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How has your opinion on BioWare changed?


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#26
QuintSWE

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Before ME3 I considered Bioware one of the best rpg devolopers with a talent for creating interesting characters, after ME3 I consider Bioware one of the best rpg devolopers with a talent for creating interesting characters, so no, my view hasn't changed that much.

As far as the specific questions go:

- Day 1 DLC: From Ashes
As long as the game feels complete without the DLC, I'm fine with it. I did my first playthrough without "From Ashes" and I didn't feel like had was missing out on anything. For me second playthrough I got the DLC and I really liked it, so I would recomend everyone to get it, even if it isn't really required to get the complete "ME3 experience".

- Multiplayer
I don't mind them adding multiplayer to the game, but since that part doesn't interest me at all, I do wish they wouldn't have mixed it up with the singleplayer-campain. I don't want to have to do multiplayer (or use the iPad-app) just to get high enough EMS for the best ending.

- Single player campaign
i really enjoyed the singleplayer campain, can't remember the last game that had me so emotionally invested.

- ...the ending
I didn't mind the ending of the game, but I'm bored to death of threads regurgitating the same anti/pro-arguments about the endings over and over on these forums...

- The unreleased Extended Cut
I curious to see what they come up with. Since I didn't mind the current ending, I'm fine with them sticking to the current one and only expanding on it.

#27
The Mercenary55

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how do i feel about bioware, i feel they abandoned their loyal and hardcore rpg fans in favour of the mindless horde that is attracted to shooter games. me3 felt more linear than the other games and decisions didnt seem to carry weight. multiplayer further supports the fact they dumped their rpg fans in favour of new shooter players.

that is my opinion of bioware and me3, athough dont get me wrong i love me3 except for the ending and it not being as fleshed out as me1 and me2, and i enjoy the multiplayer but it seems like they sacrificed their rpg players for the horde of shooter players

Modifié par The Mercenary55, 14 mai 2012 - 04:50 .


#28
Jamie9

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Wow. Quite a few well-thought responses!

Firstly @Sauruz: I purposely left that out as I'm sure that would've just led to a flame war. I'm not attempting to ignore the fact that false advertising was present, I just don't think it would have helped the thread at all.

@Day 1 DLC argument: We should *always* argue against unethical business practices. Always. We live in a capitalist market and it's our responsibility as consumers to hold certain principles. It's up to each individual what they are.

I personally find Day 1 DLC disgusting. I can't solely put this on ME3, however. "Warden's Keep" for Dragon Age: Origins; "The Exiled Prince" for Dragon Age II. That content was made before release and thus should be included with the purchase of the game.

If they'd have made "From Ashes" a new game "exclusive", then that would have been fine in my eyes. Basically, do the Cerberus Network from ME2 again. I will definitely not buy BioWare's next game if Day 1 DLC exists, and everybody has to pay extra for it.

@Multiplayer: Eh, I personally didn't enjoy it and it DID take away dev time from the single player. It's horrendous that it affects the single player. That said, I wouldn't mind if the next BioWare game also had MP. I recognise that some people enjoy it, and I won't take away that enjoyment from them. Just don't make it affect the single player!

The single player and ending stuff I will go into later as that will require a bit of forethought for me on how I want to put it, and I'd like to see some more responses first. =D

#29
BigGuy28

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Yes, they used to be preorder soon as it's available without question for me. After Dragon Age 2 I became wary but would be willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Add the Mass Effect 3 "endings" to that and they are now only buy if most players give great reviews.

#30
Kia Purity

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- Day 1 DLC: From Ashes

Meh. I was kind of okay with this because it gave people a chance to be able to get a DLC that was free in Collector's Edition. (Honestly, there should NOT be a retailer exclusive DLC because that's so damn annoying.)

- Multiplayer

Didn't like the idea at first. Did find it fun. Pissed that the chat didn't work in demo. Even more pissed that it was removed entirely. HI, BIOWARE, I'M DEAF. HOW DO I TALK TO MY TEAMMATES?! Stupid.

- Single player campaign
Did like it but there were stuff that bugged me: Broken quest journal being one of them -- I was literally trying to kick my paragon score up so I wouldn't lose Kaidan somehow. That's right, I was going crazy because I needed Kaidan at my side! (Get the hell out, Diana Allers.)

- ...the ending
I took a break in middle of the game and found out about the ending. I couldn't go back to ME3 because I spent three days crying and being sick with grief over it. Then I forced myself to finish the game and I was just so numb by it all that I couldn't even go back to ME1 and ME2 at all. What was the point of playing the games?

- The unreleased Extended Cut
I have very low expectations for this because of how /some/ Bioware employees have called us whiners, insulted, berated, etc. Hi, guys, you're representing your company, be polite even if you don't agree with our reactions! They also were going to "stick with their artistic integrity" which insults me because I'm an artist and I ask for feedback on how to improve myself as an artist. What is so hard about asking for feedback? :(
And I'm under the impression that they won't fix the real problems with the game so, yeah, I don't expect anything to be "fixed" or "improved". This EC DLC is their last chance to redeem themselves.

Because really, at this point, the better developer would be Valve right now. Bioware used to be pretty damn up there with Valve with story telling standards but after ME3's ending, it's more like "...what happened?!"

Ugh, I never thought I'd get so burned this bad to the point that I decided to avoid preordering games from /any/ publishers until I know they're okay. :|

Modifié par Kia Purity, 14 mai 2012 - 04:50 .


#31
General Skidog

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Sellouts.

#32
squerldestroyer

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Subguy614 wrote...

There is a standing EA boycott at my house now. My son isn't even allowed to buy EA games.


THIS THIS THIS... I just recently got into the ME universe and cannot believe I overlooked these games. I played ME and ME2 last month and was really anticipating ME3. Then I started to read all the posts, stories, and reviews about ME3 and its ending. I was really on the fence about buying it at that point, but then I realized maybe I should buy it and form my own opinion. Well, like a majority of everyone else, I loved the gameplay right up until the last 10mins. I don't think I have ever been so disappointed in a game ending in my life. I now feel pissed at myself for being so naive to buy the game when all the warning signs were there. I blame Bioware to a point but EA's grimey, greedy fingers are all over this debacle. I will never buy another EA game, period.

#33
IntoTheDarkness

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Jamie9 wrote...

Mass Effect 3 has been a huge event in BioWare's history. Arguably one of their most anticipated games since their inception, nobody could have foreseen what ended up happening.

I'll get to the point: What is your opinion on BioWare as of now?

How do you feel about:

- Day 1 DLC: From Ashes
- Multiplayer
- Single player campaign
- ...the ending
- The unreleased Extended Cut


1. Don't mind at all.
2. Didn't need this.
3. Where is your story? Who wrote that xxxx?
4. Duh.
5. Should have charged it. Free-of-charge only downs the product quality.

#34
Jerjud45

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My opinion of Bioware has definitely changed. They are no longer my favorite developer, as the quality of their games has slowly diminished over the last few years. Mass Effect 3 was the most I have ever been disappointed by a game, and not just because of the ending.

I still pop into these forums every once in a while, and will continue to do so until the Extended Cut DLC is released. But I most likely will not be purchasing any more Bioware products in the future. I don't buy many games because I don't have much time to play, so it is not a difficult thing to strike a developer off my list. There are a lot of other great games to choose from.

#35
Jenrais

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 Played Mass effect 1

Jaw drops in awe

Played Dragon age Origins

Jaw drops further down

Played Mass effect 2


OMG OMG WTB MASS EFFECT 3

Played Dragon Age 2

Lazy..Lazy..Lazy

Played Mass effect 3

Really? What? Huh? Is this really Bioware

Hello Bethesda

#36
MnMH

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Certainly my opinion has changed. It started changing with ME2 and DA2. The first game in each of these franchises was amazing. Then, rather than fixing the few glaring problems with game play, the completely redesigned the games for their respective sequels. Were they trying to alienate their fan base?

I would also note that, since ME2, they've more or less given up on crafting compelling narratives. They've gone from one my favorite developers to one of my least favorite.

#37
delphonic

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My opinion of BioWare has absolutely changed

Much of this will depend on whether the ending DLC is confirmation of I.T. and therefore a prelude to Mass Effect 4. But even in that best case scenario the final parts of the game were clearly rushed and EA's evil influence is no doubt to blame.

I have decided to never again purchase an EA game regardless of the DLC. However, I will be willing to buy another BioWare/EA product if they can redeem themselves with Shepard's return in ME4.

Modifié par delphonic, 14 mai 2012 - 05:06 .


#38
Zuka999

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I don't think its going to get any better from here on out. They should just sell the Mass Effect IP to someone who can do it justice, because their writing team has changed way too much to understand what Drew Karypshyn was going for when he originally wrote up the majority of the universe.

#39
knightnblu

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The BioWare of today is no longer the BioWare of yesterday. Games like Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, and Knights of the Old Republic defined BioWare as a storyteller and as a gaming company. Since its acquisition by EA, there is no way that EA's money grubbing corporate culture has not had an effect on BioWare as a wholly owned subsidiary. Muzyka et. al., all have a boss to answer to and that boss expects things to progress a certain way and to be performed in a certain manner.
 
Policies have changed, culture has changed, and personnel have changed as a direct result of the purchase by EA. Therefore, the BioWare that we all knew is no longer in existence. It is a different animal and should be judged not on the past accomplishments of a company that no longer exists, but on what they have turned out since they were bought because that is the only fair metric.
 
The BioWare of today told me that I was going to get 16 wildly different endings based upon my choices across the franchise. I didn't get them. The BioWare of today didn't bother to check the new novel for continuity with the existing franchise and we all know the debacle that resulted from that. The BioWare of today remained silent for weeks as they decided how to handle fans that they considered to by entitled, whiney, brats who <gasp!> wanted to change their "art." While they certainly considered the  opinion of the low browed crowd's reaction to their glorious "art" to be a pity, they never the less decided to explain it to the cretins with expanded DLC. How thoughtful, perhaps the dullards will get it this time.
 
It is a bitter thing to see something that you once respected and admired consumed by commercial greed and a company that cares more for profit than for people. EA does not see the fans as customers or consumers or as people. We are nothing, but an ATM for EA and all that they care about is how much money they can squeeze from us and BioWare is nothing more than a cut out between us and EA that offers them armor from the angry fans.
 
How do I feel? I trust them about as far as I could toss my home and that isn't terribly far. There are still a lot of good people at BioWare and I am hoping that some of the aforementioned previous company exists so that we can get the mess at the end of ME3 cleaned up. But from this point forward I will take anything that comes from BioWare with a grain of salt. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

#40
Devbo22

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1. Didn't mind it.  I was getting the digital deluxe version with or without it.

2. I don't normally play MP, and was expecting to never play it.  However, I have had a lot of fun with it.  Extra points for bioware.

3. I greatly enjoyed the SP.  Gameplay was fun, stories were very impactful.

4. Didn't love the ending, but I thought it was adequate.  I've stopped putting a lot of emphasis on game endings because the ending of most games are not fulfilling to me.

5. Who knows what will become of the extended cut.  It could be awesome, it could be terrible, most likely it will be somewhere in between.  Granted, there are both positives and negatives to the fact that they are making it to begin with.  So I will say I'm neutral on this for now.

So overall, my opinion of bioware is the same or a little bit better than it was before based on the unexpected MP and all of the fun I had playing the SP.

#41
FlamingBoy

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the game did not live up to anything, it was just...... i don't even know.
what i do know is biowares reputation is damaged forever, not only there core fans going to remember it but those fans are going to make sure everyone else knows about it to

#42
delphonic

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knightnblu wrote...

The BioWare of today is no longer the BioWare of yesterday. Games like Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, and Knights of the Old Republic defined BioWare as a storyteller and as a gaming company. Since its acquisition by EA, there is no way that EA's money grubbing corporate culture has not had an effect on BioWare as a wholly owned subsidiary. Muzyka et. al., all have a boss to answer to and that boss expects things to progress a certain way and to be performed in a certain manner.
 
Policies have changed, culture has changed, and personnel have changed as a direct result of the purchase by EA. Therefore, the BioWare that we all knew is no longer in existence. It is a different animal and should be judged not on the past accomplishments of a company that no longer exists, but on what they have turned out since they were bought because that is the only fair metric.
 
The BioWare of today told me that I was going to get 16 wildly different endings based upon my choices across the franchise. I didn't get them. The BioWare of today didn't bother to check the new novel for continuity with the existing franchise and we all know the debacle that resulted from that. The BioWare of today remained silent for weeks as they decided how to handle fans that they considered to by entitled, whiney, brats who <gasp!> wanted to change their "art." While they certainly considered the  opinion of the low browed crowd's reaction to their glorious "art" to be a pity, they never the less decided to explain it to the cretins with expanded DLC. How thoughtful, perhaps the dullards will get it this time.
 
It is a bitter thing to see something that you once respected and admired consumed by commercial greed and a company that cares more for profit than for people. EA does not see the fans as customers or consumers or as people. We are nothing, but an ATM for EA and all that they care about is how much money they can squeeze from us and BioWare is nothing more than a cut out between us and EA that offers them armor from the angry fans.
 
How do I feel? I trust them about as far as I could toss my home and that isn't terribly far. There are still a lot of good people at BioWare and I am hoping that some of the aforementioned previous company exists so that we can get the mess at the end of ME3 cleaned up. But from this point forward I will take anything that comes from BioWare with a grain of salt. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.


Great post

Pretty much sums up my feelings as well

#43
Necrotron

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SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

I'll sum it up like this, they turned me from this Fry:

Posted Image

To this Fry:

Posted Image


Just about that.  I've merely lost the automatic trust I had in purchasing Bioware games I had before.  Now, everything will be wait for reviews and then purchase if good.

Mass Effect 3 is a well crafted game still, I just really question there story decisions and don't want to get myself into another depressing 100+ hour choose your own adventure again.

#44
incinerator950

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Jenrais wrote...
Hello Bethesda


lol wut?

Posted Image

#45
indyracing

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Jamie9 wrote...

Mass Effect 3 has been a huge event in BioWare's history. Arguably one of their most anticipated games since their inception, nobody could have foreseen what ended up happening.

I'll get to the point: What is your opinion on BioWare as of now?

How do you feel about:

- Day 1 DLC: From Ashes
- Multiplayer
- Single player campaign
- ...the ending
- The unreleased Extended Cut


I don't have a problem with day 1 DLC, but From Ashes shouldn't have been DLC, as it is pretty key (IMO) to the lore of ME (not that lore really matters when the game is over, though).

The MP is fun, but if for whatever reason this is why the game was delayed - it wasn't needed.

The SP is fun (until you know when), but I felt ME 3 had way too many cutscenes.  They were generally well done, but there were simply too many of them.

The end.  Um..no words other than worst ending to any story I've ever encountered in any form of storytelling.

Extended Cut - no idea how it will pan out.  I will play it because it's free, but that's all I can say right now.

Overall, though, if you count DA 2, TOR and ME 3 as "EA Bioware" games, Bioware games are, IMO, going downhill since EA bought them, and my opinion of Bioware has gone down, especially since experiencing the ending of ME 3 and the behavior of pretty much everyone at Bioware since.

I can't see myself ever paying money for a game that's had heavy involvement by Hudson, Gamble or Walters, and the idea that I have to follow various real life names on Twitter to know what happened in a video game that doesn't otherwise take place on Twitter is, I don't know, dumb?  I know I won't be paying for any more DLC for ME 3, and am VERY nervous about the actual quality of DA 3 (after DA 2 and ME 3).

They are a company I can no longer trust to make games that I will find enjoyable.

#46
savionen

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Definitely. They're handling all of this very poorly.

- Day 1 DLC: From Ashes
I don't have much of a beef with day one DLC, but I can't imagine playing ME3 without Javik. Only having what, 6 characters? Javik also adds a ton to the story, he obviously was one of the main characters. So taking him out, to sell him, is ridiculous.

- Multiplayer
I don't see any problems with it. It gets boring after awhile, but I don't think it detracted from single-player or anything. Only frustrating part is that it's required for a high EMS score.

- Single player campaign
Overall needed a bit of work in some areas, but it'd be excusable if there was a big payoff at the end, there wasn't.

- ...the ending
Obviously terrible.

- The unreleased Extended Cut
Really kind of scared of the direction this is going, and that's where I've lost respect for Bioware. At every turn it seems like Bioware is fighting their audience instead of trying to work with us. I can't remember the last time I had seen such arrogance from a AAA company, or insults towards an audience. Acting as if 60-80% of their audience are entitled brats instead of admitting that there might be a problem.

A lot of this could have easily been fixed. Telling us what the story was supposed to be, explaining it, answering questions, etc. Honestly they could have just had a Q&A session having the writers answer tons of questions and the ending would at least go from terrible to mediocre. But they're constantly pouring gasoline on the fire instead. Telling us that reviewers liked it, putting a spin on it, and acting as if we're morons. They've made mistakes that not even a small Indie game company would make and yet still blame the fans for it.

They're completely out of touch now.

Modifié par savionen, 14 mai 2012 - 05:52 .


#47
NUM13ER

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It's not so much BioWare, as it is how much I thought EA's influence was affecting them. Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 2 were great. Even the paid DLC like LotS and Overlord for ME2 was also of a high standard that you'd want to actually purchase. At first I naively thought thought EA bought them to make cash and was smart enough to let them do what they did best.

Eventually however I feel EA began to see BioWare as a cash cow to be milked at every given opportunity. And sure enough some cracks began to show with the stupidly short development cycle of Dragon Age II. EA feeling that taking time and effort wasn't as important as regular installments.

Then came the addition of online passes and multiplayer to a game that really didn't need multiplayer and that a sizable portion of it's fanbase didn't want. Entire resources dedicated not to enhancing a single player experience but creating a multiplayer mode to enhance revenues. All under the false pretense of trying to bring in new fans. Now we have a PR shut out from a company that once openly communicated with it's fans and that will almost certainly become new company practice in future.

Modifié par NUM13ER, 14 mai 2012 - 05:51 .


#48
Taboo

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I'm actually more amused now. They scramble to rectify a mistake on the highest levels of development.

Then the other employees just keep talking and they keep spreading the fire.

If anything it's re solidified in my thoughts that the gaming industry is just as foul as the movie industry.

#49
DirtyBird627

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I'll get to the point: What is your opinion on BioWare as of now?

They don't exist anymore, not like they used to.

- Day 1 DLC: From Ashes

It doesn't bother me that much to be honest. It's annoying but I can live with that annoyance.

- Multiplayer

It's fun for a bit, but I got bored of it pretty quickly.

- Single player campaign

Exceptional, I was going to call it the greatest I'd ever played until...

- ...the ending

The most disappointing waste of disk space I've ever seen.

- The unreleased Extended Cut

Polishing a turd, nothing to see here. I'd be very surprised if anything decent comes of this.

I'd like to give more detailed responses, but I've been harping on this stuff since i finished the game, I'm just tired of it now. They say the opposite of love isn't hate it's indifference, well congratulations to Bioware because I no longer care.

#50
J RoD824

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 For starters, I'm done with any games under the EA label, which won't be that big of a change for me. I was looking at my awesome game collection, and surprisingly I own only a few EA games. I wasn't planning on buying Dragon Age 3, I'm currently disgusted with Mass Effect, and Kingdoms of Amalur is fairly generic. The only series I think I will miss is Dead Space, but you know it's only a matter of time until EA butchers that one. Everyting that EA touches withers and dies.