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[BatmanTurian]

thisisme8 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

Maybe at this point I'm just being stubborn - but it doesn't make sense that a race of synthetic beings whose sole purpose for millions of years is to continue the cycle would finally concede to ending the cycle by indoctrinating Shep. Regardless of which conclusion you pick, the cycle is over, making indoctrination moot.

Also, the Catalyst calls himself the Catalyst because that is what the creators of the Crucible called it.

They don't concede to ending the cycle...
And you are told by Vendetta that the Citadel is the Catalyst, which the child contradicts...

The Catalyst concedes to ending the cycle by presenting Shep with 3 different ways to do it.

Incorrect. He presents himself as conceding. In reality, he is offering 2 out of 3 choices that allow him to win. He paints the one that ruins his plans as the worst.

[Humakt83]

thisisme8 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

Maybe at this point I'm just being stubborn - but it doesn't make sense that a race of synthetic beings whose sole purpose for millions of years is to continue the cycle would finally concede to ending the cycle by indoctrinating Shep. Regardless of which conclusion you pick, the cycle is over, making indoctrination moot.

Also, the Catalyst calls himself the Catalyst because that is what the creators of the Crucible called it.

They don't concede to ending the cycle...
And you are told by Vendetta that the Citadel is the Catalyst, which the child contradicts...

The Catalyst concedes to ending the cycle by presenting Shep with 3 different ways to do it.

 

Watch it. If you have already watched it, watch again.

[Bill Casey]

BatmanTurian wrote...

The crucible is like the stem of the flower that is the citadel. Hence the "stem" would not be in the way when the "flower" closes.

The Crucible attaches from the back...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 24 juin 2012 - 02:41 .

[BatmanTurian]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

So, what happens when Shepard wakes up? Can you point me to the pages where this is discussed? I would look, but there's 1066 pages to look through.

Supposedly it would be in the EC. We don't know. that's for Bioware to tell us.

[thisisme8]

FellishBeast wrote...

But that's what they want Shepard to think...TIM didn't "know" he was indoctrinated.

Are you talking BioWare or the Catalyst.  Because it doesn't change the result:  The cycle ends, making indoctrination useless.

[Iconoclaste]

EpyonX3 wrote...

It's not about it being large. The whole point of getting to the crucible was to open the arms so the crucible can dock. How do the arms close with the crucible in the way? If it's not an issie with then we could have docked it with the arms open.

If the Citadel's "arms" are 25 km long, the parts "below" the Presidium must be protuding at least  a good 2 or more km, maybe allowing for the whole crucible's lenght. It's big, but I don't think it's as big as Sovereign. You can assess Sovereign's size proportionately to the "Presidium Tower" when he docks with it at the end of ME1, and you also have a good shot of the back end of the Citadel, with arms almost closed. There is enough room for the Crucible there, I think.

[Arashi08]

Bill Casey wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

Maybe at this point I'm just being stubborn - but it doesn't make sense that a race of synthetic beings whose sole purpose for millions of years is to continue the cycle would finally concede to ending the cycle by indoctrinating Shep. Regardless of which conclusion you pick, the cycle is over, making indoctrination moot.

Also, the Catalyst calls himself the Catalyst because that is what the creators of the Crucible called it.

They don't concede to ending the cycle...
And you are told by Vendetta that the Citadel is the Catalyst, which the child contradicts...

exactly, picking control or synthesis won't end the cycle.  imo the Reapers NEED the cycle to justify their existence, the Catalyst is trying to influence Shepard's choices by offering to end the cycles, just as Sovereign did with Saren and what TIM was trying to do as he was attempting to control the Reapers. 

According to the theory, Harbinger is trying to tempt Shepard with a way to end the cycles to finally indoctrinate him/her.  iI has been done before in ME1 when it was obvious that Sovereign lied to Saren, or at the very least allowed him to believe a lie.  If the Reapers can use deception to achieve their goals, and have done so before, why not continue this tactic?

[Domanese]

thisisme8 wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

But that's what they want Shepard to think...TIM didn't "know" he was indoctrinated.

Are you talking BioWare or the Catalyst.  Because it doesn't change the result:  The cycle ends, making indoctrination useless.

I have responded to your question, This. I'll paitiently await your answer to what I have posted but if you need me to locate it for you I shall. Your patience is apperciated and understood.

[BatmanTurian]

Bill Casey wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

The crucible is like the stem of the flower that is the citadel. Hence the "stem" would not be in the way when the "flower" closes.

The Crucible is in the back...

exactly

-----------o-O===================
Crucible     Presidium          Wards
Stem                        Flower


The wards are what closes in control after the energy of the crucible is sent out.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 24 juin 2012 - 02:45 .

[Bill Casey]

The Mad Hanar wrote...

So, what happens when Shepard wakes up? Can you point me to the pages where this is discussed? I would look, but there's 1066 pages to look through.

This isn't discussed...
It may never be answered...

[Bill Casey]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

The crucible is like the stem of the flower that is the citadel. Hence the "stem" would not be in the way when the "flower" closes.

The Crucible is in the back...

exactly

-----------o-O===================
Crucible     Presidium          Wards
Stem                        Flower

The back of the Citadel closes along with the front...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 24 juin 2012 - 02:44 .

[thisisme8]

BatmanTurian wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

Maybe at this point I'm just being stubborn - but it doesn't make sense that a race of synthetic beings whose sole purpose for millions of years is to continue the cycle would finally concede to ending the cycle by indoctrinating Shep. Regardless of which conclusion you pick, the cycle is over, making indoctrination moot.

Also, the Catalyst calls himself the Catalyst because that is what the creators of the Crucible called it.

They don't concede to ending the cycle...
And you are told by Vendetta that the Citadel is the Catalyst, which the child contradicts...

The Catalyst concedes to ending the cycle by presenting Shep with 3 different ways to do it.

Incorrect. He presents himself as conceding. In reality, he is offering 2 out of 3 choices that allow him to win. He paints the one that ruins his plans as the worst.

How does the Catalyst win?

Control:  Reapers go off into deep space never to be seen again.  Loss.
Synthesis:  Organics and Synthetics merge, ending their constant war with each other, ending the cycle and no longer requiring reapers to exist.  Loss.
Destruction:  All Synthetics are destroyed, including the reapers, for now.  Loss.

[MegaSovereign]

It's funny how the Crucible engineers didn't know that the Citadel was the Catalyst, despite coincidentally building/designing the Crucible to attach itself to the citadel.

[BatmanTurian]

Bill Casey wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

The crucible is like the stem of the flower that is the citadel. Hence the "stem" would not be in the way when the "flower" closes.

The Crucible is in the back...

exactly

-----------o-O===================
Crucible     Presidium          Wards
Stem                        Flower

The back of the Citadel closes along with the front...

It can't. The presidium is what the wards hinge on.

[masster blaster]

Also why would the Brat child even let Shepard control the Reapers and end evolution. That's not a good choice for the God child and the god child should have not even help Shepard since he, or she is the enemy.

And something else in mind even without having high ems and assents you can still kill the Reapers and control them but no Shepard Reaper and no breathing scene. So I do think IT is real because why on earth would Bioware have an end were all you need is a little help and presto the Reapers are dead and we control them with low EMS and assents.

[Bill Casey]

thisisme8 wrote...

How does the Catalyst win?

Control:  Reapers go off into deep space never to be seen again.  Loss.
Synthesis:  Organics and Synthetics merge, ending their constant war with each other, ending the cycle and no longer requiring reapers to exist.  Loss.
Destruction:  All Synthetics are destroyed, including the reapers, for now.  Loss.

The choices aren't real...

[FellishBeast]

thisisme8 wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

But that's what they want Shepard to think...TIM didn't "know" he was indoctrinated.

Are you talking BioWare or the Catalyst.  Because it doesn't change the result:  The cycle ends, making indoctrination useless.

I have no idea what you're talking about. The Reapers still have to finish harvesting...and if they can get Shepard on their side, the resistance will be much easier to overcome.

[EpyonX3]

BatmanTurian wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

It does close, which is... interesting.

One must then ask the following:

How does it close with the crucible docked?


*snip*

The Crucible isn't THAT big.

It's not about it being large. The whole point of getting to the crucible was to open the arms so the crucible can dock. How do the arms close with the crucible in the way? If it's not an issie with then we could have docked it with the arms open.

The crucible is like the stem of the flower that is the citadel. Hence the "stem" would not be in the way when the "flower" closes.

The crucible has that big round ball that goes as far as the base of the citadel tower. The arms would close right on top of it. The arms also close to a near seal where the crucible docks. Even if it closes over the ball it still wouldn't close right with the "stem."


Hence why they only show you the other end and not the whole citadel.

[llbountyhunter]

www.computerandvideogames.com/309188/mass-effect-3-bioware-on-surprises-inspiration-and-tough-decisions/

Second question.... interesting....

[elegolas1]

Arashi08 wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

elegolas1 wrote...

so where does the IT stand upon the announcement of the EC?

i'm scared by all this literalism talk on the forums

Bioware confirmed through twitter that the IT can still be left to interpretation. It's not going to be an outright confirmation or denial.

Kind of stupid, considering the EC is suppose to be provide clarity and closure. But hey I'm not a business man. What the **** do I know.

it seems like they looked at the different camps ppl are in and, in a similar fashion with Tali's face, they decided to go with the amgibuous route that doesn't favor one group over another so that they don't ****** off one side or the other.  Problem is, this ambiguity and speculation is likely to ****** everyone off now...  People want their questions answered not an open ended conclusion where we can all imagine we were right. 

IMO a good story should never end like that, the conflicts in a story should be resolved not open to interpretation, unless the creator wants the reader to learn something.

interpretation huh... maybe they'll put in heaps of clues which can't be discovered at face value
mindfu*king clues like the infrasound (i just watched hellish fiend's sounds of possession, mindfu*king indeed :happy: )

that really could work with the ambiguous nature lf indoctrination

shame that IT will always have to deal with arrogant forum goers

[FellishBeast]

thisisme8 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

Maybe at this point I'm just being stubborn - but it doesn't make sense that a race of synthetic beings whose sole purpose for millions of years is to continue the cycle would finally concede to ending the cycle by indoctrinating Shep. Regardless of which conclusion you pick, the cycle is over, making indoctrination moot.

Also, the Catalyst calls himself the Catalyst because that is what the creators of the Crucible called it.

They don't concede to ending the cycle...
And you are told by Vendetta that the Citadel is the Catalyst, which the child contradicts...

The Catalyst concedes to ending the cycle by presenting Shep with 3 different ways to do it.

Incorrect. He presents himself as conceding. In reality, he is offering 2 out of 3 choices that allow him to win. He paints the one that ruins his plans as the worst.

How does the Catalyst win?

Control:  Reapers go off into deep space never to be seen again.  Loss.
Synthesis:  Organics and Synthetics merge, ending their constant war with each other, ending the cycle and no longer requiring reapers to exist.  Loss.
Destruction:  All Synthetics are destroyed, including the reapers, for now.  Loss.

We are not taking these at face-value, remember?

[Bill Casey]

BatmanTurian wrote...

It can't. The presidium is what the wards hinge on.

It does...
The arms slide out...

[BatmanTurian]

thisisme8 wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

Maybe at this point I'm just being stubborn - but it doesn't make sense that a race of synthetic beings whose sole purpose for millions of years is to continue the cycle would finally concede to ending the cycle by indoctrinating Shep. Regardless of which conclusion you pick, the cycle is over, making indoctrination moot.

Also, the Catalyst calls himself the Catalyst because that is what the creators of the Crucible called it.

They don't concede to ending the cycle...
And you are told by Vendetta that the Citadel is the Catalyst, which the child contradicts...

The Catalyst concedes to ending the cycle by presenting Shep with 3 different ways to do it.

Incorrect. He presents himself as conceding. In reality, he is offering 2 out of 3 choices that allow him to win. He paints the one that ruins his plans as the worst.

How does the Catalyst win?

Control:  Reapers go off into deep space never to be seen again.  Loss.
Synthesis:  Organics and Synthetics merge, ending their constant war with each other, ending the cycle and no longer requiring reapers to exist.  Loss.
Destruction:  All Synthetics are destroyed, including the reapers, for now.  Loss.

Control: surrendering and becoming a tool that is Indoctrinated to think like TIM
Synthesis: surrendering and becoming a tool that is indoctrinated to think like Saren
Destroy: Shepard's true goal and the only way to break the indoctrination attempt, rejecting the Reaper values entirely.

[Iconoclaste]

Bill Casey wrote...

The back of the Citadel closes along with the front...

There are two sets of "tips" for each arm : one at each end. When the arms close, you can see the "joint" between the pointy tips and the flat end of the arms. You can have a close shot of the tips closing in the control ending, the same mechanism operates at the "bottom" part of the Citadel.

[llbountyhunter]

Bill Casey wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...

How does the Catalyst win?

Control:  Reapers go off into deep space never to be seen again.  Loss.
Synthesis:  Organics and Synthetics merge, ending their constant war with each other, ending the cycle and no longer requiring reapers to exist.  Loss.
Destruction:  All Synthetics are destroyed, including the reapers, for now.  Loss.

The choices aren't real...

How many times, do you think, untill they get this?