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[Dwailing]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Alright, I'm thinking about the Leviathan DLC, and a thought crossed my mind. This could be the missing link for IT. If Arrival isn't canon, and, as much as I hate to admit it, it MIGHT not be, then Shepard would need to be exposed to a Reaper or Reaper Artifact for a LONG time to help really kick-start the Indoctrination process. This could be it. For people who didn't play Arrival, this could be the explanation for how Shepard's indoctrination REALLY began.

If true that would have been great to play on your first playthrough, not DLC almost a year later. One you may have to pay for as well, which will only have even less people experience it.

I get the feeling it will be a while before BW decides that the fanbase is calm enough for paid DLC again.  Also, see my above theory.

Well, below theory once I've had a chance to bring it up again.

Modifié par Dwailing, 27 juin 2012 - 03:02 .

[Bill Casey]

Or maybe they intended it to be ambiguous...

[Dwailing]

Bill Casey wrote...

Or maybe they intended it to be ambiguous...

Bill, that's a worst case scenario at this point. 

[byne]

HellishFiend wrote...

Sero303 wrote...

I just read in an "IGN.com" description review of the EC DLC, says "the Extended cut DLC adds several hours of content..." I am not sure about the rest of you, but I managed to watch them all in well under 2 hours.

I guess you could consider it several hours if you start from Cronos each time, but since there is only one new scene prior to The Return, all you have to do is load up The Return and watch all 4 endings. And even that would only take 90 minutes tops. And that's not even new content, at that. Most of it is content and dialog we've already been through. 

All in all, if you add up all 4 endings, I think the "new content" is an hour in length at best.

Which new scene is added prior to The Return?

[EpyonX3]

Dwailing wrote...

Here's an idea, maybe the original endings are literal, and the Rejection ending is Indoctrination.  That way, BW can make EVERYONE happy by neither completely confirming or completely denying IT.  The IT haters get there extended original endings, and the IT lovers get, well, IT.  Honestly, I'm starting to wonder if BW HAD intended to make IT true for everything, but realized that enough people would get upset if IT was true for all that they decided it would be a better idea to have both.

I can't see rejecting the options as proof of IT. Shepard stands upright, claims he'll fight on his terms and will do it as a free man. This is the opposite of an indoctrinaed person.

Side Note:

Anyone think that the reaper outside is the very first reaper that the catalyst was talking about? It's colored much differently than the others and start killing ships again after the catalyst storms off.

[v0rt3x22]

Sero303 wrote...

I just read in an "IGN.com" description review of the EC DLC, says "the Extended cut DLC adds several hours of content..." I am not sure about the rest of you, but I managed to watch them all in well under 2 hours.

PR

[dreamgazer]

byne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Sero303 wrote...

I just read in an "IGN.com" description review of the EC DLC, says "the Extended cut DLC adds several hours of content..." I am not sure about the rest of you, but I managed to watch them all in well under 2 hours.

I guess you could consider it several hours if you start from Cronos each time, but since there is only one new scene prior to The Return, all you have to do is load up The Return and watch all 4 endings. And even that would only take 90 minutes tops. And that's not even new content, at that. Most of it is content and dialog we've already been through. 

All in all, if you add up all 4 endings, I think the "new content" is an hour in length at best.

Which new scene is added prior to The Return?

Starting at The Return doesn't include the Normandy rescue. 

[boeloe]

Dwailing wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...

Or maybe they intended it to be ambiguous...

Bill, that's a worst case scenario at this point. 

Agreed, this whole exercise was apparantly about 'closure'. The endings being ambigious seems incompatible with the concept of 'closure'.

[HellishFiend]

byne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Sero303 wrote...

I just read in an "IGN.com" description review of the EC DLC, says "the Extended cut DLC adds several hours of content..." I am not sure about the rest of you, but I managed to watch them all in well under 2 hours.

I guess you could consider it several hours if you start from Cronos each time, but since there is only one new scene prior to The Return, all you have to do is load up The Return and watch all 4 endings. And even that would only take 90 minutes tops. And that's not even new content, at that. Most of it is content and dialog we've already been through. 

All in all, if you add up all 4 endings, I think the "new content" is an hour in length at best.

Which new scene is added prior to The Return?

The Normandy or squadmates killed scene during the run. 

edit: 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 27 juin 2012 - 03:05 .

[byne]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Here's an idea, maybe the original endings are literal, and the Rejection ending is Indoctrination.  That way, BW can make EVERYONE happy by neither completely confirming or completely denying IT.  The IT haters get there extended original endings, and the IT lovers get, well, IT.  Honestly, I'm starting to wonder if BW HAD intended to make IT true for everything, but realized that enough people would get upset if IT was true for all that they decided it would be a better idea to have both.

I can't see rejecting the options as proof of IT. Shepard stands upright, claims he'll fight on his terms and will do it as a free man. This is the opposite of an indoctrinaed person.

Side Note:

Anyone think that the reaper outside is the very first reaper that the catalyst was talking about? It's colored much differently than the others and start killing ships again after the catalyst storms off.

I personally doubt any of the original Reapers are still around. We've killed quite a few this cycle, and these Reapers are bound to be more advanced than the originals were. The originals were probably destroyed long ago.

[Lokanaiya]

*Minor spoilers*
Allusions to Indoc, probably dialogue by squadmates, quest giver, maybe Hackett?
1086, 1166, 1241, 1606, 1611 (implying being alone w/ Leviathan) 1856
Relation of Leviathan to other Reapers:
1441, 1451, 1816
Leviathan's established as a major source of indoctrination, not related to Shep:
1111, 1116, 1281 (may be related to Shep also), 1311, 1631

[byne]

dreamgazer wrote...

byne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Sero303 wrote...

I just read in an "IGN.com" description review of the EC DLC, says "the Extended cut DLC adds several hours of content..." I am not sure about the rest of you, but I managed to watch them all in well under 2 hours.

I guess you could consider it several hours if you start from Cronos each time, but since there is only one new scene prior to The Return, all you have to do is load up The Return and watch all 4 endings. And even that would only take 90 minutes tops. And that's not even new content, at that. Most of it is content and dialog we've already been through. 

All in all, if you add up all 4 endings, I think the "new content" is an hour in length at best.

Which new scene is added prior to The Return?

Starting at The Return doesn't include the Normandy rescue. 

Oh. I guess I just included that as being part of The Return in my mind, since it happens like half a second before The Return.

[EpyonX3]

byne wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Here's an idea, maybe the original endings are literal, and the Rejection ending is Indoctrination.  That way, BW can make EVERYONE happy by neither completely confirming or completely denying IT.  The IT haters get there extended original endings, and the IT lovers get, well, IT.  Honestly, I'm starting to wonder if BW HAD intended to make IT true for everything, but realized that enough people would get upset if IT was true for all that they decided it would be a better idea to have both.

I can't see rejecting the options as proof of IT. Shepard stands upright, claims he'll fight on his terms and will do it as a free man. This is the opposite of an indoctrinaed person.

Side Note:

Anyone think that the reaper outside is the very first reaper that the catalyst was talking about? It's colored much differently than the others and start killing ships again after the catalyst storms off.

I personally doubt any of the original Reapers are still around. We've killed quite a few this cycle, and these Reapers are bound to be more advanced than the originals were. The originals were probably destroyed long ago.

Except for the super special one that doesn't get its hands dirty because it was the first reaper and it was based off of his creators. Possibility is all.

[HellishFiend]

Lokanaiya wrote...

*Minor spoilers*
Allusions to Indoc, probably dialogue by squadmates, quest giver, maybe Hackett?
1086, 1166, 1241, 1606, 1611 (implying being alone w/ Leviathan) 1856
Relation of Leviathan to other Reapers:
1441, 1451, 1816
Leviathan's established as a major source of indoctrination, not related to Shep:
1111, 1116, 1281 (may be related to Shep also), 1311, 1631

Thanks. 

[Dwailing]

 OK, I'm going to bring up an idea that was SORT OF brought up a while back.  At one point, there was speculation that BW was planning to make the Control and Synthesis endings literal while the Destory ending was indoctrination.  Now, that would not surprise me AT ALL.  However, they knew that the endings would be controversial, so they put in very limited, teaser endings to see what kind of reactions they would get.  So, what they decided was that, instead of making Destroy indoctrination and the others literal, they decided to get creative.  They would make the Destroy ending ALSO literal, and would add in a whole NEW decision that would be indoctrination.  That way, thanks to the very ambiguous nature of the orignal Destory ending, they can say that they didn't actually change the endings, they just shifted things around a bit.  So, Destroy ended up being literal, and Rejection became the indoctrination storyline ending (Whenever I talk about indoctrination, I don't mean that the ending LEADS to indoctrination, but rather, makes it clear that, at least in THAT context, the ending sequence was an indoctrination attempt.).  Basically, there are two types of endings, literal and indoctrination.  Originally, Destroy was indoctrination while Control and Synthesis were literal.  However, with the EC, they made Destroy literal as WELL, while making the new Rejection indoctrination.  That way, they can say that they didn't actually CHANGE the endings, they just shifted them around a bit.  And honestly, this is the only reason I can think of for the addition of Rejection.  It's like Destroy, only much, MUCH worse from a literal standpoint.  If everything is real, then at least have the cajones to sacrifice SOME of the galaxy instead of ALL of it.

Edit: Two things, 1: I apologize for the wall of text; 2: I want to address Epyon's point.

When I say Rejection is the indoctrination ending, I don't mean that it leads to Shep being indoctrinated.  I mean that it leads to the end sequence being REVEALED as an indoctrination attempt.  The other endings are still literal, it's just that the Rejection ending leads to Shep fighting off indoctrination.  If you listen to the dialogue, those are the words of someone rejecting indoctrintation.  Honestly, after I chose Rejection, I expected Shepard to wake up any minute.  It sounded like he was rejecting indoctrination and waking up.

Modifié par Dwailing, 27 juin 2012 - 03:14 .

[plfranke]

HellishFiend wrote...

byne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Sero303 wrote...

I just read in an "IGN.com" description review of the EC DLC, says "the Extended cut DLC adds several hours of content..." I am not sure about the rest of you, but I managed to watch them all in well under 2 hours.

I guess you could consider it several hours if you start from Cronos each time, but since there is only one new scene prior to The Return, all you have to do is load up The Return and watch all 4 endings. And even that would only take 90 minutes tops. And that's not even new content, at that. Most of it is content and dialog we've already been through. 

All in all, if you add up all 4 endings, I think the "new content" is an hour in length at best.

Which new scene is added prior to The Return?

The Normandy or squadmates killed scene during the run. 

edit: 

apparently there was also a change made to the 3rd dream

[HellishFiend]

plfranke wrote...

apparently there was also a change made to the 3rd dream

Are there any videos or other specifics available?

Modifié par HellishFiend, 27 juin 2012 - 03:14 .

[Dwailing]

plfranke wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

byne wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Sero303 wrote...

I just read in an "IGN.com" description review of the EC DLC, says "the Extended cut DLC adds several hours of content..." I am not sure about the rest of you, but I managed to watch them all in well under 2 hours.

I guess you could consider it several hours if you start from Cronos each time, but since there is only one new scene prior to The Return, all you have to do is load up The Return and watch all 4 endings. And even that would only take 90 minutes tops. And that's not even new content, at that. Most of it is content and dialog we've already been through. 

All in all, if you add up all 4 endings, I think the "new content" is an hour in length at best.

Which new scene is added prior to The Return?

The Normandy or squadmates killed scene during the run. 

edit: 

apparently there was also a change made to the 3rd dream

Really?  I'd love to see a comparison.

[boeloe]

That Normandy pickup of your injured squaddies was just... ridiculous. I mean you're charging the conduit with harbinger there who fires two times a second, you almost get hit a couple of times soldiers are dying around you, every second counts. And then you radio to do a pickup. The Normandy conveniently arrives immediately then you stand around a bit to chat with you squaddies and then you decide it is time to resume your charge to the beam.

I must have blinked when all that happened in the pre-EC.

[deltacypresss]

HellishFiend wrote...

plfranke wrote...

apparently there was also a change made to the 3rd dream

Are there any videos or other specifics available?

Had something to do with shep's facial expression. i thought it changed as well, but wasn't too sure at the time.

[masster blaster]

Guys what if the rogue Reaper is the one's who created the catalys? I know it's hard ro belive but what else do we have to lose.

[HellishFiend]

Dwailing wrote...

 OK, I'm going to bring up an idea that was SORT OF brought up a while back.  At one point, there was speculation that BW was planning to make the Control and Synthesis endings literal while the Destory ending was indoctrination.  Now, that would not surprise me AT ALL.  However, they knew that the endings would be controversial, so they put in very limited, teaser endings to see what kind of reactions they would get.  So, what they decided was that, instead of making Destroy indoctrination and the others literal, they decided to get creative.  They would make the Destroy ending ALSO literal, and would add in a whole NEW decision that would be indoctrination.  That way, thanks to the very ambiguous nature of the orignal Destory ending, they can say that they didn't actually change the endings, they just shifted things around a bit.  So, Destroy ended up being literal, and Rejection became the indoctrination storyline ending (Whenever I talk about indoctrination, I don't mean that the ending LEADS to indoctrination, but rather, makes it clear that, at least in THAT context, the ending sequence was an indoctrination attempt.).  Basically, there are two types of endings, literal and indoctrination.  Originally, Destroy was indoctrination while Control and Synthesis were literal.  However, with the EC, they made Destroy literal as WELL, while making the new Rejection indoctrination.  That way, they can say that they didn't actually CHANGE the endings, they just shifted them around a bit.  And honestly, this is the only reason I can think of for the addition of Rejection.  It's like Destroy, only much, MUCH worse from a literal standpoint.  If everything is real, then at least have the cajones to sacrifice SOME of the galaxy instead of ALL of it.

Edit: Two things, 1: I apologize for the wall of text; 2: I want to address Epyon's point.

When I say Rejection is the indoctrination ending, I don't mean that it leads to Shep being indoctrinated.  I mean that it leads to the end sequence being REVEALED as an indoctrination attempt.  The other endings are still literal, it's just that the Rejection ending leads to Shep fighting off indoctrination.  If you listen to the dialogue, those are the words of someone rejecting indoctrintation.  Honestly, after I chose Rejection, I expected Shepard to wake up any minute.  It sounded like he was rejecting indoctrination and waking up.

I wouldnt like that. Part of the reason I am so avid about IT is that it transforms the endings from being "thematically revolting" to being "thematically genius". An ending where Synthesis is real betrays the theme of strength in diversity that spans the entire trilogy. An ending where Control is real betrays the theme of the virtues of freedom and the failures of domination that also span the entire trilogy.

That was the entire point behind my Choose Wisely vid. It portrays the cohesiveness of the themes and how they blend in to each other. The literal endings contemptuously spit upon those themes and justify it with sophistry. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 27 juin 2012 - 03:19 .

[deltacypresss]

boeloe wrote...

That Normandy pickup of your injured squaddies was just... ridiculous. I mean you're charging the conduit with harbinger there who fires two times a second, you almost get hit a couple of times soldiers are dying around you, every second counts. And then you radio to do a pickup. The Normandy conveniently arrives immediately then you stand around a bit to chat with you squaddies and then you decide it is time to resume your charge to the beam.

I must have blinked when all that happened in the pre-EC.

There is also the whole fact that you couldn't get air support during the attack on that last destroyer becouse of the beam causing interference or something like that.

[plfranke]

I don't have any and haven't researched it myself. I'm spending all my time finding out why this dlc was 2 gigs and took 3 months to make. Jessica Merizan once tweeted "Release dates aren't made by accident" I believe this dlc was a cover up for something much bigger that will be revealed at sdcc. But I will take a break to find out what went on in this dream.

[TJBartlemus]

FellishBeast wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Hey!! Holy f***!! My mind is blown!!! Just finished EC, and it was nice. I got the best Destroy ending and I feel it was an excellent send off for Shepard. I even got the breath scene. When I saw that I was p***ed. They didn't explain it. However I felt that it was an excellent send off anyway. Then I come on here and find this.

*spoiler*
http://www.youtube.c...DS3mCmcE#t=396s

This is the single most awesome thing BioWare has ever done!! They made an extending of the original endings and secretly make a new one!!! This has to be the single most definite proof for IT I have ever seen.

Clever BioWare... Never occured to me to REJECT THE CHOICE!!! Still boggles my mind about the breath scene though... All I can say is that BioWare is officially my most favorite companies ever!! Great ending BioWare!!!  :lol::P

Can't tell if trolling or just incredibly stupid...

No not trolling. Or stupid. I believe that they made the effort and pulled it off. What other reason why they would put the reject ending if not for IT?? I'm sure many are upset because they didn't get what they wanted, but that's life. I'm sure the reject one or the destroy are the ones that BioWare is going to choose to coninue the story. Reject, because the fight isn't over, even though it's a losing fight. Doesn't remove the antagonists and the vague ending leaves lots of possibilities. (However there may be hope from the Leviathan DLC. Heres a quote: "So the Reapers did not fully exterminate their creators. That suggests they are fallible, even on large or long-term scales.") Destroy has possibilities because Shepard could live. There is more to it I'm sure. BioWare wouldn't just leave such a teaser unawnsered forever.

I just love the EC because I took a step back and observed all they did and it's pretty impressive. It totally went above my expectations. Sure I was dissappointed about the fact they didn't show how Shepard lived, or that they didn't directly prove the IT, but that's the fun of it right?? Without speculations the game would quickly fade and most interest would eventually fall. This way ME3 "stays in our trays" longer.

The BioWare team did say it was the end of Shepard's story, so it's not a surprise. Even if you dislike the EC, at least give the BioWare team credit for their hard work.