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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#3176
byne

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lex0r11 wrote...

I think the file size wasn't the problem, one of my uploads turned up on some Brazilian news site.
And that's just one of the "peculiar" sites listed on my stats. People have been using my gallery way too much!

*denies any responsibility*

Sorry for off-topic


Now I've totally gotta know what picture the Brazilian news site was using.

#3177
Rifneno

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lex0r11 wrote...

I think the file size wasn't the problem, one of my uploads turned up on some Brazilian news site.
And that's just one of the "peculiar" sites listed on my stats. People have been using my gallery way too much!

*denies any responsibility*

Sorry for off-topic


That wasn't a Brazillian news site.  You do know what Brazillian Wax means, right? :whistle:

#3178
byne

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So, all the talk of DA:O last night made me wanna play it.

Currently at the fade dream part of the Circle Tower quest (my least favorite part of the game, coincidentally.)

Was talking to Fake!Duncan in the dream.

Duncan: I just wanted to make sure you were happy here, in Weisshaupt. These grand halls were built by the first Grey Wardens. Isnt it breathtaking?

Warden: I dont know. Something doesnt seem right.

Duncan: Everything is as it should be. We have eradicated the darkspawn and the world is at peace.

Warden: Thats not right. The world is never utterly at peace.

Duncan: But now it is, for the first time in history. And you played a part in the making of that history. Do you not remember?

Warden: No, I thought the darkspawn would always be a threat.

Duncan: It was a triumph for all of us, bringing down the archdemon and setting the underground lairs ablaze.

Warden: Thats not possible. You're hiding something from me.

Duncan: Foolish child. I have given you so much, and you cast it back in my face. Can you not be content with the peace I offer?

Warden: You offer complacency, not peace.

Duncan: It seems only war and death will satisfy you. So be it! have your war and your darkspawn! May they be your doom!


Sure is nice to have an option like the bold underlined one...

Anyhow, the fade sequence seems to have a whole lot of parallels to IT, only in the case of DA:O, we know its a dream, because we saw our character fall asleep.

You cant choose to simply remain in the dream because that'd be giving in to indoctrination the demon, but I mean there are a lot of similarities.

So, to get to my point: its not exactly like Bioware hasnt done something like IT before.

Modifié par byne, 20 mai 2012 - 02:10 .


#3179
paxxton

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lex0r11 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Hi there!
Wow! You've exceeded a 10GB limit with pictures? How did you manage that? Posted Image
Change formats and use stronger compression.

I think the file size wasn't the problem, one of my uploads turned up on some Brazilian news site.
And that's just one of the "peculiar" sites listed on my stats. People have been using my gallery way too much!

*denies any responsibility*

Sorry for off-topic

People from all the corners of the world want to see your motivators. You're out of luck. Posted Image

Modifié par paxxton, 20 mai 2012 - 02:24 .


#3180
prettz

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hear is something I never noticed till I muted the music. you can hear the walls moving, the ones that Anderson was talking about.
www.youtube.com/watch

#3181
HellishFiend

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prettz wrote...

hear is something I never noticed till I muted the music. you can hear the walls moving, the ones that Anderson was talking about.
www.youtube.com/watch


Thanks for the video. I actually hadnt heard that first one. Knew about the second two though. The sound is completely different from the moving walls we see in the chasm area, though I dont know what that could mean. 

#3182
Bill Casey

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From a year ago...

EatChildren wrote...

The QR code clues

1. BioWare are releasing QR codes with apparent clues to their next game. These can be found on their Twitter account, Facebook page, advertisements, and elsewhere. This will be updated as new codes and clues arrive.

2. First code is here. It reads as the binary code '001101010011010100101110001110000011010000110101'. This, when converted to ASCII is '55.845'. The meaning for this number is unknwon, however it is likely that it is referencing the atomic weight of an iron atom, which shares the same value.

3. Second code is here. It reads as the binary code '0010110100110001001100100011100000101110001101011011000001000110'. This, when converted to ASCII is '-128.5°F'. This is approximately the coldest temperature recorded naturally on Earth, at Vostok, Antarctica.

4. Third code is here. It reads as the binary code '0110100001110100011101000111000000111010001011110010111101110111011101110111011100101110011100110110100101110011001011100110011101101111011101100010111001110101011010110010111101101111011101010111010001110000011101010111010000101111011100110110100101110011001011010110100001101111011011010110010100101101011101110110010101101100011000110110111101101101011001010010111001101000011101000110110101101100'. This, when converted to ASCII is this URL. The website is for the Secret Intelligence Service of the UK. This is not BioWare's website, so there are unlikely to be many if any clues on the website itself.

5. Fourth QR code was found on BioWare's Facebook page. It can be found here. When decoded, it gives this url. The URL links to an image of a The Clash album, specifically The Singles. There is no additional information.

6. Fifth QR code was found oN BioWare's Facebook page. It can be found here. When decoded, it gives this url. The website displays this image, specifically a red herring.

7. Like any good puzzle, we dont know for sure what all these bits and pieces mean. However, if we are to run with Mass Effect, it is interesting to note that in Mass Effect 2 there appears a planet called Aequitas. The official description of this planet has it's surface temperature as -89.1°C, which is approximately -128.5°F, Additionally, the planet is described as having 'famous Iron Canyons'. This planet, in Mass Effect, is the only obvious referencing of both of the number clues. The third code linking to the SIS website may indcate that the SIS headquarters, or the rough location, appear in the teaser trailer, as the SIS headquaters are here, and the positioning of the bridge and fence look very similar to this shot from the teaser. What The Clash - The Singles means is a little confusing, however The Clash is a British band, which ties in nicely with the previous SIS Headquarters/Vauxhall Bridge clue. Of note, and this may not mean anything, Mass Effect's prominent figure David Anderson was born in London. The most recent clue, the 'red herring', would imply that somewhere along the lines we have been given false information. Perhaps this game is not leaning towards Mass Effect at all.


Aequitas glows in some playthroughs...
There's no mission there...

It just glows...
I assumed it was a glitch...
That planet had a mission where you destroyed a Reaper indoctrination device...
No way...

Modifié par Bill Casey, 20 mai 2012 - 02:38 .


#3183
HellishFiend

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Bill Casey wrote...
*snip*


Like with a good riddle, I'm stumped. Can't wait to see what the answer is!

Modifié par HellishFiend, 20 mai 2012 - 02:41 .


#3184
BleedingUranium

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HellishFiend wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...
*snip*


Like with a good riddle, I'm stumped. Can't wait to see what the answer is!


Aaaahhhh that's weird!

#3185
Destructorlio

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byne wrote...

Anyhow, the fade sequence seems to have a whole lot of parallels to IT, only in the case of DA:O, we know its a dream, because we saw our character fall asleep.

You cant choose to simply remain in the dream because that'd be giving in to indoctrination the demon, but I mean there are a lot of similarities.

So, to get to my point: its not exactly like Bioware hasnt done something like IT before.


I agree- in fact that sort of deception is a feature in almost every Bioware game, most notably Neverwinter Nights, where if you DO give in to the illusion, the game ends and the credits run!

Fade demons seem to particularly like to take on the forms of either your ex-friends or small, helpless children. If you listen closely to their voices you can hear a demon's voice behind the voice of the person they are impersonating.

So since you probably have a save game near that scene with Duncan, can you check to see if you CAN submit to the illusion? What happens? In fact, can you submit to every fade illusion from here on out, just to see if any of them end the game? Would be a useful IT data point.

Anyway, earlier in this thread someone posted an odd image of Shepard holding their hand up to an odd light, they said it was UNDER the dream planet scene? I didn't really understand this, can we go back to this point? Where does this image occur and how did you come to view it?

#3186
MegumiAzusa

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Bill Casey wrote...

From a year ago...

EatChildren wrote...

The QR code clues

1. BioWare are releasing QR codes with apparent clues to their next game. These can be found on their Twitter account, Facebook page, advertisements, and elsewhere. This will be updated as new codes and clues arrive.

2. First code is here. It reads as the binary code '001101010011010100101110001110000011010000110101'. This, when converted to ASCII is '55.845'. The meaning for this number is unknwon, however it is likely that it is referencing the atomic weight of an iron atom, which shares the same value.

3. Second code is here. It reads as the binary code '0010110100110001001100100011100000101110001101011011000001000110'. This, when converted to ASCII is '-128.5°F'. This is approximately the coldest temperature recorded naturally on Earth, at Vostok, Antarctica.

4. Third code is here. It reads as the binary code '0110100001110100011101000111000000111010001011110010111101110111011101110111011100101110011100110110100101110011001011100110011101101111011101100010111001110101011010110010111101101111011101010111010001110000011101010111010000101111011100110110100101110011001011010110100001101111011011010110010100101101011101110110010101101100011000110110111101101101011001010010111001101000011101000110110101101100'. This, when converted to ASCII is this URL. The website is for the Secret Intelligence Service of the UK. This is not BioWare's website, so there are unlikely to be many if any clues on the website itself.

5. Fourth QR code was found on BioWare's Facebook page. It can be found here. When decoded, it gives this url. The URL links to an image of a The Clash album, specifically The Singles. There is no additional information.

6. Fifth QR code was found oN BioWare's Facebook page. It can be found here. When decoded, it gives this url. The website displays this image, specifically a red herring.

7. Like any good puzzle, we dont know for sure what all these bits and pieces mean. However, if we are to run with Mass Effect, it is interesting to note that in Mass Effect 2 there appears a planet called Aequitas. The official description of this planet has it's surface temperature as -89.1°C, which is approximately -128.5°F, Additionally, the planet is described as having 'famous Iron Canyons'. This planet, in Mass Effect, is the only obvious referencing of both of the number clues. The third code linking to the SIS website may indcate that the SIS headquarters, or the rough location, appear in the teaser trailer, as the SIS headquaters are here, and the positioning of the bridge and fence look very similar to this shot from the teaser. What The Clash - The Singles means is a little confusing, however The Clash is a British band, which ties in nicely with the previous SIS Headquarters/Vauxhall Bridge clue. Of note, and this may not mean anything, Mass Effect's prominent figure David Anderson was born in London. The most recent clue, the 'red herring', would imply that somewhere along the lines we have been given false information. Perhaps this game is not leaning towards Mass Effect at all.


Aequitas glows in some playthroughs...
There's no mission there...

It just glows...
I assumed it was a glitch...
That planet had a mission where you destroyed a Reaper indoctrination device...
No way...

"destroyed" you sure of that?

#3187
Uncle Jo

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Rifneno wrote...

*snip*

A few idea have been tossed around. Only one I remember is my own which came from a chekhov's gun or red herring (depending on whether it's used) in the codex. They talked about how if they could hack through the built-in safety features on mass effect engine (Reaper design, Reaper 'safety' feature) that checks to make sure there's no obstacles in the way, a single ship going at FTL could kamakazi into a Reaper and do enough damage to obliterate even a capital ship. Thing is, Cerberus Daily News had a big story during ME2 about the turians fighting a terrorist separatist group who did hack it and used a single ship to blow up a planet's capital. All we need to do is find turian al-qaeda's old notes and we're good to go.

Yes, I remember it. It raised quite a discussion too, as much as I can recall, it's nearly impossible to hack the safety-measures. But they maybe  haven't tried that hard, because there was no emergency/need at this time. Other problem was (I think) that an object travelling faster than light would not cause enough damage (not sure at all, physic was never my strong point)... Anyways, I dream of a cutscene in which suicide-ships led by Jacob fly for their last mission and where Vega, Allers, Cortez and other useful characters could prove that they actually can do something for the galaxy.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 20 mai 2012 - 03:16 .


#3188
Destructorlio

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Another quick repeat- one of the early 'clues' about Indoctrination Theory was that, according to several independent sources, the musical cues if you chose/walked toward the 'Control' or 'Synthesis' options contained a Reaper growl and were more downbeat, but if you chose/walked towards the 'Destroy' option there was no growl and the music was a bit more hopeful. However in the 98m documentary the author confirmed that this was NOT the case, that the music was actually identical, regardless of what choice you made/direction you walked in- it was all just the same music, on a loop.

Since the documentary had a few other flaws, can we get independent confirmation of this observation, be it true or false? Can someone look into the architecture of the game to see if different music files are triggered between the three choices, and if there is any difference between them?

Thanks!

#3189
HellishFiend

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Destructorlio wrote...

Another quick repeat- one of the early 'clues' about Indoctrination Theory was that, according to several independent sources, the musical cues if you chose/walked toward the 'Control' or 'Synthesis' options contained a Reaper growl and were more downbeat, but if you chose/walked towards the 'Destroy' option there was no growl and the music was a bit more hopeful. However in the 98m documentary the author confirmed that this was NOT the case, that the music was actually identical, regardless of what choice you made/direction you walked in- it was all just the same music, on a loop.

Since the documentary had a few other flaws, can we get independent confirmation of this observation, be it true or false? Can someone look into the architecture of the game to see if different music files are triggered between the three choices, and if there is any difference between them?

Thanks!


You can basically confirm that clue was false simply by listening to that track on youtube or with the game on pause. 

#3190
Swimming Ferret

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What I just don't understand is how getting blasted with Harbinger's beam starts the indocrination. :| Reapers produce the signals from their bodies, they don't using some fancy 'indocrination ray' when they shoot people. Does it say anywhere Reapers use their beams to indocrinate people? They can only use their signal, as Rana tells you in ME1.
And the beam fries Shepard and melts her damn armour and near kills her.
So no, Harbinger's beam isn't some indocrination ray. Stop saying that, as it doesn't make any type of sense.

(I'm not a troll, so don't throw that at me. I just don't get why some IT fans think Harbinger can indocrinate people via his death ray.)


...And lol at the last dozen pages of the previous threads. Some people really like to fly off topic.

#3191
gunslinger_ruiz

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HellishFiend wrote...

Bill Casey wrote...
*snip*


Like with a good riddle, I'm stumped. Can't wait to see what the answer is!


The big message I got from it was "ME3 is what we're going to show you" since they said they were revealing a new game trailer in a week or some such.
The first two clues I saw as "Earth" or "takes place on Earth"
Third clue as "espionage" or "the UK" or maybe just "warriors"
Fourth clue I didn't understand, now that I looked up The Clash, The Singles album and "London Calling" I can see that as "takes place in London" or "London is important" or "war in London"
Fifth code, red herring, I have no idea, suppose i could mean "Dont' read too much into this" or "this is a distraction" or "the real meaning of this (the trailer reveal) is a distraction, wait and see"

BUT, now that ME3 is out/beaten and we're trying to analyze the hell out of the endings.
The first two clues can clearly be related to the planet Aequitas as the original poster said, in a sense that in ME2 you had to take out an Indoctrination Device and a lot of husks.
So the first two clues become "It's about Indoctrination" or "Indoctrination is invloved"
Third clue remains the same, the SIS/MI6 being a clandestine organization could hint at something I'm not seeing feel free to throw in your thoughts.
Fourth clue, The Clash, assuming it's pointing at "London Calling" I've already posted the lyrics that caught my eye, in a way it can describe much of the end, but the lyric that would stand out most toward Indoctrination Theory, "see we ain't got no high, Except for that one with the yellowy eyes." Yellow-y eyes refering to Harbinger could mean "Harbinger is very happy, no one else is, especially you."
Then the Red Herring comes into play, "this is a distraction" or "the ending is a distraction" or "you can't see what's really happening (YET)"

#3192
DJBare

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HellishFiend wrote...

DJBare wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

While I would love for that to be a clue towards IT, I dont think it is. I think it's just alluding to the fact that it's the conduit relay, nothing more. 

And I'll maintain the relays are more than transit devices like the citadel, the council were always too willing to dismiss Shepards claim in my opinion, with slow subtle indoctrination the council could be convinced the reapers are nothing but a myth "ahh reapers, we have dismissed this claim"; Anderson says there was barely anything left of the soveriegn wreckage, yet we saw huge chunks blown off it, and I don't buy the scavenger story, the Alliance would have been the first on the scene considering those that survived were already there, any piece of Sovereign would have shown it was not geth technology.

Sorry, went off on a slight tangent there, it just got me thinking the council have been in close proximity to reaper tech right from the beginning.

 

I'll accept that possibility. I too think the Citadel has some kind of pacifying effect. It's just difficult to accept the ME1 hum as a direct clue towards IT, is all.  

Agreed, I think Kaidan mentioning the hum was just foreshadowing the statue being an actual working relay.

#3193
Uncle Jo

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Swimming Ferret wrote...

What I just don't understand is how getting blasted with Harbinger's beam starts the indocrination. :| Reapers produce the signals from their bodies, they don't using some fancy 'indocrination ray' when they shoot people. Does it say anywhere Reapers use their beams to indocrinate people? They can only use their signal, as Rana tells you in ME1.
And the beam fries Shepard and melts her damn armour and near kills her.
So no, Harbinger's beam isn't some indocrination ray. Stop saying that, as it doesn't make any type of sense.

You don't know much about IT do you ? Here a link masseffectindoctrination.blogspot.de/
It's a good explanation of the IT and a compilation of it's clues/hints. Read it (it's not that long and very well written), make your own opinion about it and ask again.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 20 mai 2012 - 03:34 .


#3194
sunnie7699

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Swimming Ferret wrote...

What I just don't understand is how getting blasted with Harbinger's beam starts the indocrination. :| Reapers produce the signals from their bodies, they don't using some fancy 'indocrination ray' when they shoot people. Does it say anywhere Reapers use their beams to indocrinate people? They can only use their signal, as Rana tells you in ME1.
And the beam fries Shepard and melts her damn armour and near kills her.
So no, Harbinger's beam isn't some indocrination ray. Stop saying that, as it doesn't make any type of sense.

(I'm not a troll, so don't throw that at me. I just don't get why some IT fans think Harbinger can indocrinate people via his death ray.)


...And lol at the last dozen pages of the previous threads. Some people really like to fly off topic.


I don't believe that the ray itself caused the indoctrination, but that the ray hit close enough to Shepard to do some damage and knock him/her out, and THEN while shepard was knocked out, there was some sort of indoctrination attempt.

#3195
DJBare

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Uncle Jo wrote...
Yes, I remember it. It raised quite a discussion too, as much as I can recall, it's nearly impossible to hack the safety-measures. But they maybe  haven't tried that hard, because there was no emergency/need at this time. Other problem was (I think) that an object travelling faster than light would not cause enough damage (not sure at all, physic was never my strong point)... Anyways, I dream of a cutscene in which suicide-ships led by Jacob fly for their last mission and where Vega, Allers, Cortez and other useful characters could prove that they actually can do something for the galaxy.

The only way it would work is for the mass effect core to be disabled just before impact, the mass core reduces the ships mass for FTL to be possible, the ship would need to return to normal mass before impact otherwise its just going to bounce off.

#3196
Cyberfrog81

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Swimming Ferret wrote...

So no, Harbinger's beam isn't some indocrination ray. Stop saying that, as it doesn't make any type of sense.

(I'm not a troll, so don't throw that at me. I just don't get why some IT fans think Harbinger can indocrinate people via his death ray.)

Well, no offense then, but you missed one important point: When Shepard is knocked out, he is more vulnerable. Indoctrination kicks into high gear, presumably overseen by Harby himself.

But given that Shepard survived (in Destroy Good), that Beam must have been adjusted by Harbinger ("set to stun" if you will, though apparently also with an odd effect on his armor). Doesn't mean ITheorists believe the beam is responsible for the actual indoctrination attempt(s) though.

EDIT:
Also, we don't actually agree on when Shepard is fully immersed in a hallucination/dream. Some suggest it happened before the Conduit run, others as late as after the TIM "showdown" (that leaves some story issues though, like TIM's as-far-as-we-know impossible biotics).

In the future, please don't straw-man us.

Modifié par Cyberfrog81, 20 mai 2012 - 03:41 .


#3197
DJBare

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Swimming Ferret wrote...

What I just don't understand is how getting blasted with Harbinger's beam starts the indocrination. :| Reapers produce the signals from their bodies, they don't using some fancy 'indocrination ray' when they shoot people. Does it say anywhere Reapers use their beams to indocrinate people? They can only use their signal, as Rana tells you in ME1.
And the beam fries Shepard and melts her damn armour and near kills her.
So no, Harbinger's beam isn't some indocrination ray. Stop saying that, as it doesn't make any type of sense.

(I'm not a troll, so don't throw that at me. I just don't get why some IT fans think Harbinger can indocrinate people via his death ray.)


...And lol at the last dozen pages of the previous threads. Some people really like to fly off topic.

No one ever stated Harby's beam is an indoctrination method, what I.T states is the blast from the beam knocked Shepard unconscious, the reapers then take the opportunity to attempt indoctrination, reapers have an easier time indoctrinating the subdued like Grayson in Retribution.

#3198
paxxton

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DJBare wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...
Yes, I remember it. It raised quite a discussion too, as much as I can recall, it's nearly impossible to hack the safety-measures. But they maybe  haven't tried that hard, because there was no emergency/need at this time. Other problem was (I think) that an object travelling faster than light would not cause enough damage (not sure at all, physic was never my strong point)... Anyways, I dream of a cutscene in which suicide-ships led by Jacob fly for their last mission and where Vega, Allers, Cortez and other useful characters could prove that they actually can do something for the galaxy.

The only way it would work is for the mass effect core to be disabled just before impact, the mass core reduces the ships mass for FTL to be possible, the ship would need to return to normal mass before impact otherwise its just going to bounce off.

That's not necessarily true. When the speed of an object increases, it's mass also increases. That's why it's impossible to achieve light speed (the mass of an object is infinite at that point). The eezo core may decrease the mass of a ship but it still gets heavier as it's speed goes up.

#3199
Uncle Jo

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DJBare wrote...

Uncle Jo wrote...
Yes, I remember it. It raised quite a discussion too, as much as I can recall, it's nearly impossible to hack the safety-measures. But they maybe  haven't tried that hard, because there was no emergency/need at this time. Other problem was (I think) that an object travelling faster than light would not cause enough damage (not sure at all, physic was never my strong point)... Anyways, I dream of a cutscene in which suicide-ships led by Jacob fly for their last mission and where Vega, Allers, Cortez and other useful characters could prove that they actually can do something for the galaxy.

The only way it would work is for the mass effect core to be disabled just before impact, the mass core reduces the ships mass for FTL to be possible, the ship would need to return to normal mass before impact otherwise its just going to bounce off.

Thanks for the explanation !

Edit: paxxton just blew my mind.

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 20 mai 2012 - 03:47 .


#3200
paxxton

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Nothing's here. Posted Image

Modifié par paxxton, 20 mai 2012 - 04:52 .