277 réponses à ce sujet

[M Hedonist]

Seival wrote...

There is such thing as "'properly written DEM", and ME3 have already proven that. As I already said, DEM endings just need more time to be understood, than standard holywood endings.

Yeah, ME3 did great. That's why everybody loves the ending of that game.
The ending of ME3 is exactly the kind of hastily written garbage I expect from modern hollywood films. This kind of ending is supposed to pander to people who think everything that is against the norm is smart and high-brow entertainment. These people are commonly referred to as "hipsters".

Modifié par Sauruz, 11 juin 2012 - 01:25 .

[Joe Del Toro]

A 'properly written DEM' is a phrase akin to 'An erudite vorcha' but whatever.

[M Hedonist]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

A 'properly written DEM' is a phrase akin to 'An erudite vorcha' but whatever.

Lol oxymoron.

[Joe Del Toro]

Sauruz wrote...

Joe Del Toro wrote...

A 'properly written DEM' is a phrase akin to 'An erudite vorcha' but whatever.

Lol oxymoron.

You're an oxymoron.

Oh wait you me-never mind

[Erield]

Seival wrote...

There is such thing as "'properly written DEM", and ME3 have already proven that. As I already said, DEM endings just need more time to be understood, than standard holywood endings.

So, a "properly written DEM" in a game is supposed to alienate its fanbase, destroy narrative consistency, abandaon previously established themes in favor others that were merely plot points up to that point, render meaningless every action that came before, force you into making a moral choice in a vacuum and with no context to base it upon, and then blow up the galaxy?

If so, then yes...ME3 did it right.

[Seival]

Erield wrote...

Seival wrote...

There is such thing as "'properly written DEM", and ME3 have already proven that. As I already said, DEM endings just need more time to be understood, than standard holywood endings.

So, a "properly written DEM" in a game is supposed to alienate its fanbase, destroy narrative consistency, abandaon previously established themes in favor others that were merely plot points up to that point, render meaningless every action that came before, force you into making a moral choice in a vacuum and with no context to base it upon, and then blow up the galaxy?

If so, then yes...ME3 did it right.

There were no such things about the endings. But there was a vocal minority, who disagreed with the endings completely.

Modifié par Seival, 11 juin 2012 - 01:56 .

[M Hedonist]

Seival wrote...

Erield wrote...

Seival wrote...

There is such thing as "'properly written DEM", and ME3 have already proven that. As I already said, DEM endings just need more time to be understood, than standard holywood endings.

So, a "properly written DEM" in a game is supposed to alienate its fanbase, destroy narrative consistency, abandaon previously established themes in favor others that were merely plot points up to that point, render meaningless every action that came before, force you into making a moral choice in a vacuum and with no context to base it upon, and then blow up the galaxy?

If so, then yes...ME3 did it right.

There were no such things about the endings. But there was a vocal minority, who disagreed with the endings completely.

It does all of these things and there is no proof for the "vocal minority" claim.

[Jenonax]

Seival wrote...

There were no such things about the endings. But there was a vocal minority, who disagreed with the endings completely.

We're still on that are we?

Because its totally plausable that EA, the freaking overlords would finance an obviously huge project to fix the endings if it was just a couple of vocal people right?  

Hey, I didn't like the end of RDR do you think if I shout loud enough I can get Rockstar to spend millions to make me my own personal one?  You know, because business is so altruistic like that.

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

Erield wrote...

Seival wrote...

There is such thing as "'properly written DEM", and ME3 have already proven that. As I already said, DEM endings just need more time to be understood, than standard holywood endings.

So, a "properly written DEM" in a game is supposed to alienate its fanbase, destroy narrative consistency, abandaon previously established themes in favor others that were merely plot points up to that point, render meaningless every action that came before, force you into making a moral choice in a vacuum and with no context to base it upon, and then blow up the galaxy?

If so, then yes...ME3 did it right.

There were no such things about the endings.

Wow, what a well reasoned and thoughtful refutal!

Objections dismissed. 

But there was a vocal minority, who disagreed with the endings completely.

There IS a vocal PORTION of the fanbase, that is not the total number of people unhappy with the ending. There's far more who don't go on forums. 

[M Hedonist]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Wow, what a well reasoned and thoughtful refutal!

You can be lucky he even took the time to respond to your comment.
In his Normandy Crash thread I had to repeatedly mention that he was ignoring my argument until he responded with this:

Seival wrote...

Who said that your arguments doesn't matter? They matters, but I disagree with them.

Seival takes arguing on the BSN to a new low.

Modifié par Sauruz, 11 juin 2012 - 02:06 .

[Erield]

Seival wrote...

Erield wrote...

Seival wrote...

There is such thing as "'properly written DEM", and ME3 have already proven that. As I already said, DEM endings just need more time to be understood, than standard holywood endings.

So, a "properly written DEM" in a game is supposed to alienate its fanbase, destroy narrative consistency, abandaon previously established themes in favor others that were merely plot points up to that point, render meaningless every action that came before, force you into making a moral choice in a vacuum and with no context to base it upon, and then blow up the galaxy?

If so, then yes...ME3 did it right.

There were no such things about the endings. But there was a vocal minority, who disagreed with the endings completely.

Show me the fanbase that isn't feeling angry/alienated by the endings.  Show me the narrative consistency from..hell, let's just say Priority: Earth 'til the end.  Show me how the established primary themes of Unity and Self Determination are reinforced by the end.  Show me how Synthetics vs. Organics (which was major plot, sure) didn't take over as the primary theme; when was Synthetics vs. Organics discussed, and explored in depth?  How is the decision to cure the genophage or not relevent in a galaxy with slow FTL, no mass relays, and the bulk of the Krogan population without a leader capable of keeping them from killing themselves?

How is the final choice not a moral choice taken in a vacuum, with little context or information to determine the "right" course of action?

The galaxy might not have blown up.  I'll give you that one, since we found out on Twitter that it's still alive and kicking.

[Seival]

Erield wrote...

Seival wrote...

Erield wrote...

Seival wrote...

There is such thing as "'properly written DEM", and ME3 have already proven that. As I already said, DEM endings just need more time to be understood, than standard holywood endings.

So, a "properly written DEM" in a game is supposed to alienate its fanbase, destroy narrative consistency, abandaon previously established themes in favor others that were merely plot points up to that point, render meaningless every action that came before, force you into making a moral choice in a vacuum and with no context to base it upon, and then blow up the galaxy?

If so, then yes...ME3 did it right.

There were no such things about the endings. But there was a vocal minority, who disagreed with the endings completely.

Show me the fanbase that isn't feeling angry/alienated by the endings.  Show me the narrative consistency from..hell, let's just say Priority: Earth 'til the end.  Show me how the established primary themes of Unity and Self Determination are reinforced by the end.  Show me how Synthetics vs. Organics (which was major plot, sure) didn't take over as the primary theme; when was Synthetics vs. Organics discussed, and explored in depth?  How is the decision to cure the genophage or not relevent in a galaxy with slow FTL, no mass relays, and the bulk of the Krogan population without a leader capable of keeping them from killing themselves?

How is the final choice not a moral choice taken in a vacuum, with little context or information to determine the "right" course of action?

The galaxy might not have blown up.  I'll give you that one, since we found out on Twitter that it's still alive and kicking.

So far I've seen 80K (or so) angry fans after most people reached the ending. I even was among those 80K. But "angry fans' base" becomes smaller and smaller each day, because people are starting to realize that the endings were great.

...And the EC will explain everything to the players who still don't want to understand anything themselves.

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

So far I've seen 80K (or so) angry fans after most people reached the ending. I even was among those 80K. But "angry fans' base" becomes smaller and smaller each day, because people are starting to realize that the endings were great.

That's all bullsh*t conjecture. 

...And the EC will explain everything to the players who still don't want to understand anything themselves.

Your arrogance offends me. 

And for that the rate just went up 10%. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 11 juin 2012 - 03:08 .

[Medievalist]

Seival wrote...

So far I've seen 80K (or so) angry fans after most people reached the ending. I even was among those 80K. But "angry fans' base" becomes smaller and smaller each day, because people are starting to realize that the endings were great.

...And the EC will explain everything to the players who still don't want to understand anything themselves.

So far I, followed the development of this thread quite interested, but now it inevitably got lost in wishful thinking...

[dorktainian]

Seival wrote...

Erield wrote...

Seival wrote...

Erield wrote...

Seival wrote...

There is such thing as "'properly written DEM", and ME3 have already proven that. As I already said, DEM endings just need more time to be understood, than standard holywood endings.

So, a "properly written DEM" in a game is supposed to alienate its fanbase, destroy narrative consistency, abandaon previously established themes in favor others that were merely plot points up to that point, render meaningless every action that came before, force you into making a moral choice in a vacuum and with no context to base it upon, and then blow up the galaxy?

If so, then yes...ME3 did it right.

There were no such things about the endings. But there was a vocal minority, who disagreed with the endings completely.

Show me the fanbase that isn't feeling angry/alienated by the endings.  Show me the narrative consistency from..hell, let's just say Priority: Earth 'til the end.  Show me how the established primary themes of Unity and Self Determination are reinforced by the end.  Show me how Synthetics vs. Organics (which was major plot, sure) didn't take over as the primary theme; when was Synthetics vs. Organics discussed, and explored in depth?  How is the decision to cure the genophage or not relevent in a galaxy with slow FTL, no mass relays, and the bulk of the Krogan population without a leader capable of keeping them from killing themselves?

How is the final choice not a moral choice taken in a vacuum, with little context or information to determine the "right" course of action?

The galaxy might not have blown up.  I'll give you that one, since we found out on Twitter that it's still alive and kicking.

So far I've seen 80K (or so) angry fans after most people reached the ending. I even was among those 80K. But "angry fans' base" becomes smaller and smaller each day, because people are starting to realize that the endings were great.

...And the EC will explain everything to the players who still don't want to understand anything themselves.

err....no.  The endings were dire.  They make no sense.  Lets blow the relays and obliterate trillions of lives for what reason exactly?  Joker ran away.  Why?  Earth is Devastated.  The Fleet is stranded in our solar system with no means of survival.  space brat?  Oh Shep shoots Anderson, but Shep is bleeding in the sameplace where he shot anderson.  Oh and the breath (which is on earth next to the conduit).  My LI ending up on the Normandy after running towards the beam with me.  Why?

Lets destroy every choice we've made over the last 3 games in 10 a spectacularly crap minutes.

That is a good ending for you yes?

[Seival]

dorktainian wrote...

Seival wrote...

Erield wrote...

Seival wrote...

Erield wrote...

Seival wrote...

There is such thing as "'properly written DEM", and ME3 have already proven that. As I already said, DEM endings just need more time to be understood, than standard holywood endings.

So, a "properly written DEM" in a game is supposed to alienate its fanbase, destroy narrative consistency, abandaon previously established themes in favor others that were merely plot points up to that point, render meaningless every action that came before, force you into making a moral choice in a vacuum and with no context to base it upon, and then blow up the galaxy?

If so, then yes...ME3 did it right.

There were no such things about the endings. But there was a vocal minority, who disagreed with the endings completely.

Show me the fanbase that isn't feeling angry/alienated by the endings.  Show me the narrative consistency from..hell, let's just say Priority: Earth 'til the end.  Show me how the established primary themes of Unity and Self Determination are reinforced by the end.  Show me how Synthetics vs. Organics (which was major plot, sure) didn't take over as the primary theme; when was Synthetics vs. Organics discussed, and explored in depth?  How is the decision to cure the genophage or not relevent in a galaxy with slow FTL, no mass relays, and the bulk of the Krogan population without a leader capable of keeping them from killing themselves?

How is the final choice not a moral choice taken in a vacuum, with little context or information to determine the "right" course of action?

The galaxy might not have blown up.  I'll give you that one, since we found out on Twitter that it's still alive and kicking.

So far I've seen 80K (or so) angry fans after most people reached the ending. I even was among those 80K. But "angry fans' base" becomes smaller and smaller each day, because people are starting to realize that the endings were great.

...And the EC will explain everything to the players who still don't want to understand anything themselves.

err....no.  The endings were dire.  They make no sense.  Lets blow the relays and obliterate trillions of lives for what reason exactly?  Joker ran away.  Why?  Earth is Devastated.  The Fleet is stranded in our solar system with no means of survival.  space brat?  Oh Shep shoots Anderson, but Shep is bleeding in the sameplace where he shot anderson.  Oh and the breath (which is on earth next to the conduit).  My LI ending up on the Normandy after running towards the beam with me.  Why?

Lets destroy every choice we've made over the last 3 games in 10 a spectacularly crap minutes.

That is a good ending for you yes?

You clearly didn't spend much time analyzing the endings

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

You clearly didn't spend much time analyzing the endings

Damn him for having a different opinion. 

Do us all a favour and delete your BSN account, the arrogance poisons us all. 

[MegaSovereign]

Seival, listen to yourself...you're indoctrinated.

They...they got us fighting each other. Because of you BSN is undone.

[Mobius-Silent]

Seival wrote...
You clearly didn't spend much time analyzing the endings

You clearly have poor deduction skills.

See how that works?

[MegaSovereign]

On a serious note guys, I think yall are being a bit harsh on Seival.

And about all this DEM nonsense...I'm tired of hearing it.

1) The Catalyst is not a DEM. He merely explains the Crucible's capabilities.

2) The Crucible isn't really a DEM either, or at least I don't think it was meant to be. It's directly linked to your war assets and it's possible that it will backfire if you aren't prepared (low EMS). Plus DEMs are suppose to be unexpected. You've been building up war assets for the Crucible the entire game.



Not to mention....People don't hate the endings because of DEM concepts. They hate it because of the consequences and events that happen shortly after the Crucible is fired. Mass Relays destroyed. Fleet stranded. Normandy crash landing on some random planet for no reason.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 11 juin 2012 - 03:30 .

[M Hedonist]

After Seival took arguing to a new low he's now also taking arrogance to a new high.
What other highs and lows of the BSN will the Adventures of Seival uncover? Stay tuned to find out!

[The Night Mammoth]

MegaSovereign wrote...

On a serious note guys, I think yall are being a bit harsh on Seival.

And about all this DEM nonsense...I'm tired of hearing it.

1) The Catalyst is not a DEM. He merely explains the Crucible's capabilities.

Thus solving a problem the story had up until that point.

You know, like a DEM would do. Funny that. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 11 juin 2012 - 03:31 .

[Joe Del Toro]

STOP TALKING TO HIM GOD DAMN IT

[MegaSovereign]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

On a serious note guys, I think yall are being a bit harsh on Seival.

And about all this DEM nonsense...I'm tired of hearing it.

1) The Catalyst is not a DEM. He merely explains the Crucible's capabilities.

Thus solving a problem the story had up until that point.

You know, like a DEM would do. Funny that. 

"Up until that point"

The Crucible solved that problem, and you've known about it and were trying to get it prepared the entire game.

Solution to a seemingly difficult problem =/= DEM.

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 11 juin 2012 - 03:34 .

[M Hedonist]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

STOP TALKING TO HIM GOD DAMN IT

Couldn't have said it better myself.
I'm so tired of arguing with Seival by now. Nevermind how good your argument is, he'll eventually go "I disagree with your argument". All of his threads need to be abandoned and forgotten forever.
Let's just have a little more patience for everybody to realize how futile it is to attempt arguing with Seival and make the best of it while it lasts.