55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirian Thorn]

Bioware is just dangling that "carrot" to keep us interested. 

I hope EC is early Summer, not late Summer... 

TSA_383 had some a great comment yesterday.    From what I'm seeing in multiplayer and making some guesses, it seems to me that multiplayer is showing us more of the shape of the war.  I could totally see a huge weekend event where there is a new map on Earth.  Then the following week EC is released and it all ties together somehow. 

TSA_383 wrote...



Then
-Add multiplayer
-Make it so that people who want to "win" the game are required to play multi player.
-Sell weapons to people who can't be arsed playing properly.
-Keep multiplayer events going, slowly mapping out the real conflict.
-Eventually get to earth multiplayer event, announce new ending DLC at conclusion of multiplayer event to vaugely tie it into the plot.
-Sell even more weapons to people who can't be arsed playing properly.
-Release DLC
-Get massive press coverage for surprise ending.
-Critical praise, ship another few hundred thousand copies, sell even more weapons to people who are new or just plain suck.
-Build new east wing for golden money-palace.

Sorted.

[Unschuld]

Orange Tee wrote...

I really hope Lance wasn't misinterpreting what BW told him the end of the game was.

Because if what he's saying is true... that's huge for the IT.

Hmmm... Well, it's good to see him back. I've been a fan since his role as Bishop. Seeing him return makes me happy that Bioware is taking the EC seriously.

However, I don't think that his wording in that video is anything for IT. Maybe it is, but I doubt it. What I hear is him referring to the "ending" and "game over" and "when the player loses" is just the manner in which he's phrasing the end of the game... not implying that some of the choices are losing throws. He could be, and I may be wrong, but I'm not seeing it. He said that they [Bioware] told him there was a "problem with the end, and that it was too abrupt", "and it was just an oversight". That actually docks some points I had filed in the "maybe-Bioware-planned-this" bin. Which also might dock some points from IT's box.

Then again, maybe he's just being veeeerrry careful in his word choice. Dunno what to make of this. I just want to see some other VA's confirmed, I would flip in Martin Sheen came back, as well as Hale/Meer.

Edit: **** it. I'm going to watch the video another four times and think about other things.

Modifié par Unschuld, 18 mai 2012 - 07:37 .

[ArkkAngel007]

Bringing up a topic that may have come up in this new iteration of the original thread, but what are all your takes on what BioWare should do to include all the choices in the ending in an IT-centric EC? I saw the Rachni proposition, which I found to be brilliant, but I'd like to see what else is being thrown around. Personally, it would be another blow to BioWare if they exclude a large portion of their fan base that didn't get the Destroy/Shep lives ending.

[MaximizedAction]

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

 What do you guys make of this interview that talks with Hacket's VA about the EC:

http://www.g4tv.com/...ending-content/ 

The end of the game is losing?

BioWare is either extremely secretive about the EC or they really meant the current ending to be final. 

Well, the problem with the ending as it stands, with all in-game evidence strongly pointing towards hallucination, we simply don't have the closure that is needed for a proper trilogy ending; or at least, that's what was said about the game tying all arcs together.
For example: We don't know what happened to the sqad, no matter how you twist or turn it, that problem remains.

So the ME3 ending we got on the discs cannot be the ending to the trilogy. Although, there remains a conflict with that statement and Bioware's: There are no further ending DLCs planned besides the EC.
But hey, it's all a big mindgame, right?!

I sometimes worry that with hundreds of plot variables it would just be hard for them to make a satisfactory ending - technically or financially. That's why they decided on a "metaphysical" conclusion.

To make us truly feel what Shepard goes through, at some point, the people who got Shepard to breath, will need their 'conclusion'.

As someone pointed out, we as the players don't particularly care whether about Shepard as much as about all her or his companions. So, showing that Shepard survived is not really worth a lot if we don't know what happened to more than just our last squadmates and LI, no matter how it's protrayed at the end.

Shepard is alive. Fine. It doesn't mean that the EC will add anything post that. What I meant is that the number of plot variables that would go into a satisfactory ending (even based on IT) might just be too high for a 10-15 minute part of a game. So maybe, just maybe, BioWare is planning on ME4 after all. IT is a big deal so EA might want to cash on it instead of giving it away for free.

Besides, there are people who didn't get the breath scene. What about them?

And players do care what happens to Shepard.

I don't think they need an extra ME4 for wrapping up the trilogy, but they certainly need something. As it stands ME3 was first and foremost a war story, but ( even without assuming IT) there remains the unsolved mystery of Indoctrination. So it would be reasonable for an extensive DLC about that point. And (now assuming IT) it would also tackle Shepards indoctrination.

There are many variables, but the problem with the endings is not that it failed to tight up some subplots, but they didn't tigh them up at all.

People who got the Control/Synth have all right to feel confused about the ending. People who chose a best Destroy were rewarded with the hint of a cliffhanger.
The former group can be rewarded with playing as a Darth Shepard. The latter will continue with the war. If you played KOTOR: you could decide to slowly deceive the Republic at the final missions without them knowing.

Same can happen for those who chose Control/Synth. If they don't like it, well, then that's Indoctrination for you. But ultimately, no one has to miss out on anything.

And I don't think that there were too many variables. If anything, the game code shows an extensive use of intended pistol switching that itself shows off the ability to micromanage something seemingly unnecessary. So the really necessary variables, like character plots, shouldn't pose any problem at all.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 18 mai 2012 - 07:30 .

[RavenEyry]

Unschuld wrote...

Then again, maybe he's just being veeeerrry careful in his word choice. Dunno what to make of this. I just want to see some other VA's confirmed, I would flip in Martin Sheen came back, as well as Hale/Meer.

Hale/Meer were confirmed ages ago. Sbarge also said he was returning, so presumably all the squadmembers or at least LIs will too.

[paxxton]

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

paxxton wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

 What do you guys make of this interview that talks with Hacket's VA about the EC:

http://www.g4tv.com/...ending-content/ 

The end of the game is losing?

BioWare is either extremely secretive about the EC or they really meant the current ending to be final. 

Well, the problem with the ending as it stands, with all in-game evidence strongly pointing towards hallucination, we simply don't have the closure that is needed for a proper trilogy ending; or at least, that's what was said about the game tying all arcs together.
For example: We don't know what happened to the sqad, no matter how you twist or turn it, that problem remains.

So the ME3 ending we got on the discs cannot be the ending to the trilogy. Although, there remains a conflict with that statement and Bioware's: There are no further ending DLCs planned besides the EC.
But hey, it's all a big mindgame, right?!

I sometimes worry that with hundreds of plot variables it would just be hard for them to make a satisfactory ending - technically or financially. That's why they decided on a "metaphysical" conclusion.

To make us truly feel what Shepard goes through, at some point, the people who got Shepard to breath, will need their 'conclusion'.

As someone pointed out, we as the players don't particularly care whether about Shepard as much as about all her or his companions. So, showing that Shepard survived is not really worth a lot if we don't know what happened to more than just our last squadmates and LI, no matter how it's protrayed at the end.

Shepard is alive. Fine. It doesn't mean that the EC will add anything post that. What I meant is that the number of plot variables that would go into a satisfactory ending (even based on IT) might just be too high for a 10-15 minute part of a game. So maybe, just maybe, BioWare is planning on ME4 after all. IT is a big deal so EA might want to cash on it instead of giving it away for free.

Besides, there are people who didn't get the breath scene. What about them?

And players do care what happens to Shepard.

I don't think they need an extra ME4 for wrapping up the trilogy, but they certainly need something. As it stands ME3 was first and foremost a war story, but ( even without assuming IT) there remains the unsolved mystery of Indoctrination. So it would be reasonable for an extensive DLC about that point. And (now assuming IT) it would also tackle Shepards indoctrination.

There are many variables, but the problem with the endings is not that it failed to tight up some subplots, but they didn't tigh them up at all.

People who got the Control/Synth have all right to feel confused about the ending. People who chose a best Destroy were rewarded with the hint of a cliffhanger.
The former group can be rewarded with playing as a Darth Shepard. The latter will continue with the war. If you played KOTOR: you could decide to slowly deceive the Republic at the final missions without them knowing.

Same can happen for those who chose Control/Synth. If they don't like it, well, then that's Indoctrination for you. But ultimately, no one has to miss out on anything.

And I don't think that there were too many variables. If anything, the game code shows an extensive use of intended pistol switching that itself shows off the ability to micromanage something seemingly unnecessary. So the really necessary variables, like character plots, shouldn't pose any problem at all.

I think they said it during PAX that they developed internal QA tools for managing plot variables so maybe that's not as big a problem as it may seem. Creating actual content for so many possible outcomes - that's a different story.

Btw, there was a discussion earlier why Control might be a better choice than Destroy.

[Unschuld]

MaximizedAction wrote...

People who got the Control/Synth have all right to feel confused about the ending. People who chose a best Destroy were rewarded with the hint of a cliffhanger.
The former group can be rewarded with playing as a Darth Shepard. The latter will continue with the war. If you played KOTOR: you could decide to slowly deceive the Republic at the final missions without them knowing.

Same can happen for those who chose Control/Synth. If they don't like it, well, then that's Indoctrination for you. But ultimately, no one has to miss out on anything.

And I don't think that there were too many variables. If anything, the game code shows an extensive use of intended pistol switching that itself shows off the ability to micromanage something seemingly unnecessary. So the really necessary variables, like character plots, shouldn't pose any problem at all.

You know what, I'll semi-retract some of my previous statements. I've always said that if indoc were true, they should still give Synth/Ctrl players a chance at redemption. Now I'm leaning closer to just maybe. Why not let players fall into a trap that they were warned against previously in the story, with no way out? Certainly fits the bill of "reapers win" ending like bioware promised, which so far doesn't happen in any of the endings (at face value). The RGB choices will just be another "Morinth romance scene".

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Bringing up a topic that may have come up in this new iteration of the original thread, but what are all your takes on what BioWare should do to include all the choices in the ending in an IT-centric EC? I saw the Rachni proposition, which I found to be brilliant, but I'd like to see what else is being thrown around. Personally, it would be another blow to BioWare if they exclude a large portion of their fan base that didn't get the Destroy/Shep lives ending.

I would suggest looking up Arian Dynas EC write up. Great read and great example of how IT can work even with just cutscenes.

As for the Rachni theory, well I had another theory related to how the Crucible/Citadel works.

We know the Citadel is a massive Mass Relay and rather than focus upon that it is Reaper tech as to how the Crucible works, what if the Crucible was more made to manipulate the Mass Relay part of the citadel? Essentailly what if the addition of the Crucible altered the Mass Relay functions of the Citadel, activated it and turned it into a giant Mass Accelerator cannon.

Using ship chunks and potentially Reapers who got to close a  Mass Accelerator cannon of that size should be able to destroy even the largest Reapers with a single shot. Such power would quickly turn the tide above Earth, but also leaves open the potential for some Reapers to escape meaning the war is not won, but the Citadel Relay Cannon could have brought the Reaper numbers down into numbers which are manageable by conventional warfare. 

This could also tie into Klendragon, a palnet with a massive rift which was caused by teh gracing shot by a Mass accelerator cannon of incredible power. Same shot is supposedly what disabled the Derelict Reaper from ME2. Essentially this could have been a cycle in which a rrace managed to dock the Crucible with the Citadel, but did not have the fleet to protect it longer than for a single shot to be fired.

However it is mentioned that Cerberus supposedly found the gun who fired the shot and taht it is defunct, so probably not a tie in there.

Still the Citadel as a Mass Accelerator opens up some interesting choices and posibilities. Like imagine that harbinger realizing the weapon that has been turned against them  leads a group of Reapers away, but instead of just flying directly away from earth they fly between the Citadel and Earth meaning you cant shot Harbinger without causing massive devastation to earth behind it. A choice, is it worth killing Harbinger and several Reapers at the cost of a massive part of Earth?

Alternately Harbinger and the Reapers could change direction, assulting the Crucible with the Earth behind them to disaude Shepard from firing. Potential results could then be according to your EMS with Shepard not firing at a certain EMS means Harbinger and Co destroys the Crucible killing Shepard, but possibly still beeing weakened so much that the fleet can finish the war.

Alternately Shepard at igh EMS who choose not to fire gets saved as the lfeet has the power to fight of Harbinger and Co before he can destroy the Crucible.

Complete speculation, but I think the Citadel Relay Cannon is a plausible scenario since we know that the Protheans learned the secrets of the Mass Relays. Older species could have done the same and thus the possibility of making the Citadel a mass accelerator cannon was a posiblity.

Personally i also think such a thing would be a hell of a alot cooler than simple Reaper shutdown or shield shutdown signal. Personal opinion though.

[Tirian Thorn]

Unschuld wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

People who got the Control/Synth have all right to feel confused about the ending. People who chose a best Destroy were rewarded with the hint of a cliffhanger.
The former group can be rewarded with playing as a Darth Shepard. The latter will continue with the war. If you played KOTOR: you could decide to slowly deceive the Republic at the final missions without them knowing.

Same can happen for those who chose Control/Synth. If they don't like it, well, then that's Indoctrination for you. But ultimately, no one has to miss out on anything.

And I don't think that there were too many variables. If anything, the game code shows an extensive use of intended pistol switching that itself shows off the ability to micromanage something seemingly unnecessary. So the really necessary variables, like character plots, shouldn't pose any problem at all.

You know what, I'll semi-retract some of my previous statements. I've always said that if indoc were true, they should still give Synth/Ctrl players a chance at redemption. Now I'm leaning closer to just maybe. Why not let players fall into a trap that they were warned against previously in the story, with no way out? Certainly fits the bill of "reapers win" ending like bioware promised, which so far doesn't happen in any of the endings (at face value). The RGB choices will just be another "Morinth romance scene".

I’d like to see something like the following:

Pick Control + Low EMS =  Reapers Win


Pick Control + High EMS = Shepard still dies, but Reapers lose


Pick Destroy + Low EMS = Shepard dies HEROICALLY, but Reapers lose


Pick Destory + High EMS = Shepard lives, Reapers lose “Perfect Ending” 


Pick Synthesis = Shepard becomes like Saren believing that it’s possible to exist with the Reapers. Reapers win. 

[paxxton]

The Citadel is a mass accelerator anyway, as are all the mass relays. No Crucible needed. I'd rather says that the Crucible might act as a mass pump into the Citadel Relay.
 
Making the Citadel a cannon would require desynchronizing it from other relays so that it can send mass to a set point in space.

Modifié par paxxton, 18 mai 2012 - 08:14 .

[Unschuld]

RavenEyry wrote...

Hale/Meer were confirmed ages ago. Sbarge also said he was returning, so presumably all the squadmembers or at least LIs will too.

Really? Awesomeness! Yeah, I knew about Sbarge, EDI's VA and some of the other LI's. Never knew about Meer/Hale.

If Indoc is false, all the LI VA's make sense since they'd be talking about HTF to get off Gilligan's Planet. Shepard's VA's though... they would only make sense to me if all there were doing were some token lines before the actual RGB choice, or as narration post-ctrl/synth as a reaper etc (which sounds like a monumentally stupid idea. My pal would go THROUGH my face). For the destroy/lives ending, I can't see much exposition beyond "Oh ****, I lived!... Oh crap, where's my crew?! :crying:"

[MegumiAzusa]

For me it sounded like he is saying because the game ended so aprupt gamers felt like they lost.

[Unschuld]

paxxton wrote...

The Citadel is a mass accelerator anyway, as are all the mass relays. No Crucible needed. I'd rather says that the Crucible might act as a pump of mass into the Citadel Relay.

Maybe the EC will have the Crucible turn Shepard into a human bullet like superman, the Citadel firing him out like a cannon where he proceeds to punch through every single reaper in Sol before crashing like a meteor into London's rubble. There you have it, Bioware.

Best. Ending. Ever.

Modifié par Unschuld, 18 mai 2012 - 07:57 .

[Tirian Thorn]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...


Complete speculation, but I think the Citadel Relay Cannon is a plausible scenario since we know that the Protheans learned the secrets of the Mass Relays. Older species could have done the same and thus the possibility of making the Citadel a mass accelerator cannon was a posiblity.

Personally i also think such a thing would be a hell of a alot cooler than simple Reaper shutdown or shield shutdown signal. Personal opinion though.

I agree that an actual weapon of some sorts would be way cooler than a shutdown or shield disabling device. 

One fanfic I read said that by taking control of the citadel they could reroute all the Mass Relays to the galactic core them tell the reaper to make a mass relay jump – sending them all into black holes. 

But, a massive mass accelerator cannon would be cool too. If they could wipe out a significant number of Reapers , then the combined fleets could stand a chance against the rest. 

And, if they have control of the citadel, they could just move it to each war zone and take them out a planet at a time. 

[Unschuld]

Tirian Thorn wrote...
One fanfic I read said that by taking control of the citadel they could reroute all the Mass Relays to the galactic core them tell the reaper to make a mass relay jump – sending them all into black holes. 

Mind. Blown.

Modifié par Unschuld, 18 mai 2012 - 08:00 .

[TSA_383]

Guys, I'd like to try an experiment if everyone's up for it.
I, or someone else, will create a save right before starting the cerberus base mission with a new character (ie, one that's not done the ending before) and upload it.

Then we'll get people to play through the ending, choosing destroy, control and synthesis.
Then we upload the saves/Newsave+/Legendsave on here and we'll see what's changed. Acceptable?

[MaximizedAction]

Unschuld wrote...

paxxton wrote...

The Citadel is a mass accelerator anyway, as are all the mass relays. No Crucible needed. I'd rather says that the Crucible might act as a pump of mass into the Citadel Relay.

Maybe the EC will have the Crucible turn Shepard into a human bullet like superman, the Citadel firing him out like a cannon where he proceeds to punch through every single reaper in Sol before crashing like a meteor into London's rubble. There you have it, Bioware.

Best. Ending. Ever.

Imma be like ":):) dafuq did I just watch?"

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

paxxton wrote...

The Citadel is a mass accelerator anyway, as are all the mass relays. No Crucible needed. I'd rather says that the Crucible might act as a mass pump into the Citadel Relay.
Making the Ciadel a cannon would require desynchronizing it from other relays so that it sends the mass into a set point in space.

Exactly, that might be what the Crucible is for. Desynchonizing it and making this possible. Essentailly the Crucible could be the weapon in the sense that it is what turns the Citadel into possible weapon.

[spotlessvoid]

1. Losing doesn't really have anything to do with ending.
I think Lance knows the difference, video games or otherwise. Losing is losing

2. Don't really see how there is enough narrative left, given the nature of the enemy, to make an ME4. Shepard can't go heads up against Reapers, so unless ME4 is a space fighter game (requiring a whole knew engine) I don't see where they can take the story. You can't have a whole game running around Earth taking Reapers down one at a time. It wouldn't even remotely fit with the narrative style of player agency from 1-3.

3. The Rannoch Reaper: Did Bioware really just throw that in there to have a mini boss fight, or did it serve a narrative purpose?

[paxxton]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

paxxton wrote...

The Citadel is a mass accelerator anyway, as are all the mass relays. No Crucible needed. I'd rather says that the Crucible might act as a pump of mass into the Citadel Relay.

Maybe the EC will have the Crucible turn Shepard into a human bullet like superman, the Citadel firing him out like a cannon where he proceeds to punch through every single reaper in Sol before crashing like a meteor into London's rubble. There you have it, Bioware.

Best. Ending. Ever.

Imma be like ":):) dafuq did I just watch?"

I updated my original post with new crucial info on this theory.  

Modifié par paxxton, 18 mai 2012 - 08:03 .

[DJBare]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Complete speculation, but I think the Citadel Relay Cannon is a plausible scenario since we know that the Protheans learned the secrets of the Mass Relays. Older species could have done the same and thus the possibility of making the Citadel a mass accelerator cannon was a posiblity.

Complete speculation, but I think the citadel is an amplifier for the crucible which is a mass indoctrination device, and "if" Shepard wakes up, s/he will have to destroy the crucible before the entire remaining population of earth and the fleets in orbit are indoctrinated, it's why the reapers moved the citadel to sol, that would lead the fleet and the crucible right to their doorstep.

[TSA_383]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

The Citadel is a mass accelerator anyway, as are all the mass relays. No Crucible needed. I'd rather says that the Crucible might act as a mass pump into the Citadel Relay.
Making the Ciadel a cannon would require desynchronizing it from other relays so that it sends the mass into a set point in space.

Exactly, that might be what the Crucible is for. Desynchonizing it and making this possible. Essentailly the Crucible could be the weapon in the sense that it is what turns the Citadel into possible weapon.

Would also make sense in terms of the weapon that killed the derelict reaper from ME2...

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Tirian Thorn wrote...

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...


Complete speculation, but I think the Citadel Relay Cannon is a plausible scenario since we know that the Protheans learned the secrets of the Mass Relays. Older species could have done the same and thus the possibility of making the Citadel a mass accelerator cannon was a posiblity.

Personally i also think such a thing would be a hell of a alot cooler than simple Reaper shutdown or shield shutdown signal. Personal opinion though.

I agree that an actual weapon of some sorts would be way cooler than a shutdown or shield disabling device. 

One fanfic I read said that by taking control of the citadel they could reroute all the Mass Relays to the galactic core them tell the reaper to make a mass relay jump – sending them all into black holes. 

But, a massive mass accelerator cannon would be cool too. If they could wipe out a significant number of Reapers , then the combined fleets could stand a chance against the rest. 

And, if they have control of the citadel, they could just move it to each war zone and take them out a planet at a time. 

Interesting Idea, but a little to close to a Reaper off button if you ask me.

But another part of my idea as i mentioned is taht it does not remeove all Reapers. Some Reapers will probably survive and I think that is important....it would be...wrong...to just remove the Reapers from the ME universe completely if you ask me.

[MaximizedAction]

TSA_383 wrote...

Guys, I'd like to try an experiment if everyone's up for it.
I, or someone else, will create a save right before starting the cerberus base mission with a new character (ie, one that's not done the ending before) and upload it.

Then we'll get people to play through the ending, choosing destroy, control and synthesis.
Then we upload the saves/Newsave+/Legendsave on here and we'll see what's changed. Acceptable?

I'm in!

[Unschuld]

TSA_383 wrote...
Would also make sense in terms of the weapon that killed the derelict reaper from ME2...

Ever since I read Klendagon's description in ME1, I was hoping something would come out of it. ME2's exposition made me happy, but I'd be even more happy if it had another tie-in with ME3.