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[NUM13ER]

byne wrote...
I think the worst part is where the husk gets synthesized, and stops attacking, and gets this odd look on its face.

Its like synthesis has given it the cognitive ability to realize the monstrosity it has become.

Yeah, I did think for a moment did that husk just become self aware? Or worse remember what it used to be?! Not a pleasant thought.

[legaldinho]

byne wrote...

legaldinho wrote...

God, just watched the synthesis ending. It's morally repugnant.

I think the worst part is where the husk gets synthesized, and stops attacking, and gets this odd look on its face.

Its like synthesis has given it the cognitive ability to realize the monstrosity it has become.

The game just hasn't done enough to get us to accept the reapers "rebuilding" in control, or shep's words at the end; nor the forcing of this monstrous existence on the entire spectrum of life in synthesis. Hints and dialogue are something, but feel and steer is another. We like edi because she is edi. We liked legion because he was legion. They were different though, and we proved we could live with them, not that we should become them. Okay the retcon synth ending tries to back away from the whole "share dna" thing... but those poor monstrous green eyed baby krogan! Man, that's not saving anything, or building again. That's an abomination. Grrr.

My favourite ending is still destroy. But only because it is an ending. Shooting reaperbieber in the face is satisfying, but there is nothing thereafter.

[UrgedDuke]

lex0r11 wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

The synth ending really creeps me out.

Sorry, really.

[D.Sharrah]

So the EC...several things, not sure where to start...

1. Despite still disagreeing with the overall messages of Control and Synthesis...I did think that they were well done. Done well enough in fact to justify them for the fans of the choices - but I (and I expect many here in this thread) still felt that Destroy was the best choice.

2. What bothered me most about control was the absolute sudden shift of idealism in Reaper Shep (and we aren't supposed to believe that the Reaper's have any influence there...yeah right).

3. What bothered me most about synthesis, was the statements in the explanation - ..."it has failed because it had been forced..." - and in what way is Shep's choice not forcing the decision on the rest of the galaxy? If, again as the Catalyst says, it will happen naturally (b/c organics (and IMHO synthetics too otherwise it wouldn't work) are ready for it), than why not let it happen naturally.

4. Overall...
a. EC did not provide any closure on the IT (IMHO).
b. What happened to the ability to "reuinte" with crew and LI?
c. If it answered any questions, it just created new ones.

5. I think this is important to say - what we were given was well done, even if it did not answer all the questions that we had (I never expected that they would).

6. I only have characters with high EMS - so I am missing out on some of the variation - but I had hoped that the EC would move away from the A,B,C choice (and to be fair I guess they did add D (reject) - even though I have not see it yet myself), but I am a bit disappointed by that.

I feel like I could go on...but I feel like I have rambled enough elready, sigh.

[v0rt3x22]

I'm silently contemplating on this entire EC.....and Jessica's tweets about not trusting the kid....something is very very wrong here....

[Vet223]

2) We have no idea whether these great things Shepard is talking about are true or not. I think the burden of proof is on the one who says it isn't real. You might have a point if there were some scenes whose veracity were true and we saw bad things happening, but we didn't. Furthermore, you have to remember that the presence of the Catalyst changes everything; and with that, people's outlook changes (in London he says everything will be different after this is over)

This part wasn't about veracity of events (for which there is no "burden of proof" either way, we're discussing interpretation here -- it happened only if you think it happened), it was about tone and symbolism in the narrative.

"There is power in control. There is
wisdom in harnessing the strengths of your enemy."

When is any Shepard build able to talk like this?  When tricking Morinth?  Even renegade Shep is more of a libertine with their own essentially-principled way of doing things, and sooner or later is against using the means/strengths of the reapers and similarly brutal a-holes.  We just saw to it that the illusive man (or psychological manifestation) was shot to death just a few minutes ago for attempting this very thing, and there is a general consensus that he was only trying to convince us to control because he was indoctrinated (if not indoctrination itself).  Yet doing exactly what he said is a victory?  I think not.

"The man I was knew that he could only
achieve this by becoming something greater"

"Eternal, infinate, immortal... the man
I was used these words, but only now do I truly understand them"


Typical Sovereign.  Ant-like mortals cannot even begin to fathom the infinate awe that is reaper, bla bla bla.  All about the reaper-chauvanism, whereas Shepard did everything he did to retain humans (if not all sentient species) and all their faults, and held on with bared teeth to his own oft-vaunted humanity.

"... give me reason, direction, just as
he gave direction to the ones who followed him, the ones who helped
him achieve his purpose... now my purpose"

Again, ringing a bell?  Suddenly it was Shepard's destiny to be ascended, and to hell with autonomy, follow?  Harby was right all along, whee!

And what are you left with?  Sure, ShepaReaper pays lots of lip service to aiding the greater good.  So did Saren.  So did TIM.  All true believers in the series come to see their actions as good (for the "many"[reapers]?), rather than believing in evil.  The good guys in the series fight them because they know what is never okay to sacrifice for that supposed common good.

3) Video evidence?

can't seem to find one of that area of the EC, but there's one in a recent post I'll try to find

5) Yes they did. Again, not adding that much to what has been known before.

6) Are you implying it's Harbinger? If so, we don't know; it seems the Catalyst is just expressing his disapproval at what Shepard has done. But if he were just a Reaper manifestation, wouldn't you expect that there would be a similar thing said for destroy, since that is against the Reaper's will as well?

I'm implying that at the very least it's Harbinger and every other reaper talking simultaneously, and we do know as well as we can.  You just agreed with it in 5).  Destroy is break indoctrination, so the catalyst explodes almost immediately, reject is lie there a quitter and bleed to death because your nemesis told you the geth would die otherwise.  So, different results.

DISCLAIMER:  I don't think anyone can definitively rob another of an interpretation.  Like I said, if you think the geth really die, then I supposed that happened to your Shepard.  Personally I dont' think following in Saren's or TIM's footsteps (synthesis or control) are actual victories, but elaborate game over screens.  What I think is indisputable though, is that getting at least some people to subscribe to a non-face-value ending was intentional.  There's just way too much positive evidence (not god of the gaps argument) of them screwing around with these ideas.  You can believe not all blue-white-circle eyes mean the same thing, but it's silly to think Bioware bothered to include them while under the assumption that nobody would zero in on them and say it means something.

Modifié par Vet223, 27 juin 2012 - 12:43 .

[deltacypresss]

My biggest hope is that it would explain the shep alive scene. still no way to adequately explain that without IT.

Created will always rebel, and now we learn that the reapers were created by someone. hm....

think a lot of theories actually managed to worm their way into the EC.

Crucible a Reaper trap- There is actually more evidence for this to be true.

Reapers going to Reap- The theory that the Reapers are only doing this because it is all they know how to do, even though they may have forgotten their original reasons.

Being of light- this is somewhat of a joke. but hell, maybe the original creators of the citadel god child could be them

[Fingertrip]

Can someone just tell me, because I can't tube it or be bothered to replay- did the Credits have any new themes in it, or is still the same?

And I'm talking about the actual credits, with Das Malefiz , Leaving Earth and the other one? Or did they add anything new to it?

And judging from the "leak" of the DLC -included in the actual game files about a Rogue-Reaper, reinforces that the control/synthesis isn't going to work. The Catalyst couldn't keep everyone in shack, so I doubt Shepard will, or the fact it might be an problematic scenario in Synthesis.

Speculations, but who knows.

Modifié par Fingertrip, 27 juin 2012 - 12:34 .

[masster blaster]

byne wrote...

So, I just watched the whole synthesis ending.

Two lines that really bugged me, but arent necessarily IT related:

We may transcend mortality itself.

Because never dying yet still reproducing wont lead to us eventually exhausting all the galaxy's resources. Overpopulation is just a myth! Death isnt necessary!

No matter how far we advance, we will remember the sacrifices who made it possible. And we will remember Shepard.

WHAT?!

Who the hell does EDI think made it possible? The Illusive Man? The Biotic God? Who does she attribute to making it possible that she thinks so highly of that she tacks Shepard on as an afterthought?

I didnt think I could dislike synthesis anymore, but damn.

Also it's funny that she menchants that " I feel more alive know..."

But she also said the same thing if you get to know her and help with her relationship with joker she says " only know do i feel moe alvie and that's because of OUR influlense so ya that buged me abit in green ending.

[byne]

Yknow, one thing I find odd. At one point, you can tell godchild "I dont believe you." and he'll say "Your belief does not matter."

TIM seemed to think otherwise. "I need you to believe."

Even bloody TIM disagrees with godchild.

Also, am I the only one who noticed that godchild admits that his creators did not agree with his decision to store them in Reaper form? Godchild has gone rogue, rebelled against his creators, and wiped organic life from the galaxy countless times, yet we're supposed to trust him?

Screw that.

[UKillMeLongTime]

Only the new choice/option when the kid says 'SO BE IT' or whatever it was in the voice of harbinger can it mean anything but that's who was trying to Mind F you the entire time?
I

[v0rt3x22]

byne wrote...

Yknow, one thing I find odd. At one point, you can tell godchild "I dont believe you." and he'll say "Your belief does not matter."

TIM seemed to think otherwise. "I need you to believe."

Even bloody TIM disagrees with godchild.

Also, am I the only one who noticed that godchild admits that his creators did not agree with his decision to store them in Reaper form? Godchild has gone rogue, rebelled against his creators, and wiped organic life from the galaxy countless times, yet we're supposed to trust him?

Screw that.

Yea I still believe something is really off....I dunno.....it's like an itch I can't scratch....

[lex0r11]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

byne wrote...

Yknow, one thing I find odd. At one point, you can tell godchild "I dont believe you." and he'll say "Your belief does not matter."

TIM seemed to think otherwise. "I need you to believe."

Even bloody TIM disagrees with godchild.

Also, am I the only one who noticed that godchild admits that his creators did not agree with his decision to store them in Reaper form? Godchild has gone rogue, rebelled against his creators, and wiped organic life from the galaxy countless times, yet we're supposed to trust him?

Screw that.

Yea I still believe something is really off....I dunno.....it's like an itch I can't scratch....

[GBGriffin]

Shine on, you crazy diamonds.

[UrgedDuke]

I can't believe that they redid every ending cut scene except the breathing scene wtf is up with that

[invetro]

Wow, I just watched the refusal ending. Nice angry reaper voice on starbrat. That buoyed my IT belief right back to the surface.

Personally, the only scene I really wanted clarified was the breath scene, because that would have given us a definitive answer of where Shep actually was, but that's as ambiguous as ever. Left like that for a reason? More to come? I think so.

Regardless, I will always pick destroy. Control Shep sounded a bit too fond of the new power s/he has (and the music had a more sinister feel to it, or maybe that was just me) and synthesis... yeah, I think most people have already touched on the whole moral vagueness of that one. I never thought I would feel sorry for husks, and not in a polite way.

In fact, I don't think we're getting any answers one way or the other until all single player DLC has been released, which probably involves buying it, because the endings, although kinda fixed, are surely not what Mike Gamble tweeted about a few months ago, because I currently have no incentive to hold onto my copy of Mass Effect 3 forever.

Let me file IT in my headcanon box for the time being though.

[lex0r11]

GBGriffin wrote...

Shine on, you crazy diamonds.

Holy Biotic God, it's GBGriffin himself.

How are you? Nice to see you here.

*stunned*

[GBGriffin]

I'd like to direct your attention to my signature for news on the next, upcoming piece of ending DLC.

[Seasiderben]

byne wrote...

So, I just watched the whole synthesis ending.

Two lines that really bugged me, but arent necessarily IT related:

We may transcend mortality itself.

Because never dying yet still reproducing wont lead to us eventually exhausting all the galaxy's resources. Overpopulation is just a myth! Death isnt necessary!

No matter how far we advance, we will remember the sacrifices who made it possible. And we will remember Shepard.

WHAT?!

Who the hell does EDI think made it possible? The Illusive Man? The Biotic God? Who does she attribute to making it possible that she thinks so highly of that she tacks Shepard on as an afterthought?

I didnt think I could dislike synthesis anymore, but damn.

I'm pretty sure the galaxy is vast enough to sustain continued population growth (200-400 billion stars). Not to mention the fact that I should think they would have access and have changed so much that self suffeciency would be easily attainable (We today nearly have self suffecient energy approaching with fusion powered plants in the works). I doubt there would be a problem with 'overpopulation' given the scale of the Galaxy.

[Jere85]

Did BW ever state they would fix their mistakes with EC? Because really, some scenes were obviously just there to fix mistakes we spotted.
Normandy picking up the crew, Hackett at the crucible noticing Shepard is actually there. And im sure there are others.
Can they at least admit they made mistakes i wonder?

[GBGriffin]

lex0r11 wrote...

GBGriffin wrote...

Shine on, you crazy diamonds.

Holy Biotic God, it's GBGriffin himself.

How are you? Nice to see you here.

*stunned*

I know! I've been gone too long. Probably for the best, though.

I've been busy with that pesky "real life" everyone's been going on about. To be honest, I'll probably disappear again after tonight, but, well, I couldn't resist getting in a word or two about the EC

Hope all's well with you!

[masster blaster]

III Achilles II wrote...

Just an FYI for all fans....

Apparently on the "refusal" ending, at the end you can hear Harbinger's voice. IGN made a comment that this might add some more support to the IT theory. I don't have to link, but you can check it out on their wiki.

and where did you find this evidence.

[Simon_Says]

byne wrote...

Yknow, one thing I find odd. At one point, you can tell godchild "I dont believe you." and he'll say "Your belief does not matter."

TIM seemed to think otherwise. "I need you to believe."

Even bloody TIM disagrees with godchild.

Also, am I the only one who noticed that godchild admits that his creators did not agree with his decision to store them in Reaper form? Godchild has gone rogue, rebelled against his creators, and wiped organic life from the galaxy countless times, yet we're supposed to trust him?

Screw that.

As I had put it several tiems before, the reapers are the very devil they claimed to prevent. Well, now the Starchild doesn't really say "yo dawg I heard you didn't like being killed by synethetics..." (at leat, I don't think he does now) but the fact remains. There wouldn't have been any conflict between synthetics and organics if not for the reapers.

[GBGriffin]

Well, to be fair, you've always been able to support the IT theory by picking and choosing your evidence.

Catalyst's voice sounds like Harby/a Reaper: +1 IT point
Shepard doesn't wake up at all, nor is there any mention at all of indoctrination: -1 IT Point (or all of them, really, since that was sort of the benefit of/hope for IT)

Depending on what you choose to believe, anything is possible.

Modifié par GBGriffin, 27 juin 2012 - 12:48 .

[Arkennys]

byne wrote...

Also, am I the only one who noticed that godchild admits that his creators did not agree with his decision to store them in Reaper form? Godchild has gone rogue, rebelled against his creators, and wiped organic life from the galaxy countless times, yet we're supposed to trust him?

Screw that.

Hey!

I'll just add this here.

Shepard: "Did you create them?"  [the Reapers]

RGC: "My creators gave them form. I gave them function. They, in turn, give me purpose. The Reapers are a synthetic representation of my creators."

Shepard: "And what happened to your creators?"

RGC: "They became the first true Reaper. They did not approve. But it was the only solution."

. . .  okay.

Regards, Arkennys