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[MaximizedAction]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Hmmmm

Wasn't that obvious?

yes but some people will always miss the obvious so that question was important to ask her. It got her flustered, that's for sure. Interesting.

She can always refuse to adress tweets. So, it could also be intentional.

[Andromidius]

Well duh. The Reapers are so obviously in Shepard's head I don't even know how someone could argue that point - and Indoctrination is 'getting in someone's head'.

Hense why its not headcanon, its narrative interpretation. Starbinger BLANTANTLY is screwing with Shepard's mind, its just the degree that we're not clued up about yet.

[LazyTechGuy]

Plus, I coupled "Catalyst" with "Reapers" to see if she might infer more about their connection. I'm stretching this one, but she talked about those two as if they were one and the same when the Catalyst specifically said they are different entities.

Curious that she refers to them both as the Reapers.  

EDIT:  But I did forget that the Catalyst said "us" at one point. 

Modifié par LazyTechGuy, 23 juin 2012 - 09:39 .

[Humakt83]

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Nothing in ME3 is "obvious" anymore. You'd think IT would be obvious. For someone who has played the EC multiple times to say that that's an interesting and intentional discussion point ... that could mean something.

On the other hand, it could just mean it's only a "discussion point" and intentional from the perspective of continued speculation.

I'm not condemning your question but rather Jessica's reply. I'm afraid she's not the brightest bulb around. No offense.

[Andromidius]

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Plus, I coupled "Catalyst" with "Reapers" to see if she might infer more about their connection. I'm stretching this one, but she talked about those two as if they were one and the same when the Catalyst specifically said they are different entities.

Curious that she refers to them both as the Reapers.

While I'm not going to use what she said as being confirmation, the answer to your question is interesting.  Especially considering how strongly you led the question.  So unless she's throwing you off the scent...

[Dwailing]

Humakt83 wrote...

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Nothing in ME3 is "obvious" anymore. You'd think IT would be obvious. For someone who has played the EC multiple times to say that that's an interesting and intentional discussion point ... that could mean something.

On the other hand, it could just mean it's only a "discussion point" and intentional from the perspective of continued speculation.

I'm not condemning your question but rather Jessica's reply. I'm afraid she's not the brightest bulb around. No offense.

Actually, based on the fact that she's been able to keep all of us in the dark while still keeping us hanging on her every word no matter how much we say we're going to start ignoring her, I think she's a frakking genius.

[Nightingale]

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Plus, I coupled "Catalyst" with "Reapers" to see if she might infer more about their connection. I'm stretching this one, but she talked about those two as if they were one and the same when the Catalyst specifically said they are different entities.

Curious that she refers to them both as the Reapers.

Forgive me if I've missed something, I haven't read anything else posted today, but I thought the consensus on that was that the "Catalyst" was lying and it's pretty much just a form the Reapers took to speak with Shepard without seeming so threatening; something s/he can sympathise with.

[LazyTechGuy]

Humakt, I know. I wasn't being defensive or anything

Obvious for us maybe, but there's a thread on the front page that's wondering how the Catalyst knew to pick the image of the child. The Reapers being in Shepard's head, however small, means IT has to have some merit.

[Starbuck8]

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Nothing in ME3 is "obvious" anymore. You'd think IT would be obvious. For someone who has played the EC multiple times to say that that's an interesting and intentional discussion point ... that could mean something.

On the other hand, it could just mean it's only a "discussion point" and intentional from the perspective of continued speculation.

It's obviously not obvious to some literalists...

[Andromidius]

Dwailing wrote...

Actually, based on the fact that she's been able to keep all of us in the dark while still keeping us hanging on her every word no matter how much we say we're going to start ignoring her, I think she's a frakking genius.

Fringe logic, but that would be an amazing twist.  Get someone to say inaccurate things on twitter for a while (maybe by making sure she isn't clued up on details), then later on give her the details to hint at knowing that no-one is going to take her completely seriously.  Thus, speculations for everyone.

[Big G13]

Dwailing wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Nothing in ME3 is "obvious" anymore. You'd think IT would be obvious. For someone who has played the EC multiple times to say that that's an interesting and intentional discussion point ... that could mean something.

On the other hand, it could just mean it's only a "discussion point" and intentional from the perspective of continued speculation.

I'm not condemning your question but rather Jessica's reply. I'm afraid she's not the brightest bulb around. No offense.

Actually, based on the fact that she's been able to keep all of us in the dark while still keeping us hanging on her every word no matter how much we say we're going to start ignoring her, I think she's a frakking genius.

Yea, but your bias. She being your girlfriend and all.

[Dwailing]

Big G13 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Humakt83 wrote...

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Nothing in ME3 is "obvious" anymore. You'd think IT would be obvious. For someone who has played the EC multiple times to say that that's an interesting and intentional discussion point ... that could mean something.

On the other hand, it could just mean it's only a "discussion point" and intentional from the perspective of continued speculation.

I'm not condemning your question but rather Jessica's reply. I'm afraid she's not the brightest bulb around. No offense.

Actually, based on the fact that she's been able to keep all of us in the dark while still keeping us hanging on her every word no matter how much we say we're going to start ignoring her, I think she's a frakking genius.

Yea, but your bias. She being your girlfriend and all.

Heh, if only.  Unfortunately, she's too old for me.  In another universe though...

[BatmanTurian]

Starbuck8 wrote...

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Nothing in ME3 is "obvious" anymore. You'd think IT would be obvious. For someone who has played the EC multiple times to say that that's an interesting and intentional discussion point ... that could mean something.

On the other hand, it could just mean it's only a "discussion point" and intentional from the perspective of continued speculation.

It's obviously not obvious to some literalists...

You'd think the dreams and the catalyst saying he's a reaper and that he takes the form of a boy shepard has seen would be enough to get people to critically think. Alas, I think we really do live in an idiocracy sometimes.

[Andromidius]

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Humakt, I know. I wasn't being defensive or anything

Obvious for us maybe, but there's a thread on the front page that's wondering how the Catalyst knew to pick the image of the child. The Reapers being in Shepard's head, however small, means IT has to have some merit.

Indeed.  Like I mentioned before, its just a case of degrees.

On a very basic level:

1/ Star Child scanned Shepard's mind to use the image of the child to calm Shepard for their conversation.
2/ Star Child scanned Shepard's mind to use the image of the child to manipulate Shepard's choices.
3/ Star Child placed the image of the child in Shepard's mind to manipulate Shepard's choices.
4/ Everything leading up to the Star Child is an illusion placed in Shepard's mind to manipulate Shepard.

At least one of those has to be true.  Not unless you want to throw so much exposition and headcanon at it to explain quite how Star Child (Starbinger) looks like a Child in Shepard's dreams.

[MaximizedAction]

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Humakt, I know. I wasn't being defensive or anything

Obvious for us maybe, but there's a thread on the front page that's wondering how the Catalyst knew to pick the image of the child. The Reapers being in Shepard's head, however small, means IT has to have some merit.

Exactly.
Even literalists belief that TIM is controlling Shepard in the Citadel dialog, so they too are confronted by IT. And any reasonable thoughtprocess eventually ends up at the question: "Wait a minute, why aren't the Reapers indoctrinating Shepard?"

And that thing about setting equal the Catalyst and the Reapers. The Catalyst himself switches back and forth between "they are MY solution" and "because WE already controlled him".

So it's mentioned in the game that that Starbrat can also be called a Reaper, since he openly uses the "We" form.

[HyperGlass]

Andromidius wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Actually, based on the fact that she's been able to keep all of us in the dark while still keeping us hanging on her every word no matter how much we say we're going to start ignoring her, I think she's a frakking genius.

Fringe logic, but that would be an amazing twist.  Get someone to say inaccurate things on twitter for a while (maybe by making sure she isn't clued up on details), then later on give her the details to hint at knowing that no-one is going to take her completely seriously.  Thus, speculations for everyone.

Also, given the fact that some people thought IT was disproved when she said Shep was actully in space. Then it turned out to be an opinion, meaning, some people are taking ever word seriously.

[LazyTechGuy]

Right so at the very WORST, the Reapers are in Shepard's head, they are extracting information and they quite possibly are influencing his dreams since they later used this technique in the final scene.

Seems like the only debate at this point is if they can get information INTO his head. But clearly, they can get stuff out.

[Dwailing]

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Right so at the very WORST, the Reapers are in Shepard's head, they are extracting information and they quite possibly are influencing his dreams since they later used this technique in the final scene.

Seems like the only debate at this point is if they can get information INTO his head. But clearly, they can get stuff out.

And if they can get stuff OUT, then it's only a small step to being able to get stuff IN.  Hence, Indoctrination Theory.

[Andromidius]

HyperGlass wrote...
Also, given the fact that some people thought IT was disproved when she said Shep was actully in space. Then it turned out to be an opinion, meaning, some people are taking ever word seriously.

Totally.  She seems a lovely lady, but I can't bring myself to consider anything she says as being 'correct' based on some of those opinions she tweeted originally.  I really am a doubter, even when she says something I feel I should be soiling myself over in excitement.

Its sad really, but she couldn't/shouldn't ever come out and just spoil whatever is going on.  Would ruin the suprise.

Just hoping the suprise isn't a shanking.

[MaximizedAction]

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Right so at the very WORST, the Reapers are in Shepard's head, they are extracting information and they quite possibly are influencing his dreams since they later used this technique in the final scene.

Seems like the only debate at this point is if they can get information INTO his head. But clearly, they can get stuff out.

Someone has to be (or had to be) messing with Shepards head: either the Reapers or TIM. The former because there should be nothing special about Shepard that would prevent him from being a victim just like every advanced organic else currently in the galaxy. The former can be either happening in ME3 or is in retrospectively done during Project Lazarus: they did alter Shepard in some way; and that I would accept to make Shepard special to be able to resist Reaper indoc. But then, TIM must be in his head.

So someone is in Shep's mind. But who? And how?

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 23 juin 2012 - 09:55 .

[LazyTechGuy]

I'd definitely agree with that. Especially since that's kinda one of the things they do best.

Heh, it is easy to get carried away though. Jessica sure is taking us on a roller coaster this weekend.

[boeloe]

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Hmmmm

Scottish accent: Dammit girl, stop toying with us.

[Andromidius]

Dwailing wrote...

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Right so at the very WORST, the Reapers are in Shepard's head, they are extracting information and they quite possibly are influencing his dreams since they later used this technique in the final scene.

Seems like the only debate at this point is if they can get information INTO his head. But clearly, they can get stuff out.

And if they can get stuff OUT, then it's only a small step to being able to get stuff IN.  Hence, Indoctrination Theory.

Yep!

It would only take a small amount of influence to start worming its way into the psyche as well.  Once the idea is in there, and the mind keeps dwelling on it, the more it influences other thoughts.  It would never require constant influencing, its merely 'laying the foundations' for a swifter destruction of the mental barriers by seeding in guilty and doubt.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Plus, I coupled "Catalyst" with "Reapers" to see if she might infer more about their connection. I'm stretching this one, but she talked about those two as if they were one and the same when the Catalyst specifically said they are different entities.

Curious that she refers to them both as the Reapers.  

EDIT:  But I did forget that the Catalyst said "us" at one point. 

Indeed.

"I know you have thought about destroying us," from what i know Shepard never lobbed the Citadel into destroy list for the Reapers.

Probably been said before, but in general much of what the Catalyst says is almost directly taken from the Reapers, most noteably when he speaks of Synthesis.

"Combine into a new framework. A new...DNA" - Catalyst

"We are your genetic destiny" - Harbinger

"Synthesis is the final evolution of life" - Catalyst

"We are the Harbingers of your perfection" - Harbinger

"We are eternal. The pinnacle of evolution and existence" - Sovereign.

Just funny to put those quotes against each other. Really makes one think how one could ever consider Synthesis viable.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

MaximizedAction wrote...

LazyTechGuy wrote...

Right so at the very WORST, the Reapers are in Shepard's head, they are extracting information and they quite possibly are influencing his dreams since they later used this technique in the final scene.

Seems like the only debate at this point is if they can get information INTO his head. But clearly, they can get stuff out.

Someone has to be (or had to be) messing with Shepards head: either the Reapers or TIM. The former because there should be nothing special about Shepard that would prevent him from being a victim just like every advanced organic else currently in the galaxy. The former can be either happening in ME3 or is in retrospectively done during Project Lazarus: they did alter Shepard in some way; and that I would accept to make Shepard special to be able to resist Reaper indoc. But then, TIM must be in his head.

So someone is in Shep's mind. But who? And how?

I think who is easy to answer, at least if looked at logically.

What Reaper showed extraordinary interest in Shepard, but was mysteriusly absent for most of the third game? Harbinger.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 23 juin 2012 - 10:01 .