55528 réponses à ce sujet

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Good thing I kept my mouth shut lol.

Why, who'd you think Amon was?

That answer shall go with me to the grave!

Aww, dont be like that!

I kind of thought Amon was Tarrlok until they finally appeared in a scene together a few episodes back.

[byne]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

 Does anyone know if more was found from looking through the files except for:

*snip*

and



Which obviously hint at the entire theory being true.

That was debunked as being fake ages ago.

[DirtyPhoenix]

byne wrote...



But sending a bunch of marines out to break Kenson out of jail makes no sense. Hackett didnt know about her discovery of Object Rho. He sent you there to break Kenson out, not to blow up the relay. He straight up said sending a team of marines would cause the batarians to just execute Kenson, which is why you had to go alone.

Well it can be argued that Hackett sent his team of marines in the same sense that he sent Shepard and her whole Normandy crew,  maybe only one of that team of marines was meant to infiltrate the prison like Shepard did, while the others would provide supprt if necessary..

[BansheeOwnage]

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

byne wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

Shepard awoke two days later, with only a few hours remaining to initiate the Project. .

It is possible to not buy that DLC. In that case, War Assets will have that message.

Admiral Hackett dispatched marines to the planet Aratoht to rescue a deep cover agent, Dr. Amanda Kenson. The teams were killed in an explosion that wiped out both the colony and the system's relay. The Alliance spent weeks piecing together scattered radio transmissions, learning that the marines felt they had no choice but to send an asteroid into the relay to prevent invasion by the Reapers. While it bought the Alliance some time, the men and women lost on the mission were a severe blow to the 103rd Marine Corps.

Except Arrival is made canon by one of the comics. The same comic that set up the fact that James is the one guarding Shepard. So you cant really call the comic non-canon.

For the Mass Effect games, anything that is in the games themselves trump anything found in other media. As events change distinctly depending on whether you did Arrival or not, we can safely assume from the game itself that Shepard actually doing Arrival is not canon

But sending a bunch of marines out to break Kenson out of jail makes no sense. Hackett didnt know about her discovery of Object Rho. He sent you there to break Kenson out, not to blow up the relay. He straight up said sending a team of marines would cause the batarians to just execute Kenson, which is why you had to go alone.

Creator-Byne is correct. The story about the marines makes no sense and is an excuse for the reapers not coming through the alpha relay 6 months prior to the game's start. Also, although games may be more canon than other media in general, it is the opposite for Mass Effect. If you cannot understand why, I don't think I can help you anymore.

[Andromidius]

byne wrote...

But sending a bunch of marines out to break Kenson out of jail makes no sense. Hackett didnt know about her discovery of Object Rho. He sent you there to break Kenson out, not to blow up the relay. He straight up said sending a team of marines would cause the batarians to just execute Kenson, which is why you had to go alone.

Honestly its one DLC that should have just been added to the in-game canon regardless of if you completed it or not.  Just like Udina is always Counciller regardless of previous choices, and there's always a Council even if you kill them off.

Its just such a weird way of doing it.  The Marines weren't the right choice for the mission, and ignoring it happened would mean the Reapers reached Earth and won 6 months before ME3.

Also why would Shepard be on trial otherwise?  Working with Cerberus, despite also helping the Alliance repeatedly and then backstabbing TIM and taking a good portion of his resources after defeating a massive threat to the Galaxy?  Nah, hardly.

But blowing up a Batarian colony?  Even for the best of reasons?  Hell yes.

Modifié par Andromidius, 23 juin 2012 - 05:21 .

[v0rt3x22]

byne wrote...

That was debunked as being fake ages ago.

Ok fair enough. Was a model found for the ghostly version? =P

Modifié par v0rt3x22, 23 juin 2012 - 05:22 .

[zambot]

dreamgazer wrote...

zambot wrote...

If Shepard doing Arrival was "canon", then ME3 would have had a little blurb about him being responsible for it instead of attributing it to marines.

I'n not sure exactly how that dynamic works, but I have read this:

DESTRUCTOID write ...

Having said that, the consequences of Shepard's actions could play a huge role in the Mass Effect 3 storyline, but it's too early to tell for sure. With less than 9 months on the calendar, and little indication of how much creative control the DLC creators have had with respect to affecting the storyline of the upcoming chapter in the sci-fi epic, it might only have side-quest levels of consequences in the end. (Mass Effect 3 designer Manveer Heir has since told me that Arrival's story "was driven/approved by the head writer so it's all canon & relevant.")

So let me get this straight.  IT, a theory which attempts to explain away bugs and plot holes by saying it was all part of the genius Bioware's story telling to set up an unprecedented plot twist refuses to acknowledge that Arrival is not "canon" in the sense that all Shepards must have done it, and explain away the marines destroying Object Rho plot resolution as a "bug"?

I think the better answer for IT is that Object Rho is not how Shepard gets indoctrinated.  He is indoctrinated through some other means not (yet) revealed to us.

[EpyonX3]

Andromidius wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...
Or just paranoid because they didn't understand what was happening. If indoctrinated, wouldn't there have been suggestions like keeping the artifact in tact like Object Rho?

Considering the artifact is completely intact, I think we can cover that base.  If we found a smoking crater you might have a point.

I don't remember that much about that mission, but the logs would have displayed very different attitudes from the doctor if the device was Reaper.

1) The doctor wouldn't be scared of it. It would view it as an awesome device that can read minds!
2) Wouldn't dare destroy it because of how much it can learn from it
3) Would turn on anyone to protect it from harm
4) Welcome the reapers with open arms

The fact that the logs say the Doctor wanted it destroyed is evidence enough for me that it wasn't reaper. That and reaper artifacts also haven't been seen stealing thoughts. They actually just alter yours and you share the thoughts willingly.

Also keep in mind that protheans had different moral standards then us. If they wanted to go in one direction you did it or you were useless and discarded. So a device that just steals your thoughts without consent sounds prothean to me.

[masster blaster]

[quote]masster blaster wrote...

[quote]masster blaster wrote...

[quote]masster blaster wrote...

[

[
Well if EC does not prove IT is right (which EC will prove it is right) then how are they going to explain the Normandy? They can't just say " oh the Normandy and the crew left Shepard because they were told to" no I am sorry that's some bull ****. They would never leave Shepard to die and you know what's funny when you think about Control, and Synthesis both are similar.

All it really does is save the Reapers, but Control turns you into a reaper, and synthesis well some Collector crap like when we found out the Collectors were the Prothean's. So I have a feeling that once we pick Control, or synthesis it's going to stat off great but then truth would be reviled that all of this was for nothing, and the Reapers start the cycle again after a few years have passed.

All so all Shepard did was combine his, or her energy to the Crucible and just gave new DNA and that's it, so the Reapers can still start killing all organic life all over again and, when Shepard picks control THE GOD CHILD SMILES, so what about Destroy.

Well all I can say is that the cut scene were Shepard breaths is after the Normandy crash lands on that planet. You also have to take in account that it is the only scene after the Normandy crashes which also helps IT so there you go.[/quote]
[/quote]

But just because they tell us what is going to happen they don't mean
there would be more to it, I mean look at our governments have they told
use a truth that was going to revel something horrible, or good. No
they make statement about some of the truth but later revel the
information when the time is right, and it ruins the surprise they have
in stored for use if they tell use what will and may not happen so keep
believing in IT and if you lose hope the go to the IT site again.


[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]

[byne]

Andromidius wrote...

byne wrote...

But sending a bunch of marines out to break Kenson out of jail makes no sense. Hackett didnt know about her discovery of Object Rho. He sent you there to break Kenson out, not to blow up the relay. He straight up said sending a team of marines would cause the batarians to just execute Kenson, which is why you had to go alone.

Honestly its one DLC that should have just been added to the in-game canon regardless of if you completed it or not.  Just like Udina is always Counciller regardless of previous choices, and there's always a Council even if you kill them off.

Its just such a weird way of doing it.  The Marines weren't the right choice for the mission, and ignoring it happened would mean the Reapers reached Earth and won 6 months before ME3.

Also why would Shepard be on trial otherwise?  Working with Cerberus, despite also helping the Alliance repeatedly and then backstabbing TIM and taking a good portion of his resources after defeating a massive threat to the Galaxy?  Nah, hardly.

But blowing up a Batarian colony?  Even for the best of reasons?  Hell yes.

Chakwas worked with Cerberus too, and she was never put on trial. You can argue she got time off for leave from the Alliance, and Shepard didnt, but Shepard died. I think that kind of qualifies you for time off.

Plus, last I checked, even if you were taking time off with approval of your superiors, that doesnt make working with a terrorist organization suddenly more legal.

[dreamgazer]

zambot wrote...

So let me get this straight.  IT, a theory which attempts to explain away bugs and plot holes by saying it was all part of the genius Bioware's story telling to set up an unprecedented plot twist refuses to acknowledge that Arrival is not "canon" in the sense that all Shepards must have done it, and explain away the marines destroying Object Rho plot resolution as a "bug"?

I think the better answer for IT is that Object Rho is not how Shepard gets indoctrinated.  He is indoctrinated through some other means not (yet) revealed to us.

Negative.  I was discussing the merits of Rho as canon or not, another blatant example of Shepard coming in contact with Reaper technology---an example among many.

Ease up there, buddy, and stop demonizing people talking about the idea.

[Andromidius]

zambot wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

zambot wrote...

If Shepard doing Arrival was "canon", then ME3 would have had a little blurb about him being responsible for it instead of attributing it to marines.

I'n not sure exactly how that dynamic works, but I have read this:

DESTRUCTOID write ...

Having said that, the consequences of Shepard's actions could play a huge role in the Mass Effect 3 storyline, but it's too early to tell for sure. With less than 9 months on the calendar, and little indication of how much creative control the DLC creators have had with respect to affecting the storyline of the upcoming chapter in the sci-fi epic, it might only have side-quest levels of consequences in the end. (Mass Effect 3 designer Manveer Heir has since told me that Arrival's story "was driven/approved by the head writer so it's all canon & relevant.")

So let me get this straight.  IT, a theory which attempts to explain away bugs and plot holes by saying it was all part of the genius Bioware's story telling to set up an unprecedented plot twist refuses to acknowledge that Arrival is not "canon" in the sense that all Shepards must have done it, and explain away the marines destroying Object Rho plot resolution as a "bug"?

I think the better answer for IT is that Object Rho is not how Shepard gets indoctrinated.  He is indoctrinated through some other means not (yet) revealed to us.

Who said it was a bug?

And no, we don't use 'bugs and plot holes' as evidence.  Go back to page one, read the links provided, and then come back.

And non-Arrival Shep is about as canon as Dead Shep from ME2.  Yes, it can happen to your Shepard - but its not canon.

[llbountyhunter]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

byne wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

byne wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

Shepard awoke two days later, with only a few hours remaining to initiate the Project. .

It is possible to not buy that DLC. In that case, War Assets will have that message.

Admiral Hackett dispatched marines to the planet Aratoht to rescue a deep cover agent, Dr. Amanda Kenson. The teams were killed in an explosion that wiped out both the colony and the system's relay. The Alliance spent weeks piecing together scattered radio transmissions, learning that the marines felt they had no choice but to send an asteroid into the relay to prevent invasion by the Reapers. While it bought the Alliance some time, the men and women lost on the mission were a severe blow to the 103rd Marine Corps.

Except Arrival is made canon by one of the comics. The same comic that set up the fact that James is the one guarding Shepard. So you cant really call the comic non-canon.

For the Mass Effect games, anything that is in the games themselves trump anything found in other media. As events change distinctly depending on whether you did Arrival or not, we can safely assume from the game itself that Shepard actually doing Arrival is not canon

But sending a bunch of marines out to break Kenson out of jail makes no sense. Hackett didnt know about her discovery of Object Rho. He sent you there to break Kenson out, not to blow up the relay. He straight up said sending a team of marines would cause the batarians to just execute Kenson, which is why you had to go alone.

Creator-Byne is correct. The story about the marines makes no sense and is an excuse for the reapers not coming through the alpha relay 6 months prior to the game's start. Also, although games may be more canon than other media in general, it is the opposite for Mass Effect. If you cannot understand why, I don't think I can help you anymore.

And if you do arrival early, hacket actually gives you permission to work with cerberus to take down the collectors!!

So getting arrested for working with cerberus is even more retarded.

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 23 juin 2012 - 05:30 .

[BansheeOwnage]

pirate1802 wrote...

byne wrote...



But sending a bunch of marines out to break Kenson out of jail makes no sense. Hackett didnt know about her discovery of Object Rho. He sent you there to break Kenson out, not to blow up the relay. He straight up said sending a team of marines would cause the batarians to just execute Kenson, which is why you had to go alone.

Well it can be argued that Hackett sent his team of marines in the same sense that he sent Shepard and her whole Normandy crew,  maybe only one of that team of marines was meant to infiltrate the prison like Shepard did, while the others would provide supprt if necessary..

Yeah, you're right. It could be argued thatHackett sent in his super-1337 normal marines in their new Normandy SR3 stealth ship

[Andromidius]

byne wrote...

Chakwas worked with Cerberus too, and she was never put on trial. You can argue she got time off for leave from the Alliance, and Shepard didnt, but Shepard died. I think that kind of qualifies you for time off.

Plus, last I checked, even if you were taking time off with approval of your superiors, that doesnt make working with a terrorist organization suddenly more legal.

Indeed.  Its a poor plot point that could have been easily avoided.

[zambot]

dreamgazer wrote...

zambot wrote...

So let me get this straight.  IT, a theory which attempts to explain away bugs and plot holes by saying it was all part of the genius Bioware's story telling to set up an unprecedented plot twist refuses to acknowledge that Arrival is not "canon" in the sense that all Shepards must have done it, and explain away the marines destroying Object Rho plot resolution as a "bug"?

I think the better answer for IT is that Object Rho is not how Shepard gets indoctrinated.  He is indoctrinated through some other means not (yet) revealed to us.

Negative.  I was discussing the merits of Rho as canon or not, another blatant example of Shepard coming in contact with Reaper technology---an example among many.

Ease up there, buddy, and stop demonizing people talking about the idea.

I did not "demonize" anyone.  Please stop with the ad hominem attacks.  

It is clear that Arrival is not canon (unless it was a bug in ME3 that marines did it).  And I provided an escape clause for people who believe in IT.  

[byne]

Why is Arrival the only thing I ever see people claim isnt canon, just because its possible not to do it?

Its possible to never recruit Garrus in ME1, but I've never seen anyone claim Garrus isnt a canon ME1 squadmate.

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Good thing I kept my mouth shut lol.

Why, who'd you think Amon was?

That answer shall go with me to the grave!

Aww, dont be like that!

I kind of thought Amon was Tarrlok until they finally appeared in a scene together a few episodes back.

Is Tarrlok the blood bender? if so then yes I think i saw that one.

[masster blaster]

byne wrote...

Why is Arrival the only thing I ever see people claim isnt canon, just because its possible not to do it?

Its possible to never recruit Garrus in ME1, but I've never seen anyone claim Garrus isnt a canon ME1 squadmate.

Also you can pick him up again in ME2 so ya.

[dreamgazer]

byne wrote...

Why is Arrival the only thing I ever see people claim isnt canon, just because its possible not to do it?

Its possible to never recruit Garrus in ME1, but I've never seen anyone claim Garrus isnt a canon ME1 squadmate.

I understand why it gets mentioned: addressing Arrival as canon or not determines its viability as a device used to interpret the fundamentals of the game proper, not just the tone or peripheral elements.

[zambot]

Andromidius wrote...

zambot wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

zambot wrote...

If Shepard doing Arrival was "canon", then ME3 would have had a little blurb about him being responsible for it instead of attributing it to marines.

I'n not sure exactly how that dynamic works, but I have read this:

DESTRUCTOID write ...

Having said that, the consequences of Shepard's actions could play a huge role in the Mass Effect 3 storyline, but it's too early to tell for sure. With less than 9 months on the calendar, and little indication of how much creative control the DLC creators have had with respect to affecting the storyline of the upcoming chapter in the sci-fi epic, it might only have side-quest levels of consequences in the end. (Mass Effect 3 designer Manveer Heir has since told me that Arrival's story "was driven/approved by the head writer so it's all canon & relevant.")

So let me get this straight.  IT, a theory which attempts to explain away bugs and plot holes by saying it was all part of the genius Bioware's story telling to set up an unprecedented plot twist refuses to acknowledge that Arrival is not "canon" in the sense that all Shepards must have done it, and explain away the marines destroying Object Rho plot resolution as a "bug"?

I think the better answer for IT is that Object Rho is not how Shepard gets indoctrinated.  He is indoctrinated through some other means not (yet) revealed to us.

Who said it was a bug?

And no, we don't use 'bugs and plot holes' as evidence.  Go back to page one, read the links provided, and then come back.

And non-Arrival Shep is about as canon as Dead Shep from ME2.  Yes, it can happen to your Shepard - but its not canon.

I did not say you use bugs and plot holes as evidence.  I said the IT explains away bugs and plot holes. This is not in dispute.  It's what the original IT set out to do.  IT tries to make some sense out of the nonsense that is the ending.  Where an IT person finds ways to explain the inconsistencies and BS, I just say it's inconsistent BS.

Yet, by saying that Arrival is cannon, you're leaving some inconsistent BS without an explanation.  I suppose you could say it's just a bug or oversight by Bioware, but that now leaves the door open for a lot more bugs and oversights.

[v0rt3x22]

@Masster blaster - they're really giving you a hard time in the poll ^^

[zambot]

byne wrote...

Why is Arrival the only thing I ever see people claim isnt canon, just because its possible not to do it?

Its possible to never recruit Garrus in ME1, but I've never seen anyone claim Garrus isnt a canon ME1 squadmate.

Because while you are playing ME3, the game provides an explanation for you not doing Arrival.  If you did not to LotSB, ME3 provides an explanation for Liara becoming the Shadow Broker.  That's the difference.  If the story hinged upon Shepard coming into contact with Object Rho, then when you boot up ME3 without that DLC, it would have said he/she did.

[EpyonX3]

Andromidius wrote...

byne wrote...

Chakwas worked with Cerberus too, and she was never put on trial. You can argue she got time off for leave from the Alliance, and Shepard didnt, but Shepard died. I think that kind of qualifies you for time off.

Plus, last I checked, even if you were taking time off with approval of your superiors, that doesnt make working with a terrorist organization suddenly more legal.

Indeed.  Its a poor plot point that could have been easily avoided.

But I'm sure that reports came in that Cerberus indeed stopped the collectors from kidnapping humans. In a sense, they did what the alliance wouldn't or couldn't. I'm sure that had a lot of weight in keeping Shepard from being thrown in jail. That and there are some who believe the reapers exists, like Anderson and maybe Hackett before they arrived.

But because Humanity wants to keep itself in galactic politics, they kept the reaper stuff quiet since the council already "dismissed that claim."

[byne]

zambot wrote...

byne wrote...

Why is Arrival the only thing I ever see people claim isnt canon, just because its possible not to do it?

Its possible to never recruit Garrus in ME1, but I've never seen anyone claim Garrus isnt a canon ME1 squadmate.

Because while you are playing ME3, the game provides an explanation for you not doing Arrival.  If you did not to LotSB, ME3 provides an explanation for Liara becoming the Shadow Broker.  That's the difference.  If the story hinged upon Shepard coming into contact with Object Rho, then when you boot up ME3 without that DLC, it would have said he/she did.

The game also provides alternate dialogue with Garrus on Omega if you didnt recruit him in ME1, and yet still no one claims he isnt canon. My point still stands.