55528 réponses à ce sujet

[sydranark]

just delete this damn thread. it's embarrassing now.

[kleindropper]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

Well after watching the "Control" ending I'm more convinced of IT than ever. Shepard is "using" the power of the Reapers to exert control over the galaxy? No doubt Shepard will eventually agree with the Reapers that all advanced organics are a threat and destroy them.

I doubt you saw the ending in that case. You can see the Reapers, under Shepard's command, rebuilding the galactic community. There, unless that was also all a dream, then there is very little possibility that he was hallucinating/being indoctrinated when making his final decision, simply because the effects of his actions after using the Crucible are shown in detail

I guess your going to have to doubt each other because each interpertation is equally valid.

I'm mainly going by what Shepard says in regard to her apparent new understanding of the universe and immortality.   She has apparently found "salvation through her destruction".  Where have I heard that before?

[llbountyhunter]

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

Trolls, if you want to talk about how IT has been "debunked", I think there's a thread out there that's already discussing that. But this thread is for people who support IT, and since you obviously don't and aren't going to talk reasonably about it, please leave.

For all intents and purposes, it has been "debunked". A face-value interpretation of the ending is much more consistent with the endings than IT, and the EC just strengthens that

You dont know what IT is do you? 

Bounty, I have watched countless documentaries, read countless fora, I know what it is, and also know that what you are saying hasn't come to fruition. Commiserations, at least you had a good go. Now time to move on

And you somehow missed the part where bioware sad they were leaving te ending unclear?

It depends how you mean "unclear". If you mean there was literally going to be a message in-game saying, "IT is wrong", that would have been very unlikely. But having looked at the endings and what they have done with them, I doubt any rational person can really think that IT has a better explanation for the end than one taken at face value

And i doubted any sane individual would think IT was debuked by those vague endings... and yet... here we are.

IT can perhaps live in the "cracks" of the narrative, things that aren't fully explained, but every single detail of the EC ending can be explained without resort to IT at all in any way. Therefore, since IT has the burden of proof in this matter, it is much more likely that IT was never implemented in the first place

And every detail in EC can be explained with IT. Makes MORE sense with IT.... imo


Again both of us are equally valid. No doubt thats what bioware wants.

[SubAstris]

sydranark wrote...

just delete this damn thread. it's embarrassing now.

The fact that people are still sticking to their guns, despite all evidence to the contrary, that IT is as valid an explanation of the endings as face-value and was BW's original plan?

[Capeo]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

Well after watching the "Control" ending I'm more convinced of IT than ever. Shepard is "using" the power of the Reapers to exert control over the galaxy? No doubt Shepard will eventually agree with the Reapers that all advanced organics are a threat and destroy them.

I doubt you saw the ending in that case. You can see the Reapers, under Shepard's command, rebuilding the galactic community. There, unless that was also all a dream, then there is very little possibility that he was hallucinating/being indoctrinated when making his final decision, simply because the effects of his actions after using the Crucible are shown in detail

I guess your going to have to doubt each other because each interpertation is equally valid.

Oh please.  IT is not an "interpretation" and its most certainly not valid.  The endings are meant to be taken at face value.  They are "definitive" in BW's own words.  There is absolutely nothing in them that supports IT.  The rest of the Internet has already admitted IT isn't true.  Nothing shown fits IT.  You true believers really, really need to face up to the same.

[lex0r11]

sydranark wrote...

just delete this damn thread. it's embarrassing now.

Who are you to demand that?

People coming in here with unsupported reasoning and oneliners are embarrassing.

[IronSabbath88]

For the record, I wanted IT to be true, I really did, but it's time to put my time towards other things. It's not happening, and for me the ending wasn't improved any from it's "meh" status.

[llbountyhunter]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

They choices could have real world results.... again already explained this.

So how does shepard survive for you?

'Real world results'? This is a fictional story. The choices made in it have no bearing on the real world.

And Shepard didn't survive in my story.

Shepard dying is not the same as there not being closure.

Edit: or did you mean how does he survive in destroy?

Its a plothole. Just because the IT is a posisble explanation for why Shepard is shown breathing doesn't mean its true. 

One of the devs said that the scene of your lI hesitating to put Shepard's name on the memorial wall and then the scene with Shepard breathing are meant to imply that they can reunite. Which also heavily implies that both scenes are real.

I meant real as in outsideof shepards mind..... obviously.


Again, it can go either way.

[SubAstris]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

Trolls, if you want to talk about how IT has been "debunked", I think there's a thread out there that's already discussing that. But this thread is for people who support IT, and since you obviously don't and aren't going to talk reasonably about it, please leave.

For all intents and purposes, it has been "debunked". A face-value interpretation of the ending is much more consistent with the endings than IT, and the EC just strengthens that

You dont know what IT is do you? 

Bounty, I have watched countless documentaries, read countless fora, I know what it is, and also know that what you are saying hasn't come to fruition. Commiserations, at least you had a good go. Now time to move on

And you somehow missed the part where bioware sad they were leaving te ending unclear?

It depends how you mean "unclear". If you mean there was literally going to be a message in-game saying, "IT is wrong", that would have been very unlikely. But having looked at the endings and what they have done with them, I doubt any rational person can really think that IT has a better explanation for the end than one taken at face value

And i doubted any sane individual would think IT was debuked by those vague endings... and yet... here we are.

IT can perhaps live in the "cracks" of the narrative, things that aren't fully explained, but every single detail of the EC ending can be explained without resort to IT at all in any way. Therefore, since IT has the burden of proof in this matter, it is much more likely that IT was never implemented in the first place

And every detail in EC can be explained with IT. Makes MORE sense with IT.... imo


Again both of us are equally valid. No doubt thats what bioware wants.

I don't see how you could possibly say that. If IT is true, the plot and focus of ME changes; no sane writer would have such diverging explanations. One must have more evidence than the other. Believe, but as you can see, many ITers have abandoned the faith

[llbountyhunter]

SubAstris wrote...

sydranark wrote...

just delete this damn thread. it's embarrassing now.

The fact that people are still sticking to their guns, despite all evidence to the contrary, that IT is as valid an explanation of the endings as face-value and was BW's original plan?

I think the opposite is embarissing... see how easy that is?

[redknight38]

See what bad community management hath wrought. Bioware tried to be vague and non-committal with this whole IT thing in order to please everybody or not ****** off anybody. It probably morphed into something larger than they expected. Whether it's still true or not, it's becoming apparent that people are primarily (and possibly subconsciously) going on about it in order to not be embarrassed on a public forum. It has very little to do with the game now.

[SubAstris]

kleindropper wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

kleindropper wrote...

Well after watching the "Control" ending I'm more convinced of IT than ever. Shepard is "using" the power of the Reapers to exert control over the galaxy? No doubt Shepard will eventually agree with the Reapers that all advanced organics are a threat and destroy them.

I doubt you saw the ending in that case. You can see the Reapers, under Shepard's command, rebuilding the galactic community. There, unless that was also all a dream, then there is very little possibility that he was hallucinating/being indoctrinated when making his final decision, simply because the effects of his actions after using the Crucible are shown in detail

I guess your going to have to doubt each other because each interpertation is equally valid.

I'm mainly going by what Shepard says in regard to her apparent new understanding of the universe and immortality.   She has apparently found "salvation through her destruction".  Where have I heard that before?

But in s/he has this time, simply because you can see her actions. Or has BW for the best part of 3 months just created a load more dreams for us to look at?

[monrapias]

Capeo wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

I'm exhausted talking about IT. been doing all day now.

To sum it up: it's not debunked.

IT is very, very debunked.  You got your refusal ending and it results in the Reapers winning.  That's as close to IT as you're ever going to get.  

Now we want to know what happend to shepard in the destroy ending, seeing as he didn't die.

[Candidate 88766]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

They choices could have real world results.... again already explained this.

So how does shepard survive for you?

'Real world results'? This is a fictional story. The choices made in it have no bearing on the real world.

And Shepard didn't survive in my story.

Shepard dying is not the same as there not being closure.

Edit: or did you mean how does he survive in destroy?

Its a plothole. Just because the IT is a posisble explanation for why Shepard is shown breathing doesn't mean its true. 

One of the devs said that the scene of your lI hesitating to put Shepard's name on the memorial wall and then the scene with Shepard breathing are meant to imply that they can reunite. Which also heavily implies that both scenes are real.

I meant real as in outsideof shepards mind..... obviously.


Again, it can go either way.

Lets put it this way:

The real endings in the game: real consequences there and then.

The IT ending: could have consqeuences, but we literally have no idea what they are as they're never shown.

Which one really has the most closure?

[llbountyhunter]

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

Trolls, if you want to talk about how IT has been "debunked", I think there's a thread out there that's already discussing that. But this thread is for people who support IT, and since you obviously don't and aren't going to talk reasonably about it, please leave.

For all intents and purposes, it has been "debunked". A face-value interpretation of the ending is much more consistent with the endings than IT, and the EC just strengthens that

You dont know what IT is do you? 

Bounty, I have watched countless documentaries, read countless fora, I know what it is, and also know that what you are saying hasn't come to fruition. Commiserations, at least you had a good go. Now time to move on

And you somehow missed the part where bioware sad they were leaving te ending unclear?

It depends how you mean "unclear". If you mean there was literally going to be a message in-game saying, "IT is wrong", that would have been very unlikely. But having looked at the endings and what they have done with them, I doubt any rational person can really think that IT has a better explanation for the end than one taken at face value

And i doubted any sane individual would think IT was debuked by those vague endings... and yet... here we are.

IT can perhaps live in the "cracks" of the narrative, things that aren't fully explained, but every single detail of the EC ending can be explained without resort to IT at all in any way. Therefore, since IT has the burden of proof in this matter, it is much more likely that IT was never implemented in the first place

And every detail in EC can be explained with IT. Makes MORE sense with IT.... imo


Again both of us are equally valid. No doubt thats what bioware wants.

I don't see how you could possibly say that. If IT is true, the plot and focus of ME changes; no sane writer would have such diverging explanations. One must have more evidence than the other. Believe, but as you can see, many ITers have abandoned the faith

Its a theory and yes, it can be wrong. But bioware themselfs said  its not. Doesnt matter if it was planned or not.

[Candidate 88766]

SubAstris wrote...

Or has BW for the best part of 3 months just created a load more dreams for us to look at?

This.

If the endings in the game weren't actually real, then why did they not only spend severla months expanding them but also failed to create the 'real' endings?

The obvious conclusion is that these are the real endings, which goes against most of the various ITs.

I think there's one IT where the only hallucination is the conversation with the Catalyst, and everything else is real, but thats basically the same as the real endings.

[SubAstris]

[quote]llbountyhunter wrote...

[quote]SubAstris wrote...

[quote]llbountyhunter wrote...

[quote]SubAstris wrote...

[quote]llbountyhunter wrote...

[quote]SubAstris wrote...

[quote]llbountyhunter wrote...

[quote]SubAstris wrote...

[quote]llbountyhunter wrote...

[quote]SubAstris wrote...

[quote]Lokanaiya wrote...

Trolls, if you want to talk about how IT has been "debunked", I think there's a thread out there that's already discussing that. But this thread is for people who support IT, and since you obviously don't and aren't going to talk reasonably about it, please leave.[/quote]

For all intents and purposes, it has been "debunked". A face-value interpretation of the ending is much more consistent with the endings than IT, and the EC just strengthens that

[/quote]

You dont know what IT is do you? 

[/quote]

Bounty, I have watched countless documentaries, read countless fora, I know what it is, and also know that what you are saying hasn't come to fruition. Commiserations, at least you had a good go. Now time to move on

[/quote]

And you somehow missed the part where bioware sad they were leaving te ending unclear?

[/quote]

It depends how you mean "unclear". If you mean there was literally going to be a message in-game saying, "IT is wrong", that would have been very unlikely. But having looked at the endings and what they have done with them, I doubt any rational person can really think that IT has a better explanation for the end than one taken at face value

[/quote]

And i doubted any sane individual would think IT was debuked by those vague endings... and yet... here we are.

[/quote]

IT can perhaps live in the "cracks" of the narrative, things that aren't fully explained, but every single detail of the EC ending can be explained without resort to IT at all in any way. Therefore, since IT has the burden of proof in this matter, it is much more likely that IT was never implemented in the first place

[/quote]
And every detail in EC can be explained with IT. Makes MORE sense with IT.... imo


Again both of us are equally valid. No doubt thats what bioware wants.

[/quote]

I don't see how you could possibly say that. If IT is true, the plot and focus of ME changes; no sane writer would have such diverging explanations. One must have more evidence than the other. Believe, but as you can see, many ITers have abandoned the faith

[/quote]


Its a theory and yes, it can be wrong. But bioware themselfs said  its not. Doesnt matter if it was planned or not.

[/quote]

Let's make this clear. BW haven't said it's not wrong, but they haven't said anything about its veracity.

[llbountyhunter]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

They choices could have real world results.... again already explained this.

So how does shepard survive for you?

'Real world results'? This is a fictional story. The choices made in it have no bearing on the real world.

And Shepard didn't survive in my story.

Shepard dying is not the same as there not being closure.

Edit: or did you mean how does he survive in destroy?

Its a plothole. Just because the IT is a posisble explanation for why Shepard is shown breathing doesn't mean its true. 

One of the devs said that the scene of your lI hesitating to put Shepard's name on the memorial wall and then the scene with Shepard breathing are meant to imply that they can reunite. Which also heavily implies that both scenes are real.

I meant real as in outsideof shepards mind..... obviously.


Again, it can go either way.

Lets put it this way:

The real endings in the game: real consequences there and then.

The IT ending: could have consqeuences, but we literally have no idea what they are as they're never shown.

Which one really has the most closure?

Neither becaus you stil have destroy. 

[Lokanaiya]

@Subastris
Since IT is so obviously wrong, perhaps you could explain the infrasound near Major Coates and in the dreams, how Starbrat has Harbinger's voice in the Refusal ending, and how Shepard survives Harbinger's beam, which could demolish MAKOs in one hit? Please, enlighten us poor, delusional folk.

[llbountyhunter]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Or has BW for the best part of 3 months just created a load more dreams for us to look at?

This.

If the endings in the game weren't actually real, then why did they not only spend severla months expanding them but also failed to create the 'real' endings?

The obvious conclusion is that these are the real endings, which goes against most of the various ITs.

I think there's one IT where the only hallucination is the conversation with the Catalyst, and everything else is real, but thats basically the same as the real endings.

They explained this! they said they purposely left it vauge!

How could you onlyforget stuff that helps you debunk IT?

[Candidate 88766]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Or has BW for the best part of 3 months just created a load more dreams for us to look at?

This.

If the endings in the game weren't actually real, then why did they not only spend severla months expanding them but also failed to create the 'real' endings?

The obvious conclusion is that these are the real endings, which goes against most of the various ITs.

I think there's one IT where the only hallucination is the conversation with the Catalyst, and everything else is real, but thats basically the same as the real endings.

They explained this! they said they purposely left it vauge!

How could you onlyforget stuff that helps you debunk IT?

I'm not debunking the IT. They've sepcifically said they won't confirm or deny it.

I'm debunking the idea that there is still a 'real ending' DLC on the way.

[v0rt3x22]

monrapias wrote...

Capeo wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

I'm exhausted talking about IT. been doing all day now.

To sum it up: it's not debunked.

IT is very, very debunked.  You got your refusal ending and it results in the Reapers winning.  That's as close to IT as you're ever going to get.  

Now we want to know what happend to shepard in the destroy ending, seeing as he didn't die.

hahaha - perfect timing because I just rewatched the destroy ending.

Did you notice how there's ambience now in the background with an echo effect?
That does seem to be back on earth - and they added the "grasp for air" audio.

[llbountyhunter]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Or has BW for the best part of 3 months just created a load more dreams for us to look at?

This.

If the endings in the game weren't actually real, then why did they not only spend severla months expanding them but also failed to create the 'real' endings?

The obvious conclusion is that these are the real endings, which goes against most of the various ITs.

I think there's one IT where the only hallucination is the conversation with the Catalyst, and everything else is real, but thats basically the same as the real endings.

They explained this! they said they purposely left it vauge!

How could you onlyforget stuff that helps you debunk IT?

I'm not debunking the IT. They've sepcifically said they won't confirm or deny it.

I'm debunking the idea that there is still a 'real ending' DLC on the way.

Gotcha, i dont think thatll happen either, they just wnt to keep everyone guessing.

[Lokanaiya]

Again:
Trolls, if you want to talk about how IT has been "debunked", I think there's a thread out there that's already discussing that. But this thread is for people who support IT, and since you obviously don't and aren't going to talk reasonably about it, please leave.

[v0rt3x22]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

I'm debunking the idea that there is still a 'real ending' DLC on the way.

real ending DLC - maybe not.
But ME4.

but yea...we've been over that.