55528 réponses à ce sujet

[MegumiAzusa]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Quick question about that helmet scene.

At high EMS the helmet scene only shows the helmet lying there with no one picking it up while low EMS has someone picking it up, is that how it is?

Yes with low EMS Coates finds it under rubble.

[MegumiAzusa]

Lord Luc1fer wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...



"... without the information they passed down we too would be threatened."
Information about peaceful coexistence between Organics and Synthetics?

I kinda take this to suggest they are some time in the middle of the next cycle, before the reapers arrive. This new cycle discovered the reaper threat in plenty of time, perhaps building many crucibles so that when the reapers arrive they will be easily defeated? Or at least, this is what the new stargazer believes

I would suggest picking on it in context, by quoting more. I did address that possibility.

[phoenixluigi]

i also came to the conclusion that new dlc will have an effect on the endings. and hypothisize that after all dlc have been released we will see shepard alive. in the true true true ending

[MegumiAzusa]

llbountyhunter wrote...

paxxton wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

paxxton wrote...

According to the post-EC IT Destroy and Rejection have the same effect.

I'm not so sure about that. They are about equal but not the same.

Yeah... refuse is pretty much shepard giving up. Its even worse than control or destroy. Because in those he is just mislead

In IT the Catalyst lies. Rejection isn't about Shepard cowardly sneaking away from taking responsibility but ceasing to play the Catalyst's deceptive game. It even may be so that Shepard deceives the Catalyst into thinking he is no longer of any use for the Reapers by acting in this way.

He's giving up on the mental battle. 

He cant just say "oh i want to keep fighting but not like this...."

Thats the same a giving up. Destroy is the only wy to keep resisting.

No. "Without choice we might as well be machines." and when you refuse "I fight for the right to choose our own fate." This is also exactly what the true Geth choose in ME2.

[paxxton]

llbountyhunter wrote...

paxxton wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

paxxton wrote...

According to the post-EC IT Destroy and Rejection have the same effect.

I'm not so sure about that. They are about equal but not the same.

Yeah... refuse is pretty much shepard giving up. Its even worse than control or destroy. Because in those he is just mislead

In IT the Catalyst lies. Rejection isn't about Shepard cowardly sneaking away from taking responsibility but ceasing to play the Catalyst's deceptive game. It even may be so that Shepard deceives the Catalyst into thinking he is no longer of any use for the Reapers by acting in this way.

He's giving up on the mental battle. 

He cant just say "oh i want to keep fighting but not like this...."


Thats the same a giving up. Destroy is the only wy to keep resisting .

No, it's not. But I've got an even better idea. What if the original ending was supposed to be taken at face-value and was simply "not well received" by the fans. After IT was further developed, BioWare decided that it fits nicely with the ending (HTL poll). So they changed their idea just a month ago when the EC was in the final stages of development so that the last scenes were considered internally (in-studio) as parts of a dream. Rejection is the way to break out of indoctrination.

Modifié par paxxton, 27 juin 2012 - 02:45 .

[v0rt3x22]

I'm wondering if the Helmet scene means anything for IT.

Couldn't have Shepard simply lost his helmet prior?

[Sammuthegreat]

the_pie_box wrote...

WARNING: THIS MAY BE AN IMMEDIATE TL;DR (it's re-heally long and contains babble), so you can skip to the end, or heck, even just skip it entirely! Give the old scroll function on the mouse a good workout.

*MEGA SNIP*


So, TL;DR version - Harbinger's up to something, the EC added too many titbits to the IT theory to be dead in the water, and while there may not be a BIG FINALE DLC at the end, there is a possibility that each DLC may influence the ending dialogue choices and give us answers to IT in the process.[/b] Phew.

Idon'twanttoplaythroughCronosandEarthagaindamnit.

Great stuff, thoroughly worth the read. Very entertaining also. I'm not getting my hopes up because... well, that's twice now that I've been disappointed. But I agree, it's a definite possibility that BioWare are trying to develop the ending over the course of several DLCs.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

paxxton wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

paxxton wrote...

According to the post-EC IT Destroy and Rejection have the same effect.

I'm not so sure about that. They are about equal but not the same.

Yeah... refuse is pretty much shepard giving up. Its even worse than control or destroy. Because in those he is just mislead

In IT the Catalyst lies. Rejection isn't about Shepard cowardly sneaking away from taking responsibility but ceasing to play the Catalyst's deceptive game. It even may be so that Shepard deceives the Catalyst into thinking he is no longer of any use for the Reapers by acting in this way.

He's giving up on the mental battle. 

He cant just say "oh i want to keep fighting but not like this...."

Thats the same a giving up. Destroy is the only wy to keep resisting.

No. "Without choice we might as well be machines." and when you refuse "I fight for the right to choose our own fate." This is also exactly what the true Geth choose in ME2.

Wait just a minute...

One of the lines revealed in regards to the Leviathan DLc is:

"With the Leviathan on our side we might actually have a chance against the Reapers."

Could it be that some time in the future after certain DLc a conventional victory will be possible when choosing rejection? You reject the Reapers and your fleet is powerful enough to defeat them without the use of the Crucible...

[llbountyhunter]

paxxton wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

paxxton wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

paxxton wrote...

According to the post-EC IT Destroy and Rejection have the same effect.

I'm not so sure about that. They are about equal but not the same.

Yeah... refuse is pretty much shepard giving up. Its even worse than control or destroy. Because in those he is just mislead

In IT the Catalyst lies. Rejection isn't about Shepard cowardly sneaking away from taking responsibility but ceasing to play the Catalyst's deceptive game. It even may be so that Shepard deceives the Catalyst into thinking he is no longer of any use for the Reapers by acting in this way.

He's giving up on the mental battle. 

He cant just say "oh i want to keep fighting but not like this...."


Thats the same a giving up. Destroy is the only wy to keep resisting .

No, it's not. But I've got an even better idea. What if the original ending was supposed to be taken at face-value and was simply "not well received" by the fans. After IT was further developed, BioWare decided that it fits nicely with the ending (HTL poll). So they changed their idea just a month ago when the EC was in the final stages of development so that the last scenes are considered internally (in-studio) as parts of a dream. Rejection is the way to break out of indoctrination.

You just completly changed topics......


But i still dont agree with your last part.

[Lord Luc1fer]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Lord Luc1fer wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...



"... without the information they passed down we too would be threatened."
Information about peaceful coexistence between Organics and Synthetics?

I kinda take this to suggest they are some time in the middle of the next cycle, before the reapers arrive. This new cycle discovered the reaper threat in plenty of time, perhaps building many crucibles so that when the reapers arrive they will be easily defeated? Or at least, this is what the new stargazer believes

I would suggest picking on it in context, by quoting more. I did address that possibility.

Sorry, should have not quoted the second line you actually wrote, I was referring only to the dialogue from the game, and what I think it could suggest

[MegumiAzusa]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

I'm wondering if the Helmet scene means anything for IT.

Couldn't have Shepard simply lost his helmet prior?

That is possible, but you don't have information to make anything out of it.

[EpyonX3]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

I believe the Leviathan is the result of what the Catalyst created in its first attempt of Synthesis.
"We have tried... a similar solution in the past, but it has always failed."

I don't know much about this Leviathan DLC but it's plausible.

[EpyonX3]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

I'm wondering if the Helmet scene means anything for IT.

Couldn't have Shepard simply lost his helmet prior?

That is possible, but you don't have information to make anything out of it.

It's not an N7 Helmet. No IT relation.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

EpyonX3 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

I'm wondering if the Helmet scene means anything for IT.

Couldn't have Shepard simply lost his helmet prior?

That is possible, but you don't have information to make anything out of it.

It's not an N7 Helmet. No IT relation.

Wow, what fantastic insightful asnwer.

What relation does that helmet then have?

[EpyonX3]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

I'm wondering if the Helmet scene means anything for IT.

Couldn't have Shepard simply lost his helmet prior?

That is possible, but you don't have information to make anything out of it.

It's not an N7 Helmet. No IT relation.

Wow, what fantastic insightful asnwer.

What relation does that helmet then have?

I've said this before. The helmet is in every epilouge scene. It represents the many who lost their lives in the war. Those that Shepard and the player never knew personally.

[llbountyhunter]

I dont like the idea of rejection having Shepard wake up or having a positive outcome.

Anyone can just shoot it kid, it requires no thought. I view it as Shepard just no wanting to fight anymore.... but who knows...

[paxxton]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

paxxton wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

paxxton wrote...

According to the post-EC IT Destroy and Rejection have the same effect.

I'm not so sure about that. They are about equal but not the same.

Yeah... refuse is pretty much shepard giving up. Its even worse than control or destroy. Because in those he is just mislead

In IT the Catalyst lies. Rejection isn't about Shepard cowardly sneaking away from taking responsibility but ceasing to play the Catalyst's deceptive game. It even may be so that Shepard deceives the Catalyst into thinking he is no longer of any use for the Reapers by acting in this way.

He's giving up on the mental battle. 

He cant just say "oh i want to keep fighting but not like this...."

Thats the same a giving up. Destroy is the only wy to keep resisting.

No. "Without choice we might as well be machines." and when you refuse "I fight for the right to choose our own fate." This is also exactly what the true Geth choose in ME2.

Wait just a minute...

One of the lines revealed in regards to the Leviathan DLc is:

"With the Leviathan on our side we might actually have a chance against the Reapers."

Could it be that some time in the future after certain DLc a conventional victory will be possible when choosing rejection? You reject the Reapers and your fleet is powerful enough to defeat them without the use of the Crucible...

Makes sense. In the current playthroughs we don't have Leviathan so the war is lost and hence accordingly Liara tells us that after Rejection. But with that DLC (and possibly other ones) she could say something else. Fits nicely with the approach BioWare took with MP (operations over several months). Why wouldn't they do SP like this? With each DLC the chances of winning the war become greater.

Modifié par paxxton, 27 juin 2012 - 02:55 .

[Sammuthegreat]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

Wait just a minute...

One of the lines revealed in regards to the Leviathan DLc is:

"With the Leviathan on our side we might actually have a chance against the Reapers."

Could it be that some time in the future after certain DLc a conventional victory will be possible when choosing rejection? You reject the Reapers and your fleet is powerful enough to defeat them without the use of the Crucible...

Dude, I just said that 

Modifié par Sammuthegreat, 27 juin 2012 - 02:56 .

[senshi420]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

paxxton wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

paxxton wrote...

According to the post-EC IT Destroy and Rejection have the same effect.

I'm not so sure about that. They are about equal but not the same.

Yeah... refuse is pretty much shepard giving up. Its even worse than control or destroy. Because in those he is just mislead

In IT the Catalyst lies. Rejection isn't about Shepard cowardly sneaking away from taking responsibility but ceasing to play the Catalyst's deceptive game. It even may be so that Shepard deceives the Catalyst into thinking he is no longer of any use for the Reapers by acting in this way.

He's giving up on the mental battle. 

He cant just say "oh i want to keep fighting but not like this...."

Thats the same a giving up. Destroy is the only wy to keep resisting.

No. "Without choice we might as well be machines." and when you refuse "I fight for the right to choose our own fate." This is also exactly what the true Geth choose in ME2.

Wait just a minute...

One of the lines revealed in regards to the Leviathan DLc is:

"With the Leviathan on our side we might actually have a chance against the Reapers."

Could it be that some time in the future after certain DLc a conventional victory will be possible when choosing rejection? You reject the Reapers and your fleet is powerful enough to defeat them without the use of the Crucible...

one can only hope for something this awesome, honestly, for a few seconds after reject, thats what i was expecting to see, even if it was a loss......then i got hololiara.

Modifié par senshi420, 27 juin 2012 - 02:59 .

[alayyubi]

I think rejection is an acknowledgement to IT, and trying to think positively, Bioware way of satisfying the pro-IT. If you assume the other RGB is only is Shepard's head, the rejection theory means that:

- Shepard is actually dying and the crucible run failed when the beam hits him
- The dream sequence is a test, and when Shepard rejected, he is dead, and the cycle continue
- It is a dark ending, but if I want to reject space magic, this is the most logical ending to take. Shepard dies, but his mind is free. The next cycle will fight the Reapers with the warnings left behind

I am not hoping for another DLC, and I think EC tries to satisfy everyone. Four distinct choices, and we should leave the rest to our imagination

[Tirian Thorn]

The stuff on Leviathan is VERY intriguing.
 
A reaper that killed another reaper then went off to build its own army.

If they can analyze it they might find weaknesses. Leviathan might fight with them, etc
.
The alliance may also develop counter-measures to indoctrination. There are a lot of possibilities.

Bioware definitely isn’t done with DLC. Hopefully, it isn’t all multiplayer.

Modifié par Tirian Thorn, 27 juin 2012 - 03:03 .

[nukedflounder]

I still think that the destroy option is great support for IT, and here's why?

One, in the shoot the kid option, we hear Harbingers voice and the whole so be it line. I think that to me is proof that Harby is controlling what happens. He is pissed at Shepard for refusing all of the options he gave. When Shepard chooses his own path, He looses his temper at the rejection of his great manipulation of Shepard.

During the control option, we all are to assume a higher state. In the way I played this just felt creepy. This is what all synthetics want isn't it? The Geth, EDI, to be like organics? They have told Shepard this. In the final push EDI tells Shepard that she finally feels alive, or something like that. The Reapers are synthetic, and they too want what the other synthetics wanted. To be more human. This is what Shepard knows about Synthetic life. This is the dream based on prior knowledge of her/his conversations with synthetics during the game. They are machines and want what organics have. A purpose for living. The unique experience that only having a soul can provide.

Control of the Reapers is the Illusive mans solution. I personally don't trust TIM, nor do I believe he was right all along. The final sequences after you pick control are, to me, what Shepard wanted to believe would happen if he/she chose this path. Again it felt creepy, to me. Shepard wants to believe that if he/she were in charge, then things would be done different under his/her reign. The dialouge at the end and speech sounds to similar to the star brat. That's how I played and viewed the control ending. I mean really Shepard is supposed to be an all powerful force throughout the Galaxy. Rather in his/her mind this would be the most palatable outcome of picking what TIM wanted. He/she wants everything to be happy, happy, happy if s/he were to try his solution.

Finally, my favorite, the Destroy option. This is how I played, a Soilder who understood sacrifice. Sorry EDI, and Geth. Organics first. That's only if you believe that the star kid is honest?, I don't. To me this is how Shepard would envision the eradication of the Reapers. War is brutal, sacrifices are made and when it's all over we rebuild. The scene after you choose are proof of a failed indoctrination attempt. Shepard made the sacrifice of his/her life for all organics. No grand statements about being anything other than what he/she did, die for the destruction and end of the war. In doing so he/she has hope for a future, albeit without him/her in it. In Shepards mind he/she witnessed the destruction of the crucible so he/she would view the world as still having a future. Plus the star brat hates this option. Finally the breath scene, enough has been said about this. Lastly the kid at the end, one more story. I took this to mean we are not done.

Too many questions not to make IT possible. Why didn't Harbinger shoot the Normandy? How is Hackett talking to Shepard? If its his/her radio, then why doesn't s/he touch her ear like all other scenes during the game?, s/he uses his/her radio during the talk with Hackett? Where did TIM come from?, he still just appears? Why doesn't the explosion start in Sol system? Why did my crew mate who was hurt just pop out in the end? They looked fine, what took a shower and cleaned up as your fleeing a huge explosion. Because in his/her mind wants the LI to survive. Lastly, the breath scene, what's that all about?

I guess I'll just have to wait until ME4 to find out how it ends. Until then the IT still holds water for me.

Sorry so long, and yet, I'm sure I forgot other things. This is why I, notice I said "I" here, still like IT. It leaves something to the imagination. Destroy let's me come to my own conclusion.

So to Bioware, I would purchase a another game with my Shepard. Why else did they say to hang on to our copy for a while,wouldn't delete my ME saves.

[EpyonX3]

Tirian Thorn wrote...

The stuff on Leviathan is VERY intriguing.
 
A reaper that killed another reaper then went off to build its own army.

If they can analyze it they might find weaknesses. Leviathan might fight with them, etc
.
The alliance may also develop counter-measures to indoctrination. There are a lot of possibilities.

Bioware definitely isn’t done with DLC. Hopefully, it isn’t all multiplayer.

What if Leviathan is the reaper we see flying around at the end. He doesn't attack any ships until you pick reject. In which case Leviathan gets taken over by the catalyst.

[dreman9999]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

paxxton wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

paxxton wrote...

According to the post-EC IT Destroy and Rejection have the same effect.

I'm not so sure about that. They are about equal but not the same.

Yeah... refuse is pretty much shepard giving up. Its even worse than control or destroy. Because in those he is just mislead

In IT the Catalyst lies. Rejection isn't about Shepard cowardly sneaking away from taking responsibility but ceasing to play the Catalyst's deceptive game. It even may be so that Shepard deceives the Catalyst into thinking he is no longer of any use for the Reapers by acting in this way.

He's giving up on the mental battle. 

He cant just say "oh i want to keep fighting but not like this...."

Thats the same a giving up. Destroy is the only wy to keep resisting.

No. "Without choice we might as well be machines." and when you refuse "I fight for the right to choose our own fate." This is also exactly what the true Geth choose in ME2.

And yet you and everyone you loved died. If you picked destory some people die and you kil the reapers...I don't see how this choice is worst.

[SubAstris]

llbountyhunter wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

So if support for IT was high then it would be true?

No, I was making a separate point, support for IT is being decimated by EC, surely you could even concede this?

Yes, but i dont see how that effects the validity of IT in any way.

Many are just tired of speculating. alot of us just wanted a definativr yes or no answer. And EC didnt do either. 

But most realised that EC was fruitless when it came to IT. They expected a Harbinger battle and got nothing