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[Soultaker08]

Uncle Jo wrote...


Never saw you here before. Or did you get some courage just after the EC and came here to feast on misery like many of your kind ?

And no, the IT was neither confirmed nor dismissed. Deal with it.

Oh.. and don't even bother to answer this post, it was the first and the last time I spoke to you.

Well this thread was your holy ground for months and i respected that , now there is no reason to hold back anymore, but your last sentence said all thx

Modifié par Soultaker08, 27 juin 2012 - 05:32 .

[Criddle]

Fingertrip wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Is it just me, or is it that the longer the conversation with the Catalyst drags on, the more distant Shepard sounds? He starts out sounding almost normal, but by the end it's like he's brain fried.

Yeah, I agree with this wholeheartedly.  Also, have you tried telling the Star-Brat that you won't use the Crucible when he tells you what Destroy does?  For a moment, Shepard sounded like he was going to snap out of it, and Star-Brat's voice took on an even greater echo than before.  Listen to this dialogue and tell me that it doesn't sound like Shepard is about to snap out of a dream/hallucination for a minute.  
 

"YOUR BELIEF IS NOT REQUIRED!"

Another point where the kid gets really pissed.

I´m also wondering why Starchild tries to convince you if you say that you won´t choose Destroy/Control, if the endings are literal, this makes no sense because the Starchild can continue the Cycle instead of being destroyed or controlled...But it seems that Starbrat dont want you to ignore it and reject the choices, this imho makes sense only with the Indoc Theory

[Sero303]

"your survival depends on stopping them, not in understanding them"

[byne]

Lord Goose wrote...

Considering they have indoctrinated agents, how could they not know?

They didn't know about Ilos either. They are not all-knowing.

Except, if you killed the rachni queen in ME1, and saved the fake rachni queen in ME3, the Reapers have verifiably had indoctrinated agents working on the Crucible, yet he still acts like he didnt know about it.

[Overdrive1493]

Casey Hudson has said:

"There are people who just outright rejected the whole concept of the endings, and wanted us to start from scratch and redo everything. And we can’t do that because that’s not our story"

If the main guy from the series is all but saying your theory is wrong, it might be time to give up hope.

[masster blaster]

You know I am TIRED of people saying IT is wrong get over it well if you look at all 4 endings it does not even look right.

Destroy Shepard is suppose to die but does not, and why does Hackitt not even mention Shepard and his brave sacrifice and isn't weird that Anderson's name is on there? So does that mean they found Anderson's body but not Shepard's really.

But wait there is more if you pick any ending the Reapers lose even if you have the lowest EMS they still do. IT all dose not add up if you refuse the cycle continues but everyone is dead, but in the next cycle they win conventionally even though that it was impossible to do so.

Synthesis peace love and happiness that's to much to ask for and EDI say's "I FEEL ALIVE" um that's some bull because if you are nice to her she says' " ONLY NOW DO I FEEL ALIVE AND THAT"S BECAUSE OF YOUR INFLUENCE.Also Husk become alive do you know how many Reaper focuses would not even like that they are alive and GUESS WHAT Synthesis does not mean there is peace because YOU DON"T CONTROL THE REAPERS IN Synthesis.

Control YOU BECOME A REAPER! Oh I will always remember.. Oh that's bull because Shepard becomes like a DICTATOR in Control because Shepard starts saying Power is through wisdom and some other crap that makes no sense that Our Shepard would think that why. And remember that Shepard's organic part is gone and know Shepard's synthetic part is know him/her.

You see in all endings the Reapers Lose no matter what ending you pick or how LOW the EMS is they still lose so in any case i say IT was intended because why does everyone think Shepard can't be Indoctrinated, it's because the PLAYER does not know what's happening at all so there.

[Overdrive1493]

byne wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

Considering they have indoctrinated agents, how could they not know?

They didn't know about Ilos either. They are not all-knowing.

Except, if you killed the rachni queen in ME1, and saved the fake rachni queen in ME3, the Reapers have verifiably had indoctrinated agents working on the Crucible, yet he still acts like he didnt know about it.

That changes nothing, except them finding out through her vs. Illusive Man

[EpyonX3]

Overdrive1493 wrote...

Casey Hudson has said:

"There are people who just outright rejected the whole concept of the endings, and wanted us to start from scratch and redo everything. And we can’t do that because that’s not our story"

If the main guy from the series is all but saying your theory is wrong, it might be time to give up hope.

Can you link to that quote. I'd like to read the context.

[Tirian Thorn]

Overdrive1493 wrote...

Casey Hudson has said:

"There are people who just outright rejected the whole concept of the endings, and wanted us to start from scratch and redo everything. And we can’t do that because that’s not our story"

If the main guy from the series is all but saying your theory is wrong, it might be time to give up hope.

Then it’s fanfiction. 


I’m fine with that.   Are you? Can’t we enjoy discussing this further? Or does our fun disrupt yours somehow?

[Lonsecia]

Personally I find the idea that Shep's dreaming/imagining it all a bit bizarre when only one ending has their voice. Not to speak for everyone, but my internal monologue is definitely familiar to me, and doesn't sound like anyone in particular (not even me as such as it's free from any effects of outside influences on the throat, mouth, etc (and to a lesser degree, puberty, though it's hardly a child's voice, more 'pure').
I'm not saying that everyone's inner voice is the same as mine, but I do believe most would raise eyebrows at another person's accent/inflections, etc suddenly broadcasting themselves in your head. Unless you're prone to hearing voices, I suppose.
That's only of course if the endings are supposed to be what Shepard's seeing. The issue of course is that really, the breath should be in first-person as that is clearly supposed to be from his/her viewpoint.

I do however think that if something is supposed to be indicative of a persons mental state, such things as POV are more crucial than anything else.
I don't -really- think the narratives are in Shepard's head, per se; rather that to me it makes them feel further disjointed. It should have been a unique narrator, or at least a disembodied voice like Ron Perlman in the Fallout series. and no, I never liked that with the DLC they got characters from it to narrate instead of hiring back Good ol' Ron.
again, it felt out of place to have the narrative change when in almost all cases it was a neutral narrator, instead of a bias one (which in all cases of a character from the story giving any input will feel like they are).

Of course adding a narrator now would be utterly pointless, and be as out of place as Grandpa Joe at the end.

[Arian Dynas]

Cecilia L wrote...

Overdrive1493 wrote...

Yep. IT is irrelevant and false. The EC has rendered it impossible.

Nope.
 
Even in the refuse ending with the time capsule there is still the possibility that that is just one of Liara's capsules that she hasn't bothered to dig up after the victory. It's totally circumstantial.

Or it might just be Shepard's mind extrapolating from the fact that he knows they exist and this one is a dying hallucination as Harbinger, finally frustrated by his indescision and defiance, crushes him completely.

Shepard can't make a descision, hard or otherwise, he is useless to them. He can only make a perfunctory gesture of defiance.

[Overdrive1493]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Overdrive1493 wrote...

Casey Hudson has said:

"There are people who just outright rejected the whole concept of the endings, and wanted us to start from scratch and redo everything. And we can’t do that because that’s not our story"

If the main guy from the series is all but saying your theory is wrong, it might be time to give up hope.

Can you link to that quote. I'd like to read the context.

http://www.escapistm...Please-Everyone 

[byne]

Criddle wrote...

I´m also wondering why Starchild tries to convince you if you say that you won´t choose Destroy/Control, if the endings are literal, this makes no sense because the Starchild can continue the Cycle instead of being destroyed or controlled...But it seems that Starbrat dont want you to ignore it and reject the choices, this imho makes sense only with the Indoc Theory

Seriously. I'm still wondering if he gets all mad if synthesis isnt an available choice, because if synthesis isnt available, he has no reason to get mad.

He's all "Destroying us wont stop the cycle of synthetics wiping out organics." and "I'm not looking forward to being replaced by you." and if you go "Ok, well I wont do either of those things then." he gets all angry and talks in a big boy voice?

[EpyonX3]

Criddle wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

ZerebusPrime wrote...

Is it just me, or is it that the longer the conversation with the Catalyst drags on, the more distant Shepard sounds? He starts out sounding almost normal, but by the end it's like he's brain fried.

Yeah, I agree with this wholeheartedly.  Also, have you tried telling the Star-Brat that you won't use the Crucible when he tells you what Destroy does?  For a moment, Shepard sounded like he was going to snap out of it, and Star-Brat's voice took on an even greater echo than before.  Listen to this dialogue and tell me that it doesn't sound like Shepard is about to snap out of a dream/hallucination for a minute.  
 

"YOUR BELIEF IS NOT REQUIRED!"

Another point where the kid gets really pissed.

I´m also wondering why Starchild tries to convince you if you say that you won´t choose Destroy/Control, if the endings are literal, this makes no sense because the Starchild can continue the Cycle instead of being destroyed or controlled...But it seems that Starbrat dont want you to ignore it and reject the choices, this imho makes sense only with the Indoc Theory

But the Catalyst has no problem continuing the cycle afterwards. His goals become your goals when the crucible docks. The "variables" change and he's expecting you to make a choice. When you refuse, it frustrates him because his variables tell him shepard is one way but he's acting differently. Not only that, Shepard's reactions are selfish and are not for the greater good of the galaxy, which is the catalysts sole purpose.

[Aurvant]

Overdrive1493 wrote...

Casey Hudson has said:

"There are people who just outright rejected the whole concept of the endings, and wanted us to start from scratch and redo everything. And we can’t do that because that’s not our story"

If the main guy from the series is all but saying your theory is wrong, it might be time to give up hope.

When everyone is telling you that "your story" has a bull**** ending, it might be time to give up the hubris.

[byne]

Overdrive1493 wrote...

byne wrote...

Lord Goose wrote...

Considering they have indoctrinated agents, how could they not know?

They didn't know about Ilos either. They are not all-knowing.

Except, if you killed the rachni queen in ME1, and saved the fake rachni queen in ME3, the Reapers have verifiably had indoctrinated agents working on the Crucible, yet he still acts like he didnt know about it.

That changes nothing, except them finding out through her vs. Illusive Man

Except that means they'd have known about it for quite a while, and could have taken steps to destroy it before it was completed, yet they dont.

[Arian Dynas]

Tirian Thorn wrote...

Overdrive1493 wrote...

Casey Hudson has said:

"There are people who just outright rejected the whole concept of the endings, and wanted us to start from scratch and redo everything. And we can’t do that because that’s not our story"

If the main guy from the series is all but saying your theory is wrong, it might be time to give up hope.

Then it’s fanfiction. 


I’m fine with that.   Are you? Can’t we enjoy discussing this further? Or does our fun disrupt yours somehow?

We weren't the ones asking them to re-do the endings, we never did, in fact in Indoctrination Theory, we loved them and accepted them as brilliant symbolism.

Yet I recall there being a massive HTL movement saying the entire ending and everything referencing the Star Child should be thrown out... hmmm, which does it sound like he was referencing here?

[LT123]

@BatmanTurian

Thanks for your long post.

That made a lot of sense, especially the bits about the Hero's Journey.

Destroy is the only choice that makes any sense thematically.

[Uncle Jo]

byne wrote...

Criddle wrote...

I´m also wondering why Starchild tries to convince you if you say that you won´t choose Destroy/Control, if the endings are literal, this makes no sense because the Starchild can continue the Cycle instead of being destroyed or controlled...But it seems that Starbrat dont want you to ignore it and reject the choices, this imho makes sense only with the Indoc Theory

Seriously. I'm still wondering if he gets all mad if synthesis isnt an available choice, because if synthesis isnt available, he has no reason to get mad.

He's all "Destroying us wont stop the cycle of synthetics wiping out organics." and "I'm not looking forward to being replaced by you." and if you go "Ok, well I wont do either of those things then." he gets all angry and talks in a big boy voice?

In my first playthrough I had only the control option and ~ 550 EMS. I told him to go to hell and he got mad. 

[byne]

Overdrive1493 wrote...

Casey Hudson has said:

"There are people who just outright rejected the whole concept of the endings, and wanted us to start from scratch and redo everything. And we can’t do that because that’s not our story"

If the main guy from the series is all but saying your theory is wrong, it might be time to give up hope.

You realize that that quote in no way says anything about IT, right?

That quote would fit whether IT or the literal endings were their intention. It doesnt prove anything one way or another.

[senshi420]

Overdrive1493 wrote...

Casey Hudson has said:

"There are people who just outright rejected the whole concept of the endings, and wanted us to start from scratch and redo everything. And we can’t do that because that’s not our story"

If the main guy from the series is all but saying your theory is wrong, it might be time to give up hope.

"Im getting tired of your disingenuous assertations"  

the thing is, that IT builds on whats already there. it requires no changes, no removals, just additions, its what makes it such phenominal headcannon. 
personally I subscribe to that headcannon until shown by the game otherwise.  
nothing in the EC has done that for me yet, if anything there are re-enforcing elements in there.
Im seriously wondering how many trolls just came here and started trolling instead of playing the game itself. 

[BatmanTurian]

LT123 wrote...

@BatmanTurian

Thanks for your long post.

That made a lot of sense, especially the bits about the Hero's Journey.

Destroy is the only choice that makes any sense thematically.

Thank you for your confirmation that someone read it. I thought maybe it might get lost in all of this illogical arguing.

[HellishFiend]

  Hey guys what's going on in here?


Oh, I see. Hmm. Maybe today is a good day to get back into playing some MP...

[paxxton]

The message after Stargazer scene congratulates the player on ending the Reaper threat. But choosing Reject leaves the war going on. Am I missing something here?

Modifié par paxxton, 27 juin 2012 - 05:46 .

[Tirian Thorn]

byne wrote...

Overdrive1493 wrote...

Casey Hudson has said:

"There are people who just outright rejected the whole concept of the endings, and wanted us to start from scratch and redo everything. And we can’t do that because that’s not our story"

If the main guy from the series is all but saying your theory is wrong, it might be time to give up hope.

You realize that that quote in no way says anything about IT, right?

That quote would fit whether IT or the literal endings were their intention. It doesnt prove anything one way or another.

Some people just need for the IT crowd to be wrong - it's the only way they can have fun... 

But why does our fun have to negatively affect their fun?  It is a game after-all, it's supposed to be fun. 

Sadly, trolls have "fun" mocking other people for no reason. 

I'm all for the discussion, but after a while I get tired of constantly defending the theory and would just like to deal with the like-minded only for a bit.