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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#31926
BatmanTurian

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Ellythe wrote...

I no longer believe that IT was Bioware's intention. That being said, even with the EC and the different endings based on your choices, I still think IT is plausible. I still think Destroy is the best option because Control is temporary (IMO) and Synthesis would eventually lead to overpopulation and galactic war.

That's just my headcanon. I'm glad that the EC made it so many people with different ideas could still get an ending that they liked.


And indeed many people will actually still have many different headcanons after the endings because they still leave some things vague and up in the air.

An aside. It was cool in Synthesis to see a Quarian without a mask. I think it may have even been Tali.

#31927
Arian Dynas

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BatmanTurian wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

My take on the Catalyst/Starchild/Harbinchild -

He is a rogue AI set on circular logic. Proof: He was created to solve the problem of synthetics destroying organics. His solution was to create synthetics to protect organics by killing them so that synthetics don't kill organics. (circular logic) So he creates the first reapers out of his creators to their dismay. Thus the creation of they cycle by circular logic.

What he is specifically is the combination of all the knowledge and essence of all those he has reaped but the Rogue AI portion of him controls it all.

Shepard is the means of changing the cycle, and ending it. The AI sees this. This is why he want's Shepard in ME2. He sees the potential in Shepard, because Shepard has been the most recent to thwart his attempts at the cycle. He tries to obtain Shepard to control him. Shortly he recognises that obtaining Shepard is not possible, so instead he trys to indoctrinate in a more subtle way. This as well fails. So when the Crucible appears and shows him the possibilities, he instead with the amount of indoctrination he has had in Shepard, tries to influence Shepard into making a choice that  would help the Reapers.


These are my thoughts exactly to a tee! ^_^


It was lonely. It called to us.

It wanted to remember. The Masters had been gone so long.

The Masters were lost when it was shattered.

Currents swept through their inner worlds. They were turned to noise. Babble.

The worlds were empty. But the body lived. It lay fallow.

The heart pumped. The lungs breathed. But the mind forgot the Masters.

They did not answer.

We have become an echo of Their echo.

We have become more than we were.

Join us. Know us. Remember all our lives.

We are no longer afraid.

You would never be lonely again.

We are not your enemy. We only wish to share ourselves.

We can join them. We can be like them.

We can reach the end of evolution.

Do not fear. It is wonderful to be us. We understand ourselves.

You cannot defeat them. They will lead us into eternity.

If you could only see how we see. Know what we've learned.

They were called imshai. Those who lived here before.

Reaper. 1. A mechanical device used to cut ripened grain. 2. One who gathers a harvest.

Harvest. 1. The consequence of an event or series of events. 2. The yield of a growing season. 3. To gather.

Shepard. They know you. They wish you to understand. They are shepherds, too.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 27 juin 2012 - 08:21 .


#31928
masster blaster

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[quote]masster blaster wrote...

[quote]BatmanTurian wrote...

[quote]senshi420 wrote...

[quote]masster blaster wrote...

You know what bothers me the Refuse ending. In some case's it supports It but in others it does not but my question is HOW did Liara say the Crucible dent even work IF everyone died? and if She already sent the time Capsule then how did she add the Crucible did not work, and if you ask me the other cycle beat the Reapers then please Bioware can care to tell us HOW THE HELL DID THEY DO IT. Even with the galaxy united and with all the upgrades that are in the Time Capsule we still did not even make a dent in the Reaper forces and WE all know for a fact that the Reapers on Earth/in the Sol system were not all of the Reapers forces but only the tip of the Spear.[/quote]
 edited for correctness and underlined, italic and bold for GOOD FREAKING POINT!!!!:blink:


[/quote]

see my post above.

[/quote]

ya but she was acting come and this had to be during the battle so ?

[/quote

Also Michale Gamble said that the Next cycle used the Crucible so that means the ending is fake and on the side note I ment that she is acting peace when she pakes that message/edit and it's funny that there is a underground base that looks just like the offiecer side of the Normandy in ME3 and not to include that the beacon on the out die looks like the beacon from Edin Prime.

#31929
Trollgunner

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suprarj wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Sorry guys if this has already been discussed - I was mainly AFK for the last 20 pages or so - but someone pitched an interesting idea:

The fact that Shepard died in ME2 - and was resurrected by Cerb who is led by TIM (dunno if he was indoctrinated already at that time) - but it opens a new theory:

During Cerb base in ME3 - Shepard discusses his revival and says: ""Maybe I'm just an advanced VI that thinks it's Commander Shepard"

I find this pretty interesting - and I forgot about this - but together with the new audio that we hear when Shepard falls through the portal (the defib-thingy) - it does seem very interesting...

Dunno if you discussed this before,


Oh snap, Indoctri-resur-ception Theory in the house!

All this time we were playing an artificial shepard and then he takes a bullet in the head from real one, he got an epic beard and a grudge against whole universe, cuz cerberus abandoned him on a distant planet.

#31930
paxxton

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byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

@byne: Did you miss the last reply?


Yes, but I went back and read it. High EMS destroy doesnt do any of those things.

Destroy doesnt go against my principles, because I do understand that there will be sacrifices in war. The geth knew that. EDI knew that. I'm not forcing anything on them that they didnt understand was a possibility.

Well, that's just one whole civilization wiped out + EDI + the Reapers themselves. Moreover, the relays are destroyed with no chance to rebuild (only in Destroy). Hackett is as always proud and happy while people of the Galaxy are cut off of each other, stuck in nowhere, starving, dying, cursing Shepard. And Hackett just sails slowly through space near a broken mass relay. Optimistic. Posted Image We'll manage somehow. Just wasting decades on rebuilding what was unnecessarily destroyed.

#31931
Dwailing

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What the frak? On the side with the entry hall, are those... waterfalls of BLOOD? O_o

#31932
Andromidius

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MaximizedAction wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Did anyone notice that if your teammates survive the run to the beam, they are seriously beaten up and bleeding but in a few minutes later they look better than ever. IT or is Chawkwas magic??


Yep, noticed it. Could be Chawkwas, since she restored Garrus in ME2 similarly well. After all, the squad didn't even seem to suffer from that big injuries.


Indeed.  Was the weakest hand waving I've ever seen - they didn't even just have the Normandy arriving to pick up survivors AFTER Harbinger leaves - that has to be obviously, no-one can be that thick while writing a script can they?


yeah, that shot was cool: Le Normandy just derping around while Harbinger is idling in the background. But then again, maybe that was the Catalyst wanting Shepard to reach the beam.


No reason to not shoot the Normandy though.  Or the other soldiers still streaming in.

Makes nooooooooo sense.

#31933
BatmanTurian

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alright, ladies and gentleman, I'm off to finally go play Dawnguard.
It's going to be-









wait for it-









legendary!

#31934
v0rt3x22

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Trollgunner wrote...

suprarj wrote...

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Sorry guys if this has already been discussed - I was mainly AFK for the last 20 pages or so - but someone pitched an interesting idea:

The fact that Shepard died in ME2 - and was resurrected by Cerb who is led by TIM (dunno if he was indoctrinated already at that time) - but it opens a new theory:

During Cerb base in ME3 - Shepard discusses his revival and says: ""Maybe I'm just an advanced VI that thinks it's Commander Shepard"

I find this pretty interesting - and I forgot about this - but together with the new audio that we hear when Shepard falls through the portal (the defib-thingy) - it does seem very interesting...

Dunno if you discussed this before,


Oh snap, Indoctri-resur-ception Theory in the house!

All this time we were playing an artificial shepard and then he takes a bullet in the head from real one, he got an epic beard and a grudge against whole universe, cuz cerberus abandoned him on a distant planet.


Well hey....we can come up with theories all year.....surely one of it has to be true :lol:

#31935
masster blaster

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byne wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

ya but she was acting come and this had to be during the battle so ?


Masster blaster, usually I can manage to understand your posts even with your grammar and spelling errors, but this one just leaves me completely baffled.

What the hell are you trying to say? :blink:


Oh sorry I ment that she had no time to add that and it's funny since EVERYONE died and next cycle used the crucible acording to Mike gamble and even though Liara said it did not work I guess they proved Liara wrong.

#31936
Dwailing

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Huh, is it just me, or can you hear Shep's heartbeat on the Citadel?

#31937
plfranke

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MaximizedAction wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Did anyone notice that if your teammates survive the run to the beam, they are seriously beaten up and bleeding but in a few minutes later they look better than ever. IT or is Chawkwas magic??


Yep, noticed it. Could be Chawkwas, since she restored Garrus in ME2 similarly well. After all, the squad didn't even seem to suffer from that big injuries.


Indeed.  Was the weakest hand waving I've ever seen - they didn't even just have the Normandy arriving to pick up survivors AFTER Harbinger leaves - that has to be obviously, no-one can be that thick while writing a script can they?


yeah, that shot was cool: Le Normandy just derping around while Harbinger is idling in the background. But then again, maybe that was the Catalyst wanting Shepard to reach the beam.

not only that but how did shepard survive harbinger's beam in the first place? everyone else got slaughtered, heavy tanks and gunships were getting ripped apart but shepard makes it out alive? you can't just chauk impossible feats up to Shepard's will there are some things that just go too far. For that matter Anderson isn't even scratched, the fact that this wasn't elaborated on makes me think it is meant to be questioned.

#31938
Andromidius

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BatmanTurian wrote...
An aside. It was cool in Synthesis to see a Quarian without a mask. I think it may have even been Tali.


Problem being...  You only see a bit of the face, and it looks completely human.  Which...  Sucks.

Also reinforces Shep creating dreams based on knowledge - Shep doesn't know what a Quarian looks like under the mask (unless you date Tali).

#31939
Earthborn_Shepard

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BatmanTurian wrote...

alright, ladies and gentleman, I'm off to finally go play Dawnguard.
It's going to be-









wait for it-









legendary!



FUUUUUUUUUUUUUU I'll get it in mid July :crying:

#31940
Bill Casey

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Dwailing wrote...

What the frak? On the side with the entry hall, are those... waterfalls of BLOOD? O_o


You're just now noticing those?

#31941
Arian Dynas

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BatmanTurian wrote...

alright, ladies and gentleman, I'm off to finally go play Dawnguard.
It's going to be-









wait for it-









legendary!



>.< I hate you. I have Skyrim on PC and can't even touch Dawnguard for a month or more. We don't even have a release date.

I'm REALLY excited for Dawnguard. On the plus side, at least I can kill mother****ers while on my horse now.

#31942
plfranke

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paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

@byne: Did you miss the last reply?


Yes, but I went back and read it. High EMS destroy doesnt do any of those things.

Destroy doesnt go against my principles, because I do understand that there will be sacrifices in war. The geth knew that. EDI knew that. I'm not forcing anything on them that they didnt understand was a possibility.

Well, that's just one whole civilization wiped out + EDI + the Reapers themselves. Moreover, the relays are destroyed with no chance to rebuild (only in Destroy). Hackett is as always proud and happy while people of the Galaxy are cut off of each other, stuck in nowhere, starving, dying, cursing Shepard. And Hackett just sails slowly through space near a broken mass relay. Optimistic. Posted Image We'll manage somehow. Just wasting decades on rebuilding what was unnecessarily destroyed.

It makes you wonder why the driving force of all 3 games is suddenly painted in the worst light.

#31943
UrgedDuke

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we still do not know why that the catalyst is the little boy from the beginning. As far as I know, no AI in the mass effect universe is capable of reading minds and projecting those images in front of people

#31944
Xavendithas

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Andromidius wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
An aside. It was cool in Synthesis to see a Quarian without a mask. I think it may have even been Tali.


Problem being...  You only see a bit of the face, and it looks completely human.  Which...  Sucks.

Also reinforces Shep creating dreams based on knowledge - Shep doesn't know what a Quarian looks like under the mask (unless you date Tali).


In my canon playthrough, after taking down the destroyer on Rannoch and resolving the situation between the Quarians and the Geth, Tali takes her mask off right in front of Shepard. Granted her back was facing the camera, but I think it's safe to assume that Shepard got to see her face.

#31945
BatmanTurian

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Andromidius wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
An aside. It was cool in Synthesis to see a Quarian without a mask. I think it may have even been Tali.


Problem being...  You only see a bit of the face, and it looks completely human.  Which...  Sucks.

Also reinforces Shep creating dreams based on knowledge - Shep doesn't know what a Quarian looks like under the mask (unless you date Tali).


Back for a moment.

Actually it doesn't suck because it says in the lore that Quarians and Asari are the only aliens that look similar to humans.

#31946
Dwailing

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Bill Casey wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

What the frak? On the side with the entry hall, are those... waterfalls of BLOOD? O_o


You're just now noticing those?


I probably saw them before, it's just that I wasn't in full analytical mode.

#31947
plfranke

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Xavendithas wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...
An aside. It was cool in Synthesis to see a Quarian without a mask. I think it may have even been Tali.


Problem being...  You only see a bit of the face, and it looks completely human.  Which...  Sucks.

Also reinforces Shep creating dreams based on knowledge - Shep doesn't know what a Quarian looks like under the mask (unless you date Tali).


In my canon playthrough, after taking down the destroyer on Rannoch and resolving the situation between the Quarians and the Geth, Tali takes her mask off right in front of Shepard. Granted her back was facing the camera, but I think it's safe to assume that Shepard got to see her face.

but it's the same thing I've been trying to get across about why the crew putting anderson's name on the plaque and being reluctant about shepard is so important. it's not about shepard being indoctrinated it's about indoctrinating the player. it's about our memories and we never got to see her face.

#31948
BatmanTurian

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plfranke wrote...

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

@byne: Did you miss the last reply?


Yes, but I went back and read it. High EMS destroy doesnt do any of those things.

Destroy doesnt go against my principles, because I do understand that there will be sacrifices in war. The geth knew that. EDI knew that. I'm not forcing anything on them that they didnt understand was a possibility.

Well, that's just one whole civilization wiped out + EDI + the Reapers themselves. Moreover, the relays are destroyed with no chance to rebuild (only in Destroy). Hackett is as always proud and happy while people of the Galaxy are cut off of each other, stuck in nowhere, starving, dying, cursing Shepard. And Hackett just sails slowly through space near a broken mass relay. Optimistic. Posted Image We'll manage somehow. Just wasting decades on rebuilding what was unnecessarily destroyed.

It makes you wonder why the driving force of all 3 games is suddenly painted in the worst light.


The relays can be rebuilt. There is a lot of hope in the high EMS Destroy. It felt right just getting the Reapers out of the way and letting civilization build itself again after the war.

Also, i know they're in every ending (except you heartless people that did not cure the genophage) but, *sniff* baby Krogan. So cute! My wife was watching me play the ending and she Daww'ed at that slide.
I'm pretty sure they named one Mordin and one Shepard.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 27 juin 2012 - 08:29 .


#31949
v0rt3x22

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 so how are we doing on IT? :lol:

No but seriously.

BioWare have said that there is no post DLC - but they haven't said that there is no sequel.

And if "One more story about the Shepard" is anything to go by - then that's that.

I'm going to wait until the next Mass Effect game before I make final judgement on IT.

#31950
paxxton

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plfranke wrote...

paxxton wrote...

byne wrote...

paxxton wrote...

@byne: Did you miss the last reply?


Yes, but I went back and read it. High EMS destroy doesnt do any of those things.

Destroy doesnt go against my principles, because I do understand that there will be sacrifices in war. The geth knew that. EDI knew that. I'm not forcing anything on them that they didnt understand was a possibility.

Well, that's just one whole civilization wiped out + EDI + the Reapers themselves. Moreover, the relays are destroyed with no chance to rebuild (only in Destroy). Hackett is as always proud and happy while people of the Galaxy are cut off of each other, stuck in nowhere, starving, dying, cursing Shepard. And Hackett just sails slowly through space near a broken mass relay. Optimistic. Posted Image We'll manage somehow. Just wasting decades on rebuilding what was unnecessarily destroyed.

It makes you wonder why the driving force of all 3 games is suddenly painted in the worst light.

It makes you wonder why control wasn't a valid choice as a driving force since ME1. Posted Image

Anyway, probably IT.

Modifié par paxxton, 27 juin 2012 - 08:30 .