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3 weeksv0rt3x22 wrote...
estebanus wrote...
Also, once I'm back from the USA, I'll be ready to discuss with you again! I found a very interesting tidbit in the final dream. Yes, this first came after the EC.
Care to share now? lol....how long you gonna be in the US?
estebanus wrote...
3 weeksv0rt3x22 wrote...
estebanus wrote...
Also, once I'm back from the USA, I'll be ready to discuss with you again! I found a very interesting tidbit in the final dream. Yes, this first came after the EC.
Care to share now? lol....how long you gonna be in the US?
Vet223 wrote...
I wouldn't say nothing is added to IT, not at all. Overall it's a net gain for IT.
1) We learn the citadel doesn't fall to earth if it does in fact actually blow up, it stays out in space. Yet Shepard taking that breath, in a scene with wind... it takes even more mental gymnastics to make a claim that he/she actually left London in the first place.
2) The most obvious indoctrinated ending, control, has ShepaReaper saying some very un-shepard-like things now. Downright sinister, and completely unlike any Shepard character, renegade or not. We're really supposed to believe that's the sound of Shepard influencing them and not the other way around? About as much positive spin as a Saren rant about ascension.
3) Right after beaming up to the citadel, I'm fairly sure the strange little robotic twitch Shepard makes when Anderson hails him is new. Hard to believe that kind of audio/visual cue, which has zero relevance to a face-value ending (just like maybe half an hour of dream sequences, conversations, symbolism, etc), is just accident or happenstance.
4) I might be crazy but it seems like the blue eyes and 3 whitish dots are easier to see now, and displayed longer and/or more frequently, for the blue and green endings. And of course that existing at all, Shepard having Saren/TIM eyes (not just "implanted" eyes per far-red renegade Shepards) is another thing that, to chalk up to accident or happenstance, seems naive to me.
5) I'm fairly sure they added dialogue of the Starchild claiming to BE, not merely control, the collective consciousness of all the reapers. (He does speak of them more separately as well, but seperate like hardware and software; he [software] gives the creator's corporeal creations [hardware] purpose.) Again, correct me if that's not new... but either way, why the hell are the face-value proponents simply accepting everything the murderous and manipulative reapers say as true? We know at the very least the implication that Shepard will not survive because his synthetic implants will be destroyed turns out not to be true, so following rational thoughts include "hmm, I bet I didn't really wipe out the geth either" and "I wasn't really being given a true choice there, and certainly not a fairly informed one; manipulation, I say!"
6) To back up number 5, the new "reject" ending includes the reaper we've been talking to going back to its deep and dark voice and storming away from you, not really concerned about its favorite so-called solutions anymore. There is no innocent or well-meaning child, there is only the reapers, and they are lying to you. The forked platform is your -purely psychological- final boss battle.
v0rt3x22 wrote...
It's soooo quiet....BSN, Twitter (I mean the developers).....creepy.
estebanus wrote...
All right, I'll give you a hint: look at Shepard's facial expressions.
estebanus wrote...
All right, I'll give you a hint: look at Shepard's facial expressions.
v0rt3x22 wrote...
estebanus wrote...
All right, I'll give you a hint: look at Shepard's facial expressions.
Where exactly?
I mean....are we talking about the "IT" dream? or the "actual" dreams?
Nope, and I don't have enough time to post any. Someone else will have to do it, I guess.Dancing-Krogan wrote...
estebanus wrote...
All right, I'll give you a hint: look at Shepard's facial expressions.
Any pics?
estebanus wrote...
All right, I'll give you a hint: look at Shepard's facial expressions.
Modifié par v0rt3x22, 26 juin 2012 - 11:24 .
deltacypresss wrote...
after re-picking destroy, then seeing all the other endings on you tube. one thing comes to mind.
The endings, all of them, reinforce the Reaper's point of view.
Vet223 wrote...
I wouldn't say nothing is added to IT, not at all. Overall it's a net gain for IT.
1) We learn the citadel doesn't fall to earth if it does in fact actually blow up, it stays out in space. Yet Shepard taking that breath, in a scene with wind... it takes even more mental gymnastics to make a claim that he/she actually left London in the first place.
2) The most obvious indoctrinated ending, control, has ShepaReaper saying some very un-shepard-like things now. Downright sinister, and completely unlike any Shepard character, renegade or not. We're really supposed to believe that's the sound of Shepard influencing them and not the other way around? About as much positive spin as a Saren rant about ascension.
3) Right after beaming up to the citadel, I'm fairly sure the strange little robotic twitch Shepard makes when Anderson hails him is new. Hard to believe that kind of audio/visual cue, which has zero relevance to a face-value ending (just like maybe half an hour of dream sequences, conversations, symbolism, etc), is just accident or happenstance.
4) I might be crazy but it seems like the blue eyes and 3 whitish dots are easier to see now, and displayed longer and/or more frequently, for the blue and green endings. And of course that existing at all, Shepard having Saren/TIM eyes (not just "implanted" eyes per far-red renegade Shepards) is another thing that, to chalk up to accident or happenstance, seems naive to me.
5) I'm fairly sure they added dialogue of the Starchild claiming to BE, not merely control, the collective consciousness of all the reapers. (He does speak of them more separately as well, but seperate like hardware and software; he [software] gives the creator's corporeal creations [hardware] purpose.) Again, correct me if that's not new... but either way, why the hell are the face-value proponents simply accepting everything the murderous and manipulative reapers say as true? We know at the very least the implication that Shepard will not survive because his synthetic implants will be destroyed turns out not to be true, so following rational thoughts include "hmm, I bet I didn't really wipe out the geth either" and "I wasn't really being given a true choice there, and certainly not a fairly informed one; manipulation, I say!"
6) To back up number 5, the new "reject" ending includes the reaper we've been talking to going back to its deep and dark voice and storming away from you, not really concerned about its favorite so-called solutions anymore. There is no innocent or well-meaning child, there is only the reapers, and they are lying to you. The forked platform is your -purely psychological- final boss battle.
HellishFiend wrote...
EpyonX3 wrote...
HellishFiend wrote...
So you find it reasonable that Harbinger allowed Shepard and the Normandy to survive the run to the beam even though, given how fast he can shoot, he had about 50 opportunities to vaporize the lot of them?
It was attemtp to shoot the Normady, that has barriers and can take a hit from the beam, and let even one person up the beam or continue crushing the forces at the beam and get the normandy later.
nope.avi
Not buying it. Normandy was a floating bullseye for nearly a minute. There is no way Harbinger would have failed to destroy it if it was his intention to do so.
estebanus wrote...
Nope, and I don't have enough time to post any. Someone else will have to do it, I guess.Dancing-Krogan wrote...
estebanus wrote...
All right, I'll give you a hint: look at Shepard's facial expressions.
Any pics?
Dancing-Krogan wrote...
estebanus wrote...
Nope, and I don't have enough time to post any. Someone else will have to do it, I guess.Dancing-Krogan wrote...
estebanus wrote...
All right, I'll give you a hint: look at Shepard's facial expressions.
Any pics?
Well I guess the hunt is on!
Yep, and I think that ending is the only one which makes sense although I chose destroy but I didnt like it... I feel even a little indoctrinated (because of EDI and geths are dead, and the catalyst wanted that more or less), I do not know how to put this but it is not what I was expecting (in fact, nothing was...). I feel that child was lying me in all the options except the reject.byne wrote...
v0rt3x22 wrote...
Vet223 wrote...
2) The most obvious indoctrinated ending, control, has ShepaReaper saying some very un-shepard-like things now. Downright sinister, and completely unlike any Shepard character, renegade or not. We're really supposed to believe that's the sound of Shepard influencing them and not the other way around? About as much positive spin as a Saren rant about ascension.
Hmm actually I found "Reject" to be the obvious one.
The more I think about it the more I think reject is the most obvious indoctrination ending. It is the only one where Shepard completely refuses to stop the Reapers.
byne wrote...
v0rt3x22 wrote...
Hmm people are complaining that the "Run towards beam" scene is now worst - in that you stop in order to save your crew and then keep running.
I kind of tend to agree..
Especially since the Normandy was fighting in orbit with Sword fleet, yet magically appears the instant you call for evac.
They replaced teleporting squadmates with teleporting starships.
Lat2oo5 wrote...
Yep, and I think that ending is the only one which makes sense although I chose destroy but I didnt like it... I feel even a little indoctrinated (because of EDI and geths are dead, and the catalyst wanted that more or less), I do not know how to put this but it is not what I was expecting (in fact, nothing was...). I feel that child was lying me in all the options except the reject.byne wrote...
v0rt3x22 wrote...
Vet223 wrote...
2) The most obvious indoctrinated ending, control, has ShepaReaper saying some very un-shepard-like things now. Downright sinister, and completely unlike any Shepard character, renegade or not. We're really supposed to believe that's the sound of Shepard influencing them and not the other way around? About as much positive spin as a Saren rant about ascension.
Hmm actually I found "Reject" to be the obvious one.
The more I think about it the more I think reject is the most obvious indoctrination ending. It is the only one where Shepard completely refuses to stop the Reapers.
Abram730 wrote...
byne wrote...
v0rt3x22 wrote...
Hmm people are complaining that the "Run towards beam" scene is now worst - in that you stop in order to save your crew and then keep running.
I kind of tend to agree..
Especially since the Normandy was fighting in orbit with Sword fleet, yet magically appears the instant you call for evac.
They replaced teleporting squadmates with teleporting starships.
And now they have warp drive also.
Modifié par keith123456789, 26 juin 2012 - 11:37 .
Dancing-Krogan wrote...
deltacypresss wrote...
after re-picking destroy, then seeing all the other endings on you tube. one thing comes to mind.
The endings, all of them, reinforce the Reaper's point of view.
Control was so very wrong. Super Shep becoming supreme mega overlord of the galaxy? I don't think he would have ever wanted that...
Modifié par lex0r11, 26 juin 2012 - 11:39 .
dreamgazer wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
dreamgazer wrote...
SubAstris wrote...
Shepard's mother, whose existence we can infer, doesn't alter the entire focus and events of the ME Trilogy tbf
You can also infer indoctrination symptoms, the dreams being the easiest one to acknowledge.
That's the beauty of interpretation: it can coexist with a literal outlook, which is entirely possible with the material present in this thread and the previous one.
It is more logical to assume that a son has a mother than what we have here, hidden/ invisible indoctrination symptoms being present from potentially indoctrinating objects . The latter's presence is key to the narrative and needs to be established very firmly that it exists, otherwise it is nothing other than bad writing.
Not really. Indoctrination could still be influencing Shepard's decision-making process in the chamber, or you can look at the chamber literally. Either way, Shepard is forced to break his/her previous ideals to make the options work, and the presence of the dreams adds an element of filtered interpretation to that.
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