277 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

Crucible... what is it exactly? How does it work?

I have a theory about that... I actually mentioned it before in some old thread. But considering the Extended Cut development, I'm sure this theory deserves it's own topic... First, let's refresh all we know about biotic basics in ME Trilogy:

(1) All biotics can manipulate dark energy using some micro-formations inside their neural system.
(2) All biotics need special aplifiers (Amps) to make their abilities effective anough. Most of these Amps are actually small synthetic implants.
(3) Using the Amps to bust neural formations' effectiveness biotics can damage their enemies, and use crowd control abilities to shape the battlefield.
(4) Biotic powers can affect battlefield selectively, so biotic can use offencive powers to kill/control enemies whithout hurting her allies. 
(5) Shepard has biotic abilities no matter the class. Even Soldier Shepard can use biotic talents as a bonus powers.

So, a tiny synthetic implant can give Shepard ability to destroy or control some enemies. Shepard can even affect enemies without hurting allies nearby...

...But what if Shepard will use 45km-long huge space station as a Biotic Amp? How powerful her abilities will become in this case? Yes, my thoery is that Crucible actually turns the Citadel and the entire network of Mass Relays into the enormous Biotic Amp... And as you remember, biotics can Control or Destroy their enemies Selectively. How effective this selectivity works depends only on how good the biotic, her Amp, and her allies were prepared for the combat...

...Catalist could let Shepard die, but... Well, you all know the endings. So Shepard's victory was about making Catalist to understand that its crazy "solution" doesn't work anymore. Catalist started to feel guilty for all deaths on its hands. It had to admit that all these deaths were for nothing, and let Shepard to decide its fate, and fate of entire galaxy...


This is not just a support for the ME3 it also the support of the past and the future of the ME Universe.

One more theory... It's clear that someone created the Reapers. And maybe that super-advanced civilization (the Reapers' Creators) was sacrificed to create the Citadel and the very first Reapers. There could be two groups in that civilization. Pro-Reapers wanted to create the Reapers and start the Cycles. Anti-Reapers wanted to solve organic-vs-synthetic problem peacefully... And the second group will not be as powerful as the first one eventually.

But both Pro-Reapers and Anti-Reapers may not vanish completely. They could fight each other for a long time after the Cycles were started. Pro-Reapers are trying to kill all Anti-Reapers. And Anti-Reapers are trying to survive, and help lesser civilizations to break the Cycles... I think, that Crucible could not be developed by any of lesser civilizations that grew up in the Cycles. So, my theory is that Crucible's blueprints were developed by Anti-Reapers and then "leaked" to the lesser civilizations, so they might have a chance to defeat the Reapers and break the Cycles while Pro-Reapers and Anti-Reapers are busy fighting each other in some distant galaxy.

...Moreover Pro-Reapers could establish the Cycles in many different galaxies. So, Pro-vs-Anti Battlefield scale could be really enormous... I hope BioWare will keep making RPGs in ME Universe. They really can develop the most beautiful and complicated Sci-Fi Story in the world. No developers/writers will be able to compete with this.



EDIT: The OP was modified and renamed to reflect its purpose better

P.S. BioWare, keep doing the great job! We trust in you

Modifié par Seival, 09 juin 2012 - 10:04 .

[veramis]

I don't think the people at bioware have enough understanding of sci-fi or electronics to give a plausible explanation of how the crucible works. The way it is now with Hackett going "We builded it we don't know what it does!", I don't want it to change, because I think they would do something horribly embarrassing.

[TSA_383]

This is, um... rather left-field...

I think it's more likely, given all the cycles it's survived, that it's some kind of trap.

[Seival]

Fixed some formating issues in OP.

[garrusfan1]

that would be cool if they could pull it off right

[Seival]

garrusfan1 wrote...

that would be cool if they could pull it off right

I'm sure they can. Soon we will see...

[SimonTheFrog]

well, the biotics create high- and low gravity fields.

At least that was the basic idea about eezo and all. Stasis and that kind of stuff... or charge even, they were added as gameplay necessities while violating their own theoretical setup.
Which is understandable.

But "controlling the reapers" as in actually telling them to help rebuilding rannoch? That is not something that strikes doable with biotics alone.
Destroying yeah i guess so.

And synthesis... uh hell, just forget about that choice anyway...

[Seival]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

well, the biotics create high- and low gravity fields.

At least that was the basic idea about eezo and all. Stasis and that kind of stuff... or charge even, they were added as gameplay necessities while violating their own theoretical setup.
Which is understandable.

But "controlling the reapers" as in actually telling them to help rebuilding rannoch? That is not something that strikes doable with biotics alone.
Destroying yeah i guess so.

And synthesis... uh hell, just forget about that choice anyway...

Yes, synthesis should be removed from the game in the Extended Cut.

As for Control in terms of biotic abilities... Biotics can mind-control actually. Remember Morinth from ME2?

Modifié par Seival, 14 mai 2012 - 03:44 .

[garrusfan1]

Seival wrote...

SimonTheFrog wrote...

well, the biotics create high- and low gravity fields.

At least that was the basic idea about eezo and all. Stasis and that kind of stuff... or charge even, they were added as gameplay necessities while violating their own theoretical setup.
Which is understandable.

But "controlling the reapers" as in actually telling them to help rebuilding rannoch? That is not something that strikes doable with biotics alone.
Destroying yeah i guess so.

And synthesis... uh hell, just forget about that choice anyway...

Yes, synthesis should be removed from the game in the Extended Cut.

As for Control in terms of biotic abilities... Biotics can mind-control actually. Remember Morinth from ME2?

that is a good point and is kinda cool

[Zuka999]

This is probably more interesting than what they will actually give us as an explanation, if they even try. I don't think they had anything in mind. If nothing else they will pull that crap about technology being so advanced that it seems like magic. What a lame cop out that explanation is.

[EricHVela]

TSA_383 wrote...

This is, um... rather left-field...

I think it's more likely, given all the cycles it's survived, that it's some kind of trap.

Yes. That is rather left-field but still plausible.

For all we know, it allows the Reapers to focus indoctrination on something -- like the one Human they all know by name.

(No. I still don't buy IT.)

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 14 mai 2012 - 04:47 .

[Seival]

FTL forums

[Taboo]

veramis wrote...

I don't think the people at bioware have enough understanding of sci-fi or electronics to give a plausible explanation of how the crucible works. The way it is now with Hackett going "We builded it we don't know what it does!", I don't want it to change, because I think they would do something horribly embarrassing.

[M_Kirkwall]

Seival wrote...

 (2) All biotics need special aplifiers (Amps) to make their abilities effective anough. Most of these Amps are actually small synthetic implants.

If this is true, then Destroy ending also makes us unable to use our biotics. Glad I chose control.

[Seival]

rev0n wrote...

Seival wrote...

 (2) All biotics need special aplifiers (Amps) to make their abilities effective anough. Most of these Amps are actually small synthetic implants.

If this is true, then Destroy ending also makes us unable to use our biotics. Glad I chose control.

"Biotics manipulate mass effect fields using dozens of element zero nodules within their nervous system that react to electric stimuli from the brain. Bio-amps allow biotics to synchronize the nodules so they can form fields large and strong enough for practical use. Amplifiers can improve a specific discipline or talent.

An implant is a surgically-embedded interface port into which amps are "plugged in". They are also known as 'wetware' because of their cybernetic nature. In humans, the implant is usually placed at the base of the skull for convenient access, though the user must be careful to keep it free of contaminants.
 
Implant ports can fit a variety of amps, and there is a growing market for modifications and add-ons. The finest quality implants and amps are manufactured by asari artisans, but the Alliance's L3 implants - first deployed in 2170 - are a significant step forward."

[eddieoctane]

SimonTheFrog wrote...

well, the biotics create high- and low gravity fields.

At least that was the basic idea about eezo and all. Stasis and that kind of stuff... or charge even, they were added as gameplay necessities while violating their own theoretical setup.
Which is understandable.

But "controlling the reapers" as in actually telling them to help rebuilding rannoch? That is not something that strikes doable with biotics alone.
Destroying yeah i guess so.

And synthesis... uh hell, just forget about that choice anyway...

I'd say this theory holds up in synthesis, at least on a basic level. Rearranging matter on an atomic scale across the entire galaxy would require somethign along the lines of a few septillion septillion septillion micro-singularities, each nudging only a single atom around.

In control, you could argue the same singularities are moving around electrons and thus rewriting the Reapers' programming. This requires a bigger stretch of the imagination, and making it vaporize Shepard starts to crack the suspension of disbelief if this argument is applied.

If Shep had the control to perform a biotic-fueled synthesis with no ill effects, it stands to reason that (s)he would be able to selectively destroy the Reapers with no damage to the Geth or EDI. This is stated to not be the case.

In all cases, however, the computing power necessary to biotically perform these actions draws in the quantum mechanical limits to computing.

All in all, I'd say everything about the ending can't be explained with any measure of science, even that derived from the game's logic.

[Wabajakka]

Seival wrote...

How effective this selectivity works depends only on how good the biotic, her Amp, and her allies were prepared for the combat...

That line right there is my biggest problem with this.

Not to mention soldier and engineer Shepard don't have to have biotic bonus powers, even if they did, it would make them the weakest biotics, so I'm going to have to say no to this one.

The ending cannot rely on the class of your character, it just doesn't work that way.

Modifié par Orange Tee, 14 mai 2012 - 11:08 .

[Aethgeir]

I think you've touched on something much more important than just the idea you've proposed.

What exactly does the Crucible do? This is one of the main questions throughout the entire game, and even after the endings it still doesn't make any sense. Right now it seems to basically be a giant bag of magic tricks!

However the extended cut goes down I hope they at least answer this question

[Seival]

Orange Tee wrote...

Seival wrote...

How effective this selectivity works depends only on how good the biotic, her Amp, and her allies were prepared for the combat...

That line right there is my biggest problem with this.

Not to mention soldier and engineer Shepard don't have to have biotic bonus powers, even if they did, it would make them the weakest biotics, so I'm going to have to say no to this one.

The ending cannot rely on the class of your character, it just doesn't work that way.

Soldier or Engineer Shepard can learn biotic powers in each ME game. Which means, that Shepard has at least some minor biotic talents (even if she doesn't  want to use them in combat). And Crucible-Citadel-Amp may amplify even such minor talents to extraordinary levels... So, the theory doesn't actually have to depend on Shepard's class. Any Shepard is able to use biotic powers - this is more then enough.

[wryterra]

Seival wrote...

biotics can Control or Destroy their enemies

No they can't. That's the fundamental flaw here. They can create walls/shields/lifts that inhibit an enemy's movement but they cannot directly control them. They can exert great forces causing physical harm and maybe even death but not explicitly destroy an enemy. 

[Seival]

wryterra wrote...

Seival wrote...

biotics can Control or Destroy their enemies

No they can't. That's the fundamental flaw here. They can create walls/shields/lifts that inhibit an enemy's movement but they cannot directly control them. They can exert great forces causing physical harm and maybe even death but not explicitly destroy an enemy. 

http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Dominate
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Warp

Modifié par Seival, 15 mai 2012 - 10:14 .

[Seival]

FTL forums

[Mobius-Silent]

Seival wrote...
As for Control in terms of biotic abilities... Biotics can mind-control actually. Remember Morinth from ME2?

That isn't a Biotic ability, it's a perversion of part of their their natural mating method, the ability to synchronise nervous systems. Normal Asari can naturaly generate empathy and potentially attraction as an ambient ability, AYpoisitive Asari have much stronger and more firece electro-chemecal activity in their nervous system hence a stronger ability to manuipulate others and stronger biotic ability.

AY positive Asari like Morinth can refine and chanel their ability with biotics but it existed before the Asari were able to use Biotics

Modifié par Mobius-Silent, 15 mai 2012 - 03:09 .

[BobbyDylan]

Not enough chickens in this thread.

[Mobius-Silent]

The Crucible definitely pigybacks on the Citadel's huge Mass Relay and the ability to control the Relay network, in that sense it is all about Ezo and mass effect fields, I think we can conclusively say that the effect was not uniquely driven by an organic (In Destroy or Synthesis) so in that case I don't think it could be classed as biotics. Once the Control ending has completed Shepard no longer has a physical body, whatever is left (software maybe) that is driving the control probably wouldn't be described as using a Biotic ability either.