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[BatmanTurian]

suprarj wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

suprarj wrote...

Tirian Thorn wrote...

I'll say it again:

Let us have our fanfaction. 

Does it really impact your fun that we believe differently? 

As long as you admit that it's fan fiction, I don't think anyone would have a problem with it.  My issue with the IT crowd was always that it contradicted the facts that were on the screen and had a religious zealot type following (i.e. "How do you know that he's really in the Citadel?")  I choose to look at what is on the screen and accept that.  I have no problem with you doing otherwise as long as you freely admit that's what you're doing.  By saying that your version is still correct with now an entire DLC to prove otherwise, you insult those who choose to accept what was on the screen.

To me, IT is similar to that guy who wrote a novel-length blog post about the endings of the Sopranos to "prove" that Tony died.  Sure, there are some interesting connections/imagery and it's fun to overanalyze.  However, the EC was the equivalent of David Chase saying "Tony lives."

okay, we get it. shut up. you're being counter-productive and just repeating yourself now.

I'm sorry you feel that way but how am I being counter productive?  That was my first post today so I wasn't "repeating" myself.  I think it's a fair point: as long as you admit that you're exchanging rationality for fan fic, we have no problems.

I have cited some instances where we may still be right. So IT is not dead nor fan fic. You never believed in it anyway so what we think shouldn't matter to you unless you just want to gloat, which is again, counter-productive.

[byne]

suprarj wrote...


I'm sorry you feel that way but how am I being counter productive?  That was my first post today so I wasn't "repeating" myself.  I think it's a fair point: as long as you admit that you're exchanging rationality for fan fic, we have no problems.

Well then I guess we'll always have problems. If somehow having a different interpretion of a video game ending means we're abandoning rationality, then I guess everyone who has ever interpreted anything in a way differently than Master of Interpretation Suprarj has is just irrational.

If you interpret the meaning of a work of art in a way other than Master Suprarj, its just fanfiction.

[Uncle Jo]

BatmanTurian wrote...

The only reason he believes the synthetics turning on organics logic is because he himself turned on his organic creators. He says so himself. He cites himself as the only proof.

He also stated the synthetics-organics relations always lead to conflict though. Anyways it's for me a false debate, I've brockered peace between the Geth and Quarians and learned that synthetics can evolve and cooperate with organics. Even if it's not always the case it's still possible, hence introducing a flaw in the kid's insane logic.

That's why I can't make a choice based on a false assumption. Am I talking about the ending taken at face-value ?

[naddaya]

BatmanTurian wrote...

byne wrote...

Does femshep even yell Steve? In all my playthroughs I've never heard her yell it, I just see a subtitle telling me she has done so. Even though I have subtitles turned off.

That same bug happened to me too. Even though it had never happened before the EC...

Yep, I played with a femshep. She yelled.

[gunslinger_ruiz]

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Huh, I was looking in that low EMS Destroy, and the helmet they find isn't Shepard's. It's a generic Alliance Marine helmet. Also, I'm replaying the endings again, and I'm fairly certain that the helmet that the Keeper picks up on the Citadel is NOT a generic Alliance Marine helmet. I don't see the Alliance symbol on it. Could it be Shepard's helmet?

Huh, I haven't seen the keeper in that ending yet.
Also this probably isn't nearly as interesting, but it seems like Mr. Vega in the Synthesis ending isn't having any of glowy eyes crap. He's still got the new glowy skin, though.

Hm? In my high ems destroy ending it looked like an alliance helmet to me, had the A symbol on it...unless that was some kind of battle scare or something. Thought it was Shepard's at first till I saw the mark.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

MaximizedAction wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

 Guys - how many of you really believe that the Citadel is the home of the Catalyst? 
I know he says it - but people are seriously believing that. 

It doesn't seem to make sense to me......gosh....am I really going to have to take the entire game literally?

Deciding if you trust the Catalyst or not, with the EC, has become the most central question for me. What a wonderful experience that was in the decision chamber! Love it!

If the catalyst was truly in control of the citadel to a point where he could shut of the Crucible beam (as seen in rejection) then what is stopping him from opening the Relay in ME1 and allowing the Reapers through? Why even have the keepers as the center fo the signal for opening the Reapers if you have a hyper AI controlling the station?! Why didnt he help Sovereign?!

It is things like that which make me hang on to IT. The litteral ending just raises too many questions.

[paxxton]

LOL. I just made a sandwich with some cheese and 3 new pages popped up.

[BatmanTurian]

Trollgunner wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

 Guys - how many of you really believe that the Citadel is the home of the Catalyst? 
I know he says it - but people are seriously believing that. 

It doesn't seem to make sense to me......gosh....am I really going to have to take the entire game literally?

Message to a random Citadel commoner : "Starbrat watching you everyday living on the citadel! And all keeprs listen only him! Mwahahaha. . . oh, also he cross-dresses as holographic asari guide Alvine."  ( I hope i spelled her name right, cuz i forgot it >.> )

Is this where I start a new meme that says in Control, if you live on the citadel, Shep is watching you do things to yourself in the dark?

[TJBartlemus]

My take on the Catalyst/Starchild/Harbinchild -

He is a rogue AI set on circular logic. Proof: He was created to solve the problem of synthetics destroying organics. His solution was to create synthetics to protect organics by killing them so that synthetics don't kill organics. (circular logic) So he creates the first reapers out of his creators to their dismay. Thus the creation of they cycle by circular logic.

What he is specifically is the combination of all the knowledge and essence of all those he has reaped but the Rogue AI portion of him controls it all.

Shepard is the means of changing the cycle, and ending it. The AI sees this. This is why he want's Shepard in ME2. He sees the potential in Shepard, because Shepard has been the most recent to thwart his attempts at the cycle. He tries to obtain Shepard to control him. Shortly he recognises that obtaining Shepard is not possible, so instead he trys to indoctrinate in a more subtle way. This as well fails. So when the Crucible appears and shows him the possibilities, he instead with the amount of indoctrination he has had in Shepard, tries to influence Shepard into making a choice that  would help the Reapers.

[MaximizedAction]

Raistlin Majare 1992 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

 Guys - how many of you really believe that the Citadel is the home of the Catalyst? 
I know he says it - but people are seriously believing that. 

It doesn't seem to make sense to me......gosh....am I really going to have to take the entire game literally?

Deciding if you trust the Catalyst or not, with the EC, has become the most central question for me. What a wonderful experience that was in the decision chamber! Love it!

If the catalyst was truly in control of the citadel to a point where he could shut of the Crucible beam (as seen in rejection) then what is stopping him from opening the Relay in ME1 and allowing the Reapers through? Why even have the keepers as the center fo the signal for opening the Reapers if you have a hyper AI controlling the station?! Why didnt he help Sovereign?!

It is things like that which make me hang on to IT. The litteral ending just raises too many questions.

Hm, good point.

[BatmanTurian]

Uncle Jo wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

The only reason he believes the synthetics turning on organics logic is because he himself turned on his organic creators. He says so himself. He cites himself as the only proof.

He also stated the synthetics-organics relations always lead to conflict though. Anyways it's for me a false debate, I've brockered peace between the Geth and Quarians and learned that synthetics can evolve and cooperate with organics. Even if it's not always the case it's still possible, hence introducing a flaw in the kid's insane logic.

That's why I can't make a choice based on a false assumption. Am I talking about the ending taken at face-value ?

At this point, the decision chamber and most of the citadel seems to be a waking nightmare. So it's a blend of face value and IT. And the Developers purposefully made it hard to distinguish which one is which anywhere in that sequence of events.

[MaximizedAction]

paxxton wrote...

LOL. I just made a sandwich with some cheese and 3 new pages popped up.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to when it calmed down a bit, so we could have discussions in the same manner as before the EC release...

[masster blaster]

But you know what's funny Shepard Should not be a Legend if Shepard picked Control, or Synthesis because for 1 the Reapers stay in those two endings and you know what's funny the Stargazer never mentioned the Reapers in the synthesis ending nor in the Control ending and like I said should be in the next cycle because they should just be there.

Also the statement that Michale Gamble said that the next cycle uses the crucible so ya the Refuse ending does supports IT because for one Liara said that the CRUCIBLE did not work, but in the next cycle it did, which is funny because I think they picked Destroy or something else because you clearly don't see they don't include the Reapers or any race in any of the Stargazer cut scene.

[Daryslash]

Why EXACTLY did they recommend we load a save game from before the Cerberus Base? The only difference from before is a moment before entering the beam, when you tell your squadmates to get out, so we could just have loaded a game from before the beam run and saved a lot of time watching the same scenes we watched a thousand times and killing cerberus operatives and reapers forces we were tired of killing.

So yeah, why make us go through all that again? Any ideas, anyone?

Modifié par Daryslash, 27 juin 2012 - 08:09 .

[Andromidius]

MaximizedAction wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Did anyone notice that if your teammates survive the run to the beam, they are seriously beaten up and bleeding but in a few minutes later they look better than ever. IT or is Chawkwas magic??

Yep, noticed it. Could be Chawkwas, since she restored Garrus in ME2 similarly well. After all, the squad didn't even seem to suffer from that big injuries.

Indeed.  Was the weakest hand waving I've ever seen - they didn't even just have the Normandy arriving to pick up survivors AFTER Harbinger leaves - that has to be obviously, no-one can be that thick while writing a script can they?

[suprarj]

byne wrote...

suprarj wrote...


I'm sorry you feel that way but how am I being counter productive?  That was my first post today so I wasn't "repeating" myself.  I think it's a fair point: as long as you admit that you're exchanging rationality for fan fic, we have no problems.

Well then I guess we'll always have problems. If somehow having a different interpretion of a video game ending means we're abandoning rationality, then I guess everyone who has ever interpreted anything in a way differently than Master of Interpretation Suprarj has is just irrational.

If you interpret the meaning of a work of art in a way other than Master Suprarj, its just fanfiction.

I don't want to have a problem with you, in fact I have no problem with you electing to believe in the IT.  Every new change in the EC as well as the original ending (and previous two games) supported the fact that Bioware was playing fair with its audience with a reliable "omniscient" narrator.  The IT would mean that Bioware decided to scrap that in favor of an "unreliable narrator" (look it up, it's a thing) telling the story.  It also means that the original game as well as these additional endings were all subterfuge for the "real" story.  To me, that seems too far fetched.  I choose to take Bioware and the games at face value, especially since end-game choice and option is now spelled out in excruciating detail. 

[BatmanTurian]

TJBartlemus wrote...

My take on the Catalyst/Starchild/Harbinchild -

He is a rogue AI set on circular logic. Proof: He was created to solve the problem of synthetics destroying organics. His solution was to create synthetics to protect organics by killing them so that synthetics don't kill organics. (circular logic) So he creates the first reapers out of his creators to their dismay. Thus the creation of they cycle by circular logic.

What he is specifically is the combination of all the knowledge and essence of all those he has reaped but the Rogue AI portion of him controls it all.

Shepard is the means of changing the cycle, and ending it. The AI sees this. This is why he want's Shepard in ME2. He sees the potential in Shepard, because Shepard has been the most recent to thwart his attempts at the cycle. He tries to obtain Shepard to control him. Shortly he recognises that obtaining Shepard is not possible, so instead he trys to indoctrinate in a more subtle way. This as well fails. So when the Crucible appears and shows him the possibilities, he instead with the amount of indoctrination he has had in Shepard, tries to influence Shepard into making a choice that  would help the Reapers.

These are my thoughts exactly to a tee!

[Trollgunner]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Trollgunner wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

 Guys - how many of you really believe that the Citadel is the home of the Catalyst? 
I know he says it - but people are seriously believing that. 

It doesn't seem to make sense to me......gosh....am I really going to have to take the entire game literally?

Message to a random Citadel commoner : "Starbrat watching you everyday living on the citadel! And all keeprs listen only him! Mwahahaha. . . oh, also he cross-dresses as holographic asari guide Alvine."  ( I hope i spelled her name right, cuz i forgot it >.> )

Is this where I start a new meme that says in Control, if you live on the citadel, Shep is watching you do things to yourself in the dark?

You sure do.  'Shepard-reaper: I'm watching you peeeeeee...."

[Ghrelt]

I no longer believe that IT was Bioware's intention. That being said, even with the EC and the different endings based on your choices, I still think IT is plausible. I still think Destroy is the best option because Control is temporary (IMO) and Synthesis would eventually lead to overpopulation and galactic war.

That's just my headcanon. I'm glad that the EC made it so many people with different ideas could still get an ending that they liked.

[masster blaster]

masster blaster wrote...

Um I know this is old but didn't the run to the Conduit reminded you of Illos.

Edit  ME3 EC:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXlFF3C6kEo#t=03m13s
you may have to rewind it a bit but you will see my point.

ME1:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeMKLDdNqj0#t=01m11s

[MaximizedAction]

Andromidius wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Did anyone notice that if your teammates survive the run to the beam, they are seriously beaten up and bleeding but in a few minutes later they look better than ever. IT or is Chawkwas magic??

Yep, noticed it. Could be Chawkwas, since she restored Garrus in ME2 similarly well. After all, the squad didn't even seem to suffer from that big injuries.

Indeed.  Was the weakest hand waving I've ever seen - they didn't even just have the Normandy arriving to pick up survivors AFTER Harbinger leaves - that has to be obviously, no-one can be that thick while writing a script can they?

yeah, that shot was cool: Le Normandy just derping around while Harbinger is idling in the background. But then again, maybe that was the Catalyst wanting Shepard to reach the beam.

[v0rt3x22]

Sorry guys if this has already been discussed - I was mainly AFK for the last 20 pages or so - but someone pitched an interesting idea:

The fact that Shepard died in ME2 - and was resurrected by Cerb who is led by TIM (dunno if he was indoctrinated already at that time) - but it opens a new theory:

During Cerb base in ME3 - Shepard discusses his revival and says: ""Maybe I'm just an advanced VI that thinks it's Commander Shepard"

I find this pretty interesting - and I forgot about this - but together with the new audio that we hear when Shepard falls through the portal (the defib-thingy) - it does seem very interesting...

Dunno if you discussed this before,

[BatmanTurian]

Daryslash wrote...

Why EXACTLY did they recommend we load a save game from before the Cerberus Base? The only difference from before is a moment before entering the beam, when you tell your squadmates to get out, so we could just have loaded a game from before the beam run and saved a lot of time watching the same scenes we watched a thousand times and killing cerberus operatives and reapers forces we were tired of killing.

So yeah, why make us go through all that again? Any ideas, anyone?

I saw A LOT of new differences that actually made the endings way better. I think Bioware abandoned the Hero's Journey trope at the last minute, but the endings were more diverse and much more palatable.

[suprarj]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Sorry guys if this has already been discussed - I was mainly AFK for the last 20 pages or so - but someone pitched an interesting idea:

The fact that Shepard died in ME2 - and was resurrected by Cerb who is led by TIM (dunno if he was indoctrinated already at that time) - but it opens a new theory:

During Cerb base in ME3 - Shepard discusses his revival and says: ""Maybe I'm just an advanced VI that thinks it's Commander Shepard"

I find this pretty interesting - and I forgot about this - but together with the new audio that we hear when Shepard falls through the portal (the defib-thingy) - it does seem very interesting...

Dunno if you discussed this before,

Oh snap, Indoctri-resur-ception Theory in the house!

[Dwailing]

Wait, scratch this, it must be a glitch.  Forget I said anything.

Modifié par Dwailing, 27 juin 2012 - 08:17 .