55528 réponses à ce sujet

[spotlessvoid]

If I controlled the Reapers I'd fly them into the sun.

Control: Destroy option 2

[Tirian Thorn]

RavenEyry wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

Maybe the EC will have the Crucible turn Shepard into a human bullet like superman, the Citadel firing him out like a cannon where he proceeds to punch through every single reaper in Sol before crashing like a meteor into London's rubble. There you have it, Bioware.

Best. Ending. Ever.

"What would the captain do?"
"DON'T FIRE A TORPEDO!"
"Fire a torpedo!"
"AAAAAAHHHHHH!!!"*CLANG*
"Sir, we've been hit by an enemy officer"

If they're going to fire on use.  We'll respond in kind.  Not me you idiots! 

[paxxton]

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

How can control be a viable option to Starchild? If Shepard really could control the Reapers, isn't that effectively the same choice as destroy? The assumption being Shepard would stop the Reapers from harvesting any further, meaning "the chaos would come back" just like Starchild claims regarding destroy. Isn't it essentially a choice of ending the Reapers (destroy/control) vs joining the Reapers (synthesis) ?
Yet isn't it even more likely that given what we know about TIM and Saren and Starchilds stated intentions, that the choice is really presented as beat the Reapers (destroy) vs submit to the Reapers (control/synthesis)

Assuming for a moment that Starchild's talk is irrelevant, Control gives Shepard, well, control over a powerful technological achievement.

The godchild says if you pick control you will lose everything that you are.

Theres literally no guarantee that after picking control, Shep wont eventually start agreeing with the godchild's logic and start the cycles over again.

Theres also no guarantee that the cycles are over with synthesis.

Literally the only way to guarantee an end to the cycles is destroy, and destroy is also what you've been working towards all three games.

IT or not, destroy is really the only option that makes any sense.

From Organics' perspective. Assume for a moment, however unthinkable this might seem, that the Reapers are in fact saving life by not allowing it to develop means to destroying itself. It's unpleasant for organics who aren't given a chance to try and annihalate themselves but it's necessary to preserve life.

[llbountyhunter]

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

How can control be a viable option to Starchild? If Shepard really could control the Reapers, isn't that effectively the same choice as destroy? The assumption being Shepard would stop the Reapers from harvesting any further, meaning "the chaos would come back" just like Starchild claims regarding destroy. Isn't it essentially a choice of ending the Reapers (destroy/control) vs joining the Reapers (synthesis) ?
Yet isn't it even more likely that given what we know about TIM and Saren and Starchilds stated intentions, that the choice is really presented as beat the Reapers (destroy) vs submit to the Reapers (control/synthesis)

Assuming for a moment that Starchild's talk is irrelevant, Control gives Shepard, well, control over a powerful technological achievement.

The godchild says if you pick control you will lose everything that you are.

Theres literally no guarantee that after picking control, Shep wont eventually start agreeing with the godchild's logic and start the cycles over again.

Theres also no guarantee that the cycles are over with synthesis.

Literally the only way to guarantee an end to the cycles is destroy, and destroy is also what you've been working towards all three games.

IT or not, destroy is really the only option that makes any sense.

From Organics' perspective. Assume for a moment, however unthinkable this might seem, that the Reapers are in fact saving life by not allowing it to develop means to destroying itself. It's unpleasant for organics who aren't given a chance to try and annihalate themselves but it's necessary to preserve life.

oh god not this again.

[spotlessvoid]

Btw the wave that blasts the Normandy isn't worse in destroy and clearly Shepard can live through destroy, so it doesn't actually seem like destroy does what Starchild claims

[RavenEyry]

We've got someone believing Mr. Sparkle's logic! Call the indoctrination police!

[Tirian Thorn]

RavenEyry wrote...

We've got someone believing Mr. Sparkle's logic! Call the indoctrination police!

[Unschuld]

paxxton wrote...
From Organics' perspective. Assume for a moment, however unthinkable this might seem, that the Reapers are in fact saving life by not allowing it to develop means to destroying itself. It's unpleasant for organics who aren't given a chance to try and annihalate themselves but it's necessary to preserve life.

Then to organics, Shepard is the biggest jerk of this cycle. This requires us, as organics, to realign ourselves to the Reapers' logic which we've been fighting for three games. I get it. Life needs to be pruned to make way for new life. Transcendence. Great. This totally makes me feel better about my "friends" (Garrus, Tali, Kaidan etc.) that I've grown to love through the three games, who's relationships could be said to be the core around which Mass Effect revolves. I'm totally not betraying them, I'm helping them against their will.

I see their logic, and I still reject it.

*spit*

Modifié par Unschuld, 18 mai 2012 - 08:47 .

[balance5050]

llbountyhunter wrote...

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

How can control be a viable option to Starchild? If Shepard really could control the Reapers, isn't that effectively the same choice as destroy? The assumption being Shepard would stop the Reapers from harvesting any further, meaning "the chaos would come back" just like Starchild claims regarding destroy. Isn't it essentially a choice of ending the Reapers (destroy/control) vs joining the Reapers (synthesis) ?
Yet isn't it even more likely that given what we know about TIM and Saren and Starchilds stated intentions, that the choice is really presented as beat the Reapers (destroy) vs submit to the Reapers (control/synthesis)

Assuming for a moment that Starchild's talk is irrelevant, Control gives Shepard, well, control over a powerful technological achievement.

The godchild says if you pick control you will lose everything that you are.

Theres literally no guarantee that after picking control, Shep wont eventually start agreeing with the godchild's logic and start the cycles over again.

Theres also no guarantee that the cycles are over with synthesis.

Literally the only way to guarantee an end to the cycles is destroy, and destroy is also what you've been working towards all three games.

IT or not, destroy is really the only option that makes any sense.

From Organics' perspective. Assume for a moment, however unthinkable this might seem, that the Reapers are in fact saving life by not allowing it to develop means to destroying itself. It's unpleasant for organics who aren't given a chance to try and annihalate themselves but it's necessary to preserve life.

oh god not this again.

Please not this again,

"Hey everyone! Just put yourselves in the mindset of the things that have been destroying everything you love for a minute!"

[Unschuld]

Screw it. I retract my previous statements about Lance's recent interview. Ctrl/Synth are  GAME OVER options. Nothing grey about it. There, I've said it.

Modifié par Unschuld, 18 mai 2012 - 08:55 .

[TSA_383]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Guys, I'd like to try an experiment if everyone's up for it.
I, or someone else, will create a save right before starting the cerberus base mission with a new character (ie, one that's not done the ending before) and upload it.

Then we'll get people to play through the ending, choosing destroy, control and synthesis.
Then we upload the saves/Newsave+/Legendsave on here and we'll see what's changed. Acceptable?

I'm in!

Sounds good, but to make it more precise we need to also sync the henchmen, loadout, and what to pick up during these missions (because of codex entries)

This is going to get complex

By the by, I've just made the case for IT from my position as a total wanker investor and I'm curious to see what you all think:
http://social.biowar.../index/12128204

[paxxton]

Unschuld wrote...

paxxton wrote...
From Organics' perspective. Assume for a moment, however unthinkable this might seem, that the Reapers are in fact saving life by not allowing it to develop means to destroying itself. It's unpleasant for organics who aren't given a chance to try and annihalate themselves but it's necessary to preserve life.

Then to organics, Shepard is the biggest jerk of this cycle. This requires us, as organics, to realign ourselves to the Reapers' logic which we've been fighting for three games. I get it. Life needs to be pruned to make way for new life. Transcendence. Great. This totally makes me feel better about my "friends" (Garrus, Tali, Kaidan etc.) that I've grown to love through the three games, who's relationships could be said to be the core around which Mass Effect revolves. I'm totally not betraying them, I'm helping them against their will.

I see their logic, and I still reject it.

*spit*

That's why you should choose Control and save them by changing Reapers' "programs". Destroy actually kills them all (they are all partially synthetic). Of course this would be that only if IT was wrong.

Modifié par paxxton, 18 mai 2012 - 08:57 .

[Xavendithas]

paxxton wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

paxxton wrote...
From Organics' perspective. Assume for a moment, however unthinkable this might seem, that the Reapers are in fact saving life by not allowing it to develop means to destroying itself. It's unpleasant for organics who aren't given a chance to try and annihalate themselves but it's necessary to preserve life.

Then to organics, Shepard is the biggest jerk of this cycle. This requires us, as organics, to realign ourselves to the Reapers' logic which we've been fighting for three games. I get it. Life needs to be pruned to make way for new life. Transcendence. Great. This totally makes me feel better about my "friends" (Garrus, Tali, Kaidan etc.) that I've grown to love through the three games, who's relationships could be said to be the core around which Mass Effect revolves. I'm totally not betraying them, I'm helping them against their will.

I see their logic, and I still reject it.

*spit*

That's why you should choose Control and save them by changing Reapers' "programs". Destroy actually kills them all (they are all partially synthetic). Of course this is that only if IT is wrong.

No. No. Just...No.

Even if IT is wrong and the endings are literal, I will gladly walk over and shoot that fraking tube. Every. Time.

[Tirian Thorn]

balance5050 wrote...


Please not this again,

"Hey everyone! Just put yourselves in the mindset of the things that have been destroying everything you love for a minute!"

Modifié par Tirian Thorn, 18 mai 2012 - 08:59 .

[Unschuld]

paxxton wrote...
That's why you should choose Control and save them by changing Reapers' "programs". Destroy actually kills them all (they are all partially synthetic). Of course this would be that only if IT was wrong.

Which is why they stepped quite healthily out of the Normandy, and why after the blast wave hits Earth, the soldiers stand up and cheer, even though just about everyone in the 'verse has some form of implant. Right? 

[RavenEyry]

Xavendithas wrote...

No. No. Just...No.

Even if IT is wrong and the endings are literal, I will gladly walk over and shoot that fraking tube. Every. Time.

Me too. But I'll always do it while thinking "Who would build a device that is activated by shooting it?"

[paxxton]

Xavendithas wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

paxxton wrote...
From Organics' perspective. Assume for a moment, however unthinkable this might seem, that the Reapers are in fact saving life by not allowing it to develop means to destroying itself. It's unpleasant for organics who aren't given a chance to try and annihalate themselves but it's necessary to preserve life.

Then to organics, Shepard is the biggest jerk of this cycle. This requires us, as organics, to realign ourselves to the Reapers' logic which we've been fighting for three games. I get it. Life needs to be pruned to make way for new life. Transcendence. Great. This totally makes me feel better about my "friends" (Garrus, Tali, Kaidan etc.) that I've grown to love through the three games, who's relationships could be said to be the core around which Mass Effect revolves. I'm totally not betraying them, I'm helping them against their will.

I see their logic, and I still reject it.

*spit*

That's why you should choose Control and save them by changing Reapers' "programs". Destroy actually kills them all (they are all partially synthetic). Of course this is that only if IT is wrong.

No. No. Just...No.

Even if IT is wrong and the endings are literal, I will gladly walk over and shoot that fraking tube. Every. Time.

Really? And then what?

[paxxton]

Unschuld wrote...

paxxton wrote...
That's why you should choose Control and save them by changing Reapers' "programs". Destroy actually kills them all (they are all partially synthetic). Of course this would be that only if IT was wrong.

Which is why they stepped quite healthily out of the Normandy, and why after the blast wave hits Earth, the soldiers stand up and cheer, even though just about everyone in the 'verse has some form of implant. Right? 

I added crucial emphasis. Besides, they are happy for the moment because they don't know that their VIs are trash now.

Modifié par paxxton, 18 mai 2012 - 09:04 .

[byne]

paxxton wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

paxxton wrote...
From Organics' perspective. Assume for a moment, however unthinkable this might seem, that the Reapers are in fact saving life by not allowing it to develop means to destroying itself. It's unpleasant for organics who aren't given a chance to try and annihalate themselves but it's necessary to preserve life.

Then to organics, Shepard is the biggest jerk of this cycle. This requires us, as organics, to realign ourselves to the Reapers' logic which we've been fighting for three games. I get it. Life needs to be pruned to make way for new life. Transcendence. Great. This totally makes me feel better about my "friends" (Garrus, Tali, Kaidan etc.) that I've grown to love through the three games, who's relationships could be said to be the core around which Mass Effect revolves. I'm totally not betraying them, I'm helping them against their will.

I see their logic, and I still reject it.

*spit*

That's why you should choose Control and save them by changing Reapers' "programs". Destroy actually kills them all (they are all partially synthetic). Of course this is that only if IT is wrong.

No. No. Just...No.

Even if IT is wrong and the endings are literal, I will gladly walk over and shoot that fraking tube. Every. Time.

Really? And then what?

And then we accomplish what we were trying to do all 3 games. Destroying the Reapers.

To quote godchild: "You will lose everything that you are" if you pick control. Theres no changing the Reaper programs in it. You're gone. You're the new Catalyst.

To quote the Geth Prime who shows up in Tali's place at the end if you side with the geth over the quarians: "We will not relinquish sentience. There will be no further compromise with the Old Machines."

Even the Geth know there should be no compromise. Destroy the Reapers or you betray everything you and all your allies have fought for.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

paxxton wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

paxxton wrote...
From Organics' perspective. Assume for a moment, however unthinkable this might seem, that the Reapers are in fact saving life by not allowing it to develop means to destroying itself. It's unpleasant for organics who aren't given a chance to try and annihalate themselves but it's necessary to preserve life.

Then to organics, Shepard is the biggest jerk of this cycle. This requires us, as organics, to realign ourselves to the Reapers' logic which we've been fighting for three games. I get it. Life needs to be pruned to make way for new life. Transcendence. Great. This totally makes me feel better about my "friends" (Garrus, Tali, Kaidan etc.) that I've grown to love through the three games, who's relationships could be said to be the core around which Mass Effect revolves. I'm totally not betraying them, I'm helping them against their will.

I see their logic, and I still reject it.

*spit*

That's why you should choose Control and save them by changing Reapers' "programs". Destroy actually kills them all (they are all partially synthetic). Of course this is that only if IT is wrong.

No. No. Just...No.

Even if IT is wrong and the endings are literal, I will gladly walk over and shoot that fraking tube. Every. Time.

Really? And then what?

We rebuild. It has been once and at least we know about the technology now and dont have to discover it.

The galaxy might be divided (no matter the ending) and the planets devastated, but the threat of the Reapers is gone forever. We have time to rebuild now and even if we dont succeed, other races will rise and they wont have to fear the Reapers in any way.

We dont know that with Control or Synthesis since in both the reapers still exist.

But again this is if we take it litteally, something i doubt i could even if Bioware went out and said taht is how it is.

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 18 mai 2012 - 09:08 .

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Actually ahs anyone figured out what makes the Starbrat inclusde the "and most technology" line when talking about Destroy? Is it EMS based or...?

Modifié par Raistlin Majare 1992, 18 mai 2012 - 09:09 .

[GethPrimeMKII]

Xavendithas wrote...

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

 Hey all. I've been gone for a few days so I have a lot of catching up to do. In the meantime I wanted to bring up a new topic: the Rannoch Reaper.

Has anyone noticed how the camera pulses? At first I thought it was a glitch, but it seems to be deliberate. I'm thinking it could be infrasonic noise. As we know, infrasonic noise is below the range of hearing, but can be FELT subconsciously and as a vibration. Indoctrination signals?

Also, I've noticed that the Reaper's red eye stays lit even though he is supposedly dead, AND the camera angle shows it a lot during the ensuing geth/quarian peace/war cutscenes.

Thoughts, anyone?

The derelict reaper scene in ME2 makes it seem as though the reapers have more of a passive indoctrination field that is always present. Just being in the vicinity of the reaper will have a subtle effect on the person. Do they establish in the lore anywhere if this is the case or if the reaper can boost the signal through infrasonics and the like?

Dunno if this has been answered yet, but it is established elsewhere in the lore that simply being around a reaper will screw with your mind. Remember what Benezia said back in Mass Effect. By simply being around Sovereign, Saren's suggestions became more convincing and she felt compelled to follow him. What's interesting is that her original intention for following Saren was to put a stop to his plans. A clear demonstration of the powerful effect reapers can have on the mind.

Yeah, someone answered my question. Your point about Benezia got me thinking though. She was able to break free of Indoctrination, if only for a moment or two. Obviously she was able to...compartmentalize(?) part of her mind allowing her access to it when she needed it. Has there been any discussion of the scene between Liara and Shep near the end when Liara melds with Shep and shares that vision? Could Liara possibly know what her mother was able to do and was actually planting a similar failsafe in Shep's head in the event that s/he had to break free of indoctrination?

Nothing in the story I know of suggests Liara has such advanced ability. Even if she could compartmentalize her mind like Benezia theres nothing in the story to suggest any asari can do such a thing to another's mind. Its also highly unlikely anyone knows Shep is slowly succumbing to indoctrination.

[Arian Dynas]

RavenEyry wrote...

I thought the pistol was just narrative convenience the first time, but all this weirdness surrounding it makes it suspicious. I've recently begun to wonder just how you lost all your old guns. Since it's possible to be carrying up to five and they're nowhere to be seen after the beam, it kind of implies reaper death rays disintergrate guns. But not that carnifex that happens to be lying around where Shep falls, even though there aren't any bodies close.

Off-topic: Clint Eastwood would be great for Zaeed if they ever make those films they keep talking about.

I always just figured some asshoIe hocked the armory. I dedicated myself to finding that man and shooting his kneecaps off.

bigstig wrote...

Update Still awaiting confirmation from @MassEffect twitter feed but:

Mac Walters apparently did major in Psychology as per this tweet dated back 26th January

In case you can't follow the link, when asked: "What was your college degree(s) or first writing job. Trying to figure out how to follow my passion. Most useful skill?"

His response was

Mac Walters wrote...
Oh god... I might be a terrible example. Psychology. And #BioWare was the first to pay me to write. And... Adaptability.

So there we have it, he does have a degree in psychology.

Side note, he may regret that part about being a terrible example in the light of the anger over the conclusion of the trilogy

Ooooooh, so it was MAC who had the degree... ok. Still works for me. How about you?

Kaelef wrote...

Answer: no

/thread

Mind backing that up with something of substance there sparky?

DJBare wrote...

Just to clear up something

They both graduated as medical doctors, having been married to a senior psychiatric nurse I can tell you medical doctors have a great deal of contact with psychiatric doctors, they need to especially when medically treating people with psychiatric problems, they have all the information they need to play a mind game.

So, Mac Walters with a psych degree, Ray Musyka and Greg Zeschuk (whom I have never heard of before, so he many not even be with them anymore) as MDs,  I agree, plenty of knowledge to screw with heads. 

[Lokanaiya]

@TSA_383 I'd be glad to help you.

[Unschuld]

paxxton wrote...
Of course this would be that only if IT was wrong.

paxxton wrote... 
I added crucial emphasis. Besides, they are happy for the moment because they don't know that their VIs are trash now.

I know. That's why I've been going over the endings in my head again for the past few hours regarding literal interpretation. All of them suck (even harder than I thought before), with destroy sucking the least from my perspective. If you take IT out of the equation and just make Ctrl/Synth into traps, it actually makes things better, and makes more sense... I guess.

Man, I really hope IT has some bearing on the EC. More so than ever.