55528 réponses à ce sujet

[IronSabbath88]

The endings were meh for me... and are still meh to be honest. Synthesis and Control still bother me greatly because it's the only way to get everyone to survive. Listen, it's not the fact that my Shepard died. I can live with that, what really gets me is that I've spent a trilogy fighting guys like Saren, The Illusive Man and Harbinger and all of a sudden they were right all along?!

Bah.. it's got to the point where I'm done caring. I will continue to play the trilogy but that's enough for me. Not to say I won't buy another ME game but it definitely won't be a pre order.

[SubAstris]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

Trolls, if you want to talk about how IT has been "debunked", I think there's a thread out there that's already discussing that. But this thread is for people who support IT, and since you obviously don't and aren't going to talk reasonably about it, please leave.

For all intents and purposes, it has been "debunked". A face-value interpretation of the ending is much more consistent with the endings than IT, and the EC just strengthens that

You dont know what IT is do you? 

Bounty, I have watched countless documentaries, read countless fora, I know what it is, and also know that what you are saying hasn't come to fruition. Commiserations, at least you had a good go. Now time to move on

[Candidate 88766]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Look - I'm 100% with you on this. If IT was the "big suprise" - then I really don't see a point of waiting to announce it any longer - seeing how split the community is over this (a very unfortunate thing btw - because I think it's not only a split between opinions - but a sort of "personal" split as well - that the both sides seem to hate eachother now....it never used to be like this).

But I'm still optimistic about the scene in which shepard lives - and (well come to think about it) - almost all the other interpretations that IT provides - because they weren't debunked.

It basically comes down to this:

The basic premise of the endings, or parts of the endings, being indoctrination-induced hallucinations is still as plausible as it was. I never found it very plausible, although I did find it interesting and i can understand why others believed it.

The idea that a 'real' ending DLC is on the way is well and truly dead now though. This was their chance to do it, and given that the EC only strengthens the idea of taking the endings at face value they didn't take that chance.



In essence, non-believers got endings and closure in the game, while IT supporters have the ending left up to their imaginations. Did Shepard break free/ Did he go on to defeat the Reapers?

[llbountyhunter]

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

Trolls, if you want to talk about how IT has been "debunked", I think there's a thread out there that's already discussing that. But this thread is for people who support IT, and since you obviously don't and aren't going to talk reasonably about it, please leave.

For all intents and purposes, it has been "debunked". A face-value interpretation of the ending is much more consistent with the endings than IT, and the EC just strengthens that

You dont know what IT is do you? 

Bounty, I have watched countless documentaries, read countless fora, I know what it is, and also know that what you are saying hasn't come to fruition. Commiserations, at least you had a good go. Now time to move on

And you somehow missed the part where bioware sad they were leaving te ending unclear?

[SubAstris]

kleindropper wrote...

Well after watching the "Control" ending I'm more convinced of IT than ever. Shepard is "using" the power of the Reapers to exert control over the galaxy? No doubt Shepard will eventually agree with the Reapers that all advanced organics are a threat and destroy them.

I doubt you saw the ending in that case. You can see the Reapers, under Shepard's command, rebuilding the galactic community. There, unless that was also all a dream, then there is very little possibility that he was hallucinating/being indoctrinated when making his final decision, simply because the effects of his actions after using the Crucible are shown in detail

[Lokanaiya]

@Subastris
It's time to move on? Well then, I've heard that the best way to lead is by example, so....

[llbountyhunter]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Look - I'm 100% with you on this. If IT was the "big suprise" - then I really don't see a point of waiting to announce it any longer - seeing how split the community is over this (a very unfortunate thing btw - because I think it's not only a split between opinions - but a sort of "personal" split as well - that the both sides seem to hate eachother now....it never used to be like this).

But I'm still optimistic about the scene in which shepard lives - and (well come to think about it) - almost all the other interpretations that IT provides - because they weren't debunked.

It basically comes down to this:

The basic premise of the endings, or parts of the endings, being indoctrination-induced hallucinations is still as plausible as it was. I never found it very plausible, although I did find it interesting and i can understand why others believed it.

The idea that a 'real' ending DLC is on the way is well and truly dead now though. This was their chance to do it, and given that the EC only strengthens the idea of taking the endings at face value they didn't take that chance.



In essence, non-believers got endings and closure in the game, while IT supporters have the ending left up to their imaginations. Did Shepard break free/ Did he go on to defeat the Reapers?

Another person who doesnt get IT....

Yes IT can be used to defeat the reapers (for the last time explained in my thread..)


So in fact ITers get more closure...

[SubAstris]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

Trolls, if you want to talk about how IT has been "debunked", I think there's a thread out there that's already discussing that. But this thread is for people who support IT, and since you obviously don't and aren't going to talk reasonably about it, please leave.

For all intents and purposes, it has been "debunked". A face-value interpretation of the ending is much more consistent with the endings than IT, and the EC just strengthens that

You dont know what IT is do you? 

Bounty, I have watched countless documentaries, read countless fora, I know what it is, and also know that what you are saying hasn't come to fruition. Commiserations, at least you had a good go. Now time to move on

And you somehow missed the part where bioware sad they were leaving te ending unclear?

It depends how you mean "unclear". If you mean there was literally going to be a message in-game saying, "IT is wrong", that would have been very unlikely. But having looked at the endings and what they have done with them, I doubt any rational person can really think that IT has a better explanation for the end than one taken at face value

[lex0r11]

Lokanaiya wrote...

@Subastris
It's time to move on? Well then, I've heard that the best way to lead is by example, so....

Not before he gets his gratification. All that time spend here needs to be rewarded, don't you think?

[llbountyhunter]

SubAstris wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

Well after watching the "Control" ending I'm more convinced of IT than ever. Shepard is "using" the power of the Reapers to exert control over the galaxy? No doubt Shepard will eventually agree with the Reapers that all advanced organics are a threat and destroy them.

I doubt you saw the ending in that case. You can see the Reapers, under Shepard's command, rebuilding the galactic community. There, unless that was also all a dream, then there is very little possibility that he was hallucinating/being indoctrinated when making his final decision, simply because the effects of his actions after using the Crucible are shown in detail

I guess your going to have to doubt each other because each interpertation is equally valid.

[IronSabbath88]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Look - I'm 100% with you on this. If IT was the "big suprise" - then I really don't see a point of waiting to announce it any longer - seeing how split the community is over this (a very unfortunate thing btw - because I think it's not only a split between opinions - but a sort of "personal" split as well - that the both sides seem to hate eachother now....it never used to be like this).

But I'm still optimistic about the scene in which shepard lives - and (well come to think about it) - almost all the other interpretations that IT provides - because they weren't debunked.

It basically comes down to this:

The basic premise of the endings, or parts of the endings, being indoctrination-induced hallucinations is still as plausible as it was. I never found it very plausible, although I did find it interesting and i can understand why others believed it.

The idea that a 'real' ending DLC is on the way is well and truly dead now though. This was their chance to do it, and given that the EC only strengthens the idea of taking the endings at face value they didn't take that chance.



In essence, non-believers got endings and closure in the game, while IT supporters have the ending left up to their imaginations. Did Shepard break free/ Did he go on to defeat the Reapers?

My version of the ending has Blasto and Bubin suddenly bursting onto the scene and absolutely mauling the Reapers. It's then revealed that their chief was actually Niftu Cal who uses his Biotic God status to throw husks, cannibals and marauders around the battlefield. Blasto is heralded as the true hero and all is right with the galaxy. The End.

[SubAstris]

Lokanaiya wrote...

@Subastris
It's time to move on? Well then, I've heard that the best way to lead is by example, so....

I am discussing whether the EC gives further evidence for IT. Just because you don't agree with my opinion doesn't give you the power to banish me

[Candidate 88766]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Another person who doesnt get IT....

Yes IT can be used to defeat the reapers (for the last time explained in my thread..)


So in fact ITers get more closure...

In what possible way?

If you believe the endings are real, you literally see the Reaper threat end.

if you believe that was all hallucination, then you never see the Reapers get defeated, which is the exact opposite of closure.

If you believe that parts of the endings are hallucinations, but the scenes showing the Reapers get defeated are real, then you get exactly as much closure as non-ITers.

[llbountyhunter]

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

Trolls, if you want to talk about how IT has been "debunked", I think there's a thread out there that's already discussing that. But this thread is for people who support IT, and since you obviously don't and aren't going to talk reasonably about it, please leave.

For all intents and purposes, it has been "debunked". A face-value interpretation of the ending is much more consistent with the endings than IT, and the EC just strengthens that

You dont know what IT is do you? 

Bounty, I have watched countless documentaries, read countless fora, I know what it is, and also know that what you are saying hasn't come to fruition. Commiserations, at least you had a good go. Now time to move on

And you somehow missed the part where bioware sad they were leaving te ending unclear?

It depends how you mean "unclear". If you mean there was literally going to be a message in-game saying, "IT is wrong", that would have been very unlikely. But having looked at the endings and what they have done with them, I doubt any rational person can really think that IT has a better explanation for the end than one taken at face value

And i doubted any sane individual would think IT was debuked by those vague endings... and yet... here we are.

[L0NEWOLF25]

I love how if you shoot the kid he gets mad and decides to go pout about it. I did it just cause I was mad at all the crap that he ws trying to feed us and I didn't think it would do anything. I had to go back though the Cutscenes just to pick destroy.

Modifié par L0NEWOLF25, 26 juin 2012 - 05:42 .

[SubAstris]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

Well after watching the "Control" ending I'm more convinced of IT than ever. Shepard is "using" the power of the Reapers to exert control over the galaxy? No doubt Shepard will eventually agree with the Reapers that all advanced organics are a threat and destroy them.

I doubt you saw the ending in that case. You can see the Reapers, under Shepard's command, rebuilding the galactic community. There, unless that was also all a dream, then there is very little possibility that he was hallucinating/being indoctrinated when making his final decision, simply because the effects of his actions after using the Crucible are shown in detail

I guess your going to have to doubt each other because each interpertation is equally valid.

In your opinion. Of course, with the explanation of several things in the EC, such as how your teammates get on the Normandy, the fate of the galaxy etc are much more inline with a literal interpretation, surely you would agree?

[Candidate 88766]

IronSabbath88 wrote...
My version of the ending has Blasto and Bubin suddenly bursting onto the scene and absolutely mauling the Reapers. It's then revealed that their chief was actually Niftu Cal who uses his Biotic God status to throw husks, cannibals and marauders around the battlefield. Blasto is heralded as the true hero and all is right with the galaxy. The End.

Its funny because its a better ending than the real ones.


The EC may have covered many of the plotholes and provided more closure, but the choices are still at odds with the themes of the rest of the trilogy and aren't impacted by any meaningful degree by your previous choices.

[spotlessvoid]

I doubt Bioware took this much time to elaborate on the dream sequences. All my IT brethren, I love you dearly, but the moment has come to accept that we wrote a better ending than Bioware.

I find it highly unlikely this extended cut took almost 3 months to make. I'm starting to wonder if they delayed it intentionally to try to reduce the number of trade-ins and keep people playing MP. My copy would have been on the used shelf at Gamestop if I wasn't holding out for EC.
Sadly,I don't ever see myself replaying this series ever again

Thanks for everyones hard work on IT

[llbountyhunter]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Another person who doesnt get IT....

Yes IT can be used to defeat the reapers (for the last time explained in my thread..)


So in fact ITers get more closure...

In what possible way?

If you believe the endings are real, you literally see the Reaper threat end.

if you believe that was all hallucination, then you never see the Reapers get defeated, which is the exact opposite of closure.

If you believe that parts of the endings are hallucinations, but the scenes showing the Reapers get defeated are real, then you get exactly as much closure as non-ITers.

They choices could have real world results.... again already explained this.

So how does shepard survive for you?

[Lokanaiya]

@lex0r11
True... You have any good pictures for him? I sure don't.

[Way of Thunder]

The Indoctrination Theory is real destory is the true ending all other endings are a lie and the reason for this is simple because in both control and synthesis your have already given in an been indoctrinated so why the **** do you care what the real ending is.  plus at the end of destory u still see shepard take a breath which i believe (bloody well hope) is something that will ethier lead to more ME 3 DLC (unlikely) or ME 4

Modifié par Way of Thunder, 26 juin 2012 - 05:45 .

[llbountyhunter]

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

Well after watching the "Control" ending I'm more convinced of IT than ever. Shepard is "using" the power of the Reapers to exert control over the galaxy? No doubt Shepard will eventually agree with the Reapers that all advanced organics are a threat and destroy them.

I doubt you saw the ending in that case. You can see the Reapers, under Shepard's command, rebuilding the galactic community. There, unless that was also all a dream, then there is very little possibility that he was hallucinating/being indoctrinated when making his final decision, simply because the effects of his actions after using the Crucible are shown in detail

I guess your going to have to doubt each other because each interpertation is equally valid.

In your opinion. Of course, with the explanation of several things in the EC, such as how your teammates get on the Normandy, the fate of the galaxy etc are much more inline with a literal interpretation, surely you would agree?

And fails to explain how shepard ended up on earth after destroy... among other things

[SubAstris]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

Trolls, if you want to talk about how IT has been "debunked", I think there's a thread out there that's already discussing that. But this thread is for people who support IT, and since you obviously don't and aren't going to talk reasonably about it, please leave.

For all intents and purposes, it has been "debunked". A face-value interpretation of the ending is much more consistent with the endings than IT, and the EC just strengthens that

You dont know what IT is do you? 

Bounty, I have watched countless documentaries, read countless fora, I know what it is, and also know that what you are saying hasn't come to fruition. Commiserations, at least you had a good go. Now time to move on

And you somehow missed the part where bioware sad they were leaving te ending unclear?

It depends how you mean "unclear". If you mean there was literally going to be a message in-game saying, "IT is wrong", that would have been very unlikely. But having looked at the endings and what they have done with them, I doubt any rational person can really think that IT has a better explanation for the end than one taken at face value

And i doubted any sane individual would think IT was debuked by those vague endings... and yet... here we are.

IT can perhaps live in the "cracks" of the narrative, things that aren't fully explained, but every single detail of the EC ending can be explained without resort to IT at all in any way. Therefore, since IT has the burden of proof in this matter, it is much more likely that IT was never implemented in the first place

[Candidate 88766]

llbountyhunter wrote...

They choices could have real world results.... again already explained this.

So how does shepard survive for you?

'Real world results'? This is a fictional story. The choices made in it have no bearing on the real world.

And Shepard didn't survive in my story.

Shepard dying is not the same as there not being closure.

Edit: or did you mean how does he survive in destroy?

Its a plothole. Just because the IT is a posisble explanation for why Shepard is shown breathing doesn't mean its true. 

One of the devs said that the scene of your lI hesitating to put Shepard's name on the memorial wall and then the scene with Shepard breathing are meant to imply that they can reunite. Which also heavily implies that both scenes are real.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 26 juin 2012 - 05:47 .

[SubAstris]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

Well after watching the "Control" ending I'm more convinced of IT than ever. Shepard is "using" the power of the Reapers to exert control over the galaxy? No doubt Shepard will eventually agree with the Reapers that all advanced organics are a threat and destroy them.

I doubt you saw the ending in that case. You can see the Reapers, under Shepard's command, rebuilding the galactic community. There, unless that was also all a dream, then there is very little possibility that he was hallucinating/being indoctrinated when making his final decision, simply because the effects of his actions after using the Crucible are shown in detail

I guess your going to have to doubt each other because each interpertation is equally valid.

In your opinion. Of course, with the explanation of several things in the EC, such as how your teammates get on the Normandy, the fate of the galaxy etc are much more inline with a literal interpretation, surely you would agree?

And fails to explain how shepard ended up on earth after destroy... among other things

That might be, uh, I dunno, because HE DOESN'T