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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#26626
Golferguy758

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thisisme8 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

Domanese wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

The inaudible sound is actually a really interesting point and an intelligent addition by BioWare. Theoretical? Yes. Proof of indoctrination? No. Then again, gravity is only a theory, so take what I just said how you will.

Rifneno: Even as you jest, just by using the word "us," you imply that you do.


Okay and now back to you and I apperciate the time given to answer me back. Basically gravity and for my own example music is invisible but you can still experience it/ hear it.  Infrasonic noise you can of course not hear but you can still of course detect it with the right equipment. You have however acknowledged it of course and I applaude that.

To me it does stand out as incredibly needless work if Indoctrination was not what they were going for and probably one of the cruelest red herrings possible if that was what put into the game. Which to me is outside the realm of possibility.

I will however yield to something here and now, it's true that the IT is just a theory at the moment since until theres flat out confirmation or denial by the Word of God its up in the air but the amount of evidence to support it is more vast then what I have seen from the literalist point of view and makes more sense to me.

As for the whole "only clairfying and adding on to the current endings", the IT does not change the ending but works alongside it giving clairification and adding onto the current endings at its core. We also have seen some people actually write out scenarios in how the IT would work without extra gameplay.

I realize that  I will not change your mind and such and thats not my intention since its not possible. What i can do is provide you with why we think the way we do.


My own problem with IT is really the reasoning behind it.  Why would the Catalyst need to lie to Shepard?  Would an AI, although capable, lie while conceding at the same time?  The cycle is over, so there is no need to tell Shepard that he is not indoctrinated, but he still goes so far as to say he is not.  Unless IT's true meaning is the indoctrination of the player, and not Shepard.  But still, the cycle is over.



I'm sorry but where in the f**k are you pulling this crap from?


The Catalyst tells Shep that the Illusive man couldn't control the reapers since he was already under their control.  The Catalyst then tells Shep that he/she can control the reapers.  Maybe I'm making a huge jump here, but that tells me that Shep is not under their control - thus not indoctrinated.


You have been very respectful, so I'll politely respond here. You are talking to the Reaper Leader/creator/whatever. The leader of your enemy will want to deceive you. Of course it would say oh that indoctrinated guy can't control them! But yea, you can! You are tooootally not falling for my master plan of taking you over and bending you to my will. Trust me. I'm serious. Would I lie?

Posted Image

#26627
BatmanTurian

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MegaSovereign wrote...

Can't control the reapers eh?

How do you explain this?

Posted Image


Ladies and gentlemen, IT is now on life support.


It's SubAstris in his greatest fantasy.

#26628
masster blaster

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MegaSovereign wrote...

Can't control the reapers eh?

How do you explain this?

Posted Image


Ladies and gentlemen, IT is now on life support.


Ome that's Biotic god and I let him die in one play through so Control out of the question but DESTROY .:D

#26629
BatmanTurian

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MegaSovereign wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Posted Image


The Crucible is not wider or longer than the Citadel.


The end, the er... tip , is what closes, not where the crucible docks.

#26630
Golferguy758

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BatmanTurian wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Posted Image


The Crucible is not wider or longer than the Citadel.


The end, the er... tip , is what closes, not where the crucible docks.


Just put the tip in to see how it feels?

#26631
Arashi08

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Reposting

Arashi08 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

elegolas1 wrote...

so where does the IT stand upon the announcement of the EC?

i'm scared by all this literalism talk on the forums


Bioware confirmed through twitter that the IT can still be left to interpretation. It's not going to be an outright confirmation or denial.

Kind of stupid, considering the EC is suppose to be provide clarity and closure. But hey I'm not a business man. What the **** do I know.

it seems like they looked at the different camps ppl are in and, in a similar fashion with Tali's face, they decided to go with the amgibuous route that doesn't favor one group over another so that they don't ****** off one side or the other.  Problem is, this ambiguity and speculation is likely to ****** everyone off now...  People want their questions answered not an open ended conclusion where we can all imagine we were right. 

IMO a good story should never end like that, the conflicts in a story should be resolved not open to interpretation, unless the creator wants the reader to learn something.



#26632
Domanese

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MegaSovereign wrote...

Can't control the reapers eh?

How do you explain this?

Posted Image


Ladies and gentlemen, IT is now on life support.


Reaper: OMG ITS THE BIOTIC GOD! WE ARE DOOMED!!!

That's absolutely Hilarious.

#26633
MegaSovereign

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Golferguy758 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Posted Image


The Crucible is not wider or longer than the Citadel.


The end, the er... tip , is what closes, not where the crucible docks.


Just put the tip in to see how it feels?


Perhaps the Crucible is just one big orgy machine.

#26634
Bill Casey

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BatmanTurian wrote...

The end, the er... tip , is what closes, not where the crucible docks.


How would that work?
How would the tip close and not the base?

Modifié par Bill Casey, 24 juin 2012 - 02:35 .


#26635
thisisme8

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Maybe at this point I'm just being stubborn - but it doesn't make sense that a race of synthetic beings whose sole purpose for millions of years is to continue the cycle would finally concede to ending the cycle by indoctrinating Shep. Regardless of which conclusion you pick, the cycle is over, making indoctrination moot.

Also, the Catalyst calls himself the Catalyst because that is what the creators of the Crucible called it.

#26636
MegaSovereign

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Bill Casey wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

The end, the er... tip , is what closes, not where the crucible docks.


How would that work?


Let's ask Hackett.

"I DUNNO LOL"

#26637
senshi420

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Bill Casey wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

The end, the er... tip , is what closes, not where the crucible docks.


How would that work?


i thought the crucible docked in the back end?:innocent:

#26638
EpyonX3

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MegaSovereign wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

It does close, which is... interesting.


One must then ask the following:

How does it close with the crucible docked?


*snip*


The Crucible isn't THAT big.


It's not about it being large. The whole point of getting to the crucible was to open the arms so the crucible can dock. How do the arms close with the crucible in the way? If it's not an issie with then we could have docked it with the arms open.

#26639
masster blaster

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Domanese wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Can't control the reapers eh?

How do you explain this?

Posted Image


Ladies and gentlemen, IT is now on life support.


Reaper: OMG ITS THE BIOTIC GOD! WE ARE DOOMED!!!

That's absolutely Hilarious.


Ya but God child would be : NOOOOOO B***************** then Biotic god dies because he picked control rather than his own way of Controling the Reapers.

#26640
Iconoclaste

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masster blaster wrote...

Also why would Bioware say Shepard can be reunited with his, or her crew if they are just stuck on a planet or are they IT maybe.

If I remember well, that wasn't "official statement" from Bioware, but rather from Ms Merizan, right?
Still a few more days and we"ll all know about that.

#26641
BatmanTurian

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Bill Casey wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

The end, the er... tip , is what closes, not where the crucible docks.


How would that work?
How would the tip close and not the base?


The Citadel opens like a flowerbud and closes like one too. The presidium would be the circular part of a flower surrounded by the petals.

#26642
Bill Casey

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thisisme8 wrote...

Maybe at this point I'm just being stubborn - but it doesn't make sense that a race of synthetic beings whose sole purpose for millions of years is to continue the cycle would finally concede to ending the cycle by indoctrinating Shep. Regardless of which conclusion you pick, the cycle is over, making indoctrination moot.

Also, the Catalyst calls himself the Catalyst because that is what the creators of the Crucible called it.


They don't concede to ending the cycle...
And you are told by Vendetta that the Citadel is the Catalyst, which the child contradicts...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 24 juin 2012 - 02:36 .


#26643
thisisme8

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Bill Casey wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

Maybe at this point I'm just being stubborn - but it doesn't make sense that a race of synthetic beings whose sole purpose for millions of years is to continue the cycle would finally concede to ending the cycle by indoctrinating Shep. Regardless of which conclusion you pick, the cycle is over, making indoctrination moot.

Also, the Catalyst calls himself the Catalyst because that is what the creators of the Crucible called it.


They don't concede to ending the cycle...
And you are told by Vendetta that the Citadel is the Catalyst, which the child contradicts...


The Catalyst concedes to ending the cycle by presenting Shep with 3 different ways to do it.

#26644
FellishBeast

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thisisme8 wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

Domanese wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

The inaudible sound is actually a really interesting point and an intelligent addition by BioWare. Theoretical? Yes. Proof of indoctrination? No. Then again, gravity is only a theory, so take what I just said how you will.

Rifneno: Even as you jest, just by using the word "us," you imply that you do.


Okay and now back to you and I apperciate the time given to answer me back. Basically gravity and for my own example music is invisible but you can still experience it/ hear it.  Infrasonic noise you can of course not hear but you can still of course detect it with the right equipment. You have however acknowledged it of course and I applaude that.

To me it does stand out as incredibly needless work if Indoctrination was not what they were going for and probably one of the cruelest red herrings possible if that was what put into the game. Which to me is outside the realm of possibility.

I will however yield to something here and now, it's true that the IT is just a theory at the moment since until theres flat out confirmation or denial by the Word of God its up in the air but the amount of evidence to support it is more vast then what I have seen from the literalist point of view and makes more sense to me.

As for the whole "only clairfying and adding on to the current endings", the IT does not change the ending but works alongside it giving clairification and adding onto the current endings at its core. We also have seen some people actually write out scenarios in how the IT would work without extra gameplay.

I realize that  I will not change your mind and such and thats not my intention since its not possible. What i can do is provide you with why we think the way we do.


My own problem with IT is really the reasoning behind it.  Why would the Catalyst need to lie to Shepard?  Would an AI, although capable, lie while conceding at the same time?  The cycle is over, so there is no need to tell Shepard that he is not indoctrinated, but he still goes so far as to say he is not.  Unless IT's true meaning is the indoctrination of the player, and not Shepard.  But still, the cycle is over.



I'm sorry but where in the f**k are you pulling this crap from?


The Catalyst tells Shep that the Illusive man couldn't control the reapers since he was already under their control.  The Catalyst then tells Shep that he/she can control the reapers.  Maybe I'm making a huge jump here, but that tells me that Shep is not under their control - thus not indoctrinated.


But that's what they want Shepard to think...TIM didn't "know" he was indoctrinated.

#26645
MegaSovereign

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masster blaster wrote...

Domanese wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Can't control the reapers eh?

How do you explain this?

Posted Image


Ladies and gentlemen, IT is now on life support.


Reaper: OMG ITS THE BIOTIC GOD! WE ARE DOOMED!!!

That's absolutely Hilarious.


Ya but God child would be : NOOOOOO B***************** then Biotic god dies because he picked control rather than his own way of Controling the Reapers.


That's not what happens in the gif.

#26646
llbountyhunter

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senshi420 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

The end, the er... tip , is what closes, not where the crucible docks.


How would that work?


i thought the crucible docked in the back end?:innocent:


That IS the back end...

#26647
BatmanTurian

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EpyonX3 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

It does close, which is... interesting.


One must then ask the following:

How does it close with the crucible docked?


*snip*


The Crucible isn't THAT big.


It's not about it being large. The whole point of getting to the crucible was to open the arms so the crucible can dock. How do the arms close with the crucible in the way? If it's not an issie with then we could have docked it with the arms open.


The crucible is like the stem of the flower that is the citadel. Hence the "stem" would not be in the way when the "flower" closes.

#26648
Vaya

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thisisme8 wrote...

Maybe at this point I'm just being stubborn - but it doesn't make sense that a race of synthetic beings whose sole purpose for millions of years is to continue the cycle would finally concede to ending the cycle by indoctrinating Shep. Regardless of which conclusion you pick, the cycle is over, making indoctrination moot.

Also, the Catalyst calls himself the Catalyst because that is what the creators of the Crucible called it.


Basically its because we assume hes full of crap, its just an attempt to indoctinate Shepard at the last minute.

Previous reapers: "WE ARE BEYOND YOUR COMPREHENSION"

Starchild: but I can explain it fully in five minutes

#26649
Bill Casey

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BatmanTurian wrote...

The Citadel opens like a flowerbud and closes like one too. The presidium would be the circular part of a flower surrounded by the petals.

Posted Image

#26650
Guest_The Mad Hanar_*

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So, what happens when Shepard wakes up? Can you point me to the pages where this is discussed? I would look, but there's 1066 pages to look through.