55528 réponses à ce sujet

[MissLiya]

Andromidius wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Andromidius wrote...
11/ Synthesis. Somehow they made it more ridiculous with that terrible graphic they added in. Not to mention making Husks 'alive'? That's horrifying! And yet, this is shown to be a great choice where everyone lives in happiness and peace and hope? Erm.

You called? 

Exactly.  Can you imagine how awkard it would be for Brutes?  They are half Krogan, half Turian!

they made husks alive???

[HellishFiend]

plfranke wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

How many hints are there that Indoctrination can still be the case? I've noticed:

- The noise when Shepard opens his/her eyes on the Citadel.
- Starbinger's deep voice immediately after refusing.
- The breath scene is exactly the same, besides the music overlay. Still looks like concrete...

I think, even if the endings were now literal, I would be okay with it to a point.

I wouldnt. The new EC endings are even larger thematic travesties than the on-disc endings. If you just want superficial closure, fine, I guess the new literal endings are minimally acceptable. But if you care at all about themes, plots, and cohestive storytelling, as I do, the new literal endings are puke-worthy. 

You're right Hellish. It's one of the reasons I hated Legend of Korra's finale so much. The themes of Mass Effect for me were working together despite differences which is undermined by synthesis which is somehow portrayed as the best ending. Sacrifice which is undermined by Control (yeah you lose your body but so what you become spacegod) and destroying the reapers at all cost which is undermined by both destroy and rejection. destroy kills the geth. I can't believe that I would be made to spend hours upon hours on quests to give the geth consciousness and then the choice which should arguably be the only viable option kills them. And rejection tells you that if you stand by your morales and don't give up in the face of overwhelming odds you lose. You can't abandon core themes for the sake of a twist or something philosophically engaging.

Exactly. The effect the new Destroy ending has on the established themes would be like if in LOTR, Samwise had to leap into the lava with the ring in order to destroy it, and for some reason destroying the ring would also kill all dwarves. Totally out of left field and serves no constructive purpose to the story as a whole. 

[The Invisible Commando]

Sorry IT, but its over. There is no mystery. Oh wait there is that breathe scene, but now you see that it's just an ending treat and not something to build a theory on.

[Andromidius]

plfranke wrote...

And rejection tells you that if you stand by your morales and don't give up in the face of overwhelming odds you lose. You can't abandon core themes for the sake of a twist or something philosophically engaging.

Yep, Reject basically says 'you wasted your effort, now to reload from 20 minutes ago and pick a proper choice.'

Thematically it says 'fighting against the odds is pointless, so pointless we're not even going to show you struggle until the last breath or even let you know how long you lasted'.  It is a well calculated slap in the face to people who wanted a reject option, as if you say 'so you want to lose? Fine, lose then!'

[JasonSic]

FellishBeast wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Andromidius wrote...



2:32 - Did Harbinger just say "Join us?"

...I think he did.

. . . . . .  o_o he did. I'm at least 90% sure. But he doesn't say it in his usual hharbinger voice, but that's probably because we're used to hearing him from a 6 foot tall drone and nto a goddam skyscraper sized war ship.

I'm sorry, but I'm really hearing "save us."
The way it happens makes it look like he's resisting the command to destroy Shepard and the Normandy, then takes a deep breath and says "save us" before giving in and zapping shep, though probably in as much of a restrained fashion as he can, as Shepard survives.

Based on what I read about the Leviathan DLC, the Reapers don't necessarily want to do what they're doing, but are forced, and can break free, apparently. Maybe Harbinger was reaching out to Shep for help...

When I think "save us" while listening to him, I hear "save us".
When I think "join us" while listening to him, I hear "join us".

But you do have a point, about the DLC. Anyone know if this Leviathan DLC would take place before or after the final events of the game?

[BansheeOwnage]

FellishBeast wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Andromidius wrote...



2:32 - Did Harbinger just say "Join us?"

...I think he did.

. . . . . .  o_o he did. I'm at least 90% sure. But he doesn't say it in his usual hharbinger voice, but that's probably because we're used to hearing him from a 6 foot tall drone and nto a goddam skyscraper sized war ship.

I'm sorry, but I'm really hearing "save us."
The way it happens makes it look like he's resisting the command to destroy Shepard and the Normandy, then takes a deep breath and says "save us" before giving in and zapping shep, though probably in as much of a restrained fashion as he can, as Shepard survives.

Based on what I read about the Leviathan DLC, the Reapers don't necessarily want to do what they're doing, but are forced, and can break free, apparently. Maybe Harbinger was reaching out to Shep for help...

I hear "save us" too you're not crazy (or we both are). And that would fit with my theory that the reapers are indoctrinated.

[Andromidius]

The Invisible Commando wrote...

Sorry IT, but its over. There is no mystery. Oh wait there is that breathe scene, but now you see that it's just an ending treat and not something to build a theory on.

Wrong.  There's more 'mystery' then ever now.

Ironically the terrible EC actually improves IT's validity.  So kindly stop spreading nonsense around.

[Starbuck8]

I noticed ashtrays and cigarettes in the cerberus HQ that I hadn't before, but they were probably there before.

[HellishFiend]

FellishBeast wrote...

I'm sorry, but I'm really hearing "save us."
The way it happens makes it look like he's resisting the command to destroy Shepard and the Normandy, then takes a deep breath and says "save us" before giving in and zapping shep, though probably in as much of a restrained fashion as he can, as Shepard survives.

Based on what I read about the Leviathan DLC, the Reapers don't necessarily want to do what they're doing, but are forced, and can break free, apparently. Maybe Harbinger was reaching out to Shep for help...

Please dont tell me you'd be ok with that... That's the kind of plot twist that would belong in the rejected manuscript of a teenage fiction high school plot where the bully is secretly trying to make a new best friend by kicking him in the balls repeatedly. 

[Dusen]

HellishFiend wrote...

I wouldnt. The new EC endings are even larger thematic travesties than the on-disc endings. If you just want superficial closure, fine, I guess the new literal endings are minimally acceptable. But if you care at all about themes, plots, and cohesive storytelling, as I do, the new literal endings are puke-worthy. 

I would definitely have to agree with you here. I cannot fathom why everyone is so happy with the current EC, but I'm just glad they can enjoy it and I wish I could as well. . . sadly, it still left me cringing. Of course it was free (can't complain there!) and it's just my opinion. . . I truly am glad that others can enjoy it, and I bear no ill feeling towards them for doing so.

[Auralius Carolus]

Andromidius wrote...

The Invisible Commando wrote...

Sorry IT, but its over. There is no mystery. Oh wait there is that breathe scene, but now you see that it's just an ending treat and not something to build a theory on.

Wrong.  There's more 'mystery' then ever now.

Ironically the terrible EC actually improves IT's validity.  So kindly stop spreading nonsense around.

Andro! Shhhh! Don't feed it, it'll come back and hang around under our bridge and demand a toll...

[Andromidius]

JasonSic wrote...

When I think "save us" while listening to him, I hear "save us".
When I think "join us" while listening to him, I hear "join us".

Actually...  Yes.  It could be either of those.

Both are very interesting.  Adding him talking at all is...something.

'Join us' seems more logical, as 'save us' would go against Harbinger's actions in ME2.  Unless of course he was a rebel back then too, and wanted Shepard as an agent to help break free...

Oh dear, more speculation!

[BansheeOwnage]

JasonSic wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Andromidius wrote...



2:32 - Did Harbinger just say "Join us?"

...I think he did.

. . . . . .  o_o he did. I'm at least 90% sure. But he doesn't say it in his usual hharbinger voice, but that's probably because we're used to hearing him from a 6 foot tall drone and nto a goddam skyscraper sized war ship.

I'm sorry, but I'm really hearing "save us."
The way it happens makes it look like he's resisting the command to destroy Shepard and the Normandy, then takes a deep breath and says "save us" before giving in and zapping shep, though probably in as much of a restrained fashion as he can, as Shepard survives.

Based on what I read about the Leviathan DLC, the Reapers don't necessarily want to do what they're doing, but are forced, and can break free, apparently. Maybe Harbinger was reaching out to Shep for help...

When I think "save us" while listening to him, I hear "save us".
When I think "join us" while listening to him, I hear "join us".

But you do have a point, about the DLC. Anyone know if this Leviathan DLC would take place before or after the final events of the game?

I think there was something in the files about the leviathan being a war asset. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If so, definately before.

[byne]

Ok, so, what I want all of you to figure out after I go to bed is when the breath scene takes place. It cant be too long after the battle, because even Shepard cant survive for days bleeding heavily with no food, water, or medical care.

If it isnt too long after the battle, surely someone would have found her and gotten her medical care. The news that Shepard had been located wouldnt stay a secret. It would be a cause of widespread celebration.

Hackett is still in the Sol system, I believe. Word would have gotten to him. I really dont see this taking more than a week or so, max.

Hackett has a QEC linked with the Normandy. When he got word that Shepard was found alive, he would have contacted them to let them know.

We see the Normandy crew standing by a memorial wall, about to put Shepard's name up, but dont, presumably thinking she might still be alive. They clearly dont know Shepard has been found at this point, but they then take off in a fixed Normandy.

So even if you wanted to argue the QEC was damaged, it likely would have been the first thing they fixed when they started working on repairs. This Normandy fixed scene seems to take place after the rebuilding of the Citadel, so even if you wanted to say Shep was there, and not London, she would have been found by then.

So, please, if you can, pinpoint exactly at what time the breath scene takes place.

The EC seems to have strengthened the idea that the breath scene took place after the Normandy crash, and it seems to have even taken place after the entire epilogue, which only strengthens IT. To me at least.

[HellishFiend]

Dusen wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I wouldnt. The new EC endings are even larger thematic travesties than the on-disc endings. If you just want superficial closure, fine, I guess the new literal endings are minimally acceptable. But if you care at all about themes, plots, and cohesive storytelling, as I do, the new literal endings are puke-worthy. 

I would definitely have to agree with you here. I cannot fathom why everyone is so happy with the current EC, but I'm just glad they can enjoy it and I wish I could as well. . . sadly, it still left me cringing. Of course it was free (can't complain there!) and it's just my opinion. . . I truly am glad that others can enjoy it, and I bear no ill feeling towards them for doing so.

Be glad you cant enjoy it, actually. It means you have taste when it comes to proper literature. If everyone was able to enjoy the likes of what the EC does to ME's overarching themes and plots, then AAA titles would be little more than overpriced arcade games. 

[Big Bad]

HellishFiend wrote...

plfranke wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

How many hints are there that Indoctrination can still be the case? I've noticed:

- The noise when Shepard opens his/her eyes on the Citadel.
- Starbinger's deep voice immediately after refusing.
- The breath scene is exactly the same, besides the music overlay. Still looks like concrete...

I think, even if the endings were now literal, I would be okay with it to a point.

I wouldnt. The new EC endings are even larger thematic travesties than the on-disc endings. If you just want superficial closure, fine, I guess the new literal endings are minimally acceptable. But if you care at all about themes, plots, and cohestive storytelling, as I do, the new literal endings are puke-worthy. 

You're right Hellish. It's one of the reasons I hated Legend of Korra's finale so much. The themes of Mass Effect for me were working together despite differences which is undermined by synthesis which is somehow portrayed as the best ending. Sacrifice which is undermined by Control (yeah you lose your body but so what you become spacegod) and destroying the reapers at all cost which is undermined by both destroy and rejection. destroy kills the geth. I can't believe that I would be made to spend hours upon hours on quests to give the geth consciousness and then the choice which should arguably be the only viable option kills them. And rejection tells you that if you stand by your morales and don't give up in the face of overwhelming odds you lose. You can't abandon core themes for the sake of a twist or something philosophically engaging.

Exactly. The effect the new Destroy ending has on the established themes would be like if in LOTR, Samwise had to leap into the lava with the ring in order to destroy it, and for some reason destroying the ring would also kill all dwarves. Totally out of left field and serves no constructive purpose to the story as a whole. 

Hmm...as Mulder would say, "I want to believe."  Right now, though, I'm just too disappointed to be hopeful about what's coming next.

[plfranke]

HellishFiend wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

I'm sorry, but I'm really hearing "save us."
The way it happens makes it look like he's resisting the command to destroy Shepard and the Normandy, then takes a deep breath and says "save us" before giving in and zapping shep, though probably in as much of a restrained fashion as he can, as Shepard survives.

Based on what I read about the Leviathan DLC, the Reapers don't necessarily want to do what they're doing, but are forced, and can break free, apparently. Maybe Harbinger was reaching out to Shep for help...

Please dont tell me you'd be ok with that... That's the kind of plot twist that would belong in the rejected manuscript of a teenage fiction high school plot where the bully is secretly trying to make a new best friend by kicking him in the balls repeatedly. 

I don't know hellish are you telling me you wouldn't like an ending where harbinger is your flagship and you and him have to face off against the fat kid. because I would gladly team up with harbinger to kill the catalyst. but that's probably just because I love harbinger and am heartbroken that they destroyed his character

[FellishBeast]

HellishFiend wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

I'm sorry, but I'm really hearing "save us."
The way it happens makes it look like he's resisting the command to destroy Shepard and the Normandy, then takes a deep breath and says "save us" before giving in and zapping shep, though probably in as much of a restrained fashion as he can, as Shepard survives.

Based on what I read about the Leviathan DLC, the Reapers don't necessarily want to do what they're doing, but are forced, and can break free, apparently. Maybe Harbinger was reaching out to Shep for help...

Please dont tell me you'd be ok with that... That's the kind of plot twist that would belong in the rejected manuscript of a teenage fiction high school plot where the bully is secretly trying to make a new best friend by kicking him in the balls repeatedly. 

As someone who wants to have a badass showdown with Harbinger for my ending...obviously I would hate this. But right now my spirit is shattered and it honestly doesn't seem like a terrible idea to me. If I were more clear of mind, I'd totally hate it, for the record.

I'm just sharing what I speculated from it. It seems like the Reapers themselves aren't willing servants of the cycle. This makes sense since the Catalyst supposedly made its creators into a Reaper without their permission. They could be Harbinger for all we know. I'm just interpreting literally. I'll leave IT to the people with hope, until mine comes back.

Leviathan DLC did give me a spark, however. It could potentially improve our "Reject" ending which could be nice.

I would be intrigued to find out that the Reapers were victims to some greater, ancient evil, however.

[Andromidius]

byne wrote...

Ok, so, what I want all of you to figure out after I go to bed is when the breath scene takes place. It cant be too long after the battle, because even Shepard cant survive for days bleeding heavily with no food, water, or medical care.

There is no literal explaination.  None.

So either its a 4th wall breaking Easter Egg or its proof for IT or some similar concept.

[Andromidius]

HellishFiend wrote...

Dusen wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I wouldnt. The new EC endings are even larger thematic travesties than the on-disc endings. If you just want superficial closure, fine, I guess the new literal endings are minimally acceptable. But if you care at all about themes, plots, and cohesive storytelling, as I do, the new literal endings are puke-worthy. 

I would definitely have to agree with you here. I cannot fathom why everyone is so happy with the current EC, but I'm just glad they can enjoy it and I wish I could as well. . . sadly, it still left me cringing. Of course it was free (can't complain there!) and it's just my opinion. . . I truly am glad that others can enjoy it, and I bear no ill feeling towards them for doing so.

Be glad you cant enjoy it, actually. It means you have taste when it comes to proper literature. If everyone was able to enjoy the likes of what the EC does to ME's overarching themes and plots, then AAA titles would be little more than overpriced arcade games. 

Weirdly, I actually started to enjoy ME3 while I was doing a power-playthrough in time for the EC.  Was a bit late, obviously, but I think I put 12 hours of solid gameplay in last night/this morning.

Still missing the neutral option, and Shepard didn't feel like my avatar (well...considering I play FemShep that would be worrying anyway), but the story was fun.  Even if Kai Leng was making me foam at the mouth at how annoying and pathetic he is.  And then...

Yeah.

[BansheeOwnage]

FellishBeast wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

I'm sorry, but I'm really hearing "save us."
The way it happens makes it look like he's resisting the command to destroy Shepard and the Normandy, then takes a deep breath and says "save us" before giving in and zapping shep, though probably in as much of a restrained fashion as he can, as Shepard survives.

Based on what I read about the Leviathan DLC, the Reapers don't necessarily want to do what they're doing, but are forced, and can break free, apparently. Maybe Harbinger was reaching out to Shep for help...

Please dont tell me you'd be ok with that... That's the kind of plot twist that would belong in the rejected manuscript of a teenage fiction high school plot where the bully is secretly trying to make a new best friend by kicking him in the balls repeatedly. 

As someone who wants to have a badass showdown with Harbinger for my ending...obviously I would hate this. But right now my spirit is shattered and it honestly doesn't seem like a terrible idea to me. If I were more clear of mind, I'd totally hate it, for the record.

I'm just sharing what I speculated from it. It seems like the Reapers themselves aren't willing servants of the cycle. This makes sense since the Catalyst supposedly made its creators into a Reaper without their permission. They could be Harbinger for all we know. I'm just interpreting literally. I'll leave IT to the people with hope, until mine comes back.

Leviathan DLC did give me a spark, however. It could potentially improve our "Reject" ending which could be nice.

I would be intrigued to find out that the Reapers were victims to some greater, ancient evil, however.

I do believe an aweome cross-series is in order
http://24.media.tumb...8vjbro2_500.gif

[Arian Dynas]

Welp. I sent a message to Gamble here on the BSN, I'll see what I get back.

Here's what I said. It was kind of cathartic to write, actually.

I wanted to say; thank you. Thank you for thinking of us and at least attempting to make things better for your fans. But I personally at least, am still denied closure.

Are there more secrets? Have we answered everything about the ending?

Is indoctrination theory officially off the table?

Because if that is the case, then I will be honest when I describe Synthesis and Control as hypocritical and thematically revolting, since they align so incredibly closely with the motivations of the two major VILLAINS of ME1 and ME3, while every single person on Shepard's side was firmly in the camp of Destroy.

Why go a complete 180 of the message there?

Also, if, as I said Indoctrination is off the table, what then is the point of the dreams? The child?

Or is Indoctrination theory merely neither confirmed or denied? The Extended Cut merely intended to be what you originally wanted to have as the on disc ending, letting us fill in the blanks ourselves and draw our own conclusions from there,but at least satisfying those who didn't want to look deeper? A sort of "Was Deckard a Replicant" deal for us to speculate about?

Is there more to come? ME4? A sort of "Arrival" for ME4? An expansion pack? If that's the case, can I advise adding a "To be Continued" title card just after the breath scene? Or is it as Madeline said "That's all there is, there isn't anymore."?

We, I and many of my friends, feel like we were left unmoored, hanging, unresolved. Yes our smaller questions got answered, but some of the bigger ones are still there.

As a matter of fact, if all that was ever going to happen in the end was us getting jossed, why let us build up the anticipation at all? Why did you want speculation?

You don't have to answer my questions, but it would make me feel alot better if you were to. Even a "We have neither denied or confirmed Indoctrination Theory" would give me hope, or maybe you can blink a few times or something, because, it does come down to personal taste, but I just really don't like the implications of taking the endings literally.

One way or another, if you decide to indulge me or not, I'd like to know if you get this. So I'll part saying I love Mass Effect, I love your work, and I love Bioware, never stopped. I've been playing Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights and a handful of others since I was 9 years old. And well, if nothing else, the Extended Cut, if meant to be taken literally, at least made the endings bearable. If I have given offense anywhere in this little letter, I apologize, for no where was it my intent, I'd just like a little bit of closure from the man in charge.

[JasonSic]

I think the way Bioware set up the EC was to satisfy the literalist while giving us just enough clues to keep on speculating.

[Big Bad]

HellishFiend wrote...

Dusen wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I wouldnt. The new EC endings are even larger thematic travesties than the on-disc endings. If you just want superficial closure, fine, I guess the new literal endings are minimally acceptable. But if you care at all about themes, plots, and cohesive storytelling, as I do, the new literal endings are puke-worthy. 

I would definitely have to agree with you here. I cannot fathom why everyone is so happy with the current EC, but I'm just glad they can enjoy it and I wish I could as well. . . sadly, it still left me cringing. Of course it was free (can't complain there!) and it's just my opinion. . . I truly am glad that others can enjoy it, and I bear no ill feeling towards them for doing so.

Be glad you cant enjoy it, actually. It means you have taste when it comes to proper literature. If everyone was able to enjoy the likes of what the EC does to ME's overarching themes and plots, then AAA titles would be little more than overpriced arcade games. 

I feel that it's pretty dickish to say that people who liked the EC (or the original endings) simply don't understand the series, but I kind of feel like it's true.  Maybe I'm just a dick.

[plfranke]

Andromidius wrote...

plfranke wrote...

And rejection tells you that if you stand by your morales and don't give up in the face of overwhelming odds you lose. You can't abandon core themes for the sake of a twist or something philosophically engaging.

Yep, Reject basically says 'you wasted your effort, now to reload from 20 minutes ago and pick a proper choice.'

Thematically it says 'fighting against the odds is pointless, so pointless we're not even going to show you struggle until the last breath or even let you know how long you lasted'.  It is a well calculated slap in the face to people who wanted a reject option, as if you say 'so you want to lose? Fine, lose then!'

It's infuriating really, especially when you consider that it is probably, universally, the most shepard like decision, unless of course your shepard just vehemently hated AI. I honestly think instead of developing the game around the stupid fat kid and the crucible it should have been around some new high tech form of thanix cannon and building alliances and ships and such. then if you did absolutely everything in the game there was to do you could defeat the reapers narrowly while sustaining heavy losses, with everyone plot important surviving (depending on your choices). But it's so stupid that some guy can go play multiplayer and promote a ton of guys and get gr to 100% make the worst decisions in the game and do no sidequests or scanning but pick control and get a seemingly perfect ending. And then a guy who actually cares about the game and its themes could do absolutely everything there is to do and pick reject and lose offscreen.