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[BatmanTurian]

memorysquid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

But what is the point of making a giant switcheroo and then telling no one?  Movies with huge twists actually reveal them.  If they had tried a reveal that ME3 was all a dream, I actually would have asked for my money back.  Nothing is lamer than trying to walk back your artistic choices by disavowing the reality of your made up world.  Boxing Helena for instance made me want to puke.

I don't know, maybe you were supposed to use your brain? I know that sounds wierd in a sci-fi setting but bear with me...

Using your brain a good thing.  Using your brain to invent evidence out of whole cloth is not a good thing.  Any story at all could have "And the main character in it was really a brain in a jar!" slapped onto it without contradicting most of the story.  You need decent reasons to assume the statement would be true though.  Movies like Memento, The Usual Suspects, etc., make sense without the reveal, they just don't make the same sense.  Without the reveal, you have no reason to assume Guy Pearce is inventing his past, no reason to assume Kevin Spacey made it all up.  Unless they are lying, and they don't clarify the endings but slap Shepard waking up onto the end, IT is just a neat idea that happens not to reflect anything in ME3.

It's hilarious when you say Indoctrination Theory doesn't reflect anything in the ME universe when indoctrination has been the main reaper weapon since day one. It's like saying Daedra don't exist in the Elder Scrolls universe and that their influence and the fact that they speak to the player doesn't mean they exist or that they could influence the player.

[BansheeOwnage]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

I wish they'd give us a "Reapers win" ending. I'd just go with that and forget about the space magic.

They told us that there would in fact be a "Reapers win" ending. No uncertain terms. Of course, it'd be like the "Lavos wins" ending of Chrono Trigger but there nonetheless.

I think this is a very strong IT point, because the Reapers can't win in the literal ending.

This is a very good point. Unless they lied. I doubt it, or at least I hope not.

[Salient Archer]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Hmm, I just hope for an explanation on how Shepard survived in the destroy ending cinematic, Considering it defies both everyday science and logic I'd like an explanation that doesn't need me to rewrite the rules of physics and thermal dynamics to have it make sense.

Our explanation: It never happened.

Anti-IT and Literalists:


I prefer the logical conclusion thankyouveramuch.

Exactly, a lot of literalists that have tried to challenge the post I made about how it's physically impossible to survive the citadel explosion only ever answer with:

"BioWare got lazy" - Possible, but doubtful (They did just make a 2GB ending for free)
"A wizard did it" - Do I even need to go there?
"He found a bunker with a kinetic barrier" - When, how and barriers don't work like that.
"He ran to one of the wards" - So Shepard could access the speed force this whole time?

As only one of them is a logical answer and a doubtful one at that, I'll take science as proof of things not seeming what they really are.

Yes, the logical conclusion is that the Catalyst made Shepard into Superman. Totally makes sense. It's all so clear now.

I know right!, how could we be so blind?  I meen, all the evidence is there: Flight (Biotic Charge), Invulnerability (Narrative mode), X-ray vision (Sniper scope upgrade), Heat vision (Incinerate/Carnage), Freeze Breath (Cryo Blast), Health regeneration and Longevity (Lazarus project).

[David7204]

I feel sick.

[NoSpin]

UrgedDuke wrote...

whatever happens, it's been an honor serving with you guys

Just wanted to second this notion. We speculated the hell out of this thing.

[Rifneno]

BleedingUranium wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

I wish they'd give us a "Reapers win" ending. I'd just go with that and forget about the space magic.

They told us that there would in fact be a "Reapers win" ending. No uncertain terms. Of course, it'd be like the "Lavos wins" ending of Chrono Trigger but there nonetheless.

I think this is a very strong IT point, because the Reapers can't win in the literal ending.

They said a lot of things that simply are flat out untrue in the literal ending.  The current ending regardless of interpretation.  Like "saving or destroying the rachni queen will play a major role" or "it won't be an A, B, C type of ending, you won't be able to simply categorize them."

[BansheeOwnage]

liggy002 wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

I hold out some small hope for the IT for some reason but it really doesn't look good. And so, I will not be holding out my wallet anymore. I refuse to support this catastrophe.

I'd play the EC out before condemning.

   Yes, of course.  Merizan confirmed there was no combat though.  I know that people have said you can't take what she says at face value but after seeing that video with Walters and Hudson, it just feels like the truth to me.  No combat = no more Bioware for me.

  I really do hope I am wrong.

Serious question: What would any new combat entail/why would we need any?

[memorysquid]

liggy002 wrote...

cavs25 wrote...

They are going to do what I feared.
No one is wrong, it is what you think is it.
I hate this type of ambigous story telling

It's unacceptable.   I wont stand for it.

It is the absence of story telling.  I will think twice about a series produced by Casey Hudson for sure, if that is the case.

[BatmanTurian]

memorysquid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

BansheeOwnage wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Shepard for Space-Hitler. Heil, Synthesis.

This I get not at all.  I am hoping it means you think synthesis is bad for some reason?

For some reason? You mean there is actually a reason Synthesis isn't bad? do tell...

It deeply depresses me that some people agree with synthesis.

You'd think a world war, a Haulocaust, the physics impossibility of it (laws of thermodynamics) and other things would make anyone cringe. But no, apparently space magic eugenics is just dandy.

Again, how are you equating some hand waving made up nonsense with the Holocaust, WWII and ignoring all the other errors of physics and made up nonsense in the game?

Synthesis is rape of the entire galaxy, making everyone into the same master race, oh and it rapes physics too. It's just all kinds of stupid on a literal level in the game.

[TiminatorT2000]

liggy002 wrote...



It's unacceptable.   I wont stand for it.

I think this is something both people who believe and don't believe in IT can stand for.  The ME series has never had an inception or matrix like feel to it, it's a straight forward scifi story with simple "bad guys". An ambiguous ending just dosen't work for the Mass Effect series and we shouldn't stand for it.

[Dwailing]

Rifneno, up for some MP?

[Humakt83]

liggy002 wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

I hold out some small hope for the IT for some reason but it really doesn't look good. And so, I will not be holding out my wallet anymore. I refuse to support this catastrophe.

I'd play the EC out before condemning.

   Yes, of course.  Merizan confirmed there was no combat though.  I know that people have said you can't take what she says at face value but after seeing that video with Walters and Hudson, it just feels like the truth to me.  No combat = no more Bioware for me.

  I really do hope I am wrong.

Have you seen this? One of the many possibilities and it easily fits in tens minutes of cutscene.

[BatmanTurian]

Salient Archer wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Hmm, I just hope for an explanation on how Shepard survived in the destroy ending cinematic, Considering it defies both everyday science and logic I'd like an explanation that doesn't need me to rewrite the rules of physics and thermal dynamics to have it make sense.

Our explanation: It never happened.

Anti-IT and Literalists:


I prefer the logical conclusion thankyouveramuch.

Exactly, a lot of literalists that have tried to challenge the post I made about how it's physically impossible to survive the citadel explosion only ever answer with:

"BioWare got lazy" - Possible, but doubtful (They did just make a 2GB ending for free)
"A wizard did it" - Do I even need to go there?
"He found a bunker with a kinetic barrier" - When, how and barriers don't work like that.
"He ran to one of the wards" - So Shepard could access the speed force this whole time?

As only one of them is a logical answer and a doubtful one at that, I'll take science as proof of things not seeming what they really are.

Yes, the logical conclusion is that the Catalyst made Shepard into Superman. Totally makes sense. It's all so clear now.

I know right!, how could we be so blind?  I meen, all the evidence is there: Flight (Biotic Charge), Invulnerability (Narrative mode), X-ray vision (Sniper scope upgrade), Heat vision (Incinerate/Carnage), Freeze Breath (Cryo Blast), Health regeneration and Longevity (Lazarus project).

All Shepard needs is a big S on his uniform and we can call him Shepard-man... or something. It's late and I'm running out of jokes.

But Shepard surviving Destroy is all kinds of stupid. Like multiple kinds that require brain damage to accept.

[memorysquid]

BatmanTurian wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

But what is the point of making a giant switcheroo and then telling no one?  Movies with huge twists actually reveal them.  If they had tried a reveal that ME3 was all a dream, I actually would have asked for my money back.  Nothing is lamer than trying to walk back your artistic choices by disavowing the reality of your made up world.  Boxing Helena for instance made me want to puke.

I don't know, maybe you were supposed to use your brain? I know that sounds wierd in a sci-fi setting but bear with me...

Using your brain a good thing.  Using your brain to invent evidence out of whole cloth is not a good thing.  Any story at all could have "And the main character in it was really a brain in a jar!" slapped onto it without contradicting most of the story.  You need decent reasons to assume the statement would be true though.  Movies like Memento, The Usual Suspects, etc., make sense without the reveal, they just don't make the same sense.  Without the reveal, you have no reason to assume Guy Pearce is inventing his past, no reason to assume Kevin Spacey made it all up.  Unless they are lying, and they don't clarify the endings but slap Shepard waking up onto the end, IT is just a neat idea that happens not to reflect anything in ME3.

It's hilarious when you say Indoctrination Theory doesn't reflect anything in the ME universe when indoctrination has been the main reaper weapon since day one. It's like saying Daedra don't exist in the Elder Scrolls universe and that their influence and the fact that they speak to the player doesn't mean they exist or that they could influence the player.

Way to ignore the forest for the trees.  There are husks in the ME universe too.  I can come up with a consistent theory that Shep is a husk; absent evidence from the writers, I'd be as wrong as you.  When did Shep spend a lot of time around a Reaper or Reaper indoctrination device?  Never.  So your theory is unsupported by evidence.

[BleedingUranium]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

I hold out some small hope for the IT for some reason but it really doesn't look good. And so, I will not be holding out my wallet anymore. I refuse to support this catastrophe.

I'd play the EC out before condemning.

   Yes, of course.  Merizan confirmed there was no combat though.  I know that people have said you can't take what she says at face value but after seeing that video with Walters and Hudson, it just feels like the truth to me.  No combat = no more Bioware for me.

  I really do hope I am wrong.

Serious question: What would any new combat entail/why would we need any?

Especially since there is no combat from the moment you fire the Thanix Missiles (unless you count Marauder Shields and the husks, which I don't). That's a lot of gameplay with no combat. How long, like, 20-30 minutes worth?

[Rifneno]

memorysquid wrote...

Again, how are you equating some hand waving made up nonsense with the Holocaust, WWII and ignoring all the other errors of physics and made up nonsense in the game?

You really have less than no idea what you're talking about.  While a few bends in realism are unavoidable in any science fiction, they've bent over backwards to keep Mass Effect as scientifically grounded as possible.  QEC, the science behind the javelin sniper rifle, the... you know what?  Here.  An article by someone with more scientific credentials than you or I even know to exist and he's praising ME's incredibly attention to scientific realism.

[Salient Archer]

Honestly everyone; there's no need to worry one way or another. We don't know anything for sure yet, they've given us no answers and only a few screenshots that may or may not even make it into the game for all we know. The interview was incredibly vague and gave us no new information and no absolutes. Can anyone show me any proof that IT has been said to be untrue?, has there been any official word on the subject? that's right, there isn't. So stay calm, stay civil to each other and just wait for the 26th to roll around and just prey that one way or another what BioWare has offered us is going to be a fitting end.

[dreamgazer]

David7204 wrote...

I feel sick.

I wouldn't, not yet.  Three months of dev and nearly 2GB of material isn't something to sneeze at.

[BansheeOwnage]

memorysquid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

But what is the point of making a giant switcheroo and then telling no one?  Movies with huge twists actually reveal them.  If they had tried a reveal that ME3 was all a dream, I actually would have asked for my money back.  Nothing is lamer than trying to walk back your artistic choices by disavowing the reality of your made up world.  Boxing Helena for instance made me want to puke.

I don't know, maybe you were supposed to use your brain? I know that sounds wierd in a sci-fi setting but bear with me...

Using your brain a good thing.  Using your brain to invent evidence out of whole cloth is not a good thing.  Any story at all could have "And the main character in it was really a brain in a jar!" slapped onto it without contradicting most of the story.  You need decent reasons to assume the statement would be true though.  Movies like Memento, The Usual Suspects, etc., make sense without the reveal, they just don't make the same sense.  Without the reveal, you have no reason to assume Guy Pearce is inventing his past, no reason to assume Kevin Spacey made it all up.  Unless they are lying, and they don't clarify the endings but slap Shepard waking up onto the end, IT is just a neat idea that happens not to reflect anything in ME3.

It's hilarious when you say Indoctrination Theory doesn't reflect anything in the ME universe when indoctrination has been the main reaper weapon since day one. It's like saying Daedra don't exist in the Elder Scrolls universe and that their influence and the fact that they speak to the player doesn't mean they exist or that they could influence the player.

Way to ignore the forest for the trees.  There are husks in the ME universe too.  I can come up with a consistent theory that Shep is a husk; absent evidence from the writers, I'd be as wrong as you.  When did Shep spend a lot of time around a Reaper or Reaper indoctrination device?  Never.  So your theory is unsupported by evidence.

Someone never played Arrival

[Rifneno]

Dwailing wrote...

Rifneno, up for some MP?

Sorry, trying to make a quick canon playthrough before EC.  Not really satisfied with the ones I have ATM.  Spent too much time analyzing things and not enough making the choices I want to make.

[BleedingUranium]

memorysquid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

But what is the point of making a giant switcheroo and then telling no one?  Movies with huge twists actually reveal them.  If they had tried a reveal that ME3 was all a dream, I actually would have asked for my money back.  Nothing is lamer than trying to walk back your artistic choices by disavowing the reality of your made up world.  Boxing Helena for instance made me want to puke.

I don't know, maybe you were supposed to use your brain? I know that sounds wierd in a sci-fi setting but bear with me...

Using your brain a good thing.  Using your brain to invent evidence out of whole cloth is not a good thing.  Any story at all could have "And the main character in it was really a brain in a jar!" slapped onto it without contradicting most of the story.  You need decent reasons to assume the statement would be true though.  Movies like Memento, The Usual Suspects, etc., make sense without the reveal, they just don't make the same sense.  Without the reveal, you have no reason to assume Guy Pearce is inventing his past, no reason to assume Kevin Spacey made it all up.  Unless they are lying, and they don't clarify the endings but slap Shepard waking up onto the end, IT is just a neat idea that happens not to reflect anything in ME3.

It's hilarious when you say Indoctrination Theory doesn't reflect anything in the ME universe when indoctrination has been the main reaper weapon since day one. It's like saying Daedra don't exist in the Elder Scrolls universe and that their influence and the fact that they speak to the player doesn't mean they exist or that they could influence the player.

Way to ignore the forest for the trees.  There are husks in the ME universe too.  I can come up with a consistent theory that Shep is a husk; absent evidence from the writers, I'd be as wrong as you.  When did Shep spend a lot of time around a Reaper or Reaper indoctrination device?  Never.  So your theory is unsupported by evidence.

You're right, we really have no evidence at all 

To your second point, in Arrival. Don't try to argue, Arrival is canon, Bioware says so. Didn't do it? Sucks to be you, basically.

[cavs25]

lol 4 months and complete silence for 10 minutes of cutscenes...sighh we knew
we just didn't want to believe... the last thing you lose is hope

[BansheeOwnage]

Rifneno wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

Again, how are you equating some hand waving made up nonsense with the Holocaust, WWII and ignoring all the other errors of physics and made up nonsense in the game?

You really have less than no idea what you're talking about.  While a few bends in realism are unavoidable in any science fiction, they've bent over backwards to keep Mass Effect as scientifically grounded as possible.  QEC, the science behind the javelin sniper rifle, the... you know what?  Here.  An article by someone with more scientific credentials than you or I even know to exist and he's praising ME's incredibly attention to scientific realism.

Thanks for the link; added it to favourites

[BatmanTurian]

memorysquid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

But what is the point of making a giant switcheroo and then telling no one?  Movies with huge twists actually reveal them.  If they had tried a reveal that ME3 was all a dream, I actually would have asked for my money back.  Nothing is lamer than trying to walk back your artistic choices by disavowing the reality of your made up world.  Boxing Helena for instance made me want to puke.

I don't know, maybe you were supposed to use your brain? I know that sounds wierd in a sci-fi setting but bear with me...

Using your brain a good thing.  Using your brain to invent evidence out of whole cloth is not a good thing.  Any story at all could have "And the main character in it was really a brain in a jar!" slapped onto it without contradicting most of the story.  You need decent reasons to assume the statement would be true though.  Movies like Memento, The Usual Suspects, etc., make sense without the reveal, they just don't make the same sense.  Without the reveal, you have no reason to assume Guy Pearce is inventing his past, no reason to assume Kevin Spacey made it all up.  Unless they are lying, and they don't clarify the endings but slap Shepard waking up onto the end, IT is just a neat idea that happens not to reflect anything in ME3.

It's hilarious when you say Indoctrination Theory doesn't reflect anything in the ME universe when indoctrination has been the main reaper weapon since day one. It's like saying Daedra don't exist in the Elder Scrolls universe and that their influence and the fact that they speak to the player doesn't mean they exist or that they could influence the player.

Way to ignore the forest for the trees.  There are husks in the ME universe too.  I can come up with a consistent theory that Shep is a husk; absent evidence from the writers, I'd be as wrong as you.  When did Shep spend a lot of time around a Reaper or Reaper indoctrination device?  Never.  So your theory is unsupported by evidence.

OMG, are you serious? NEVER? WTF has Shepard been doing through all three games?

No, you can't seriously be this dense... You've got to be trolling.

[Salient Archer]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Salient Archer wrote...

Hmm, I just hope for an explanation on how Shepard survived in the destroy ending cinematic, Considering it defies both everyday science and logic I'd like an explanation that doesn't need me to rewrite the rules of physics and thermal dynamics to have it make sense.

Our explanation: It never happened.

Anti-IT and Literalists:


I prefer the logical conclusion thankyouveramuch.

Exactly, a lot of literalists that have tried to challenge the post I made about how it's physically impossible to survive the citadel explosion only ever answer with:

"BioWare got lazy" - Possible, but doubtful (They did just make a 2GB ending for free)
"A wizard did it" - Do I even need to go there?
"He found a bunker with a kinetic barrier" - When, how and barriers don't work like that.
"He ran to one of the wards" - So Shepard could access the speed force this whole time?

As only one of them is a logical answer and a doubtful one at that, I'll take science as proof of things not seeming what they really are.

Yes, the logical conclusion is that the Catalyst made Shepard into Superman. Totally makes sense. It's all so clear now.

I know right!, how could we be so blind?  I meen, all the evidence is there: Flight (Biotic Charge), Invulnerability (Narrative mode), X-ray vision (Sniper scope upgrade), Heat vision (Incinerate/Carnage), Freeze Breath (Cryo Blast), Health regeneration and Longevity (Lazarus project).

All Shepard needs is a big S on his uniform and we can call him Shepard-man... or something. It's late and I'm running out of jokes.

But Shepard surviving Destroy is all kinds of stupid. Like multiple kinds that require brain damage to accept.

But yet people accept it ... guess it just demonstrates how far the suspension of reality has gone ... I for one blame Michael Bay for this cultural phenomenon.