277 réponses à ce sujet

[Seival]

MerchantGOL wrote...

ArchDuck wrote...

The key to victory was always unity. The crucible is just a writer's crutch.

yeah no "unity" will end up beating the reapers  whole out, there are too many they are too powerfull, and they fight way too dirty.

Exactly.

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...


What are you talking about? All that haters want to do is to turn Mass Effect Trilogy into some "War of the Worlds" or "Independence Day"... "We defeated the ancient and unstoppable race with a silly virus"...

Completely irrelevant, and also a massive strawman.

You said DEM's were good. 

DEM's are, by their definition and the point of the phrase, BAD. You don't use them, they aren't neutral literary devices that can be written well, or done poorly, they are inherently BAD. 

Also, I find mention of War of the Worlds in the context of bland and generic sci-fi without meaning to be f*cking hilarious. You really have no idea what you're talking about with that. 

First step on the road to understanding is to read the wikipedia article. War of the Worlds is about as far removed from shallow hollywood idiocy as you can possibly get. 

This reminds me of one of the parodies in Futurama: a "movie" where robots killed evil human with a simple stick... You should understand that most people are tired of these standard stories.

Wow, it's like I'm walking up the f*cking yellow brick road with how massive a strawman that is. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 14 juin 2012 - 03:39 .

[Seival]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seival wrote...


What are you talking about? All that haters want to do is to turn Mass Effect Trilogy into some "War of the Worlds" or "Independence Day"... "We defeated the ancient and unstoppable race with a silly virus"...

Completely irrelevant, and also a massive strawman.

You said DEM's were good. 

DEM's are, by their definition and the point of the phrase, BAD. You don't use them, they aren't neutral literary devices that can be written well, or done poorly, they are inherently BAD. 

Also, I find mention of War of the Worlds in the context of bland and generic sci-fi without meaning to be f*cking hilarious. You really have no idea what you're talking about with that. 

First step on the road to understanding is to read the wikipedia article. War of the Worlds is about as far removed from shallow hollywood idiocy as you can possibly get. 

This reminds me of one of the parodies in Futurama: a "movie" where robots killed evil human with a simple stick... You should understand that most people are tired of these standard stories.

Wow, it's like I'm walking up the f*cking yellow brick road with how massive a strawman that is. 

Why do I have a feeling that you are just trying to convince me that DEMs are bad? The point is that you think they are bad, and don't want to understand that not everyone agree with that.

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

Why do I have a feeling that you are just trying to convince me that DEMs are bad?

Well derp, maybe because I am? 

The point is that you think they are bad, and don't want to understand that not everyone agree with that.

Then they would be wrong. 

This isn't a matter of opinion. 

[LiarasShield]

No I do think that shepard and forces could've defeated the reapers without the crucible shepard and squad took down the human reaper from me2 destroyed soverign with other forces from mass effect 1 and soverign is suppose to be like a head destroy similar to harbinger and we taken down several reapers during me3 and used the thanaix cannon to destroy the reaper collector ship


So no the crucible to me isn't neccessary when the thanaix cannons and tactical strikes can destroy and hurt the reapers



You in particular keep pushing that shepard becoming the new catalyst is a good thing but here is why it is not if shepard loses everything that he or she has that alone could go far beyond that of just the body but the memories the feelings and emotions that make shepard shepard him or her becoming the new catalyst wouldn't neccessarily change anything other then the old catalyst passing on it ways or its mechinations of how it does things to shepard who may continue these endless mass genocides in the future actually control is the furthest thing away from paragon if you believe that shepard loses everything that he or she has and or isd

[Taboo]

 Wait, you believe that people are inherently unequal. What kind of right wing bull**** is this?

[M Hedonist]

Taboo-XX wrote...

 Wait, you believe that people are inherently unequal. What kind of right wing bull**** is this?

Wait - what?
I never bothered to read the original post.

[LiarasShield]

LiarasShield wrote...

No I do think that shepard and forces could've defeated the reapers without the crucible shepard and squad took down the human reaper from me2 destroyed soverign with other forces from mass effect 1 and soverign is suppose to be like a head destroy similar to harbinger and we taken down several reapers during me3 and used the thanaix cannon to destroy the reaper collector ship


So no the crucible to me isn't neccessary when the thanaix cannons and tactical strikes can destroy and hurt the reapers



You in particular keep pushing that shepard becoming the new catalyst is a good thing but here is why it is not if shepard loses everything that he or she has that alone could go far beyond that of just the body but the memories the feelings and emotions that make shepard shepard him or her becoming the new catalyst wouldn't neccessarily change anything other then the old catalyst passing on it ways or its mechinations of how it does things to shepard who may continue these endless mass genocides in the future actually control is the furthest thing away from paragon if you believe that shepard loses everything that he or she has and or isd

Sevial just how the crucible honestly isn't needed and control may not be the happy paragon option that you keep thinking it may be

[Taboo]

Sauruz wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

 Wait, you believe that people are inherently unequal. What kind of right wing bull**** is this?

Wait - what?
I never bothered to read the original post.

Read the top post in this thread.

EVERYONE IS  AGAINST US. WE NEED TO BE BETTER. 

[Joccaren]

Seival wrote...
I think that mentioned non-DEM ways are too standard-holywoodish and boring. Somehow, I believe that the same players, who now hate Crucible, would be enraged by any of those non-DEM ways even more after the very first playthrough... And then start blaming BioWare in making "standard games".

Hahah WOW.
HOLY CHRIST.
IT HAS ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

Ok, you do realise that DEMs are THE OLDEST and THE MOST CLICHED and a lot of the time THE MOST STANDARD-HOLYWOODISH AND BORING endings to exist right?


And no, most people wouldn't hate the non-DEM endings. They would love them if they were done well, and the story were done well. Bioware is already being criticised for making a standard game by many I know due to the massive increase in shooter content, massive reduction in all other content and massive focus on set pieces and explosions. Remove the focus from that, add it back to Dialogue, sidequests and conseqences for choices, re-balance Thanix and Geth/Turian/W.E numbers, and you can have a non standard game.
I'm going to ask you: What is not standard about the current ending? Everything in it has been done before numerous times and better.
DEM are the oldest mechanic in the book, dating back to ancient Greek times when an actor playing a god would actually be lowered down by a machine to save the hero somehow.
Synthetics vs Organics has been the focus of about half the movies made in the last 20 years or so.
The Protagonist dying has been the key of every tragedy since Romeo and Juliet, or probably even earlier.

Where's the originality?
If we're being honest, there is none. The ME3 ending is like a hipster, trying to be different and edgy - not mainstream - but doing so in such a standard and boring way that they become as mainstream as everyone else, but on the other side of the scale.

[o Ventus]

Seival wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

MacGuffin's aren't a good way to conclude what was a formerly epic trilogy.

That is all.

The Trilogy was Phylosophical from the beginning. Philosophical sci-fi stories can't end like some "War of the Worlds" or "Independence Day". I'm glad BioWare understand that.

No, the hell it wasn't. ME1 was pretty straightforward semi-hard SciFi. It only turned metaphysical and "philosophical" at the end of ME3.

And ending like Independence day is exactly what the Crucible does.

Modifié par o Ventus, 15 juin 2012 - 07:40 .

[Seival]

o Ventus wrote...

Seival wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

MacGuffin's aren't a good way to conclude what was a formerly epic trilogy.

That is all.

The Trilogy was Phylosophical from the beginning. Philosophical sci-fi stories can't end like some "War of the Worlds" or "Independence Day". I'm glad BioWare understand that.

No, the hell it wasn't. ME1 was pretty straightforward semi-hard SciFi. It only turned metaphysical and "philosophical" at the end of ME3.

And ending like Independence day is exactly what the Crucible does.

Disagree. All these organics-vs-synthetics things were in the game from the beginning. And the whole Trilogy was always about moral and philosophicaly-powered choices.

[Seival]

o Ventus wrote...

And ending like Independence day is exactly what the Crucible does.

No. Ending like "independence day" is about finding the enemy's hidden weakness, and exploiting it. Without any unexpected powerful outer intervention. "Independence day" scenarios are 100% predictable, and boring.

Crucible+Citadel+Catalist = DEM. And good DEMs are completely unpredictable.

[o Ventus]

Seival wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

Seival wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

MacGuffin's aren't a good way to conclude what was a formerly epic trilogy.

That is all.

The Trilogy was Phylosophical from the beginning. Philosophical sci-fi stories can't end like some "War of the Worlds" or "Independence Day". I'm glad BioWare understand that.

No, the hell it wasn't. ME1 was pretty straightforward semi-hard SciFi. It only turned metaphysical and "philosophical" at the end of ME3.

And ending like Independence day is exactly what the Crucible does.

Disagree. All these organics-vs-synthetics things were in the game from the beginning. And the whole Trilogy was always about moral and philosophicaly-powered choices.

The underlying theme of the story is different than the individual choices you make. Are you dense, or do you simply not understand?

There were 3 instances of synthetics vs. organics in the entirety of ME1. The geth, EDI, and the credit-thief AI. None of those 3 involved the synthetics suddenly becoming hostile to organics and wanting to wipe them out of existence.

At best, synthetics v organics is a minor subplot. It has never, ever been the main focus until the end of ME3.

Modifié par o Ventus, 15 juin 2012 - 11:09 .

[o Ventus]

Seival wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

And ending like Independence day is exactly what the Crucible does.

No. Ending like "independence day" is about finding the enemy's hidden weakness, and exploiting it. Without any unexpected powerful outer intervention. "Independence day" scenarios are 100% predictable, and boring.

Crucible+Citadel+Catalist = DEM. And good DEMs are completely unpredictable.

Independence Day concluded via Deus Ex Machina, you idiot.

DEM's, by the very definition of the ****ing term, are bad plot devices. They literally and objectively cannot be good.

[Peranor]

Seival wrote...

o Ventus wrote...

And ending like Independence day is exactly what the Crucible does.

No. Ending like "independence day" is about finding the enemy's hidden weakness, and exploiting it. Without any unexpected powerful outer intervention. "Independence day" scenarios are 100% predictable, and boring.

Crucible+Citadel+Catalist = DEM. And good DEMs are completely unpredictable.

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for reading it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[Jenonax]

Seival wrote...


Crucible+Citadel+Catalist = DEM. And good DEMs are completely unpredictable.

For the 333rd time, Seival, there is no such thing.  Please inform yourself about literary techniques before you go around using them.

[Seival]

Jenonax wrote...

Seival wrote...


Crucible+Citadel+Catalist = DEM. And good DEMs are completely unpredictable.

For the 333rd time, Seival, there is no such thing.  Please inform yourself about literary techniques before you go around using them.

For the 334th time, there are good DEMs. And even if there were no good DEMs before ME3, then ME3 made the very first one.

[Taboo]

Seival wrote...

Jenonax wrote...

Seival wrote...


Crucible+Citadel+Catalist = DEM. And good DEMs are completely unpredictable.

For the 333rd time, Seival, there is no such thing.  Please inform yourself about literary techniques before you go around using them.

For the 334th time, there are good DEMs. And even if there were no good DEMs before ME3, then ME3 made the very first one.

Not sure if serious...

 http://s3-ak.buzzfed...07655858-12.gif

[Joe Del Toro]

Seival wrote...

Jenonax wrote...

Seival wrote...


Crucible+Citadel+Catalist = DEM. And good DEMs are completely unpredictable.

For the 333rd time, Seival, there is no such thing.  Please inform yourself about literary techniques before you go around using them.

For the 334th time, there are good DEMs. And even if there were no good DEMs before ME3, then ME3 made the very first one.

For the 335th time shut up all of you oh my god

[The Night Mammoth]

Seival wrote...

For the 334th time, there are good DEMs. And even if there were no good DEMs before ME3, then ME3 made the very first one.

Please inform yourself about literary techniques before you go around using them, or discussing them.

Because evidently, you have no idea what a DEM is. At all. Because you think there is such a thing as a 'good' one. 

Your opinion on the matter is now worthless. Please come back when you have educated yourself on the matter. 

[o Ventus]

Seival wrote...

Jenonax wrote...

Seival wrote...


Crucible+Citadel+Catalist = DEM. And good DEMs are completely unpredictable.

For the 333rd time, Seival, there is no such thing.  Please inform yourself about literary techniques before you go around using them.

For the 334th time, there are good DEMs. And even if there were no good DEMs before ME3, then ME3 made the very first one.

Let me try something a little different. Ahem.

Ug. Bad thing bad. Good thing good. Bad thing no good. Good thing no bad. /caveman

Take a good, long look at this, and don't come back until you've read the entire thing.

Analogy time! Oxygen is oxygen. Objectively, it cannot be nitrogen. You can't just pretend oxygen is nitrogen, because nitrogen is nitrogen. It already occupies that niche.

Similarly, DEUS EX MACHINAS ARE LITERARY HORSE****.

Modifié par o Ventus, 16 juin 2012 - 06:35 .

[Taboo]

o Ventus wrote...

Similarly, DEUS EX MACHINAS ARE LITERARY HORSE****.

This.

It's like cancer. It isn't good, even if it's benign.

[GreyLycanTrope]

Joe Del Toro wrote...

Seival wrote...

Jenonax wrote...

Seival wrote...


Crucible+Citadel+Catalist = DEM. And good DEMs are completely unpredictable.

For the 333rd time, Seival, there is no such thing.  Please inform yourself about literary techniques before you go around using them.

For the 334th time, there are good DEMs. And even if there were no good DEMs before ME3, then ME3 made the very first one.

For the 335th time shut up all of you oh my god

It's alright Joe just ignore them, I'll just start my own thread were we do Vorcha productions of Shakespeare plays, how does that sound?

[Seival]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

Seival wrote...

For the 334th time, there are good DEMs. And even if there were no good DEMs before ME3, then ME3 made the very first one.

Please inform yourself about literary techniques before you go around using them, or discussing them.

Because evidently, you have no idea what a DEM is. At all. Because you think there is such a thing as a 'good' one. 

Your opinion on the matter is now worthless. Please come back when you have educated yourself on the matter. 

"A deus ex machina is a plot device whereby a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object."

...And ME3 ending fits this perfectly.