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[hussey 92]

Mclouvins wrote...

hussey 92 wrote...

renjility wrote...

Soirreb wrote...
Still, I am curious as to how they intend to explain Leliana's resurrection, for those who did kill her on their DA:O saves...

The Maker did it.

^ yep, thats pretty much the explantion they give.

maybe the maker can bring back Duncan for DA3 so he can have a bad cameo as well  

They didn't really go into it but Leliana being back isn't that much of a strech considering you kill her next to the ashes which a mere pinch of revived Eamon as well as sustaining the guardian and all of the other guantlet things for 1000 or so years.

But if you kill Leliana, that means the ashes were destoyed.

Also the ashes revieved Eamon, they didn't bring him back to life.

Modifié par hussey 92, 16 mai 2012 - 11:53 .

[Sylvanpyxie]

They didn't really go into it but Leliana being back isn't that much of a strech considering you kill her next to the ashes which a mere pinch of revived Eamon.

Revival and resurrection are not the same thing.

Eamon may have been ill, but he still had a pulse. He was dying, but he was not *dead*. His illness was cured and he was revived to full health.

Leliana was stabbed through the chest, set on fire, and beheaded in my play through. You don't get more utterly, completely and unmistakably dead than that.

Well, you *could* get more dead than that, but it'd require a black hole, or a chainsaw and a boat...

Modifié par Sylvanpyxie, 17 mai 2012 - 12:38 .

[Nerdage]

I wouldn't put too much stock in the finisher animations if you kill Leliana. All the game cares is that you defeated her, it isn't going to account for a chance-on-hit animation, in which case it's feasible to say she's no more dead than if she were defeated as one of the party.

Still smacks of a hand-wave, but just saying.

[jackofalltrades456]

nerdage wrote...

Still smacks of a hand-wave, but just saying.

That's what caused me resent companion cameos in future Dragon Age games. It wasn't even the notion that she'll survive regardless of whether or not you killed her. Personally, I could never kill Leliana in my game. She's just too cute. I just felt like they hand-waved ALL the choices you had with her just for the sake of making her a plot relevant character. She just went "Oh, yeah. That did happen........" then brushes it off completely. The same thing happened to Anders and look what happened. We received a radically changed and retconned character who was almost nothing like what he was in the last game.

Leliana is already heading into this path and picture Morrigan getting the same treatment if she's in Dragon Age 3. That's why, as much as I love characters like Leliana and Morrigan, I'd be happier just never seeing them after the game they appeared in.

Modifié par jackofalltrades456, 17 mai 2012 - 01:49 .

[Nerdage]

Filament wrote...

So it only bothered you based on meta-knowledge of a retcon you never experienced?

Not saying that's necessarily wrong or anything, just... interesting. :innocent:

Speaking personally, it concerns me a bit to think which choices I made previously might be side-stepped down the line. Leliana specifically returning never bothered me in the least since I've never killed her and the more she's around the better as far as I'm concerned (but it is still a bit of a cheesy hand-wave, at least as it stands now), but the boot might not always be on the same foot..

Modifié par nerdage, 17 mai 2012 - 02:04 .

[craigdolphin]

I really hope that any cameos respect the decisions of the player in previous games.

If your DAO epilogue says the warden and Leliana travel the world together, Leliana should not show up in Kirkwall with a job as a seeker for the chantry without the warden. Could Bioware come up with an explanation? Sure they could. But by doing so they take away the ending that the player 'won' by playing origins and making the decisions they made. That's pretty shabby IMO.

Similarly, if you kill a companion, they should not come back.

For that reason, IMO any cameos should be restricted to non-love interests and to companions that cannot be killed. Better yet, avoid them alltogether. Especially given that they all looked hideous in DA2 IMO.

I know Bioware is free to do whatever they wish with their story. But games are interactive. And it smacks of disrespect for a player's time and story outcome to just handwave away their input. After the ME3 ending debacle, this should not be something Bioware should dismiss. The same symptom can be seen in the way the ending unfolded without apparent respect for player choices.

Thedas must have millions of inhabitants, so please pick new people to drive the stories of your sequels forward rather than recycling the NPC's that we have previously formed attachments to, or killed off, as another character.

[SirGladiator]

I dont think it was a big deal about Leliana possibly being dead. I mean, who would really kill Leliana? So few people that it doesnt really matter. Of course theres always the explanation that the maker resurrected her, just like he did the Warden in the DAO Expansion if the Warden died at the end of DAO. But either way, theres just no logical reason to not bring back a huge fan favorite just because a few people might've killed them. If most people killed them, then yes, they should probably just be dead or otherwise gone, but if its somebody like Leliana, Morrigan, Varric, Merrill, etc. folks that most everybody likes, then I say just ignore the few folks that might've tried to kill them for whatever reason, and I'm glad they did that in DA2.

[SetecAstronomy]

I, for one, look forward to seeing Wynne and Shale kickin' it Sex & the City style in Orlais.

Modifié par SetecAstronomy, 17 mai 2012 - 03:03 .

[jackofalltrades456]

nerdage wrote...

Filament wrote...

So it only bothered you based on meta-knowledge of a retcon you never experienced?

Not saying that's necessarily wrong or anything, just... interesting. {smilie}

Speaking personally, it concerns me a bit to think which choices I made previously might be side-stepped down the line. Leliana specifically returning never bothered me in the least since I've never killed her and the more she's around the better as far as I'm concerned (but it is still a bit of a cheesy hand-wave, at least as it stands now), but the boot might not always be on the same foot..

Minor spoilers

Edit: Yeah,  it got me a bit nervous on what other choices could be next. Yes, her death was the worst in the lot, but I felt that the rest of your decisions with her were waved-off completely. Alistair's and an unbugged Zevran's appearances would vary depending on choices you had with them in Origins. Alistair could appear as either a drunk or a king. Zevran could reject Isabela's offer if he romanced the Warden or he wouldn't even appear at all if you killed him. With Leliana it didn't seem to matter if you left her in Lothering, romanced her, or if she's hardened. She would always receive the default outcome of being an agent of the Chantry. She'll just briefly mention these choices then just brush all of them as if they're nothing and had no effect on her character. This is an extreme tacky thing to do when you're selling a game with "Your choices will matter through imported saves' when in truth only some of them do.

Filament wrote...

Aside from the possibility of him dying and possible timeline issues, what they did to Anders to "radically change" him isn't a retcon... it's character development.

He was retconned. Apparently he would always appear as a grey warden who merged with Justice, even if he was both handed over to to the chantry, wasn't conscripted in the Wardens, or never even meet Justice. This was what happened to me. I had both handed Anders over to the templar and killed Justice, and he still appeared in Dragon Age 2 as a possessed grey warden.

I confess,"radically changed" was a poor choice of words, but i still think that they went a bit OOC with him in Dragon Age 2. He goes from being this comical, witty, and sarcastic apostate mage to an extremely zealous, hateful, mass murdering manic.

Modifié par jackofalltrades456, 17 mai 2012 - 10:11 .