55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Bill Casey]

The Codex

Should a Reaper subvert a well-placed political or military leader, the resulting chaos can bring down nations.

...

[JasonSic]

I noticed that when Harbinger shoots Shepard with his beam, we never actually see it hit Shepard. The screen fades to white before that. Meaning Shepard may never actually get hit by the beam, it just comes close enough to knock him out, or start the hallucination.

[DistantUtopia]

byne wrote...

DistantUtopia wrote...

byne wrote...


Who said destroy or control actually destroyed or controlled in the real world?

Synthesis and control = indoctrinated

Destroy = breaking free

You seem to forget the Crucible is still there. We havent used it yet in IT. We can still use it to beat the Reapers.

Yes, but again, assuming IT to be true, what happens afterwards for Synthesis/Control?  I can't believe that Shepard (as someone so eloquently put it) simply ups and shoots his friends in the back after waking up.

Then dont pick Synthesis/Control?

But what if I want to know? 

[dreamgazer]

The Invisible Commando wrote...

War is over? Shepard is a thorn but is still just one human. I'm sure that husk army can do more damage. Starchild is desprate to stop Shepard at the last minute. "Woah hey there pal, you don't want to kill us. We can be friends right?" Harby just failed to kill Shepard so the big boss has to step in.

The average Asari and Javik can pull some pretty awesome mind tricks. Hell, Javik can tell who was in the room months ago. I gonna bet a Reaper can do that and more.

The first statement doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but okay. Killing Shepard wouldn't be killing one human---it'd be killing the peace-broker, the soldier-cajoler, the geth-slayer, the Citadel-savior, the Reaper-killer.  And again, think about martyrdom.

So, is it your viewpoint that indoctrination doesn't come into the picture at all, and that the persistent mentioning of indoctrination in the story and the heavily-alluded symptoms Shepard suffers are nothing but self-created illusions?

Modifié par dreamgazer, 14 mai 2012 - 07:23 .

[balance5050]

Bill Casey wrote...

The Codex

Should a Reaper subvert a well-placed political or military leader, the resulting chaos can bring down nations.

...

Pretty much this, indoctrinating Shep would be like catching a prized Bass. Sorry, that was the best analogy I could think of.

Modifié par balance5050, 14 mai 2012 - 07:24 .

[Uncle Jo]

DJBare wrote...

Bought this across also, the obvious weapon switch from Carnifex to Predator

In the last cutscene before where Shep is shooting at the tank, he was using a carnifex. I'm absolutely sure of that. Strange that it suddendly switches to a predator just as the tank exploded.

P.S: Good to see you guys and the IT-thread again...

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 14 mai 2012 - 07:30 .

[MaximizedAction]

JasonSic wrote...

I noticed that when Harbinger shoots Shepard with his beam, we never actually see it hit Shepard. The screen fades to white before that. Meaning Shepard may never actually get hit by the beam, it just comes close enough to knock him out, or start the hallucination.

Imo, absolutely possible. The armor damage seen in the Shep alive scene might've resulted from what happened after the beam attack.

[MegumiAzusa]

JasonSic wrote...

I noticed that when Harbinger shoots Shepard with his beam, we never actually see it hit Shepard. The screen fades to white before that. Meaning Shepard may never actually get hit by the beam, it just comes close enough to knock him out, or start the hallucination.

Tried to bring that up several times, most common answer is "you can't see if he gets hit or not".

[M Hedonist]

Ravereth wrote...

http://desmond.image...png&res=landing
+
"You have hope, more than you think"
=
"How many reapers does it take to stop Commander Shepard? six houndred and one. Six houndred fight his intergalactic armada and one pretends to be a kid and talks him into suicide"
OK I gues I should go play some MP... 

"No, seriously, Synthesis is really cool, all of my friends say so, too. Yeah, everybody's gonna be fine, it's the final evolution of life. You just gotta take my word for it. Do I look like I would lie to you? :lol:"

[MegumiAzusa]

Uncle Jo wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Bought this across also, the obvious weapon switch from Carnifex to Predator

In the last cutscene before where Shep is shooting at the tank, he was using a carnifex. I'm absolutely sure of that. Strange that it suddendly switches to a predator just as the tank exploded.

P.S: Good to see you guys and the IT-thread again...

Ignore the Predator in her holster, it's only already there because I reloaded, but the weapon switch happens in any case.

[ExtendedCut]

The Invisible Commando wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

The Invisible Commando wrote...

If they went with IT, it would be fan appeasement. "Okay lets roll with your ending and make you happy." . We all see that Bioware does not like being told their ending ideas suck. To roll with IT is like saying "yes we did not make a real ending"

The child was always some attempt at poetry that Shepard is hurting inside that he can't save everyone. The StarBrat is a Reaper using his weakness against him. Yes its not great writing, but I get it.

How do you know that IT is wrong and your headcanon is right? Maybe Bioware always intended IT. Your headcanon isn't much less baseless than IT.
Besides, how did the Reaper know Shepard was "hurting inside" about that child?
I found a plot hole in your headcanon.

Reapers can speak to the mind. They can get in your head. That doesn't mean you have to be fully indotrinated for that to happen. Shepard is famous among the Reapers, their big nemesis. Use his weakness on him.

Your also talking to the Reaper God. It is very powerful and since its poorly intoduced, we don't know what it can and can not do. If the average Reaper can turn organics into husks, it stands to reason their god can do more. Trying to fool Shepard with a child that Shepard is thinks about won't be too hard.

If Shepard is on the ground in London and the Reaper in his head knows he is alive then why not just finish him off and end the anti-Reaper threat. Reapers aren't smart enought to hit him twice?

Your turning Reapers into James Bond villians who never just shoot Bond in the head. Have to do it the hard way for some reason?

"Trying to fool Shepard with a child that Shepard is thinks about won't be too hard" = Indoctrination???

[DJBare]

JasonSic wrote...

I noticed that when Harbinger shoots Shepard with his beam, we never actually see it hit Shepard. The screen fades to white before that. Meaning Shepard may never actually get hit by the beam, it just comes close enough to knock him out, or start the hallucination.

Here's a thought, Shepard may not have even got that far, when in the armored personnel vehicle it crashes and lights out.

[SS2Dante]

JasonSic wrote...

I noticed that when Harbinger shoots Shepard with his beam, we never actually see it hit Shepard. The screen fades to white before that. Meaning Shepard may never actually get hit by the beam, it just comes close enough to knock him out, or start the hallucination.

It fades to white while playing a choir-like sound effect. A choir like sound effect that only ever heard in the dreams and the Crucible section...

[dreman9999]

Uncle Jo wrote...

DJBare wrote...

Bought this across also, the obvious weapon switch from Carnifex to Predator

In the last cutscene before where Shep is shooting at the tank, he was using a carnifex. I'm absolutely sure of that. Strange that it suddendly switches to a predator just as the tank exploded.

P.S: Good to see you guys and the IT-thread again...

As much as I'm for the theory, I can't take this as proof....This happensall the time in ME. I go tothe Shadow broker with a phanix at the starteofthe scene and in the midle of it...The gun turns into a 
Carnifex.

[dreamgazer]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

I noticed that when Harbinger shoots Shepard with his beam, we never actually see it hit Shepard. The screen fades to white before that. Meaning Shepard may never actually get hit by the beam, it just comes close enough to knock him out, or start the hallucination.

Tried to bring that up several times, most common answer is "you can't see if he gets hit or not".

I thought it was a screen-shot of yours that showed the armor post-hit---suggesting that it might have merely side-swiped Shepard, perhaps intentionally?

[dreman9999]

ExtendedCut wrote...

The Invisible Commando wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

The Invisible Commando wrote...

If they went with IT, it would be fan appeasement. "Okay lets roll with your ending and make you happy." . We all see that Bioware does not like being told their ending ideas suck. To roll with IT is like saying "yes we did not make a real ending"

The child was always some attempt at poetry that Shepard is hurting inside that he can't save everyone. The StarBrat is a Reaper using his weakness against him. Yes its not great writing, but I get it.

How do you know that IT is wrong and your headcanon is right? Maybe Bioware always intended IT. Your headcanon isn't much less baseless than IT.
Besides, how did the Reaper know Shepard was "hurting inside" about that child?
I found a plot hole in your headcanon.

Reapers can speak to the mind. They can get in your head. That doesn't mean you have to be fully indotrinated for that to happen. Shepard is famous among the Reapers, their big nemesis. Use his weakness on him.

Your also talking to the Reaper God. It is very powerful and since its poorly intoduced, we don't know what it can and can not do. If the average Reaper can turn organics into husks, it stands to reason their god can do more. Trying to fool Shepard with a child that Shepard is thinks about won't be too hard.

If Shepard is on the ground in London and the Reaper in his head knows he is alive then why not just finish him off and end the anti-Reaper threat. Reapers aren't smart enought to hit him twice?

Your turning Reapers into James Bond villians who never just shoot Bond in the head. Have to do it the hard way for some reason?

"Trying to fool Shepard with a child that Shepard is thinks about won't be too hard" = Indoctrination???

How would they know Shepard is thinking about that child?

[The Invisible Commando]

dreamgazer wrote...

The Invisible Commando wrote...

War is over? Shepard is a thorn but is still just one human. I'm sure that husk army can do more damage. Starchild is desprate to stop Shepard at the last minute. "Woah hey there pal, you don't want to kill us. We can be friends right?" Harby just failed to kill Shepard so the big boss has to step in.

The average Asari and Javik can pull some pretty awesome mind tricks. Hell, Javik can tell who was in the room months ago. I gonna bet a Reaper can do that and more.

The first statement doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but okay. Killing Shepard wouldn't be killing one human---it'd be killing the peace-broker, the soldier-cajoler, the geth-slayer, the Citadel-savior, the Reaper-killer.  And again, think about martyrdom.

So, is it your viewpoint that indoctrination doesn't come into the picture at all, and that the persistent mentioning of indoctrination in the story and the heavily-alluded symptoms Shepard suffers are nothing but self-created illusions?

At the end? Shepard is hurt bad. The Starchild is Reaper boss in child form. The hologram is real.

At this point Shepard already united the galaxy against the Reapers one way or another. The only effective weapon to their genocide is built. Trying to indocrinate Shepard at this point is pointless. Shepard already did what he/she had to do.

Only thing left is to try to bargan with him. I do hate that Shepard is letting himself bargan with Reapers, but that is how they wrote it.

Modifié par The Invisible Commando, 14 mai 2012 - 07:35 .

[paxxton]

DJBare wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

I noticed that when Harbinger shoots Shepard with his beam, we never actually see it hit Shepard. The screen fades to white before that. Meaning Shepard may never actually get hit by the beam, it just comes close enough to knock him out, or start the hallucination.

Here's a thought, Shepard may not have even got that far, when in the armored personnel vehicle it crashes and lights out.

Or he could have passed away in Vancouver HQ after hitting his head against a bench. And his spirit is being indoctrinated.

Modifié par paxxton, 14 mai 2012 - 07:34 .

[MegumiAzusa]

dreamgazer wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

I noticed that when Harbinger shoots Shepard with his beam, we never actually see it hit Shepard. The screen fades to white before that. Meaning Shepard may never actually get hit by the beam, it just comes close enough to knock him out, or start the hallucination.

Tried to bring that up several times, most common answer is "you can't see if he gets hit or not".

I thought it was a screen-shot of yours that showed the armor post-hit---suggesting that it might have merely side-swiped Shepard, perhaps intentionally?

I dunno of any screenshot, but I am relatively certain that it's the case, there is significantly more burn damage on her left.

[The Invisible Commando]

dreman9999 wrote...

ExtendedCut wrote...

The Invisible Commando wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

The Invisible Commando wrote...

If they went with IT, it would be fan appeasement. "Okay lets roll with your ending and make you happy." . We all see that Bioware does not like being told their ending ideas suck. To roll with IT is like saying "yes we did not make a real ending"

The child was always some attempt at poetry that Shepard is hurting inside that he can't save everyone. The StarBrat is a Reaper using his weakness against him. Yes its not great writing, but I get it.

How do you know that IT is wrong and your headcanon is right? Maybe Bioware always intended IT. Your headcanon isn't much less baseless than IT.
Besides, how did the Reaper know Shepard was "hurting inside" about that child?
I found a plot hole in your headcanon.

Reapers can speak to the mind. They can get in your head. That doesn't mean you have to be fully indotrinated for that to happen. Shepard is famous among the Reapers, their big nemesis. Use his weakness on him.

Your also talking to the Reaper God. It is very powerful and since its poorly intoduced, we don't know what it can and can not do. If the average Reaper can turn organics into husks, it stands to reason their god can do more. Trying to fool Shepard with a child that Shepard is thinks about won't be too hard.

If Shepard is on the ground in London and the Reaper in his head knows he is alive then why not just finish him off and end the anti-Reaper threat. Reapers aren't smart enought to hit him twice?

Your turning Reapers into James Bond villians who never just shoot Bond in the head. Have to do it the hard way for some reason?

"Trying to fool Shepard with a child that Shepard is thinks about won't be too hard" = Indoctrination???

How would they know Shepard is thinking about that child?

Answered in a previous comment. Asari and Javik can do mind tricks too and they are far inferior to Reapers.

[balance5050]

The Invisible Commando wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

The Invisible Commando wrote...

War is over? Shepard is a thorn but is still just one human. I'm sure that husk army can do more damage. Starchild is desprate to stop Shepard at the last minute. "Woah hey there pal, you don't want to kill us. We can be friends right?" Harby just failed to kill Shepard so the big boss has to step in.

The average Asari and Javik can pull some pretty awesome mind tricks. Hell, Javik can tell who was in the room months ago. I gonna bet a Reaper can do that and more.

The first statement doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but okay. Killing Shepard wouldn't be killing one human---it'd be killing the peace-broker, the soldier-cajoler, the geth-slayer, the Citadel-savior, the Reaper-killer.  And again, think about martyrdom.

So, is it your viewpoint that indoctrination doesn't come into the picture at all, and that the persistent mentioning of indoctrination in the story and the heavily-alluded symptoms Shepard suffers are nothing but self-created illusions?

At the end? Shepard is hurt bad. The Starchild is Reaper boss in child form. The hologram is real.

At this point Shepard already united the galaxy against the Reapers one way or another. The only effective weapons to their genocide is built. Trying to indocrinate Shepard at this point is pointless. Shepard already did what he/she ad to do.

Only thing left is to try to bargan with him. I do hate that Shepard is letting himself bargan with Reapers, but that is how the wrote it.

Right, so an indoctrinated Shepard would be the only way to dismantle the resistance that Shepard already started, if he dies he becomes a martyr and only makes the resistance fight back harder.

Modifié par balance5050, 14 mai 2012 - 07:35 .

[ExtendedCut]

Sauruz wrote...

Ravereth wrote...

http://desmond.image...png&res=landing
+
"You have hope, more than you think"
=
"How many reapers does it take to stop Commander Shepard? six houndred and one. Six houndred fight his intergalactic armada and one pretends to be a kid and talks him into suicide"
OK I gues I should go play some MP... 

"No, seriously, Synthesis is really cool, all of my friends say so, too. Yeah, everybody's gonna be fine, it's the final evolution of life. You just gotta take my word for it. Do I look like I would lie to you? :lol:"

LOL! 

Starkid to Shepard:  "Chose Synthesis and then I'll let you into my Little Rascals gang.  Then you and me can sneak out of 3rd grade and go to the Boys Bathroom and smoke cigarettes".

[spotlessvoid]

Great job getting us up and running again Byne

[ExtendedCut]

dreman9999 wrote...

ExtendedCut wrote...

The Invisible Commando wrote...

Sauruz wrote...

The Invisible Commando wrote...

If they went with IT, it would be fan appeasement. "Okay lets roll with your ending and make you happy." . We all see that Bioware does not like being told their ending ideas suck. To roll with IT is like saying "yes we did not make a real ending"

The child was always some attempt at poetry that Shepard is hurting inside that he can't save everyone. The StarBrat is a Reaper using his weakness against him. Yes its not great writing, but I get it.

How do you know that IT is wrong and your headcanon is right? Maybe Bioware always intended IT. Your headcanon isn't much less baseless than IT.
Besides, how did the Reaper know Shepard was "hurting inside" about that child?
I found a plot hole in your headcanon.

Reapers can speak to the mind. They can get in your head. That doesn't mean you have to be fully indotrinated for that to happen. Shepard is famous among the Reapers, their big nemesis. Use his weakness on him.

Your also talking to the Reaper God. It is very powerful and since its poorly intoduced, we don't know what it can and can not do. If the average Reaper can turn organics into husks, it stands to reason their god can do more. Trying to fool Shepard with a child that Shepard is thinks about won't be too hard.

If Shepard is on the ground in London and the Reaper in his head knows he is alive then why not just finish him off and end the anti-Reaper threat. Reapers aren't smart enought to hit him twice?

Your turning Reapers into James Bond villians who never just shoot Bond in the head. Have to do it the hard way for some reason?

"Trying to fool Shepard with a child that Shepard is thinks about won't be too hard" = Indoctrination???

How would they know Shepard is thinking about that child?

That's my point.  The Reapers, in a face-value ending, couldn't know anythng about the Vancouver-kid-in-the-vent,  so how would they know to have the Starkid appear as the vent-kid? 

However, in IT, it is explainable because the Starkid is merely an illusion/hallucination that appears to Shepard due to the suggestions of the Reaper indoctrination.  In other words, Shepard takes the indoctrination suggestion and forms his "dream" into what he knows and it familiar with - the vent-kid that has been haunting his dreams.

[dreman9999]

Sauruz wrote...

Ravereth wrote...

http://desmond.image...png&res=landing
+
"You have hope, more than you think"
=
"How many reapers does it take to stop Commander Shepard? six houndred and one. Six houndred fight his intergalactic armada and one pretends to be a kid and talks him into suicide"
OK I gues I should go play some MP... 

"No, seriously, Synthesis is really cool, all of my friends say so, too. Yeah, everybody's gonna be fine, it's the final evolution of life. You just gotta take my word for it. Do I look like I would lie to you? :lol:"

"You let them implant you?...Are you insane?"
-Shepard, ME1.