i'll still buy their games just no longer day 1 purchases or ce's
gonna be waiting for bargain binning then i'll buy bioware games
How has your opinion on BioWare changed?
Débuté par
Jamie9
, mai 14 2012 03:50
Retour en haut
#177
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 10:08
KotorEffect3
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- 9 416 messages
Interesting how the hive mentality can take over and turn people against something.
#178
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 10:43
RukiaKuchki
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- 524 messages
TiminatorT2000: I live with my roomate who owns a xbox and a ****load of games and barely share them, both of us own a copy of me3. Second hand games encourage sales, and the games industry is doing fine, even great as awhole this argument lack merit for me.
Second hand games do not make money for the developers. It may generate publicity, but not money. If money does not go back to developers, developers cut staff/resources and reduce output. Not so difficult to understand is it? If the game industry is doing so great, why are game sales the lowest in a decade? Why are so many studios being closed? Why have so many jobs been lost recently at Sega, THQ, Zipper to name but a few? Some companies are obviously making money, but many are failing terribly. Times are not good. Ignorance is nothing to be proud of.
TiminatorT2000 wrote...Pirating is not theft , It's copyright infringment. Your argueing against basic law and definitions here.Although it dose hurt a company's revenue, just not by much.
I Don't want to get into the whole moral or not arguement so I'll just stay away from that bit.
You can hide behind semantics, but it is still theft.
TiminatorT2000 wrote...
With this line of reasoning every single side quest and character should have been dlc.Imagine if you had to pay for for every character except Miranda/Mordin and Jacob in ME2. In ME3 all of the cererbus side missions and multiplayer would have been dlc .
Basically if everyone had your attitude gaming corporations would rob us blind. Complaining about prices or the cost of extra content is a basic part of the process of capitalism, if I don't like a company's practice I have a right to complain about it and potentially boycott there products.
You are just being wilfully silly to make a non-point. You do not need any of the additional content to have a complete experience. If you wish to extend your experience, then you have to pay for it. Like it or not, this is where gaming is going.
Nowhere in my text did it say you have no right to complain. But, if you choose to complain in a public forum, expect people in that public forum to call you out on it for being a silly billy.
TiminatorT2000 wrote...
Entitlement is a loaded term that can be used as an argument for anything. I could call you entitled because you expect to get a burger made in Mdonalds in less then 5 minutes , or you expect the kethup and mustard to be free.
"Hey the mustard and Kecthup cost more to make , why shouldn't you be charged for it. That's just the way the world works !"
But I'd argue entitlement is a good thing , it's the reason why people in first world country's can expect medical care and treatment no matter there social standing.Or why in general the rich pay more taxes and most good country's have generous social programs. Or hell why were going to get a extended ending for free.
Entitlement is one of the general reasons why the average human beings now have's a better standard of living then a king did 500 years ago.
You are one of many that persists to (knowingly) misinterpret the concept of entitlement. Please refer to a dictionary for a definition and examples. Using the MacDonalds analogy, expecting my burger to be ready in 5 minutes is not entitlement - it is expectation. However, if I wanted an additional burger between those buns - and perhaps a slice of bacon - I would have to pay for it. I shouldn't get it for free just because it's sitting there waiting on the hotplate.
Entitlement with respect to social welfare, education and medical care are not comparable to entitlement with downloadable game content. Silly, silly comparison. Social welfare, education and medical care are not luxury items. They are necessities that you are fortunate enough to have access to. Games are luxury items. You do not need them, and you have no automatic right to have access to them.
(Edited to sort out horrible quote formatting!)
Second hand games do not make money for the developers. It may generate publicity, but not money. If money does not go back to developers, developers cut staff/resources and reduce output. Not so difficult to understand is it? If the game industry is doing so great, why are game sales the lowest in a decade? Why are so many studios being closed? Why have so many jobs been lost recently at Sega, THQ, Zipper to name but a few? Some companies are obviously making money, but many are failing terribly. Times are not good. Ignorance is nothing to be proud of.
TiminatorT2000 wrote...Pirating is not theft , It's copyright infringment. Your argueing against basic law and definitions here.Although it dose hurt a company's revenue, just not by much.
I Don't want to get into the whole moral or not arguement so I'll just stay away from that bit.
You can hide behind semantics, but it is still theft.
TiminatorT2000 wrote...
With this line of reasoning every single side quest and character should have been dlc.Imagine if you had to pay for for every character except Miranda/Mordin and Jacob in ME2. In ME3 all of the cererbus side missions and multiplayer would have been dlc .
Basically if everyone had your attitude gaming corporations would rob us blind. Complaining about prices or the cost of extra content is a basic part of the process of capitalism, if I don't like a company's practice I have a right to complain about it and potentially boycott there products.
You are just being wilfully silly to make a non-point. You do not need any of the additional content to have a complete experience. If you wish to extend your experience, then you have to pay for it. Like it or not, this is where gaming is going.
Nowhere in my text did it say you have no right to complain. But, if you choose to complain in a public forum, expect people in that public forum to call you out on it for being a silly billy.
TiminatorT2000 wrote...
Entitlement is a loaded term that can be used as an argument for anything. I could call you entitled because you expect to get a burger made in Mdonalds in less then 5 minutes , or you expect the kethup and mustard to be free.
"Hey the mustard and Kecthup cost more to make , why shouldn't you be charged for it. That's just the way the world works !"
But I'd argue entitlement is a good thing , it's the reason why people in first world country's can expect medical care and treatment no matter there social standing.Or why in general the rich pay more taxes and most good country's have generous social programs. Or hell why were going to get a extended ending for free.
Entitlement is one of the general reasons why the average human beings now have's a better standard of living then a king did 500 years ago.
You are one of many that persists to (knowingly) misinterpret the concept of entitlement. Please refer to a dictionary for a definition and examples. Using the MacDonalds analogy, expecting my burger to be ready in 5 minutes is not entitlement - it is expectation. However, if I wanted an additional burger between those buns - and perhaps a slice of bacon - I would have to pay for it. I shouldn't get it for free just because it's sitting there waiting on the hotplate.
Entitlement with respect to social welfare, education and medical care are not comparable to entitlement with downloadable game content. Silly, silly comparison. Social welfare, education and medical care are not luxury items. They are necessities that you are fortunate enough to have access to. Games are luxury items. You do not need them, and you have no automatic right to have access to them.
(Edited to sort out horrible quote formatting!)
Modifié par RukiaKuchki, 15 mai 2012 - 11:19 .
#179
Guest_simfamUP_*
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 10:52
Guest_simfamUP_*
Guest_simfamUP_*
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- Guests
KotorEffect3 wrote...
Interesting how the hive mentality can take over and turn people against something.
Some people have very valid points. But the 'hive mind' thing is especially true. It has an effect on everyone. Especially me.
I find that taking a break here and reflecting on your own thoughts will do you much better. The agnst is addictive, and pretty soon you'll be condeming BioWare to death for ruining ME3 with disingenuous assertions.
This backlash is big, mostly due to the unsatisfying ending. But it seems the anger has spread onto all over the game. And when it was once "90% awesome 10% sucks." It's now "mediocre," "flawed to no end," "just terrible," "4/10," "metacritic speaks true!"
Personally... it bothers me. But it bothers me more when people turn sides so quickly. Unlike user 'x,' who's had a pretty neutral stance on BioWare since 'x.' User 'y' now claims that BioWare suxxx shortly after saying it ruled.
#180
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 11:12
Jayleia
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- Members
- 403 messages
Jamie9 wrote...
- Day 1 DLC: From Ashes
Probably should have been made as part of the game. Keep Day 1 DLC as extra outfits and such.
- Multiplayer
Kinda fun, but shouldn't be necessary to get a "perfect" ending in SP.
- Single player campaign
Suitably grim but monotonously grim, but good in most places (Rannoch and Tuchanka rank up there with Suicide Mission with me). I would have whipsawed emotions a lot more, and really gotten into the horror of Reapers
Exploration was stupid, and the Reapers in the minigame were craptastic art
The Kai Leng bossfight on Thessia was boring.
Most of Priority: Earth should have been ejected and remade...I kinda expected to see a scene somewhat resembling the scene in the trailer. And with a Suicide Mission style mechanic to decide what resources you have to retake earth.
- ...the ending
A pack of badly explained speciesist nonsense that results in three choices, all of which are thematically revolting, violate basic, well-established lore...
- The unreleased Extended Cut
I'm hoping that it will be Rannoch Quality, expecting it to be the same ending, just with more words. (making a bigger crap sandwich does NOT make a crap sandwich taste better). I also expect to uninstall Origin and ME3 immediately after playing the EC.
#181
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 11:14
RukiaKuchki
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- Members
- 524 messages
httinks2006 wrote...
You need to get off your high and mighty horse for one thing , then you might see you have no clue why people are mad about the dlc day one release . I ll explain it to you since it seemed to have gone over your head in your throne above us all.
Personally I had the content because I bought the collectors edition of the game , though I 100% disagree that it was not a crucial part of the experience , it's been in the lore since ME1 and was clearly a way to milk the fans for even more money .
Characters like Kasumi , Zaeed were not ,those are examples of squadmates that just extend your squad choices with opportunities to earn more experience, weapons, paragon or renegade points ,and more side missions .
So in your opinion Since Companies are so poor in which thieving consumers are to blame it's ok in your view for them to sell us a game system but not include the controller and sell it as an extra so we can actually play games on it?
Then you want to also assert that there are so many friends lending games to one another that it's breaking the back of the companies profits.... true companies don't see used sales revenue , though the hardcore base fans buys the product new day one usually if the brand puts out exceptional games .....and by word of mouth our friends and the consumer buying used games it may in turn into possibly buying the next installement day one if they had a great gaming experience with the used or lent copy of the game.
The only entitlement I see is your belief that you feel the need to defend the corporation blunders of releasing an unfinished , deceptive product that people took a postion on to complain about and said no more we want what was promised to us. and to quote you if you don't like that " well not to be mean , boo hoo for you"
Dry your eyes, sit down and lay off the caffeine. I am not defending those 'big, bad corporations, I am defending common sense. What you have chosen to interpret from my text is not what is written. I will throw the entitlement issue right back at ya - why aren't companies entitled to make as money as they can off of their products? Because they're already rich enough? Silly reasoning. I read once that the lead developer of Heavy Rain was surprised to see that there were nearly 10 million individual users with Heavy Rain achievements/trophies on PSN. Why was he so surprised? Because the game only sold c.2 million copies (I can't find the exact quote so my numbers may be off, just from memory). Put into perspective how much revenue they lost. That's a lot of money. That's a lot of money that could be used to secure jobs and to develop future games. Even pay for a new swimming pool in the developer's mansion. I don't like having to pay for additional content any more than the next person, but I am a realist and understand that what seems 'fair' and what is 'reality' are two very different things. Gaming is a very different beast from what it was only a few years ago. You can wave your fist and shout how it's wrong, unfair, mean etc etc...it's not going to change. They will do everything they can to squeeze out every last drop of income from their IP's. Partly because they can, partly because they have to in order to survive.
*gets back on high horse and gallops into the sunset*
Modifié par RukiaKuchki, 15 mai 2012 - 11:15 .
#182
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 11:16
MstrJedi Kyle
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I'll still buy their games, they make good ones. There won't be the same level of excitement though, and I think that might be gone for a while if not forever.
#183
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 11:17
Jamie9
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- Members
- 4 172 messages
simfamSP wrote...
Some people have very valid points. But the 'hive mind' thing is especially true. It has an effect on everyone. Especially me.
I find that taking a break here and reflecting on your own thoughts will do you much better. The agnst is addictive, and pretty soon you'll be condeming BioWare to death for ruining ME3 with disingenuous assertions.
This backlash is big, mostly due to the unsatisfying ending. But it seems the anger has spread onto all over the game. And when it was once "90% awesome 10% sucks." It's now "mediocre," "flawed to no end," "just terrible," "4/10," "metacritic speaks true!"
Personally... it bothers me. But it bothers me more when people turn sides so quickly. Unlike user 'x,' who's had a pretty neutral stance on BioWare since 'x.' User 'y' now claims that BioWare suxxx shortly after saying it ruled.
This is true. In fact, I took 3 weeks away from the BSN for this very reason. To clear my head and make a solid opinion. You can see this by looking at my profile activity
I... used to be a BIG fan of BioWare. I would avidly watch every one of their upcoming games, and Day 1 buy them. I have replayed most BioWare games at least 3 times. I've played Dragon Age: Origins 9 times, and Mass Effect 1 & 2 even more.
Their recent attitude and decline in quality haven't caused me to hate BioWare. But I no longer hold them above other games. I probably won't buy their next game unless it returns to the standard that they once held.
It's not as if Mass Effect is the first media to have a terrible ending. Lots of stories (novels, films) have had terrible endings, and unfortunately it tarnishes the whole thing. IMO, you should have an ending in mind when writing your story, as it HAS to be good. That is the last thing people see, and is the thing they will remember.
Unfortunately, Mass Effect joins the pile of media falling at the last hurdle.
#184
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 11:25
cyrslash1974
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- 646 messages
I really love Bioware, but I disagree with their current strategy (more EA strategy than BW one). I have bought a X-box and PC to play BW games mainly (it's true), that explaining certainly why I'm so disappointed now.
#185
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 11:31
httinks2006
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- Members
- 190 messages
[quote]RukiaKuchki wrote...
[quote]TiminatorT2000 wrote...
I live with my roomate who owns a xbox and a ****load of games and barely share them, both of us own a copy of me3. Second hand games encourage sales, and the games industry is doing fine, even great as awhole this argument lack merit for me.
[quote]
Second hand games do not make money for the developers. It may generate publicity, but not money. If money does not go back to developers, developers cut staff/resources and reduce output. Not so difficult to understand is it? If the game industry is doing so great, why are game sales the lowest in a decade? Why are so many studios being closed? Why have so many jobs been lost recently at Sega, THQ, Zipper to name but a few? Some companies are obviously making money, but many are failing terribly. Times are not good. Ignorance is nothing to be proud of.
[quote]
Once again you're wrong , bolded go hand in hand the majority of the time ,if someone buys a secondhand game. they can become a fan of that brand where the next purchase can be the new title coming out next time around , I'll even give you thats not a guarntee but on the other hand you cannot give me the guarntee it won't generate income and If they don't thats basic business.
Stop trying hit the angle that the company will have to make cuts if they don't get loads of revenue , every business does this it's called bottomline but its not an excuse to put out an inferior product or promote lies to sell said product.
Maybe you're the one being ignorant , you don't think consumer satifacition has anything to do with why above said companies may be struggling . You produce a product that doesn't live up to it's promised function so their going to continue to buy your product ? [quote]
[quote]TiminatorT2000 wrote...
Pirating is not theft , It's copyright infringment. Your argueing against basic law and definitions here.Although it dose hurt a company's revenue, just not by much.
I Don't want to get into the whole moral or not arguement so I'll just stay away from that bit.
[quote]
You can hide behind semantics, but it is still theft.
[quote]TiminatorT2000 wrote...
With this line of reasoning every single side quest and character should have been dlc.Imagine if you had to pay for for every character except Miranda/Mordin and Jacob in ME2. In ME3 all of the cererbus side missions and multiplayer would have been dlc .
Basically if everyone had your attitude gaming corporations would rob us blind. Complaining about prices or the cost of extra content is a basic part of the process of capitalism, if I don't like a company's practice I have a right to complain about it and potentially boycott there products.
[quote]
You are just being wilfully silly to make a non-point. You do not need any of the additional content to have a complete experience. If you wish to extend your experience, then you have to pay for it. Like it or not, this is where gaming is going.
Not totally true if gamers choose not to buy dlc and continue to make it a money well it will dry up ,especially if it's an intentional business practice just to milk fans of extra cash off of products they could of had in the game at release. If they choose to add dlc at a later date and yes it's up to gamers at that time to decide if they want the additional product or not that I will agree with you on.
Nowhere in my text did it say you have no right to complain. But, if you choose to complain in a public forum, expect people in that public forum to call you out on it for being a silly billy.
[quote]TiminatorT2000 wrote...
Entitlement is a loaded term that can be used as an argument for anything. I could call you entitled because you expect to get a burger made in Mdonalds in less then 5 minutes , or you expect the kethup and mustard to be free.
"Hey the mustard and Kecthup cost more to make , why shouldn't you be charged for it. That's just the way the world works !"
But I'd argue entitlement is a good thing , it's the reason why people in first world country's can expect medical care and treatment no matter there social standing.Or why in general the rich pay more taxes and most good country's have generous social programs. Or hell why were going to get a extended ending for free.
Entitlement is one of the general reasons why the average human beings now have's a better standard of living then a king did 500 years ago.
[/quote]
You are one of many that persists to (knowingly) misinterpret the concept of entitlement. Please refer to a dictionary for a definition and examples. Using the MacDonalds analogy, expecting my burger to be ready in 5 minutes is not entitlement - it is expectation. However, if I wanted an additional burger between those buns - and perhaps a slice of bacon - I would have to pay for it. I shouldn't get it for free just because it's sitting there waiting on the hotplate.
[quote]
Maybe before you ask someone to look up the defintion to anything you should do it yourself when giving your examples.
It was never about entitlement it was always about expectations of a product that was marketed as ,promises broken and outright lies , once again using your own wording.
Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/
“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any
other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience
and outcome.”
Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/
“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”
Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/
“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people “
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/
“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as
much as we are anyway.”
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/
“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry
“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the
architect of what happens."
“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.”
“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you
didn't make”
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx
“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different
based on what you would do in those situations.”
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/
“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get
some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”
“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an
end.”
Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2
Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.”
“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”
EDIT: Couple more interesting quotes I found, enjoy......or not.
Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....in_bioware.html
Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever
before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle
for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike
Gamble.[quote]
Entitlement with respect to social welfare, education and medical care are not comparable to entitlement with downloadable game content. Silly, silly comparison. Social welfare, education and medical care are not luxury items. They are necessities that you are fortunate enough to have access to. Games are luxury items. You do not need them, and you have no automatic right to have access to them.
[/quote]
So by your logic any luxury item can be faulty and not meet up to what it was marketed as since we don't need it ?
[quote]TiminatorT2000 wrote...
I live with my roomate who owns a xbox and a ****load of games and barely share them, both of us own a copy of me3. Second hand games encourage sales, and the games industry is doing fine, even great as awhole this argument lack merit for me.
[quote]
Second hand games do not make money for the developers. It may generate publicity, but not money. If money does not go back to developers, developers cut staff/resources and reduce output. Not so difficult to understand is it? If the game industry is doing so great, why are game sales the lowest in a decade? Why are so many studios being closed? Why have so many jobs been lost recently at Sega, THQ, Zipper to name but a few? Some companies are obviously making money, but many are failing terribly. Times are not good. Ignorance is nothing to be proud of.
[quote]
Once again you're wrong , bolded go hand in hand the majority of the time ,if someone buys a secondhand game. they can become a fan of that brand where the next purchase can be the new title coming out next time around , I'll even give you thats not a guarntee but on the other hand you cannot give me the guarntee it won't generate income and If they don't thats basic business.
Stop trying hit the angle that the company will have to make cuts if they don't get loads of revenue , every business does this it's called bottomline but its not an excuse to put out an inferior product or promote lies to sell said product.
Maybe you're the one being ignorant , you don't think consumer satifacition has anything to do with why above said companies may be struggling . You produce a product that doesn't live up to it's promised function so their going to continue to buy your product ? [quote]
[quote]TiminatorT2000 wrote...
Pirating is not theft , It's copyright infringment. Your argueing against basic law and definitions here.Although it dose hurt a company's revenue, just not by much.
I Don't want to get into the whole moral or not arguement so I'll just stay away from that bit.
[quote]
You can hide behind semantics, but it is still theft.
[quote]TiminatorT2000 wrote...
With this line of reasoning every single side quest and character should have been dlc.Imagine if you had to pay for for every character except Miranda/Mordin and Jacob in ME2. In ME3 all of the cererbus side missions and multiplayer would have been dlc .
Basically if everyone had your attitude gaming corporations would rob us blind. Complaining about prices or the cost of extra content is a basic part of the process of capitalism, if I don't like a company's practice I have a right to complain about it and potentially boycott there products.
[quote]
You are just being wilfully silly to make a non-point. You do not need any of the additional content to have a complete experience. If you wish to extend your experience, then you have to pay for it. Like it or not, this is where gaming is going.
Not totally true if gamers choose not to buy dlc and continue to make it a money well it will dry up ,especially if it's an intentional business practice just to milk fans of extra cash off of products they could of had in the game at release. If they choose to add dlc at a later date and yes it's up to gamers at that time to decide if they want the additional product or not that I will agree with you on.
Nowhere in my text did it say you have no right to complain. But, if you choose to complain in a public forum, expect people in that public forum to call you out on it for being a silly billy.
[quote]TiminatorT2000 wrote...
Entitlement is a loaded term that can be used as an argument for anything. I could call you entitled because you expect to get a burger made in Mdonalds in less then 5 minutes , or you expect the kethup and mustard to be free.
"Hey the mustard and Kecthup cost more to make , why shouldn't you be charged for it. That's just the way the world works !"
But I'd argue entitlement is a good thing , it's the reason why people in first world country's can expect medical care and treatment no matter there social standing.Or why in general the rich pay more taxes and most good country's have generous social programs. Or hell why were going to get a extended ending for free.
Entitlement is one of the general reasons why the average human beings now have's a better standard of living then a king did 500 years ago.
[/quote]
You are one of many that persists to (knowingly) misinterpret the concept of entitlement. Please refer to a dictionary for a definition and examples. Using the MacDonalds analogy, expecting my burger to be ready in 5 minutes is not entitlement - it is expectation. However, if I wanted an additional burger between those buns - and perhaps a slice of bacon - I would have to pay for it. I shouldn't get it for free just because it's sitting there waiting on the hotplate.
[quote]
Maybe before you ask someone to look up the defintion to anything you should do it yourself when giving your examples.
It was never about entitlement it was always about expectations of a product that was marketed as ,promises broken and outright lies , once again using your own wording.
Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/
“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any
other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience
and outcome.”
Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/
“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”
Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/
“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people “
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/
“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as
much as we are anyway.”
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/
“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry
“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the
architect of what happens."
“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.”
“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you
didn't make”
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx
“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different
based on what you would do in those situations.”
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/
“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get
some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”
“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an
end.”
Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2
Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.”
“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”
EDIT: Couple more interesting quotes I found, enjoy......or not.
Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....in_bioware.html
Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever
before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle
for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike
Gamble.[quote]
Entitlement with respect to social welfare, education and medical care are not comparable to entitlement with downloadable game content. Silly, silly comparison. Social welfare, education and medical care are not luxury items. They are necessities that you are fortunate enough to have access to. Games are luxury items. You do not need them, and you have no automatic right to have access to them.
[/quote]
So by your logic any luxury item can be faulty and not meet up to what it was marketed as since we don't need it ?
Modifié par httinks2006, 15 mai 2012 - 12:07 .
#186
Guest_Vurculac_*
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 11:34
Guest_Vurculac_*
Guest_Vurculac_*
-
- Guests
-Area51-Silent wrote...
Bioware is now just the same as every other game company out there...
Sadly...pretty much this.
#187
Guest_Vurculac_*
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 11:34
Guest_Vurculac_*
Guest_Vurculac_*
-
- Guests
[quote]httinks2006 wrote...
[quote]RukiaKuchki wrote...
[quote]TiminatorT2000 wrote...
I live with my roomate who owns a xbox and a ****load of games and barely share them, both of us own a copy of me3. Second hand games encourage sales, and the games industry is doing fine, even great as awhole this argument lack merit for me.
[quote]
Second hand games do not make money for the developers. It may generate publicity, but not money. If money does not go back to developers, developers cut staff/resources and reduce output. Not so difficult to understand is it? If the game industry is doing so great, why are game sales the lowest in a decade? Why are so many studios being closed? Why have so many jobs been lost recently at Sega, THQ, Zipper to name but a few? Some companies are obviously making money, but many are failing terribly. Times are not good. Ignorance is nothing to be proud of.
Once again you're wrong , bolded go hand in hand the majority of the time ,if someone buys a secondhand game. they can become a fan of that brand where the next purchase can be the new title coming out next time around , I'll even give you thats not a guarntee but on the other hand you cannot give me the guarntee it won't generate income and If they don't thats basic business.
Stop trying hit the angle that the company will have to make cuts if they don't get loads of revenue , every business does this it's called bottomline but its not an excuse to put out an inferior product or promote lies to sell said product.
Maybe you're the one being ignorant , you don't think consumer satifacition has anything to do with why above said companies may be struggling . You produce a product that doesn't live up to it's promised function so their going to continue to buy your product ?
[quote]TiminatorT2000 wrote...
Pirating is not theft , It's copyright infringment. Your argueing against basic law and definitions here.Although it dose hurt a company's revenue, just not by much.
I Don't want to get into the whole moral or not arguement so I'll just stay away from that bit.
[quote]
You can hide behind semantics, but it is still theft.
[quote]TiminatorT2000 wrote...
With this line of reasoning every single side quest and character should have been dlc.Imagine if you had to pay for for every character except Miranda/Mordin and Jacob in ME2. In ME3 all of the cererbus side missions and multiplayer would have been dlc .
Basically if everyone had your attitude gaming corporations would rob us blind. Complaining about prices or the cost of extra content is a basic part of the process of capitalism, if I don't like a company's practice I have a right to complain about it and potentially boycott there products.
[quote]
You are just being wilfully silly to make a non-point. You do not need any of the additional content to have a complete experience. If you wish to extend your experience, then you have to pay for it. Like it or not, this is where gaming is going.
Not totally true if gamers choose not to buy dlc and continue to make it a money well it will dry up ,especially if it's an intentional business practice just to milk fans of extra cash off of products they could of had in the game at release. If they choose to add dlc at a later date and yes it's up to gamers at that time to decide if they want the additional product or not that I will agree with you on.
Nowhere in my text did it say you have no right to complain. But, if you choose to complain in a public forum, expect people in that public forum to call you out on it for being a silly billy.
[quote]TiminatorT2000 wrote...
Entitlement is a loaded term that can be used as an argument for anything. I could call you entitled because you expect to get a burger made in Mdonalds in less then 5 minutes , or you expect the kethup and mustard to be free.
"Hey the mustard and Kecthup cost more to make , why shouldn't you be charged for it. That's just the way the world works !"
But I'd argue entitlement is a good thing , it's the reason why people in first world country's can expect medical care and treatment no matter there social standing.Or why in general the rich pay more taxes and most good country's have generous social programs. Or hell why were going to get a extended ending for free.
Entitlement is one of the general reasons why the average human beings now have's a better standard of living then a king did 500 years ago.
[/quote]
You are one of many that persists to (knowingly) misinterpret the concept of entitlement. Please refer to a dictionary for a definition and examples. Using the MacDonalds analogy, expecting my burger to be ready in 5 minutes is not entitlement - it is expectation. However, if I wanted an additional burger between those buns - and perhaps a slice of bacon - I would have to pay for it. I shouldn't get it for free just because it's sitting there waiting on the hotplate.
Maybe before you ask someone to look up the defintion to anything you should do it yourself when giving your examples.
It was never about entitlement it was always about expectations of a product that was marketed as ,promises broken and outright lies , once again using your own wording.
Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/
“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any
other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience
and outcome.”
Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/
“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”
Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/
“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people “
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/
“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as
much as we are anyway.”
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/
“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry
“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the
architect of what happens."
“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.”
“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you
didn't make”
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx
“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different
based on what you would do in those situations.”
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/
“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get
some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”
“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an
end.”
Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2
Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.”
“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”
EDIT: Couple more interesting quotes I found, enjoy......or not.
Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....in_bioware.html
Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever
before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle
for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike
Gamble.
Entitlement with respect to social welfare, education and medical care are not comparable to entitlement with downloadable game content. Silly, silly comparison. Social welfare, education and medical care are not luxury items. They are necessities that you are fortunate enough to have access to. Games are luxury items. You do not need them, and you have no automatic right to have access to them.
[/quote]
So by your logic any luxury item can be faulty and not meet up to what it was marketed as since we don't need it ?
[/quote]
^^^Format much?^^^
[quote]RukiaKuchki wrote...
[quote]TiminatorT2000 wrote...
I live with my roomate who owns a xbox and a ****load of games and barely share them, both of us own a copy of me3. Second hand games encourage sales, and the games industry is doing fine, even great as awhole this argument lack merit for me.
[quote]
Second hand games do not make money for the developers. It may generate publicity, but not money. If money does not go back to developers, developers cut staff/resources and reduce output. Not so difficult to understand is it? If the game industry is doing so great, why are game sales the lowest in a decade? Why are so many studios being closed? Why have so many jobs been lost recently at Sega, THQ, Zipper to name but a few? Some companies are obviously making money, but many are failing terribly. Times are not good. Ignorance is nothing to be proud of.
Once again you're wrong , bolded go hand in hand the majority of the time ,if someone buys a secondhand game. they can become a fan of that brand where the next purchase can be the new title coming out next time around , I'll even give you thats not a guarntee but on the other hand you cannot give me the guarntee it won't generate income and If they don't thats basic business.
Stop trying hit the angle that the company will have to make cuts if they don't get loads of revenue , every business does this it's called bottomline but its not an excuse to put out an inferior product or promote lies to sell said product.
Maybe you're the one being ignorant , you don't think consumer satifacition has anything to do with why above said companies may be struggling . You produce a product that doesn't live up to it's promised function so their going to continue to buy your product ?
[quote]TiminatorT2000 wrote...
Pirating is not theft , It's copyright infringment. Your argueing against basic law and definitions here.Although it dose hurt a company's revenue, just not by much.
I Don't want to get into the whole moral or not arguement so I'll just stay away from that bit.
[quote]
You can hide behind semantics, but it is still theft.
[quote]TiminatorT2000 wrote...
With this line of reasoning every single side quest and character should have been dlc.Imagine if you had to pay for for every character except Miranda/Mordin and Jacob in ME2. In ME3 all of the cererbus side missions and multiplayer would have been dlc .
Basically if everyone had your attitude gaming corporations would rob us blind. Complaining about prices or the cost of extra content is a basic part of the process of capitalism, if I don't like a company's practice I have a right to complain about it and potentially boycott there products.
[quote]
You are just being wilfully silly to make a non-point. You do not need any of the additional content to have a complete experience. If you wish to extend your experience, then you have to pay for it. Like it or not, this is where gaming is going.
Not totally true if gamers choose not to buy dlc and continue to make it a money well it will dry up ,especially if it's an intentional business practice just to milk fans of extra cash off of products they could of had in the game at release. If they choose to add dlc at a later date and yes it's up to gamers at that time to decide if they want the additional product or not that I will agree with you on.
Nowhere in my text did it say you have no right to complain. But, if you choose to complain in a public forum, expect people in that public forum to call you out on it for being a silly billy.
[quote]TiminatorT2000 wrote...
Entitlement is a loaded term that can be used as an argument for anything. I could call you entitled because you expect to get a burger made in Mdonalds in less then 5 minutes , or you expect the kethup and mustard to be free.
"Hey the mustard and Kecthup cost more to make , why shouldn't you be charged for it. That's just the way the world works !"
But I'd argue entitlement is a good thing , it's the reason why people in first world country's can expect medical care and treatment no matter there social standing.Or why in general the rich pay more taxes and most good country's have generous social programs. Or hell why were going to get a extended ending for free.
Entitlement is one of the general reasons why the average human beings now have's a better standard of living then a king did 500 years ago.
[/quote]
You are one of many that persists to (knowingly) misinterpret the concept of entitlement. Please refer to a dictionary for a definition and examples. Using the MacDonalds analogy, expecting my burger to be ready in 5 minutes is not entitlement - it is expectation. However, if I wanted an additional burger between those buns - and perhaps a slice of bacon - I would have to pay for it. I shouldn't get it for free just because it's sitting there waiting on the hotplate.
Maybe before you ask someone to look up the defintion to anything you should do it yourself when giving your examples.
It was never about entitlement it was always about expectations of a product that was marketed as ,promises broken and outright lies , once again using your own wording.
Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/
“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any
other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience
and outcome.”
Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.c...-3-mac-walters/
“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”
Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.fina...-all-audiences/
“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people “
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computera...missing-in-me2/
“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as
much as we are anyway.”
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazi...ferent-endings/
“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”
Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer...me-people-angry
“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the
architect of what happens."
“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.”
“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you
didn't make”
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...s-effect-3.aspx
“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different
based on what you would do in those situations.”
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.c...fans-interview/
“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get
some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”
“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an
end.”
Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”
Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinfor...PostPageIndex=2
Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.”
“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”
EDIT: Couple more interesting quotes I found, enjoy......or not.
Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer....in_bioware.html
Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever
before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle
for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike
Gamble.
Entitlement with respect to social welfare, education and medical care are not comparable to entitlement with downloadable game content. Silly, silly comparison. Social welfare, education and medical care are not luxury items. They are necessities that you are fortunate enough to have access to. Games are luxury items. You do not need them, and you have no automatic right to have access to them.
[/quote]
So by your logic any luxury item can be faulty and not meet up to what it was marketed as since we don't need it ?
[/quote]
^^^Format much?^^^
#188
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 11:35
Archonsg
-
- Members
- 3 560 messages
Jamie9 wrote...
Mass Effect 3 has been a huge event in BioWare's history. Arguably one of their most anticipated games since their inception, nobody could have foreseen what ended up happening.
I'll get to the point: What is your opinion on BioWare as of now?
How do you feel about:
- Day 1 DLC: From Ashes
- Multiplayer
- Single player campaign
- ...the ending
- The unreleased Extended Cut
1) Day one DLC? At the time, my thought process was "Who the hell didn't buy CE, it's Mass Effect and a Bioware game for crying out loud!"
Now, still won't bother me since I won't ever be buying CE or making "day one" purchases. Only reviews I am going to trust are from players themselves since ME3 has shown that every review site / magazines to be shills with reviewers never actually completing the product they are reviewing or are just not willing to give truthful review for fear of losing an advertising client.
2) Multi-player.
I bought ME3 for it SP game and story, I play MP because of the SP. This isn't BF3 where I buy the game for MP play and play SP on a whim. Having said that, and considering my N7 score, I am ONLY playing MP at the moment because I cannot stomach another run at the SP campaign DUE TO THE ENDING.
3) SP Campaign and the ending.
Crown of the series, Tuchanka and Rannoch arcs. Everything that Mass Effect was meant to be can be found here. (If you murdered Mordin, You. Are. An. As.shole.)
The ending was a demonstration in the breaking of the human spirit. Did you think all three choices were sacrifices? Not a chance. You see, a sacrifice is when the character AND player were given a choice to accept death as part of the price to do effect a greater good, for something the player or character believes in. No, all three "choices" in this case were arbitrary deaths sentences based on a betrayal.
Control ; betrayal of the ideals of freedom
Destroy ; betrayal of alliances, friendship and trust
Synthesis ; betrayal of one's individuality, forcing all races willing or not to be more like machines.
So, we have a broken Shepard, who gave up and accepted a suicide backed by a betrayal from an entity who claims to be in control of the very things killing your friends as they speak. Bravo for artistic integrity.
4) EC DLC. I have no expectations for it whatsoever. I am hoping that Bioware somehow realizes just how FUBAR they made of the ending and in doing so tainted the entire series and their brand but judging by the hubris shown at PAX East, by their response and official statements, the Bioware I knew who kept in conversation, gathered feedback and actually act on those feedbacks are gone. Treat me like a scam mark and I'll withhold all purchases with anything to do with its brand.
EA is at the moment on my ban list for my family of 5 gamers (each with their own PC or console).
Modifié par Archonsg, 15 mai 2012 - 12:19 .
#189
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 11:52
Jamie9
-
- Members
- 4 172 messages
RukiaKuchki wrote...
While I sympathise with many of the points discussed, the DLC one I just do not. DLC is a mainstay of current gaming. Accept it. Why? Two simple reasons. The main one - companies only see a relatively small proportion of the income from their games due to people sharing games, buying them second hand or simply stealing. People won't stop stealing. Downloading without paying is theft. All of these things hurt a company's revenue, which in turn affects their borrowing/spending power and ability to develop new games. There is this pervasive attitude that stealing from big companies like EA is ok, they can afford it. So what if they can? How 'big' must a company be before you're morally allowed to steal from them? What about you? If you earn more money than me, does that me I have a moral right to go into your home and take your belongings because you can afford to replace them? The second reason for DLC is simply because people want to extend their experience. When the main campaign is finished, they often want more. And why shouldn't they pay for that privilidge? It costs money to develop this additional content. Again, that horrible 'entitlement' word springs to mind. Gaming is an expensive hobby and games are a luxury item. You are no more entitled to a game than you are to demand training to be an astronaut from NASA. If you cannot afford the additional content, well, I'm sorry to be mean, but boo-hoo for you. This is the way the world works.
I'd first like to point out I bought the N7 Edition, which is a fair bit of money to spend on a single game. I never buy second hand games and I do not pirate. I have pirated TV shows before their Blu-Ray releases but I always buy it afterwards.
So, I shouldn't care right? I get the DLC with my Collectors Edition? Wrong. When you pay $60 for a game, you better be getting everything made prior to release. Everything! Cosmetic skins, I guess are okay to leave out, but something as important as a Prothean? No.
Entitlement. Sigh. This is an issue I can't really dispute. The argument is built that way. The point is, what am I spending $60 on? I am spending it to refund the devs, publishers etc. for the time they spent making the game. That's the point - Day 1 DLC is not additional content. It is content that could, and should be put into the main game.
I'm very willing to buy DLC made after the fact. I am not entitled to anything created post-release.
And if this is the way the world works, then I guess I'll have to boycott said products as a matter of principle. And unless consumers want every game developer to practice these methods, I encourage you to do the same. If you are fine with it, then sure go ahead. But it's a very anti-consumer thought process.
#190
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 12:23
G00N3R7883
-
- Members
- 452 messages
Jamie9 wrote...
I'll get to the point: What is your opinion on BioWare as of now?
Overall still reasonably positive. But some things are troubling me. Not enough that I'll ignore their future games, but I might have to consider whether I preorder or wait for reviews.
- Day 1 DLC: From Ashes
Blatantly ripped from the main game to get a bit more money from customers. I posted more in detail about this in another thread recently, but in my opinion, Javik is not an optional character. His insight into Prothean history and culture is essential.
- Multiplayer
I have not played it, on principle. The fact that it is linked to singleplayer and affects the content we can see in singleplayer disgusts me. Bioware's lack of REAL information (eg, give us more details than "we're investigating") about what they're doing on this issue is disrespectful. I am worried about how this "feature" will be implemented in future games.
- Single player campaign (first 99%)
Pretty much everything I hoped for. Yes there were some minor issues, but I can overlook them because no game is perfect. But the story and characters were epic and emotional, the combat was intense and cinematic. It was almost the perfect conclusion to my favourite game series.
- ...the ending
Horrible. We've all discussed this to death several times over already, but ... Introducing a new character that changes the entire plot with 5 minutes to go, and then not really explaining anything properly, is just bad writing. Not giving any closure to the companions that we've adventured with for 80+ hours is disappointing. There were huge plot holes regarding the Normandy and the Relays. Our war assets didn't really count for anything.
The most confusing thing is how Bioware could stumble so badly so near the end. Logically you'd think that either they'd have nailed those last few minutes as well, or the entire game would have been bad/average. Its almost like they outsourced the ending to a different company that never played Mass Effect before.
- The unreleased Extended Cut[
I remain hopeful that this will fix my concerns. However my concerns are different from some other people's concerns. For example I don't actually mind the 3 choices we got. The cinematics should have been different. But I'm okay with the idea behind destroy/control/synthesis. I also don't have my heart set on the IT. I would be pleased if they did it (because it would automatically erase all my concerns as if they never happened in a way that makes sense with Mass Effect lore) but I don't honestly believe it was planned. So I expect that whatever actually happens with the EC, there will still be a firestorm on the forums because they can't please everyone.
Modifié par G00N3R7883, 15 mai 2012 - 12:23 .
#191
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 12:58
BunBun299
-
- Members
- 95 messages
Prior to the ending of Mass Effect 3, Bioware was my favorite game developer. Had been since KOTOR. They lost that place to Bethesda because of that ending. And the EC would have to be a work of genius for them to reclaim it.
#192
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 01:02
httinks2006
-
- Members
- 190 messages
[quote]RukiaKuchki wrote...
[quote]httinks2006 wrote...
You need to get off your high and mighty horse for one thing , then you might see you have no clue why people are mad about the dlc day one release . I ll explain it to you since it seemed to have gone over your head in your throne above us all.
Personally I had the content because I bought the collectors edition of the game , though I 100% disagree that it was not a crucial part of the experience , it's been in the lore since ME1 and was clearly a way to milk the fans for even more money .
Characters like Kasumi , Zaeed were not ,those are examples of squadmates that just extend your squad choices with opportunities to earn more experience, weapons, paragon or renegade points ,and more side missions .
So in your opinion Since Companies are so poor in which thieving consumers are to blame it's ok in your view for them to sell us a game system but not include the controller and sell it as an extra so we can actually play games on it?
Then you want to also assert that there are so many friends lending games to one another that it's breaking the back of the companies profits.... true companies don't see used sales revenue , though the hardcore base fans buys the product new day one usually if the brand puts out exceptional games .....and by word of mouth our friends and the consumer buying used games it may in turn into possibly buying the next installement day one if they had a great gaming experience with the used or lent copy of the game.
The only entitlement I see is your belief that you feel the need to defend the corporation blunders of releasing an unfinished , deceptive product that people took a postion on to complain about and said no more we want what was promised to us. and to quote you if you don't like that " well not to be mean , boo hoo for you"
[/quote]
Dry your eyes, sit down and lay off the caffeine. I am not defending those 'big, bad corporations, I am defending common sense.
[quote] You're not defending common sense, you are if anything defending your opinion of what you think is right [quote]
What you have chosen to interpret from my text is not what is written. I will throw the entitlement issue right back at ya - why aren't companies entitled to make as much money as they can off of their products? Because they're already rich enough? Silly reasoning. I read once that the lead developer of Heavy Rain was surprised to see that there were nearly 10 million individual users with Heavy Rain achievements/trophies on PSN. Why was he so surprised? Because the game only sold c.2 million copies (I can't find the exact quote so my numbers may be off, just from memory). Put into perspective how much revenue they lost. That's a lot of money. That's a lot of money that could be used to secure jobs and to develop future games. Even pay for a new swimming pool in the developer's mansion. I don't like having to pay for additional content any more than the next person, but I am a realist and understand that what seems 'fair' and what is 'reality' are two very different things.
[quote] Where did I say developers are not allowed to make a profit , I didn't, you're the one who's trying to make it sound like they'ye going to be in the poor house , and every employee will be out of a job tomorrow .
Has nothing to do with what's fair , life isn't fair . If a company promises features will be in their product and they do not deliver than the consumer will hold them responsible .Bioware failed to deliver on what they promsied.
If you cannot keep your promises don't make them.
If you need to lie to sell your product then you deserve whatever backlash you get.
Do not make promises you cannot deliver , If you do be prepared to apologize and hope your customers forgive you . That right there is common sense, logic and being a realist. [quote]
Gaming is a very different beast from what it was only a few years ago. You can wave your fist and shout how it's wrong, unfair, mean etc etc...it's not going to change. They will do everything they can to squeeze out every last drop of income from their IP's. Partly because they can, partly because they have to in order to survive.
[quote]
It's a simple solution fans don't buy their product and you're wrong if you believe a business has to milk its customers out of every dime to survive . Being honest and giving great customer service and dependable products will keep consumers buying from your company. Many people go to a location for the people not because of the product they carry they can buy a can of beans anywhere it's not always about the price of the beans.[quote]
[quote]
Things can change this is where you're wrong once again .The Extended Cut , you ever hear of that ? A Company can only get away with bad business practices for so long .
You know what the gaming world is watching what's the next developer going do?? For that matter how is this fall out going effect Bioware , time will tell. [quote]
*gets back on high horse and gallops into the sunset*
[/quote]
[quote]httinks2006 wrote...
You need to get off your high and mighty horse for one thing , then you might see you have no clue why people are mad about the dlc day one release . I ll explain it to you since it seemed to have gone over your head in your throne above us all.
Personally I had the content because I bought the collectors edition of the game , though I 100% disagree that it was not a crucial part of the experience , it's been in the lore since ME1 and was clearly a way to milk the fans for even more money .
Characters like Kasumi , Zaeed were not ,those are examples of squadmates that just extend your squad choices with opportunities to earn more experience, weapons, paragon or renegade points ,and more side missions .
So in your opinion Since Companies are so poor in which thieving consumers are to blame it's ok in your view for them to sell us a game system but not include the controller and sell it as an extra so we can actually play games on it?
Then you want to also assert that there are so many friends lending games to one another that it's breaking the back of the companies profits.... true companies don't see used sales revenue , though the hardcore base fans buys the product new day one usually if the brand puts out exceptional games .....and by word of mouth our friends and the consumer buying used games it may in turn into possibly buying the next installement day one if they had a great gaming experience with the used or lent copy of the game.
The only entitlement I see is your belief that you feel the need to defend the corporation blunders of releasing an unfinished , deceptive product that people took a postion on to complain about and said no more we want what was promised to us. and to quote you if you don't like that " well not to be mean , boo hoo for you"
[/quote]
Dry your eyes, sit down and lay off the caffeine. I am not defending those 'big, bad corporations, I am defending common sense.
[quote] You're not defending common sense, you are if anything defending your opinion of what you think is right [quote]
What you have chosen to interpret from my text is not what is written. I will throw the entitlement issue right back at ya - why aren't companies entitled to make as much money as they can off of their products? Because they're already rich enough? Silly reasoning. I read once that the lead developer of Heavy Rain was surprised to see that there were nearly 10 million individual users with Heavy Rain achievements/trophies on PSN. Why was he so surprised? Because the game only sold c.2 million copies (I can't find the exact quote so my numbers may be off, just from memory). Put into perspective how much revenue they lost. That's a lot of money. That's a lot of money that could be used to secure jobs and to develop future games. Even pay for a new swimming pool in the developer's mansion. I don't like having to pay for additional content any more than the next person, but I am a realist and understand that what seems 'fair' and what is 'reality' are two very different things.
[quote] Where did I say developers are not allowed to make a profit , I didn't, you're the one who's trying to make it sound like they'ye going to be in the poor house , and every employee will be out of a job tomorrow .
Has nothing to do with what's fair , life isn't fair . If a company promises features will be in their product and they do not deliver than the consumer will hold them responsible .Bioware failed to deliver on what they promsied.
If you cannot keep your promises don't make them.
If you need to lie to sell your product then you deserve whatever backlash you get.
Do not make promises you cannot deliver , If you do be prepared to apologize and hope your customers forgive you . That right there is common sense, logic and being a realist. [quote]
Gaming is a very different beast from what it was only a few years ago. You can wave your fist and shout how it's wrong, unfair, mean etc etc...it's not going to change. They will do everything they can to squeeze out every last drop of income from their IP's. Partly because they can, partly because they have to in order to survive.
[quote]
It's a simple solution fans don't buy their product and you're wrong if you believe a business has to milk its customers out of every dime to survive . Being honest and giving great customer service and dependable products will keep consumers buying from your company. Many people go to a location for the people not because of the product they carry they can buy a can of beans anywhere it's not always about the price of the beans.[quote]
[quote]
Things can change this is where you're wrong once again .The Extended Cut , you ever hear of that ? A Company can only get away with bad business practices for so long .
You know what the gaming world is watching what's the next developer going do?? For that matter how is this fall out going effect Bioware , time will tell. [quote]
*gets back on high horse and gallops into the sunset*
[/quote]
#193
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 01:17
Morty Smith
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In my opinion they are their own worst enemy.
#194
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 01:46
Slayer299
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1. It's readily apparent that FA's was a part of ME3 and not D1 DLC cash milking project.
2. MP should have been a separate DLC and not integral to start. This goes for the unforgivable mess that requires you to play MP for the SP game.
3. SP campaign had only 2 things going for it; Rannoch and Tuchanka. The tons of autodialogue, wasted intro, horrible char. animations, LI's from 2 getting the short end of the stick, straight-on-rails campaign, one (not so big) hub world, a journal from Hades, 20K fetch quests, etc.....all the rest sucked eggs hard.
4. The endings were so bad that adjectives just cannot convey clearly.
5. The EC is a waste of resources, they'd be better put to adding a deep sea fishing mini-game in ME3 for all the good it will do.
Yes it has, Bioware was a 'must buy' developer before, but after the last two releases they now sit on the bottom and all purchases will be from the PC used games section now.
2. MP should have been a separate DLC and not integral to start. This goes for the unforgivable mess that requires you to play MP for the SP game.
3. SP campaign had only 2 things going for it; Rannoch and Tuchanka. The tons of autodialogue, wasted intro, horrible char. animations, LI's from 2 getting the short end of the stick, straight-on-rails campaign, one (not so big) hub world, a journal from Hades, 20K fetch quests, etc.....all the rest sucked eggs hard.
4. The endings were so bad that adjectives just cannot convey clearly.
5. The EC is a waste of resources, they'd be better put to adding a deep sea fishing mini-game in ME3 for all the good it will do.
Yes it has, Bioware was a 'must buy' developer before, but after the last two releases they now sit on the bottom and all purchases will be from the PC used games section now.
Modifié par Slayer299, 15 mai 2012 - 01:48 .
#195
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 02:38
Mysten
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Jamie9 wrote...
Mass Effect 3 has been a huge event in BioWare's history. Arguably one of their most anticipated games since their inception, nobody could have foreseen what ended up happening.
I'll get to the point: What is your opinion on BioWare as of now?
The same as it always has been: they make great games that I like playing. That's it. If I have a negative opinion on a specific game (and I'm not saying I do), it's confined entirely to that specific game - it doesn't taint my opinion of the developer.
How do you feel about:
- Day 1 DLC: From Ashes
- Multiplayer
- Single player campaign
- ...the ending
- The unreleased Extended Cut
From Ashes: Loved it. I can see why it was cut from the main game and worked on seperately as DLC: it's something only fans of the series are going to fully appreciate. The Protheans' significance to the plot was over after the first game and we utilised the Conduit to stop Sovereign. Everything Javik adds to the game is just extra flavour for the people who really want it, but people who aren't interested aren't going to miss it.
Multiplayer: Fun. That's it. I don't think adding it was a mistake or that it took anything away from the single-player experience.
Single-player campaign: One of the best games I have ever played and an incredibly ambitious project that came out better than I expected (carrying decisions forward into two direct sequels.)
Ending: Not the best I've played, but not the worst by far. My opinion of it has gone up and down over time but it's never dipped as low as to be negative. It was okay. It was as fine a way to end Shepard's story as any other as far as I'm concerned.
Extended Cut: I love Director's/Extended Cuts. Any extra content that comes with those editions tends to be geared towards the fans but wasn't entirely suitable for wider audiences (especially if it's a matter of length - imagine having to sit through the entire Citadel sequence as a non-fan if it was an extra 30 minutes longer and stuffed with exposition that you didn't understand or care about?) so if I'm a fan, I want that.
I feel I'm a little more realistic about the EC than most people seem to be. It's going to be like watching the director's cut of Donnie Darko - a few minor scenes will get added that clear up a little ambiguity, something might get rearranged slightly and generally the whole thing will flow a little better but if you genuinely didn't enjoy the original cut then nothing significant enough is probably going to change to make you love it.
#196
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 03:03
leapingmonkeys
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TheGreatDayne wrote...
And Liara should have been killable! I have nothing against her, but it would have been so emotional for my Shepard to romance her, and see her die!
Sometimes I really wonder about my fellow human beings. I find it much more emotional to romance someone and see them survive.
#197
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 03:37
Jamie9
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leapingmonkeys wrote...
TheGreatDayne wrote...
And Liara should have been killable! I have nothing against her, but it would have been so emotional for my Shepard to romance her, and see her die!
Sometimes I really wonder about my fellow human beings. I find it much more emotional to romance someone and see them survive.
Ha ha. Shakespeare and George R. R. Martin started a group. Lots of people joined.
#198
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 03:42
Unit-Alpha
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If they had put out the EC announcement a lot earlier or hadn't attacked us or minimized the issue, I could have forgiven them completely. It's far too late for that; Bioware has been damaged irreparably in my mind at this point, even if EC is everything I could hope for.
#199
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 09:48
Sc2mashimaro
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Unit-Alpha wrote...
If they had put out the EC announcement a lot earlier or hadn't attacked us or minimized the issue, I could have forgiven them completely. It's far too late for that; Bioware has been damaged irreparably in my mind at this point, even if EC is everything I could hope for.
Bioware has not been trying to attack their own fans. They DID fail to realize that the problem existed until much (which strongly plays in to why some people have felt "attacked"), much too late and they have had a string of PR failures tied to this debacle. Bioware has a HUGE communication/PR problem (much bigger than the ending problem, in the long run), but once you realize that it is far easier to understand the interactions thus far and why the Extended Cut IS probably a genuinely good-faith effort to fix the problem. The EC will not be everything you could hope for, how could it be? It is a step in the right direction for Bioware and a signal that they are trying to listen and be the kind of company they say they want to be. Remember that Bioware is an entertainment company and our complaint is analogous to complaining that the last ten minutes of Star Wars should be re-shot. Bioware has basically said, "okay, you're right, people did not get the feelings and thoughts we were aiming for with this ending so we'll shoot some more scenes and cut it together a little differently to try to acheive the feel we were looking for, but we will not be chaning the STORY."
I probably won't change your mind, but I think you should consider why you think the damage is "irreparable" and what, exactly, Bioware has damaged by publishing a sub-par ending.
#200
Posté 15 mai 2012 - 09:52
webhead921
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Sc2mashimaro wrote...
Bioware has not been trying to attack their own fans. They DID fail to realize that the problem existed until much (which strongly plays in to why some people have felt "attacked"), much too late and they have had a string of PR failures tied to this debacle. Bioware has a HUGE communication/PR problem (much bigger than the ending problem, in the long run), but once you realize that it is far easier to understand the interactions thus far and why the Extended Cut IS probably a genuinely good-faith effort to fix the problem. The EC will not be everything you could hope for, how could it be? It is a step in the right direction for Bioware and a signal that they are trying to listen and be the kind of company they say they want to be. Remember that Bioware is an entertainment company and our complaint is analogous to complaining that the last ten minutes of Star Wars should be re-shot. Bioware has basically said, "okay, you're right, people did not get the feelings and thoughts we were aiming for with this ending so we'll shoot some more scenes and cut it together a little differently to try to acheive the feel we were looking for, but we will not be chaning the STORY."
I probably won't change your mind, but I think you should consider why you think the damage is "irreparable" and what, exactly, Bioware has damaged by publishing a sub-par ending.
Well said!
