215 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

Yes, it has changed. I support their work, and will invest myself in their future games, but it will forever be through a lens of suspicion of what they're intending to do instead of unguarded faith.

[liggy002]

It depends on what they do with the EC.  If it's just an explanation of the ending and not IT, then they are permanently on my s*** list.

[Goaliebot]

SolidisusSnake1 wrote...

I'll sum it up like this, they turned me from this Fry:



To this Fry:

This + over 9000.

[leapingmonkeys]

I've been buying computer games since the late 80's. I have a closet full of them. There have been great games, just-ok games, and disappointments. ME3 is the first game I've ever purchased where I feel that the publisher actively misrepresented the game to me. It is the first game ever, in about 30 years of buying video games, that I felt I was owed a refund.

In terms of Bioware, my opinion of them has gone downhill. I loved ME3. Then I loved DA:O. DA:Awakening was sufficiently disappointing that I never did buy DA2. Now ME3 was sold to me under false pretenses. The quality of the games seems to be steadily decreasing and showing increasing signs of rushed production and less care and depth.

I think Bioware had vision and a passion for creating RPG games and somehow they are losing both.

Modifié par leapingmonkeys, 15 mai 2012 - 03:06 .

[StevenG_CT]

leapingmonkeys wrote...
I think Bioware had vision and a passion for creating RPG games and somehow they are losing both.

Considering how megacorps like EA tend to have a penchant for treating their employees like crap I wonder how many Bioware employees remain from the "glory days" and how many have moved on to greener pastures. At some point when enough of the old guard have left it's just not the same company anymore.

[BackwardsMan4TW]

Jamie9 wrote...

Mass Effect 3 has been a huge event in BioWare's history. Arguably one of their most anticipated games since their inception, nobody could have foreseen what ended up happening.

I'll get to the point: What is your opinion on BioWare as of now?

How do you feel about:

- Day 1 DLC: From Ashes
- Multiplayer
- Single player campaign
- ...the ending
- The unreleased Extended Cut

Well, the ending was leaked, so it was foreseen in a way.

My opinion of Bioware has changed in that I know not to get my hopes as high for their future games. They still make great games, ME3 being one of them, but now I know that they can get a very important aspect of the story (the ending) very wrong (at least, in my opinion.)

Other than the ending, I didn't have too many qualms with the game. Day 1 DLC didn't really bother me too much, i love the multiplayer, and single player was great until the last five minutes.

I'll have to wait for a complete judgement on EC, but I think the best that it can do is make the ending bearable and okay-ish. Even if they can give us closure and show that our choices actually mattered, the ending still doesn't quite fit. Sure the theme of synthetics vs. organics has been present, but it didn't come across as the most prominant theme. (The main theme of the game seemed to revolve more around diverse people coming together to defeat a common foe.)

[darthoptimus003]

they have BETRAYED alot of fans
im one that felt betrayed
said one thing gave another'if the EC fails {which probably will} than im going to quit them fast
but if they do manage to FIX THIS ENDING than i will stay a fan but make damned sure that i wait for the reviews of upcomings so i dont get screwed like i did with ME3

[MakeMineMako]

Jamie9 wrote...

Mass Effect 3 has been a huge event in BioWare's history. Arguably one of their most anticipated games since their inception, nobody could have foreseen what ended up happening.

I'll get to the point: What is your opinion on BioWare as of now?

How do you feel about:

- Day 1 DLC: From Ashes
- Multiplayer
- Single player campaign
- ...the ending
- The unreleased Extended Cut

The Day One DLC didn't bother me so much, since I got the CE. Multi-player had me concerned at first, since multi-player has overshadowed single player in gaming for the last five years or so, often at the expense of story quality and campaign lengths. But fortunately that didn't happen with ME3.

As for multi-player itself, co-op was the best route to go. But making multiplayer too integral with single player, and the sh*tty shopping set-up (with it's randomness), hurt the game's MP in my opinion.

The single player campaign was decent, with a few stumbles here and there. There could, however, have been a little more "meat" to it. Even if it took three-plus discs to do it.

The ending (and note I used the singular) blew goats. As to why things went to sh*t in the last parts of the game, I will never figure it out.

When I sit down and actually think about it, I don't think the EC will solve anything. It will "fix" very little. It might make the ending a little less distasteful. But that will be the extent of it. "Clarification and closure" will not resolve the biggest issues with the end of the game. Only a re-write of the ending will do that.

However, Bioware refuses to do so all in the name of "artistic integrity" and "artistic vision". Which means, in all likelyhood, that when it comes to future paid DLC, I will have no choice but to maintain the "monetary integrity" of my wallet and "financial vision" of my bank account/credit cards.

As for Bioware itself, the Mass Effect franchise was the only Bioware title I ever played or cared anything about. But after getting a big bite in the ass that cost me nearly two hundred bucks, I have lost any trust I had in this developer. On my end, the merchant/customer bond has been broken.

One good thing has come out of this for me, though. I have no high expectations of Bioware anymore, rating them no better than other developers nowadays. Which means, if I buy any future Bioware titles used or on sale, I won't go into it expecting them to move mountains with a new release. I will expect the same quality as I expect from most of the others: quality ranging from decent to crap, instead of awesome and full of win.

Too bad. Bioware was a great dev studio at one time, full of that awesome and win. Whether it was overconfidence or Electronic Arts that pushed them down that road, it ultimately doesn't matter. What matters is that the damage is done with this fiasco. Now, it's up to them if the lessons learned can push them to make changes for the better.

Modifié par MakeMineMako, 15 mai 2012 - 03:50 .

[brusher225]

Jamie9 wrote...

Mass Effect 3 has been a huge event in BioWare's history. Arguably one of their most anticipated games since their inception, nobody could have foreseen what ended up happening.

I'll get to the point: What is your opinion on BioWare as of now?

How do you feel about:

- Day 1 DLC: From Ashes
- Multiplayer
- Single player campaign
- ...the ending
- The unreleased Extended Cut

-As others have stated, BioWare has went from number 1 to 0 on my list of favorite devs. If they don't somehow fix that atrosity of an ending, BioWare will no longer exist to me.  

The day 1 DLC was ok with me until I saw the horrible ending. Now it feels like a dirty trick.

-I don't mind that they ended the trilogy. Just how it ended. Even though I would've loved for ME to go on and on. But that would be an unreasonalble expectation. I can't hate on BioWare for ending the trilogy like they said they would all along.

-The EC? I don't see how they're going to make it work within the confines of the current ending, (not adding too), but I'm giving it a chance. We shall see. But even if I like it, that still wouldn't excuse the lies. I will never trust another word they say. Not without an apology.

-Edit: I wish you would've had "having to play MP to get the very best ending?" in your list. I would've said: "it is pretty sorry to pull a stunt like that on ME fans who have been following the franchise for 5 years. What a dirty trick just to get people to play MP. Although that dirty trick has EA written all over it."

Modifié par brusher225, 15 mai 2012 - 05:14 .

[Forsythia]

- The DLC was clearly cut from the main game, or at least it was decided early on to release this as 1 day DLC. Should've been in the game for everyone.
- Multiplayer: I don't like it, not because it's bad, but because we were clearly told it wouldn't affect the singleplayer at all. Well, seems we can't get the best ending (Shep alive) without it.
- The singleplayer is great, although there are some flaws, like Tali's face and less choices. They didn't even try with Tali, while a useless character like Allers gets a modeled face. What gives? Priorities?!
- The ending is obviously the worst, I cannot even understand that 99% of the game was awesome, but the last 10 minutes are the worst I have ever encountered in gaming.
- The EC hasn't been released yet, but as it's not going to change the ending, I don't have much hopes for it.

Then there are other things that I find greatly disappointing:
- 3558925092 promotional items, from retailer exclusive DLC to extra weapons
- ME3 not on Steam: great, let us buy the first 2 games on that platform, but not the third. The thing that's keeping ME3 from Steam is obviously the microtransactions for multiplayer. EA doesn't want Valve to get a cut from those. That's fair, it's their game after all, but don't give us such a bull**** explanation about it, like 'communicating with the players'. You don't communicate at all, the only thing we hear is 'we're listening' without actually doing something about the problems.
- And that gets me to the final part: BioWare is treating that fanbase like ****. They tell us they're listening, but they don't do anything instead of closing threads (4000+ EMS requirement, face import bug) or making crap remarks about people not 'getting' the ending.

But BioWare doesn't seem to care about these points, after all, '75 perfect scores!' and 'artistic integrity!'.

Modifié par Forsythia, 15 mai 2012 - 05:39 .

[SteJo6sic6]

I don't really hold Bioware to as high a standard as I did before this for a couple of reasons, the way they basically lied about what the game was going to be pre-release and the way they have handled the whole situation post release. It seems like "Artistic Integrity" just became a way to shield themselves from legit criticism. The worse thing that can happen to a company like Bioware (who imo were the closest video game company to creating real art) is they start to believe their own hype (whether it's deserved or not).

On the other things the OP brought up

1. The day 1 DLC for this game was complete BS. I'm not against bringing out DLC on the same day as release but the fact that the protheans were a key component of the ME lore is was sours it for me. If they had taken out Chobot out and made her the DLC I wouldn't have had a problem with it. The same kind of way that Zaeed was in ME2.

2. I honestly like the multiplayer it's fun. I just don't like that you need to play it to get your EMS up to 4k. (Lies by Bioware)

3. The campaign was great for the most part and had some parts that were so amazing (Tuchanka & Rannoch) but in other parts it just felt like they didn't care anymore. I'm talking about most of the side quests being ok go to this system scan the planet get the artifact go back to the citadel, rinse and repeat.

4. The ending sucked.

5. I'm still holding out hope for the DLC. Can't really form an opinion on it till I play it and see what is there exactly.

[MordicaiBlack]

definatly, I used to consider them a part of the three b's, bioware, blizzard, and bethesda. three game makers I truely thought could do no wrong

and now i just don't think of bioware that way anymore...

[Leftyguy]

Badly. The EC has one chance to fix my now extremely negative opinion. If it fails then I will never shill their games to my friends again and will (somewhat regretfully) be trading in all my Bioware games and wiping them from my hard drive.

DA2 was disappointing. ME3 almost made up for it. Then the end happened. Fool me once...

Modifié par Leftyguy, 15 mai 2012 - 06:44 .

[Optimus J]

In my opinion they went from a bunch of perverted drunkards that made games we love to bunch of Chris Pirestlys.

[RukiaKuchki]

Jamie9 wrote...

Mass Effect 3 has been a huge event in BioWare's history. Arguably one of their most anticipated games since their inception, nobody could have foreseen what ended up happening.

I'll get to the point: What is your opinion on BioWare as of now?

How do you feel about:

- Day 1 DLC: From Ashes
- Multiplayer
- Single player campaign
- ...the ending
- The unreleased Extended Cut

While I sympathise with many of the points discussed, the DLC one I just do not. DLC is a mainstay of current gaming. Accept it. Why? Two simple reasons. The main one - companies only see a relatively small proportion of the income from their games due to people sharing games, buying them second hand or simply stealing. People won't stop stealing. Downloading without paying is theft. All of these things hurt a company's revenue, which in turn affects their borrowing/spending power and ability to develop new games. There is this pervasive attitude that stealing from big companies like EA is ok, they can afford it. So what if they can? How 'big' must a company be before you're morally allowed to steal from them? What about you? If you earn more money than me, does that me I have a moral right to go into your home and take your belongings because you can afford to replace them? The second reason for DLC is simply because people want to extend their experience. When the main campaign is finished, they often want more. And why shouldn't they pay for that privilidge? It costs money to develop this additional content. Again, that horrible 'entitlement' word springs to mind. Gaming is an expensive hobby and games are a luxury item. You are no more entitled to a game than you are to demand training to be an astronaut from NASA. If you cannot afford the additional content, well, I'm sorry to be mean, but boo-hoo for you. This is the way the world works. 

[TiminatorT2000]

RukiaKuchki wrote...


While I sympathise with many of the points discussed, the DLC one I just do not. DLC is a mainstay of current gaming. Accept it. Why? Two simple reasons. The main one - companies only see a relatively small proportion of the income from their games due to people sharing games, buying them second hand or simply stealing.

 

I live with my roomate who owns a xbox and a ****load of games and barely share them, both of us own a copy of me3. Second hand games encourage sales, and the games industry is doing fine, even great as awhole this argument lack merit for me.

RukiaKuchki wrote...
People won't stop stealing. Downloading without paying is theft. All of these things hurt a company's revenue, which in turn affects their borrowing/spending power and ability to develop new games. There is this pervasive attitude that stealing from big companies like EA is ok, they can afford it. So what if they can? How 'big' must a company be before you're morally allowed to steal from them? What about you? If you earn more money than me, does that me I have a moral right to go into your home and take your belongings because you can afford to replace them? 

  

Pirating is not theft , It's copyright infringment. Your argueing against basic law and definitions here.Although it dose hurt a company's revenue, just not by much.

I Don't want to get into the whole moral or not arguement so I'll just stay away from that bit.





 

RukiaKuchki wrote... 
The second reason for DLC is simply because people want to extend their experience. When the main campaign is finished, they often want more. And why shouldn't they pay for that privilidge? 

With this line of reasoning every single side quest and character should have been dlc.Imagine if you had to pay for for every character except Miranda/Mordin and Jacob in ME2. In ME3 all of the cererbus side missions and multiplayer would have been dlc .

Basically if everyone had your attitude gaming corporations would rob us blind. Complaining about prices or the cost of extra content is a basic part of the process of capitalism, if I don't like a company's practice I have a right to complain about it and potentially boycott there products.



 

RukiaKuchki wrote 
It costs money to develop this additional content. Again, that horrible 'entitlement' word springs to mind. Gaming is an expensive hobby and games are a luxury item. You are no more entitled to a game than you are to demand training to be an astronaut from NASA. If you cannot afford the additional content, well, I'm sorry to be mean, but boo-hoo for you. This is the way the world works. 

Entitlement is a loaded term that can be used as an argument for anything. I could call you entitled because you expect to get a burger made in Mdonalds in less then 5 minutes , or you expect the kethup and mustard to be free.

"Hey the mustard and Kecthup cost more to make , why shouldn't you be charged for it. That's just the way the world works !"

But I'd argue entitlement is a good thing , it's the reason why people in first  world country's can expect medical care and treatment no matter there social standing.Or why in general the rich pay more taxes and most good country's have generous social programs. Or hell why were going to get a extended ending for free.

Entitlement is one of the general reasons why the average human beings now have's a better standard of living then a king did 500 years ago.

[Ksandor]

Sohlito wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

nothing has changed there a buisness and you cant really argue how there doing it imo


i do however have a change of thought on the fanbase though

Please explain why we can't argue unethical business practices?

Not everyone is a sheep you know.

Was going to ask the exact same thing. No offense to Tazz, but that is a rather stupid notion.

In fact Taz I can argue about it because we are customers. If we don't buy your product you go bankrupt. So to sum it up in the way you could understand (since you don't care business ethics), you can't dictate me but we will always dictate you. Without fanbase you are nothing. Not a thing. Money talks, good marketing won't sell bad products because there are too many of them competing, watch and learn.

Modifié par Ksandor, 15 mai 2012 - 08:03 .

[Joccaren]

Jamie9 wrote...
How do you feel about:

- Day 1 DLC: From Ashes

DGAF

- Multiplayer

DGAF

- Single player campaign

Poor

- ...the ending

Terrible

- The unreleased Extended Cut

Last hope, low chance of success.

[Elric70]

Jamie9 wrote...

Mass Effect 3 has been a huge event in BioWare's history. Arguably one of their most anticipated games since their inception, nobody could have foreseen what ended up happening.

I'll get to the point: What is your opinion on BioWare as of now?

How do you feel about:

- Day 1 DLC: From Ashes
- Multiplayer
- Single player campaign
- ...the ending
- The unreleased Extended Cut

My opinion of Bioware has declined, I think perhaps the people that wanted to make games, that they would enjoy have moved on. Unfortunately most likely it has to do with the addition of EA, since usually the culture is set by the top. You have a good boss runing things and they run smoothly, and he hires people that promote his ideals, you an idiot running things and he puts his "great ideas" into play. It always trickles down.

I believe that the Day 1 DLC was a money grab, the same way everyone in Hollywood keeps hitting the "3D" button, it's just a way to squeeze people for an extra few bucks. I think the DLC is pretty much central to adding dimension to the story, further more I would say since ME3 neuters you so much on having biotics in your team you would be in even worse shape, assuming you did not play a biotic Shepard, and if you killed Kaidan way back when. This wouldn't have mattered if you know, you actually had access to Wrex, or Miranda, or Jack, or Samara, but since they only had walk on cameos since they couldn't be added as permanent members. Sorry getting sidetracked on one of my perceived failures with the game.

Multiplayer, is fun if a bit repetitive, and made me kick Microsoft some cash since I had never bought live gold before on general principle. Imagine my surprise when even my 100% readiness did not give me any ending worth having.

Single player campaign as mentioned by many was more linear than I would have liked, lacked an even more expanded character list than I felt should have been. I thought way back when that one of the big challenges would be to figure out who to bring with me since hopefully all my ME1 and ME2 squad mates would be useable, or most, I hoped. It did have it's high points Rannoch, and the cure, but also had critical failures like your  terribad quest tracking, and eaves dropping to get all these "currier/gather" quests that I had a hard time figuring out when I had what I needed, and who the heck wanted item x.

The ending, or as I like to call it __________ending goes here. It's so bad they might as well have used  70's pohrn music and had psychedellic lights flashing.That would be "arsty" too. If you're going to crib and ending crib from Lord of the Rings, or Return of the Jedi, not Matrix 3.

Which brings us to the EC, which in movies is usually the Director's Cut, but apparently, NO ONE else wants to put their name in any way shape or form connected to this disappointing game. I really don't expect anything that I will care much about. After lurking more than posting all these months, all I see is a lot of nothing. The only talk I have seen is from other Bioware Dev teams, not even the one responsible for this sad state of affairs. All I want to know is, can I get my other 13 endings now? No, 13 other different colored explosions don't count either! You should have gotten Michael Bay to direct this, he's all about the explosions.

Hey, I know, let's have the Scooby Doo ending, we'll grab the Starkid, pull his mask off and it will be Harbinger. Might as well bring in Velma as a DLC character, cause who doesn't want a geeky, curvy, cutie girl to go ZOIKS! at the appropriate moment?

[httinks2006]

Forsythia wrote...

- The DLC was clearly cut from the main game, or at least it was decided early on to release this as 1 day DLC. Should've been in the game for everyone.
- Multiplayer: I don't like it, not because it's bad, but because we were clearly told it wouldn't affect the singleplayer at all. Well, seems we can't get the best ending (Shep alive) without it.
- The singleplayer is great, although there are some flaws, like Tali's face and less choices. They didn't even try with Tali, while a useless character like Allers gets a modeled face. What gives? Priorities?!
- The ending is obviously the worst, I cannot even understand that 99% of the game was awesome, but the last 10 minutes are the worst I have ever encountered in gaming.
- The EC hasn't been released yet, but as it's not going to change the ending, I don't have much hopes for it.

Then there are other things that I find greatly disappointing:
- 3558925092 promotional items, from retailer exclusive DLC to extra weapons
- ME3 not on Steam: great, let us buy the first 2 games on that platform, but not the third. The thing that's keeping ME3 from Steam is obviously the microtransactions for multiplayer. EA doesn't want Valve to get a cut from those. That's fair, it's their game after all, but don't give us such a bull**** explanation about it, like 'communicating with the players'. You don't communicate at all, the only thing we hear is 'we're listening' without actually doing something about the problems.
- And that gets me to the final part: BioWare is treating that fanbase like ****. They tell us they're listening, but they don't do anything instead of closing threads (4000+ EMS requirement, face import bug) or making crap remarks about people not 'getting' the ending.

But BioWare doesn't seem to care about these points, after all, '75 perfect scores!' and 'artistic integrity!'.

+1000

[milena87]

My opinion of the DA team is pretty much the same as before: they make good but flawed games that I enjoy (except DAO DLCs... dear god they were awful).

My opinion on the ME team however... let's just say that, unless the EC turns out to be really awesome, I'm not considering playing any of their future games. I liked a lot of things about ME3 that made me overlook some glaring flaws and, overall, I enjoyed it more than ME2. Then the ending showed me that I shouldn't have cared about Mass Effect at all.

I didn't like the inclusion of multiplayer: a stand-alone game would have been better for me. It wasn't really bad, but it felt forced and pointless. And I really don't like the fact that you need it to get the "best" ending.

I had the CE for ME3, but I still don't agree with this new DLC practice: DLCs like Shale for DAO or Zaeed for ME2 make sense, because it's an incentive against used copies; Sebastian for DA2 and Javik for ME3 are just wrong.

[Shajar]

Well there was never many game companies i respected.

I quess Valve and Bioware + some few others got my trust and respect. But now? Bioware is just dead and old wind for me

Modifié par Shajar, 15 mai 2012 - 10:10 .

[httinks2006]

RukiaKuchki wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

Mass Effect 3 has been a huge event in BioWare's history. Arguably one of their most anticipated games since their inception, nobody could have foreseen what ended up happening.

I'll get to the point: What is your opinion on BioWare as of now?

How do you feel about:

- Day 1 DLC: From Ashes
- Multiplayer
- Single player campaign
- ...the ending
- The unreleased Extended Cut

While I sympathise with many of the points discussed, the DLC one I just do not. DLC is a mainstay of current gaming. Accept it. Why? Two simple reasons. The main one - companies only see a relatively small proportion of the income from their games due to people sharing games, buying them second hand or simply stealing. People won't stop stealing. Downloading without paying is theft. All of these things hurt a company's revenue, which in turn affects their borrowing/spending power and ability to develop new games. There is this pervasive attitude that stealing from big companies like EA is ok, they can afford it. So what if they can? How 'big' must a company be before you're morally allowed to steal from them? What about you? If you earn more money than me, does that me I have a moral right to go into your home and take your belongings because you can afford to replace them? The second reason for DLC is simply because people want to extend their experience. When the main campaign is finished, they often want more. And why shouldn't they pay for that privilidge? It costs money to develop this additional content. Again, that horrible 'entitlement' word springs to mind. Gaming is an expensive hobby and games are a luxury item. You are no more entitled to a game than you are to demand training to be an astronaut from NASA. If you cannot afford the additional content, well, I'm sorry to be mean, but boo-hoo for you. This is the way the world works. 

You need to get off your high and mighty horse for one thing , then you might  see you have no clue why people are mad about the dlc day one release . I ll explain it to you since it seemed to have gone over your head in your throne above us all.
Personally I had the content because I bought the collectors edition of the game , though I 100% disagree that it was not a crucial part of the experience , it's been in the lore since ME1 and was clearly a way to milk the fans  for even more money .

Characters like Kasumi , Zaeed were not ,those are examples of squadmates that just extend your squad choices with opportunities to earn more experience, weapons, paragon or renegade points ,and more side missions .

So in your opinion Since Companies are so poor in which thieving consumers are to blame it's ok in your view for them to sell us a game system but not include the controller and sell it as an extra so we can actually play games on it?
Then you want to also assert that there are so many friends lending games to one another that it's breaking the back of  the companies profits.... true companies don't see  used sales revenue , though the hardcore base fans buys the product new day one usually if the brand puts out exceptional games .....and by word of mouth our friends and the consumer buying used games it may in turn into possibly buying the next installement day one if they had a great gaming experience with the used or lent copy of the game.

The only entitlement I see is your belief that you feel the need to defend the corporation blunders of releasing an unfinished , deceptive product that people took a postion on to complain about and said no more we want what was promised to us. and to quote you if you don't like that  " well not to be mean , boo hoo for you"

[TheGreatDayne]

I've played a total of three games from Bioware, so I don't really have much of an opinion...

I bought the Collectors Edition, so it came with the music... I mean, Javik (but seriously, the game OST can easily convince me to buy CE).

Multiplayer is fun, because it is coop, and it gives me a chance to play a race that isn't human (if they ever make a Mass Effect prequel, let it take place sometime before the first contact, so I could play as other races... that will be fun)

Singleplayer was... lacking... I don't know what, but it felt like it was missing something... And Liara should have been killable! I have nothing against her, but it would have been so emotional for my Shepard to romance her, and see her die!

The ending could have had a better delivery. I don't mind those endings, but they should have delivered it better! In fact, I care less about the ending, the beginning could have been better. Okay, I don't have experience with story making, so I have no idea how to make either better....

As for extended cut... well, no opinion... I hope they make other DLCs after, though. I need missions that can increase my war assets, in case I play this game 5 years from now, and the multiplayer server is down.