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[Dwailing]

deltacypresss wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Hello! I've just finished the EC and CHOSEN CONTROL.

Sooo, you chose the scare the crap out of me ending?  Great, just great.  What can I say, Shepard REALLY scares me in that ending.

LOL. He became a perfect being. Power to shape reality without being corrupted!

no way in hell was that shepard. had his memories sure. More like a mix of reaperbeiber and shepard imo.

Megumi said that Shep sounds like indoctrinated TIM, and she was right.  Like I said the Scare the Crap out of Me ending.

[deltacypresss]

plfranke wrote...
on that note hellish have you seen the control ending? I personally thought it was the best ending taken at face value but even there something was strange about it. Listening to my Shepard Reaper it felt like he had changed. He said things like I'll control the largest army ever and there's wisdom in controlling my enemies. Then he went on to say he'd destroy anyone that got in the way of the many. But isn't that what the reapers were doing from the very beginning?

and to quote you. Shepard is going to start to see things only in the big picture and will start the cycles all over again.


edit:

dwailing- i made the same remark earlier today.

Modifié par deltacypresss, 27 juin 2012 - 04:10 .

[HellishFiend]

plfranke wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

plfranke wrote...

I'm with you hellish. A literal ending would have been fine had it been 10 times beter but there's only one way for bioware redeem themselves. Here's my theory. There is a dlc that would require so many resources that it has to be paid for, but it's mid game. Since no one would have bought it before the ending was released they had to do this. They'll release that dlc and it will eventually be tied to the true ending.

Whether it's that, or anything else, honestly I'd be fine as long as it means that Control and Synthesis were not real endings. I still have faith that Bioware knows what theyre doing, but the frustration of having been jerked around by the EC is still fresh. I dont want these wonderfully written themes die the way they did in the literal endings. 

on that note hellish have you seen the control ending? I personally thought it was the best ending taken at face value but even there something was strange about it. Listening to my Shepard Reaper it felt like he had changed. He said things like I'll control the largest army ever and there's wisdom in controlling my enemies. Then he went on to say he'd destroy anyone that got in the way of the many. But isn't that what the reapers were doing from the very beginning?

Yeah, I saw it. My view on it is fundamentally negative because of the high value I place on themes, but they do even seem to go out of their way to make it seem even more sinister than it does by concept alone. Shepard's tone of voice, the music, the visuals, everything was made to seem sinister, in my opinion. 

In the original non-EC endings, if you put themes aside, Control was the best "outcome". In the EC endings though, I'm not so sure. Shepard seems corrupted even though he claims not to be....

[paxxton]

deltacypresss wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Hello! I've just finished the EC and CHOSEN CONTROL.

Sooo, you chose the scare the crap out of me ending?  Great, just great.  What can I say, Shepard REALLY scares me in that ending.

LOL. He became a perfect being. Power to shape reality without being corrupted!

no way in hell was that shepard. had his memories sure. More like a mix of reaperbeiber and shepard imo.

He has transcended into a new form of life. Metalife. He's now many in one form!

[D.Sharrah]

deltacypresss wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Hello! I've just finished the EC and CHOSEN CONTROL.

Sooo, you chose the scare the crap out of me ending?  Great, just great.  What can I say, Shepard REALLY scares me in that ending.

LOL. He became a perfect being. Power to shape reality without being corrupted!

no way in hell was that shepard. had his memories sure. More like a mix of reaperbeiber and shepard imo.

You mean Shepbinger...or is Harpard?

[Arian Dynas]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

So those who believe the IT is fact are pretty much trolls now, going by the contents of their post. Good to see people aren't still proclaiming the Earth is flat.

Thank you for that insulting and just plain rude blanket statement.

I still beleive IT, and I try to be pleasant about it.

Do the same for others, or as Wil Wheaton would put it "Don't be a dick." mmkay? 8=/=D

We've gotten an OK ending with some just weird things in it.

We've gone from Ultima 9 ending to Bladerunner ending.

Something mediocre and mostly fufilling, but otherwise forgettable if you discount the weird, out of place bits.

Just let us have our "Is Deckard a Replicant" debate, ok? If you disagree feel free to chip in. Otherwise, if you can't be polite, just don't read it at all.

[Dwailing]

OK, I'm off, see you all tomorrow at some point. BTW I make no promises as to when that will be. Good luck speculating without me.

[Five oH Thre3]

HellishFiend wrote...

Five oH Thre3 wrote...

 Anyone else notice how Liara only holds the bar that reads "Commander Shepard" at the end of the Destroy ending, but in the Synthesis/Control endings she actually puts the bar above "ADM David Anderson" Foreshadowing maybe?
Destroy
Control
Synthesis

I hope so. 

She even gives a sigh of relief and almost smiles a bit as if she knows something. All in all I hate having to specualte over half answers that BioWare keeps giving us. Maybe they have something else in store later as far as SP goes.

[Auralius Carolus]

Well, that was an utter waste of my time. What's going on peoples?

[HellishFiend]

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Hello! I've just finished the EC and CHOSEN CONTROL.

Sooo, you chose the scare the crap out of me ending?  Great, just great.  What can I say, Shepard REALLY scares me in that ending.

LOL. He became a perfect being. Power to shape reality without being corrupted!

Let us toast Shepard's omnipotence with our space magic wands!

[D.Sharrah]

Reposting for the new page...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Ok...so I'm thinking about the new endings and there are a few things that I want to get off my chest.  I am going to try and cover one choice at a time (and not all choices will be covered right away - but as I have a chance to think about them) - I do this because I fear if I don't my mind will actually explode.  So...
Synthesis
The explanation - I will give Bioware credit that I thought that they did a better job of explaining exactly what "synthesis" was (at least to them).  I especially appreciated the fact that they did a better job of explaining that "synthesis" was a two way street.  To make it very simple, we both (organics and synthetics) and have something that the other wants.

But in giving this explanation, they have created a new problem.  There examples of this "synthesis" that exist within the lore.  Now perhaps this was intended, and what the Catalyst means we he says that "we" are "ready" - but this will only lead to us getting ahead of ourselves in this discussion.  The examples that I allude to are of course, Shepard, Edi and the Geth (if upgraded with the Reaper Code + Legion Code).  There are other examples of this as well (President Huerta, anyone?), but let's focus on these.  The most obvious is Shepard, the iconic symbol of everything that is organic - but as astutely pointed out by the Catalyst, partly synthetic.  Edi, once a VI evolved into AI that by the end game is coming to grasp with emotions like fear and thanks Shep (at least if Paragoned) for helping her to feel "alive".  Then there is the Geth - let's not forget the image that Legion shows Shep on the Normandy - the upgraded Geth processing core and how it looks "beatiful".  I know that I am not getting into too many details, but I hope that you get the picture.  This form of "synthesis" in many ways is already happening...happening on its own.

Which leads into the next point that is wrong with the "explanation".  When pressed why the Reapers simply haven't already done this (since it is the pinnacle of evolution), the Catalyst feeds us a line about the Reapers trying but failing.  Failing because it was being forced.  Now this is where it gets fun, the Catalyst goes on to say that it won't fail this time because we are "ready".  Ready based on the points that I have mentioned in the post above - and using this as "evidence" that we are already moving towards this singularity.  The Crucible will simply provide a short cut for us.  Didn't we hear something similar from Legion in ME 2?  That the Reapers offered the Geth a shortcut to their evolution - a shortcut that they refused.  Yet we are now supposed to believe that since it is Shep making the choice - that its not forced?  Not to mention the fact that we can't say if we have shown that we are progressing towards this on our own, why not let nature take its course.

The Aftermath - Visually appealing...the voice work of Tricia Helfer, amazing.  Bioware did a bang-up job of creating something that looked beautiful on the surface.  I am not going to rail on what is wrong with the message - that dead horse has already been beaten enough.  But I did want to talk about what I saw and heard.  First, what I heard (and again amazing VA)...it was a repeat of Edi's dialogue throughout the entire game - a development path (that at least my Paragon Shep) had already helped her start walking.  By the end of my game, Edi was already feeling "alive"...to hear her say the same thing, was off-putting.  And what I saw, the sequences of them starting on the DNA and slowly building out to the "person" - was anyone else reminded of the ME 2?  In particular the scenes of the Lazarus Project, and Shep being rebuilt?  Again, visually appropriate given the  circumstance, but it just left me with this empty feeling.  I have seen this...I know this...why does this not seem like the end it should be?

The wall of text is already out of hand...I do apologize.  Please read, digest, respond - if nothing else, I hope that it gets you critically thinking about what else was presented.

David Sharrah

[HellishFiend]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Well, that was an utter waste of my time. What's going on peoples?

Discussing the waste of time, of course....

[McGrzegorz]

So I took Javik for the final mission and he left me... seriously?!?
Javik the avatar of Revenge?!? He left me so BW could fill the plothole?!?

BTW I still believe in IT. Now BW will release all DLCs they intended and at the end they will mess with our heads for the last time by releasing "True Ending" DLC...

Modifié par McGrzegorz, 27 juin 2012 - 04:14 .

[paxxton]

HellishFiend wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Hello! I've just finished the EC and CHOSEN CONTROL.

Sooo, you chose the scare the crap out of me ending?  Great, just great.  What can I say, Shepard REALLY scares me in that ending.

LOL. He became a perfect being. Power to shape reality without being corrupted!

Let us toast Shepard's omnipotence with our space magic wands!

[Auralius Carolus]

HellishFiend wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Well, that was an utter waste of my time. What's going on peoples?

Discussing the waste of time, of course....

And by waste of time, I don't mean this post, but the EC. Quite frankly, I believe we set the grounds for a better ending than provided.

A handful of plot holes filled, but some new ones opened. Gee, I wonder if they're making another game now? <_<

[Sero303]

McGrzegorz wrote...

So I took Javik for the final mission and he left me... seriously?!?
Javik the avatar of Revenge?!? He left me so BW could fill the plothole?!?

BTW I still believe in IT. Now BW will release all DLCs they intended and at the end they will mess with our heads for the last time...

Yea they will, under the mindset "well we lost all those customers, might as well screw with them"

[paxxton]

It all makes so much sense when spoken out loud by the Catalyst. It always did.

[infinite_regress]

  

D.Sharrah wrote...
*snip*

Bioware did a bang-up job of creating something that looked beautiful on the surface.  

David Sharrah [/i]

I literally (not figuratively!) thought the exact same thing. It seemed too ideal. 

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Hello! I've just finished the EC and CHOSEN CONTROL. 

Sooo, you chose the scare the crap out of me ending?  Great, just great.  What can I say, Shepard REALLY scares me in that ending.

Agreed. Especially considering what Starbrat says about the consequences of Shepard chosing control. 

D.Sharrah wrote...

Anyone seen any tweets asking Merizan what happened to being able to reunite w/ crew/LI?

Something like this?
http://twitter.com/J...805413280788480

and: http://twitter.com/J...789965633982464


Edit: don't know how to make it an actual link (so that you don't have to copy paste).

Modifié par infinite_regress, 27 juin 2012 - 04:18 .

[Sero303]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Well, that was an utter waste of my time. What's going on peoples?

Discussing the waste of time, of course....

And by waste of time, I don't mean this post, but the EC. Quite frankly, I believe we set the grounds for a better ending than provided.

A handful of plot holes filled, but some new ones opened. Gee, I wonder if they're making another game now? <_<

I seriously believe Casey Hudson and his team are indoctrinated, and being controlled by some extremely pissed lab monkey...

[D.Sharrah]

Five oH Thre3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Five oH Thre3 wrote...

 Anyone else notice how Liara only holds the bar that reads "Commander Shepard" at the end of the Destroy ending, but in the Synthesis/Control endings she actually puts the bar above "ADM David Anderson" Foreshadowing maybe?
Destroy
Control
Synthesis

I hope so. 

She even gives a sigh of relief and almost smiles a bit as if she knows something. All in all I hate having to specualte over half answers that BioWare keeps giving us. Maybe they have something else in store later as far as SP goes.

That was probably my biggest disappointment...no reunion with my LI (Liara) in any of the choices - and this after being told that this was one of the things that we could expect (along with the rest of the crew too).  Makes me wonder if there is more up their sleeve...

[Rossa14]

Five oH Thre3 wrote...

 Anyone else notice how Liara only holds the bar that reads "Commander Shepard" at the end of the Destroy ending, but in the Synthesis/Control endings she actually puts the bar above "ADM David Anderson" Foreshadowing maybe?
Destroy
Control
Synthesis

Yeah that is one of the first things i noticed when i saw the endings on youtube as well. It could just be a coincidence, but the fact that it's the destroy ending makes you think about it.....

[401 Kill]

If anybody has pointed this out please ignore this:

The Catalyst says that the created will always rebel against their creators, so he started the cycle so that never happens, but he then says that he was created and while finding a solution, essentially turned on his "Creators" and turned them into reaper form. It seems to me that he is just contradicting his own reasoning for having the cycles.

That part of the conversation just seems like it is making it more obvious that he is lying, but that is just my opinion.

[HellishFiend]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

Well, that was an utter waste of my time. What's going on peoples?

Discussing the waste of time, of course....

And by waste of time, I don't mean this post, but the EC. Quite frankly, I believe we set the grounds for a better ending than provided.

A handful of plot holes filled, but some new ones opened. Gee, I wonder if they're making another game now? <_<

Yeah, I gathered that you meant the EC. I'm usually a pretty calm guy, but there may have been some expletives involved when I discovered that after that emotional buildup, we were once again left without a definitive answer. 

[Lokanaiya]

plfranke wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

I understand that the original endings are thematically revolting, but that doesn't stop some people from liking them, or hating IT enough to think that the alternative is better.  My point is that this is BW's chance to do something truly unique, and their chance to win back a lot of their fanbase.  When have you ever heard of anything where the end is actually both real and symbolic at the same time?  It's something ONLY a game can do.  Movies, books, music, TV shows, theater, etc. none of these art forms can do this.  Only games could have an ending like this, where it is both completely real and completely symbolic at the same time.  To quote Star-Brat, (Never thought I'd be doing THAT outside of mockery. )  "It is an elegant solution."

I would still not be ok with that, and if they did go that route, to me it would just mean that in Control/Synthesis Shepard is simply forever living in his hallucinated dream world while the Shepard in reality is now working for the Reapers. 

One of the reasons I love the ME trilogy is how cohesive the themes are and elegance of their portrayal.  The literal endings, as I said, contemptuously spit upon those well-crafted and portrayed themes, and justify it with sophistry. It is a literary travesty worthy of bargain bin paperback books, not a triple-A trilogy like Mass Effect. 

Hey, if you want to interpret it differently, go ahead.  Like the devs said, they don't want to TELL you how to view the endings.  You have to decide for yourself what EXACTLY is going on.  You could argue that if you choose Control or Synthesis, you're still trapped in the hallucination.  Or, if you chose Rejection, you could argue that, assuming I'm right, of course, and it really DOES reveal that this was all an indoctrination attempt, you could say that anything that happens next are the insane thoughts of a dying man, looking for a way to make his death and the death of the entire galaxy mean something.  Even if some endings are TECHNICALLY literal, that doesn't mean YOU can't interpret them differently.  Or if some endings are indoctrination based (As I've said before, not Shepard actually being indoctrinated but learning that the choice was an indoctrination attempt.), YOU could still interpret it differently.

I apologize for being stubborn, but I am still - you guessed it - not ok with that. I went into this expecting to eventually get a definitive answer, which was promised to us prior to release. I went into it expecting a puzzle to be solved, not a fanfic to be written. Failure to ever state the nature of the endings would defeat the entire reason I have participated so heavily in this thread. If this were simply a matter of writing a headcanon, I would have been over and done with it in a week. 

Just to clarify, this is nothing against you or your opinion on the matter. It's just between me and BW. 

I'm with you hellish. A literal ending would have been fine had it been 10 times beter but there's only one way for bioware redeem themselves. Here's my theory. There is a dlc that would require so many resources that it has to be paid for, but it's mid game. Since no one would have bought it before the ending was released they had to do this. They'll release that dlc and it will eventually be tied to the true ending.

You mean like this, a Leviathan of Dis DLC? (Spoilers, obviously)

http://pastebin.com/rHzNDedX

I have a list of relevant lines a few pages back.

[Sero303]

401 Kill wrote...

If anybody has pointed this out please ignore this:

The Catalyst says that the created will always rebel against their creators, so he started the cycle so that never happens, but he then says that he was created and while finding a solution, essentially turned on his "Creators" and turned them into reaper form. It seems to me that he is just contradicting his own reasoning for having the cycles.

That part of the conversation just seems like it is making it more obvious that he is lying, but that is just my opinion.

and thus the catalyst's reapers should have turned on the catalyst as well...yes yet another sinkhole, (large plothole) one must step over to get to the bounty of rewards waiting for your after you select your clarified "A" B" "C" or "D" endings...