you your theories are wrong.

not really.

consider for a moment that IT is true, then after you break off from the indocrination attempt you do the final fight against reapers and win. then the credits roll and that message appears again.
nothing in the context of that message changed. 

But if IT is true, you haven't ended the Reaper threat. Not yet. The fact that the game tells you you've ended the Reaper threat shows that the IT is wrong.

[Hadeedak]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Taking things literally= grasping at straws.

You have to admit, it's hard to argue with a textbox that has been intentionally placed there and is breaking the fourth wall to tell you your theories are wrong.

not really.

consider for a moment that IT is true, then after you break off from the indocrination attempt you do the final fight against reapers and win. then the credits roll and that message appears again.
nothing in the context of that message changed. 

So why does it pop up after choosing control and synthesis? Just for the lols?

[Elyiia]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Taking things literally= grasping at straws.

You have to admit, it's hard to argue with a textbox that has been intentionally placed there and is breaking the fourth wall to tell you your theories are wrong.

not really.

consider for a moment that IT is true, then after you break off from the indocrination attempt you do the final fight against reapers and win. then the credits roll and that message appears again.
nothing in the context of that message changed. 

Except that's not the case.

Control? I failed but I get that message.
Synthesis? I failed but I get that message.

The fact is that if IT is true, then Shepard has not defeated the Reaper threat directly going against the message.

[Candidate 88766]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Just take a second and actually THINK about it. There is no explanation besides the IT that can possibly make this and all the other trillion similar plotholes right.

The fact that it covers up a lot of the plotholes doesn't mean its true.

Claiming the entire trilogy is a dream gets rid of every plothole, but it clearly isn't true.

Anyway, I thought you were going? 

[Wowky]

Hadeedak wrote...

FlyingCow371 wrote...

Nope. Dream plants = joker and the normandy actually got destroyed when they were inside the relay while it was exploding and they're actually all dead. Just like most other things Shepard might've cared about in the galaxy prior to meeting the Catalyst. Yay endings are great!

Don't forget the secret 'indoctrination theory is true' ending they can add in. You know, the one where Shepard realizes he/she has been influenced by Reapers to the point of having hallucinations. So s/he shoots him/herself because you don't get free of Reaper influence in the Mass Effect universe. It ought to be a barrel of laughs.

You know what? I would probably think that is friggin' amazing. Sad as all hell, but an awesome twist.

[Darth_Trethon]

Erield wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...


Anyway have fun with your denials....I need to go do other things.

Take care.  It was interesting watching you avoid answering the very specific reasons why your arguments were flawed.

You haven't got any reasons.....the best the dude had to say were claims the plants were in the dream without any screenshots....I can say I saw pink ponies in the in-game dream sequence.

And the textbox....like they would or could admit they had to ship the game unfinished if they wanted to.

It's you who failed to provide any kind of logical explanation to anything at all....the only things you did was pure and simply deny. Someone can tell me that 1+1=2 and I can sit there and keep saying that 1+1=973 can be explained without ever touching any of the logic or providing any myself but it still wouldn't be anything better than trolling or denial.

[Erield]

Wowky wrote...

People still need to remember that the ending doesn't have to change for IT to turn out to be right. I'm not saying it is or isn't (I really hope it is, because I think it's super clever), but the ending can stay the way it is and IT will still make sense.

If IT is true, and the endings don't change significantly, then the Reapers are still around.  And in that case, then **** Bioware, I'm done with them forever.  It means they lied in interviews to advertise the game and they lied within the game itself.  It means that they knowingly, deliberately shipped an incomplete product, with the pure intent of tricking you into thinking that they hadn't.  It would mean that they tried to scam off a lame ending on the majority of the crowd, and have a "real" ending later for the hard-core fans who'll pony up the money for it in DLC format 6 or 8 months down the line.

I don't think that's the case, but there's a thread of fear deep in my heart that that is exactly what they were going for.

[nightcobra]

Elyiia wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Taking things literally= grasping at straws.

You have to admit, it's hard to argue with a textbox that has been intentionally placed there and is breaking the fourth wall to tell you your theories are wrong.

not really.

consider for a moment that IT is true, then after you break off from the indocrination attempt you do the final fight against reapers and win. then the credits roll and that message appears again.
nothing in the context of that message changed. 

Except that's not the case.

Control? I failed but I get that message.
Synthesis? I failed but I get that message.

The fact is that if IT is true, then Shepard has not defeated the Reaper threat directly going against the message.

consider this:

matriarch benezia and saren
they managed to break off indocrination for a few moments.
shepard could do the same, defeat the reapers but the downside is death afterwards
which is the same result right now with destroy being the only one where shepard survives

[Elyiia]

I don't see why people find it so hard to believe Bioware goofed when the main plot point (the Crucible) has a 3.37224379 × 10 ^ -63 % chance of surviving to our cycle if it's been around for 15,000 cycles (countless cycles) with a 99% chance of being passed down.

[ImmovableMover]

Goddamn IT guys get stupider and stupider, I swear..

When people use "Dream" to describe something it usually means "Idyllic". People look forward to buying "Their dream house" or going on their "dream holiday" and that planet is, quite obviously, meant to be a "dream planet" - It's a veritable paradise (or is presented as such). Lush and green, beautiful sky, a sunset...yes it's fairly plain to see that it's meant to be "Perfect" and thus not a ****ty happenstance that they've crashed there.

And thus when building their dream planet, for sake of keeping files grouped together, they also have their assets labeled as such and that gives us...DreamPlant.

[Elyiia]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

nightcobra8928 wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Taking things literally= grasping at straws.

You have to admit, it's hard to argue with a textbox that has been intentionally placed there and is breaking the fourth wall to tell you your theories are wrong.

not really.

consider for a moment that IT is true, then after you break off from the indocrination attempt you do the final fight against reapers and win. then the credits roll and that message appears again.
nothing in the context of that message changed. 

Except that's not the case.

Control? I failed but I get that message.
Synthesis? I failed but I get that message.

The fact is that if IT is true, then Shepard has not defeated the Reaper threat directly going against the message.

consider this:

matriarch benezia and saren
they managed to break off indocrination for a few moments.
shepard could do the same, defeat the reapers but the downside is death afterwards
which is the same result right now with destroy being the only one where shepard survives

I don't have to consider anything. Fact: This message appears immediately after choosing one of the options and going through the cutscenes. Fact: If IT is true, Shepard has not defeated the Reapers. Therefore message discredits IT.

[Erield]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Erield wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...


Anyway have fun with your denials....I need to go do other things.

Take care.  It was interesting watching you avoid answering the very specific reasons why your arguments were flawed.

You haven't got any reasons.....the best the dude had to say were claims the plants were in the dream without any screenshots....I can say I saw pink ponies in the in-game dream sequence.

And the textbox....like they would or could admit they had to ship the game unfinished if they wanted to.

It's you who failed to provide any kind of logical explanation to anything at all....the only things you did was pure and simply deny. Someone can tell me that 1+1=2 and I can sit there and keep saying that 1+1=973 can be explained without ever touching any of the logic or providing any myself but it still wouldn't be anything better than trolling or denial.

/sigh
You take facts, like the text-name of a file, and then turn that into the fact that the entire sequence it appears in is a dream.  This is faulty reasoning.

dream-plant as a file-name can lend credence to the fact that the scene it appears in is a dream, or it could mean a variety of other things that are equally plausible.

I'd re-type out everything.  Again.  But you didn't read it the first time around (apparently) even though you responded directly at least once. 

[Peranor]

Hadeedak wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Taking things literally= grasping at straws.

You have to admit, it's hard to argue with a textbox that has been intentionally placed there and is breaking the fourth wall to tell you your theories are wrong.

Oh yeah. That's why I keep bringing it up. I was avoiding this thread because it seemed silly, but I jumped in to see that and decided to repost something which amused me. For the record, I think taking things literally is the opposite of grasping at straws.

There is a catch though with the textbox!

If you take a screenshot of the textbox, invert the colors, print it out on alkaline paper. And then you put the paper in the oven on 392 degrees Fahrenheit for 15 minutes. Take it out and let it cool for an hour in a moisture free environment and then sprinkle it with lemon juice and let it dry for another 15 minutes in the oven set on 232,5 degrees Fahrenheit .
Now, once you have done that, if you hold the paper up against the moonlight (has to be full moon mind you) you can clearly se the words "It's all a dream" appear on the paper.

Not many people who deny the indoctrination theory knows about this little trick.

[Hadeedak]

Yes. Long enough to commit suicide, TIM and Saren did manage to break free. Benezia, long enough to monologue... And then commit suicide by Shepard.

That sure sounds like it'll be conducive to beating the Reapers.

And no one has EVER broken free of Reaper influence, especially if they're having hallucinations. I guess Shepard's super-special. Sure, indoctrination theory fills in some plot holes, but every version I've heard makes gaping new ones.

[Elyiia]

anorling wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Elyiia wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

Taking things literally= grasping at straws.

You have to admit, it's hard to argue with a textbox that has been intentionally placed there and is breaking the fourth wall to tell you your theories are wrong.

Oh yeah. That's why I keep bringing it up. I was avoiding this thread because it seemed silly, but I jumped in to see that and decided to repost something which amused me. For the record, I think taking things literally is the opposite of grasping at straws.

There is a catch though with the textbox!

If you take a screenshot of the textbox, invert the colors, print it out on alkaline paper. And then you put the paper in the oven on 392 degrees Fahrenheit for 15 minutes. Take it out and let it cool for an hour in a moisture free environment and then sprinkle it with lemon juice and let it dry for another 15 minutes in the oven set on 232,5 degrees Fahrenheit .
Now, once you have done that, if you hold the paper up against the moonlight (has to be full moon mind you) you can clearly se the words "It's all a dream" appear on the paper.

Not many people who deny the indoctrination theory knows about this little trick.

+1

[Erield]

nightcobra8928 wrote...

consider this:

matriarch benezia and saren
they managed to break off indocrination for a few moments.
shepard could do the same, defeat the reapers but the downside is death afterwards
which is the same result right now with destroy being the only one where shepard survives

How are the Reapers defeated if IT is true?  The entire sequence on the Citadel that results in the defeat of the Reapers is actually just happening in Shepard's mind, right?  So, Shepards head-cannon (har har) kills them?

[nightcobra]

Elyiia wrote...


I don't have to consider anything. Fact: This message appears immediately after choosing one of the options and going through the cutscenes. Fact: If IT is true, Shepard has not defeated the Reapers. Therefore message discredits IT.

if IT is true then we haven't seen shepard defeat the reapers...yet.

yes this would mean we'd have an incomplete product at launch, at least it's completion is free of charge. 

Modifié par nightcobra8928, 14 mai 2012 - 02:07 .

[Candidate 88766]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

Erield wrote...

Darth_Trethon wrote...


Anyway have fun with your denials....I need to go do other things.

Take care.  It was interesting watching you avoid answering the very specific reasons why your arguments were flawed.

You haven't got any reasons.....the best the dude had to say were claims the plants were in the dream without any screenshots....I can say I saw pink ponies in the in-game dream sequence.

And the textbox....like they would or could admit they had to ship the game unfinished if they wanted to.

I provided a video, which is like lots of screenshots shown in rapid succession. I can try to print screen the relevant frames, but I assumed it would be easier for you to just watch it.

As for the textbox, why would they tell you the story is over if its a lie? You've yet to answer this.

Someone can tell me that 1+1=2 and I can sit there and keep saying that 1+1=973 can be explained without ever touching any of the logic or providing any myself 

Its funny because thats exactly what you're doing.

I've shown you proof, and your best response was to ignore it and claim it was a lie without any evidence to back up the claim thats its a lie.

[Hadeedak]

Wowky wrote...

Hadeedak wrote...

FlyingCow371 wrote...

Nope. Dream plants = joker and the normandy actually got destroyed when they were inside the relay while it was exploding and they're actually all dead. Just like most other things Shepard might've cared about in the galaxy prior to meeting the Catalyst. Yay endings are great!

Don't forget the secret 'indoctrination theory is true' ending they can add in. You know, the one where Shepard realizes he/she has been influenced by Reapers to the point of having hallucinations. So s/he shoots him/herself because you don't get free of Reaper influence in the Mass Effect universe. It ought to be a barrel of laughs.

You know what? I would probably think that is friggin' amazing. Sad as all hell, but an awesome twist.

Oh man. If that was the way the game ended, the forums would be incandescant. It would probably bypass mad into amazing.