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[xsdob]

Is this where the "wake up, shepard" banners were made? Because if so I'd like to thank the artist who made them for giving me a template to make my control ending banner.

You helped me immensely, thank you.

[BatmanTurian]

xsdob wrote...

Is this where the "wake up, shepard" banners were made? Because if so I'd like to thank the artist who made them for giving me a template to make my control ending banner.

You helped me immensely, thank you.

No, somebody from the Indoctrination Documentary thread made them.

EDIT: nevermind.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 19 mai 2012 - 06:16 .

[xsdob]

BatmanTurian wrote...

xsdob wrote...

Is this where the "wake up, shepard" banners were made? Because if so I'd like to thank the artist who made them for giving me a template to make my control ending banner.

You helped me immensely, thank you.

No, somebody from the Indoctrination Documentary thread made them.

EDIT: also you spelled choose wrong in your edited picture.

I've been through 7 drafts so far. Many more to come.

I'll try and find the poster who made them and give them my thanks.

[TSA_383]

BatmanTurian wrote...

I'm out, just wanted to throw that out there since I've been thinking about it. Theoretical Physics, Quantum Mechanics, and Cosmology are kind of fetishes of mine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navier%E2%80%93Stokes_equations
^Get on it then, make my life easier and make a million dollars in the process

It's interesting the stuff that's just been posted - we've taken apart the entire ending but nobody has looked at the beginning of the game for clues...

[spotlessvoid]

BatmanTurian wrote...

I'm out, just wanted to throw that out there since I've been thinking about it. Theoretical Physics, Quantum Mechanics, and Cosmology are kind of fetishes of mine

Truly fascinating subject matters. I personally am obsessed with ontology and phenomenology

[Jadebaby]

TSA_383 wrote...

So, after a prod from Megumi, I decided to go back through the subtitle logs of the Anderson/TIM convo at the end, and found one or two things that are very interesting...

1-The subtitles always show who is the speaker, and who is the listener, this is also often used in the character movements when defining who someone is looking at.
From the subtitles script, Anderson/TIM are ALWAYS talking to Shepard, never to each other.

2-Notably, when anderson says "you're indoctrinated" he's talking to Shepard, not TIM.

3-Here are some of anderson's lines which are interspersed between dialogue options for certain choices, all directed at Shepard remember:
"Bull****. We destroy them, or they destroy us."
"Just do it, Shepard."
"Just do it, Commander."
"You're not making sense."
"Bull****. The Crucible will destroy them."
"Wiping them out is the only way to end this."
"He's lost it."

And now the same for The Illusive Man:
"Don't fight it, Shepard."
"That won't work."
"Don't waste your energy."
"Not while I'm in control."
"Still fighting it?"

More to come, may post a wall of text shortly.

I'm bumping this because it is the most interesting thing I've heard all week relating to the IDT.
Well done!

[Salient Archer]

TSA_383 wrote...


What can I say, I'm an aeronautics student specialising in subsonic aerodynamics.
Call me back when you physics guys have sorted out the navier-stokes equations, that'd be just peachy.

And I just assumed magic kept my F-111C Pig in the air.

[DirtyPhoenix]

Soo... anything new? (except physics stuff)

[Arian Dynas]

Check two posts above.

[Sajuro]

pirate1802 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Unschuld wrote...

spotlessvoid wrote...

Control is bad for 2 simple reasons:

1. "Controlling" the Reapers. Haha.

2. No breath scene

Some people see it as a "sacrifice". Yeah, whatever... Even if Shepard wasn't indoctrinated and this is "the only reason TIM couldn't" as the catalyst says, control still seems like a thinly veiled ruse.

Control is the best option possible (if IT is wrong) and starchild is truthful.

Fixed xD, Though I can't still wrap my head around what he says. "You'll lose everything you have", whats the guarantee that Shep won't lose his/her humanity/mind andf restart the cycle? It certainly counts among everything he has.
*Mordin voice* Too many unknowns... problematic.

No Soul, replaced by tech

[Salient Archer]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Bumping because I want some opinions, and I only do this for you guys. So, thoughts damn it!

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, thought for my script, mentioned the idea that the Crucible is genuine, but missing a vital component, say something as simple as two wires being reversed, like plugging a AC plug into a DC socket, causing the whole crucible to explode if used, now assuming Coates is a traitor, how do you think this idea would go down? If your EMS is too low, Coates shoots Anderson and the Reapers win, if your EMS is slightly higher, Anderson shrugs off the shot, charges in and swaps the cables himself, being electrocuted in the process, if your EMS is very high, Anderson is able to convince Coates they have a chance and Coates himself breaks indoctrination and charges into the room and switches the cables, dying a hero as he is electrocuted, drawing similarities to the Control panels, though I need a way for the Allied forces to get this all important intel. Hmm, perhaps if Mordin or the Geth are alive then you have a chance to have them stumble across it as the Crucible prepares to dock? Or perhaps if you have more than 300 Crucible specific EMS?

Where exactly in your script would you have it take place?.

Although the polarity switch idea is a good quick scripting mechanic I've always liked the idea of the crucible being genuine but either missing a key component or there being a misunderstanding of how to implement an existing component such as the proto-reaper brain/heart. This could be tied into your cable/polarity switching concept, and as it’s the last part of the crucible collected before the London mission it could help add some reality as to why the flaw is only discovered during the final moments.

EDIT: this could also add more weight to the end choice of ME2, due to the fact that it might be either the Brain or the Heart of the proto-reaper, and hence leading to different outcomes because of the component.

Modifié par Salient Archer, 19 mai 2012 - 08:57 .

[Bill Casey]

pirate1802 wrote...

Though I can't still wrap my head around what he says. "You'll lose everything you have", whats the guarantee that Shep won't lose his/her humanity/mind andf restart the cycle? It certainly counts among everything he has.

Too much this...

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DrunkOnTheDarkSide
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilIsNotAToy
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ArtifactOfDoom
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WithGreatPowerComesGreatInsanity
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThisIsYourBrainOnEvil
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ForbiddenFruit
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SchmuckBait
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DidYouActuallyBelieve

Modifié par Bill Casey, 19 mai 2012 - 09:14 .

[DirtyPhoenix]

I find it interesting that destroying the collector base gives you reaper heart (you listened to your heart). And saving it gives you reaper brain (you listened to your head). I know its not a perfect comparison, but interesting nontheless.

[BleedingUranium]

pirate1802 wrote...

I find it interesting that destroying the collector base gives you reaper heart (you listened to your heart). And saving it gives you reaper brain (you listened to your head). I know its not a perfect comparison, but interesting nontheless.

Never thought of it like that, but it makes sense.

[Salient Archer]

If we were to consider that ME:Cerberus was an idea the reapers gave Jack Harper [as Cerberus only came to exist after he had contact with the Arch Monolith] what are some of the parallels and motifs we can draw from the name?

Well the most popular beliefs say that Cerberus was the three headed guardian of the underworld, He is the son of Echidna [who was half woman, half serpent/demon] and Typhon [a fire breathing giant even the Gods feared].

Each one of his heads representing either birth, life and death or the past, present and future. Hmm, what else in the mass effect trilogy also represents the idea of things that are related but with distinct differences or stages.

Obviously the imagery of three is rich with ME:Cerberus, considering their logo is made up of three unique parts, the illusive man has three brightly coloured orbs in his eyes [although these eyes were created by contact with the Reaper artefact] and even the Cerberus Skunkworks emblem from ME has the three motif going for it.

In Greek mythology, It is said that Cerberus only feasted on the flesh of the living and hence only the undead could enter the underworld but yet none of them could leave.

Hercules final mission was to trap Cerberus as punishment for killing his own children [he was driven mad by Hera at the time] to successfully take down Cerberus he had to be initiated into the Eleusinian mysteries so he could learn how to navigate in and out of the underworld untouched.

By the way Elusinian evolved into the word elusive "difficult to catch".

Once Herc meet up with Hades he was told he could have Cerberus but only if he could take the beast down without weapons, Hercules suceded. Hercules {with Cerberus on his back} travelled back to the mortal realm and presented Cerberus to King Eurystheus, the king not expecting Hercules to be capable of the task was so terrified of Hercules and the beast that he asked Hercules to return it to the underworld and in some versions this act also cleansed Hecules of any remnants of his madness.

Anyway, just some food for thought and hopefully debate.

Modifié par Salient Archer, 19 mai 2012 - 10:14 .

[Salient Archer]

BleedingUranium wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

I find it interesting that destroying the collector base gives you reaper heart (you listened to your heart). And saving it gives you reaper brain (you listened to your head). I know its not a perfect comparison, but interesting nontheless.

Never thought of it like that, but it makes sense.

I actually think it's a fitting parallel

[Rosewind]

pirate1802 wrote...

I find it interesting that destroying the collector base gives you reaper heart (you listened to your heart). And saving it gives you reaper brain (you listened to your head). I know its not a perfect comparison, but interesting nontheless.

Seems like symbolism to me, not IT symbolism but still symbolism.....

[RavenEyry]

pirate1802 wrote...

I find it interesting that destroying the collector base gives you reaper heart (you listened to your heart). And saving it gives you reaper brain (you listened to your head). I know its not a perfect comparison, but interesting nontheless.

If you never finished 2, do you get reaper courage?

[lex0r11]

Hey guys, long time no see.
Just checking the new thread, love what you've done with the place.


I'll be back once I have anything useful to say or my Photobucket account is unlocked again.

*wave*

[UrgentArchengel]

Rosewind wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

I find it interesting that destroying the collector base gives you reaper heart (you listened to your heart). And saving it gives you reaper brain (you listened to your head). I know its not a perfect comparison, but interesting nontheless.

Seems like symbolism to me, not IT symbolism but still symbolism.....

Symbolism is your friend Ladies and Gentlemen.

[Rosewind]

lex0r11 wrote...

Hey guys, long time no see.
Just checking the new thread, love what you've done with the place.


I'll be back once I have anything useful to say or my Photobucket account is unlocked again.

*wave*

Nooooo Lex0r come back i miss you

[gunslinger_ruiz]

I'm still hung up on the possibility that Bioware might have intentionally put in "bugs" or "inconsistencies" into the entire end sequence as some sort of clues to a bigger picture. How many "bugs" have we found so far? If anything all of them put together at least translates as "Something is wrong" and I know, Indoctrination Theory, but I can't help but think there's something else we're missing, something that will make the message clearer.

Look how long it took us to find the Carnifex/Predator swap, what else could there be we haven't thought to check.

[Rifneno]

Salient Archer wrote...

And I just assumed magic kept my F-111C Pig in the air.

"My"? You own a fighter? Remind me not to ****** you off.

Rosewind wrote...

pirate1802 wrote...

I find it interesting that destroying the collector base gives you reaper heart (you listened to your heart). And saving it gives you reaper brain (you listened to your head). I know its not a perfect comparison, but interesting nontheless.

Seems like symbolism to me, not IT symbolism but still symbolism.....

Actually I was thinking about this yesterday. In retrospect, it seemed too much symbolism. As in, so much that it's hard to take the literal meaning seriously. If Shepard destroys the base, they managed to save the "heart"? Even ignoring the battle damage it took, look at the enormous explosion from that base. The Proto-Reaper was right at ground zero of that. Reapers can take a lot of damage, but that? More importantly, if you DON'T do that huge explosion, then you lose the heart but the brain survives instead? That doesn't make sense. So I thought about it some more, and I found myself wondering...

Is it possible that Shepard never woke up from the third dream? Nothing is as surreal as after he gets hit by Harbinger's beam, but there are some parts of Cronos Station and London that seemed "off". In both of those places, there's what looks like passageways that just stop. Here, let's me show you.



It doesn't go anywhere, it's just a short dead end with no light. Only places I can recall seeing those are Cronos Station and London. If those areas are also indoctrinated "dreams", then I'm guessing it's a hint that you're in a computer (Reaper) simulated world and the dead ends are what you find when you wander off the path you're supposed to be on. Common trope for virtual reality storylines, I believe. There's also this:



It's a little dark in that pic, but that's a pretty significant hole blasted into Cronos Station, presumably from Hackett's fleet. You'll notice there are no mass effect fields (yes, they are visible) to keep the oxygen in. The whole place is an exposed vaccuum. It's also right after Shepard tells Hackett it's okay to fire the good stuff because he's deep inside the station already. That was like 30 foot away. Either Bioware is Lazy™, or it may be a hint. I think I'll keep digging into the "third dream never ended" theory when I'm not feeling so lazy myself.

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Symbolism is your friend Ladies and Gentlemen.

.... I'm gonna end up out of bandwidth like Lexor at this rate.

[RavenEyry]

I find it unlikely, but you could be on to something. Before chronos station is where you get put after the credits.

[Dantexr3]

Interesting. Now the difficult part is to differentiate it from Indoctrination clues or just lazy map dessign. But I always though that Cerberus Chronos Station is exactly like the station where Shepard wakes up in ME2. Maybe Shepard is reconstructing the place with his/her memories?

Modifié par Dantexr3, 19 mai 2012 - 11:28 .