WARNING: THIS MAY BE AN IMMEDIATE TL;DR (it's re-heally long and contains babble), so you can skip to the end, or heck, even just skip it entirely! Give the old scroll function on the mouse a good workout.My initial reaction to reading about the Extended Cut spoilers was 'OH-GOD-WE'RE-DONE-FOR' in regards to IT. But then I watched the videos themselves (cheers, Sony EU, for leaving me to bond with YouTube) , and was surprised to see that all the little EC add-ons strengthen IT even more so than before. There are lots of little changes/additions that certainly didn't need to be there if Starchild is to be taken literally. Why do them? Why go to the effort if they mean nothing?
The following babble is not necessary to confirm that there will be a big climatic DLC (I'm still flip-flopping on that issue), but to again propose that Bioware very much intended IT, and that the EC only adds to it. I babble about with the following for those saying 'you're in denial/delusional/you don't want to accept the real ending' to some other users, and I thought I'd offer my perspective on why I flip-flopped immediately right back to IT after watching the videos. I would accept the current ending happily (well, not happily, but accept it), but then they added in more to fuel the fire. Damnit, Bioware, I'd gotten over it, how dare you drop hints that suck me back in!
Going back and reading through the thread now, a lot of people have said similar things to this, but I've spent a tragic, rainy day off typing this, so damnit, I'll post anyway!
Dream A Little Dream Of Me (or 'Getting Laid Is Exhausting Work'):-I'm running off YouTube videos here, and I haven't found a copy of this dream scene. Curse you, Sony EU!
Final Run to Beam (also known as 'Add A Teaspoon of More Harbinger to Taste', or 'Harbinger Just Wants To Watch His Love Interest Soaps'):- At the very last point of the run before the Flying Mako of Doom smashes into your LI, the camera in the original ending trains the focus on the beam, whereas the new last portion of run is focused on Harbinger instead, just to remind you that, HEY, THIS DUDE IS DEADLY, HE'S GOT GOOD AIM, AND HE'S ATTACKING YOUR FACE. The focal point of the camera is set at Harbinger with the beam very slightly off to the left, whereas in the original, the focal point of the camera is the beam, with Harby is off to the right. While you can absolutely say this is pedantic - and hell yeah, it is! - that camera focus is still been changed to keep an eye on ol' Harbinger. This is more important later!
- Why doesn't Harbinger shoot the Normandy straight out when Joker lands nearby? His aim is better than that. He could fix all is problems in one shot if that's the case.
- Harbinger then demonstrates some very gentlemanly behaviour to not directly shoot you in the face with his laser beam while you have a nice tragic goodbye with your LI/BFF-teamate-4-eva. In response to those saying, well, he has other things to distract him with - does he really? Wouldn't Shepard and the Normandy be Public Enemy No. 1? He's floating a decent height off the ground, and he could survey the entire battlefield/slope easy from there. Why shoot a mook when you can take out Shepard, and win the war in one go? (Pure speculation: he's giving you emotional closure, so you're more open/calm to accepting the final stages of indoctrination?) A good two minutes go by of Harbinger just being the awkward pink elephant near the beam. (Maybe he's enjoying the soap opera, which I can't blame him for, the ManShep/Kaidan goodbye gave me more FEELS than I knew what to do with.) When Shepard turns around from the final goodbye, the first shot we see is Harbinger. Just floating there. Just hanging out. Watchin' Shepard. Shepard looks back. Hey, Harbinger, if you really want to stop Shepard from hitting the beam, you've got a great armour-clad sitting duck moment right here.
-The Normandy then takes off with Harbinger in the same frame. Harby again does absolutely nothing. He doesn't even make a half-assed attempt to play-hit the Normandy. The Normandy pulls out slowly, followed by the obligatory warp-drive of awesome. Even a half-drunk Reaper could have easily taken the ship out! But, no, Harbinger - after all this - still does nothing. It isn't until everyone leaves, and Shepard becomes a much harder moving target again, that he decides to act - and hits a running Shepard easily. (Clearly those aiming problems he was having earlier have gone.) So out of the last two minutes where he's done bugger all, and even had the flagship spacecraft of the Alliance AND Commander Shepard as non-moving targets, he did nothing. Why?
The argument back could understandably be that Harbinger's behaviour is dictated by the needs of the plot. I would completely agree with this reasoning, and toss all of the above out the window, if Bioware didn't make so much effort to show Harbinger throughout the scene. It's not a 'woops, we forgot he was there, let's get on with the story', it's a constant shots of 'Harbinger is there - floating there - still - is he going to do something? - nope, still floating - is he going to do something now - nope, still floating - wow, the Normandy is an easy target, shouldn't you-- okay, nope, nope, still floating.' They made a effort to make him considerably more prominent than he was in the original ending - either by having him consistently in the background, or cutting back to him with various full shots. If you just take the ending/EC at face value, why make Harbinger so prominent in this scene? Especially if he is just a throw away puppet to the Muppets In Space Baby? That is, unless ol' Harbinger is waiting for Shepard. As an added bonus, while he waits and watches Days of Lives: Space Edition play out, he can exude his potent manly Indoctrination Space Rays, to make up for the fact he's never been in Shepard's immediate vicinity before - and speed up the final stages of the indoctrination process. Up close and personal is better that all the long-distance indoctrination phone calls he's had to make to Shepard all game. ...randomly, I wonder if Indoctrination Space Rays work like mobile phone towers? Ow.
Arrival on Costa del Citadel (or 'Why Didn't I Check To See If My Pina Colada Was Spiked With Hallucinogenic Drugs Before I Downed It?'):- All the shots, lighting, and hell, timing, in the intro of this scene have changed. Why do they need to this? If we're taking the endings at face value, all the changes add nothing plot relevant, yet they still took the time to do it. Animators, Sound Designers/Engineers, lighting department, editors - that's a lot of people for a small scene that supposedly adds nothing.
- The very first shot is a Keeper picking up a helmet. From the video I watched (which admittedly was very dark), the helmet looks like Shepard's salvaged ME2 helmet, that was always kept so close by as a memento in Shep's cabin. Why add that in? Why go to the effort of animating a Keeper to pick up the helmet, regardless of which helmet model it is? Seriously. Why.
- Shepard's classy belly-flop out of the conduit was then added in, instead of just the original implied sound effect. In the EC, Shepard doesn't wake up/move until Anderson calls (with a horrifying WHAT-THE-HELL-IS-THAT-NOISE-HARK-IS-THAT-A-REAPER-I-HEAR added), as opposed to the original where Shepard is already awake and moving when Anderson calls for him/her. Why change all of this if it means nothing?
Bringing A Gun To A Business Meeting (or 'You Do The Hokey-Pokey and You Switch Your Gun Around'):- The gun/hand switcheros didn't get fixed, huh. Why not fix that issue, over adding a Kleptomaniac Keeper, and the Shepard/new wake-up/Anderson/terrifying sound effect?
Refusal Ending (also known as 'Toddlers and Tiaras Tantrums: Reaper Edition' or 'Is The Muppets In Space Baby Really Just Gonzo In Disguise?')- When Shepard begins to argue back with the Gonzo The Amazing Starchild, the prominent aspect to Spacebrat's voice is the Child's. The next line of dialogue from it make's Meer's voice more prominent. The line of dialogue after that make's Meer's voice even louder again. (I tested both Fem/Male!Shep, and weirdly, Meer's voice seemed more prominent in both, even over Hale's. But there is a definite sound increase, regardless of the gender, with each line of dialogue.) That's an interesting amount of effort you've made there, Bioware! Why do any of this if it's just the literal Starchild talking? Not like it could be an indication of Shepard struggling against indoctrination, and needing to be convinced by a manifestation of his/herself...
- Of course, the next bit we're alllll talking about: when Shepard says 'nopenopenope, not doing this', the Spacebrat takes a pause, and then Harbinger's voice snaps, 'So be it.'
From a technical standpoint, if going by the literal Starchild theory in that he exists+he's the one in charge, why on earth would they go to the trouble of getting Keith Szarabajka/any voice actor, to record a line of dialogue, and then put the reverb on top of it? It doesn't add meaning to a non-IT theory. It costs money and time, and adds nothing if Starchild really exists. Why not have the child's voice say 'so be it'? But if Starkid is just a form that Harbinger is using to convince Shepard, and he's furious - well, it certainly does add that clarification that you said the EC would deliver, Bioware!
I'm speculating heavily here with a paragraph of rubbish, but after Shepard turns Harbinger down on their new life-commitment ceremony, Harbinger pauses. He thinks about all the trouble he's gone to get Shepard to this point. The months of dreams, sending Shepard dead baby hallucinations - all the work and unpaid overtime he's put in, and Shepard isn't going to play ball? Well, bugger it. Harbinger loses his cool. He washes his giant feeler-hands of Shepard. Shepard made his bed, now he can lie in it - Harbinger isn't playing Good Cop anymore. Bad Cop Harbinger is in the house, and all the deals are off the table. Harbinger then puts the child facade back in place for one last verbal shot: Hey, screw you, Shepard. All you did means nothing. "The cycle continues." (Little does he know, apparently, heh, good ol' Liara.)
- The woman speaking to the child at the end sounds a hell of lot like Samara's voice/Samara's inflections. I don't think it is literally Samara, but it's interesting they chose either her voice actor or someone similar to invoke an Asari-like tone.
Control Ending ('In Which Shepard's Doing Exactly What TIM Wanted - With Style!' or 'Damnit, Shepard, This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things') and
Synthesis Ending ('In Which Shepard is Dabbling In Eugenics and Is Putting Out Exactly Like Harbinger Wanted'.)-What I loved about the new footage for Control and Synthesis is that now you're seeing the consequences of your actions, whereas before we had to imagine - and the reality we see is a stark one. Both, while fun, when looked upon with the context provided throughout the games (don't join the reapers, you can't control the reapers, they'll convince you, you must destroy them instead, etc etc), become horrific.
-Great. You've Assumed Direct Control. You're either a benevolent dictator or an evil one. (Renegade!Shepard gets props in particular for becoming exactly what s/he fought to destroy. Fantastically chilling!)
-If it had been any other game, with any other back-story, I would have found the Synthesis ending to be a palatable idea. Pity it goes against everything Shepard already knew to be A Very Bad Idea, and, until s/he was convinced otherwise by Starchild's Year 9 Debate Speech. (The glowing green eyes give me 'The Bloodening' flashbacks from The Simpsons.) The music, too, is fantastic - neither piece of music, regardless of the Synthesis/Control/Paragon/Renegade version, is remotely as cathartic and as celebratory as the music that plays with Destroy.
Destroy Ending ('How I Learnt To Stop Worrying and Love The Crucible' or 'WHY IS SHEPARD STILL BREATHING WHY STOP DOING THIS TO US BIOWARE WHY.')A flashback of EDI. Triumphant, celebratory music. The LI pausing putting up the plaque. Shepard breathing with the right EMS. As far as the ending goes, and as much as this series is about choices, well, this does seem to sit under a 'hey, you picked the right ending, trumpets blaring' category. While nothing has really changed since the original iteration of the ending, it's the only ending that doesn't deal with absolutes, and it's the only ending with Still Alive!Shepard. It's also the only ending (I keep typing the word 'ending', where's a thesaurus) where the choice made had an outcome where there were immediately no more reapers. So where do we go from here?
Well, what the EC changed for me, was that now I really don't think the endings of Synthesis/Control/etc are in Shepard's head. We're watching the endgame play out through Shepard's various choices - it's just that we're missing the pieces of the puzzle in between. In Refusal we saw the importance of choice. Liara says the crucible didn't work. What we know that Liara didn't, was that Shepard stood back, and didn't stop anything. Bioware gave us the ending we all requested, but Shepard didn't make a choice, so everybody died. Even though I definitely like Refusal best, it is still Shepard backing off and choosing to do nothing. For better or worse, with however the Reapers/Catalyst/Crucible is connected, and regardless of Harbinger's motivations, Shepard had to make a proactive choice to win.
On top of literally seeing the results of Shepard's choices play out in the galaxy with the endings, I realised that a big finale DLC became less probable (see: more DLC speculation below). While I would love a scene with Shepard waking up post-Starbrat chat and confronting Harbinger about his dastardly plans, well, I don't think it's an option we're necessarily going to get. Shepard breathing shows s/he survived, that we made the right choice, and that it is your reward that the other players don't get for resisting indoctrination. Maybe Bioware will continue to go the Prometheus route and THEN NEVER CONFIRM ANYTHING UNTIL WE ALL GO BATTY AHHHAAA SCREAM.
What drives me to said battiness is that it doesn't ruin artistic integrity TO GIVE ANSWERS sometimes that aren't twenty years down the line (like they were joking earlier). It really, really doesn't. They keep dancing around the IT like it's a Irish jig. No confirming or denying. It doesn't ruin anybody's special snowflake dreams to say 'lovely idea, guys, but it's not what we intended.' Unless, well, maybe they can't give out all the answers yet...
They Said This Was The Last Ending, Didn't You Listen, Jeez, Why Are You Still Going On About It?I know, right? I'm annoying myself. They've been pretty steadfast about the ending, haven't they! (Of course, the lovely Jessica confuses us yet again via her Twitter today: "We are finished with ending DLC at this point." AT THIS POINT? AT THIS POINT. Why tack on 'at this point', arrrgh.) With the Leviathan DLC found, hmm, surely it would have to add plot relevant information to the overall story arc of the final game? A rebellious reaper trolling his bros 'n hos? That can't be useful at all to figuring out how to destroy them!
My complaint is that adding in story-relevant DLCs to a finished narrative doesn't feel right from a thematic standpoint. (I've been trying to think of games where DLC effects the story, but then keeps the same ending. FFXIII-2, the big mess of timey-wimey that it was, was so non-linear and so based on the player already knowing the ending that it didn't really matter where the DLC landed story wise. The last DLC - the emotional punchy one - was still setup story-wise for the player after we'd experienced all the revelations, and then added another to make up for the fact we'd had to play through all that rubbish again. Also, sigh, FFXIII-2.) At any rate, because we've already gone through the emotions of the ending, we'll never experience it new and fresh - it makes anything added into the story when we know the endgame seem hollow. But if the DLC keeps the bulk of the ending, but changes how we look at it, well...
If you look at ME2, it obviously has an ending, a fantastic one at that! But then you add in The Arrival, and suddenly the ending isn't so much of an ending anymore. The Arrival becomes the ending for ME2 - or at least, a gut-punch of an epilogue. The rest of the DLC in ME2, whilst awesome, didn't matter from an over-arching story specific point. LotSB, Overlord, Kasumi/Zaeed - they add nothing to the ME2 plot, and while hella enjoyable, and can be missed without affecting the endgame.
You don't give out your definitive ending before you finish off your whole story - especially since it looks like the Leviathan DLC could potentially add pieces to the ending, and change StarlightSparkle's dialogue on top of that. So while we will still have 'The Ending' (which means from Bioware's perspective they haven't been lying to us), with each DLC, we will learn another bit of the puzzle. Will we eventually have enough dialogue choices added to get a new ending? Will we get dialogue choices that DON'T change the ending of the Control/Destroy/etc videos themselves, but change the context for it? (Pure speculation: eventually through experiencing DLC-related plot, Shepard gets enough pieces of information to definitively say to SpaceSkywalker, 'hey, I know what you are, bro.' The only logical choice for the player would then become choosing Destroy, as we would have seen more back story on the reapers/motivations by that point via DLC. Everything plays out as normal with the Extended Cut after that, but now we know that we are destroying Harbinger and the reapers, not Baby Space Jesus From Space.) With the latest from Mike Gamble: "Would now be a good time to talk about how we're doing more DLC in the future? :P" and "That was a trick question. We'll save the future DLC for future chats. Don't worry though...there's much more."
Epileptic Trees, Epileptic Trees everywhere!
...although, this theory does lead to some pain. Bioware, how many times am I going to have to play through this bloody ending? I can't take another round at the Cronos Station + Earth without becoming a crazy person. I can't take another round of LI goodbyes -- ooh, right in the feels.
While I'm not sure if there will be a big DLC finale ending (or a DLC that adds pieces to change the context of the ending), to respond to those saying 'why would they go to all the effort with the EC and then change the ending later?' Well, what also surprised me is how little they would have had to create new for the EC. Not to diminish all the work the lovely peeps at Bioware did - they really did a beautiful job, and I enjoyed the changes - but outside of matte/background paintings, nothing new was really made. All the assets were there. The reaper models, the character models , etc, etc. Throw in some beautiful paintings - Zaeed, what are you doing, bro? - and round up your voice actors (that would have to do DLC work anyway) for some touching narration, and you're good to go with your original assets. So Bioware shoves the DLC production back, or uses a small team, and does three months of work on Extended Cut. It'll be more beneficial in the long run even if it costs a bit more money in the interim, and everyone is happy and ready to open their pocketbooks for the DLC/s that will add to the grand finale. With hopefully a shiny GOTY to go with. (I personally feel very placated, thank you, Bioware. I appreciate the effort. And my wallet is having trouble keeping its flaps shut.)
What also surprised me too, is that they gave us EXACTLY what they we asked for. We got the Normandy pick-up, the LI goodbye, the refusal, the fighting on Earth, the resolution of what comes after. Every primary complaint was fixed - well, except Ziggy Starbrat, which can't be fixed without a huge overhaul. (But it's easy enough to add in hints for the future, isn't Bioware? 'So be it', indeed.)
Kasumi/Overlord/LotSB were released within a month of each other, with LotSB in July, 2010. Arrival didn't, ahem, arrive, until the end of March, 2011. If there is a final DLC planned (or even a final DLC that effects to current ending), it will be a long time coming. That's a good year-and-a-bit from the ME2 release to Arrival. Mid-next-year for final answers to be done and dusted? In the meantime, maybe we shouldn't keep throwing monkey excrement at each other to say IF SO AND SO DOESN'T HAPPEN BY THEN, I'M RIGHT. (...give it two years, then the slinging can start.)
And, look, at the end of the day, I could live with the ending/EC. It's terrible thematically, but I could live with it. The reason I babbled for ages today was not because of a need to put it in a metaphorical context, not because of an overzealous imagination, and not because of a feverous I-can't-deal-with-the-ending-otherwise religious desire (as said to some of the users on this board). It was because of the above TEXT that was added to the game, ESPECIALLY added to the EC, and it made me realise that hey, they're still trying to hint at something here. Even if there is no specific final DLC, they've certainly gone to a lot of extra and unneeded trouble for the IT theory. It leaves us with enough Epileptic Trees to fill the entire continent of Madagascar - with a spot for the Afro Circus on the side.
So, TL;DR version - Harbinger's up to something, the EC added too many titbits to the IT theory to be dead in the water, and while there may not be a BIG FINALE DLC at the end, there is a possibility that each DLC may influence the ending dialogue choices and give us answers to IT in the process. Phew.
Idon'twanttoplaythroughCronosandEarthagaindamnit.
Modifié par the_pie_box, 27 juin 2012 - 02:21 .
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but the child? The new civilization are like us and that's all?... It seems poor to this vast universe.
