55528 réponses à ce sujet

[BatmanTurian]

paxxton wrote...

Is the Starchild after Reject voiced by the same actor that voiced Harbinger?

They sounded identical to me. It made my hair stand on end.

[boeloe]

One of the things that still bothering me is that Shepard is in no way surprised that starbinger looks like the kid from the rooftop and his dreams. Why isn't Shepard freaked out or at the very least surprised by that?

Anyone have any thoughts on that?

Modifié par boeloe, 27 juin 2012 - 08:58 .

[suprarj]

Ravereth wrote...

 Ok, actually I still believe, that Harby (or Starchild) tried to indoctrinate Shepard by telling him to choose synthesis or control.... But I no longer believe that the whole ending was just a dream. And that makes me really sad, because I was hoping that there WILL be ME4 with Shepard... Now it's impossible and my Shep couldn't even reunite with his LI ... 
now he is stuck somewhere in space without medigels or any help and.... he will survive?, yeah, sure....unfotunately i'm not able to imagine that 


Or maybe there is something that still gives us hope for IT being true?  I need hope... "more than you think"  

There's still hope for a reunion, high EMS + Destroy shows the Normandy crew not accepting that Shepard is dead and then heading back to find him/her.  Right after that, Shepard is shown breathing in the rubble.

If you accept that the ending was not a dream, then you may also choose to take the game at face value in that there is no "escape from Indoc" ending, just different ways to save the world.

[plfranke]

Martin Szop wrote...

Hi guys, long time lurker from the first page of the first thread.

Anyone noticed that the crew of the *crashed* Normandy somehow telepathically know that Anderson is dead and put his name on the memorial wall ? how do they know that if they crash landed and are cut off from the battle of earth?
Also how do they know Shep is dead?

This somewhat goes with the notion that its dream`t up by Shep and he knows/thinks Anderson is dead.

Also is anyone bothered by the way Garrus behaves? He almost punches Joker and after a short while tries to be sensitive and says "we have to go"? It seems like he does not care about Shep at all and just wants out. It seems like a total betrayal considering the relationship Garrus and Shep have - saving each other in the worst of times. I would not be bothered if this was Javik telling something like "We have to go, he`s lost. Lets fight another day and finish the fight he died fighting".

yeah there were things that were out of character. like on the charge when javik got injured and I called for pickup I was like hell no this would not happen. anyone else but javik you know what I mean? I also don't believe javik would have listened to shepard if shepard had told him to get on the ship.

[Trollgunner]

I'm gonna add something. We still get the most bugging phrase from Starbrat and it's : "Wake up" If it's the end and how some ppl say : "The end of IT" Why, he won't say just : "Stand up" This is what really keeps bugging me every time I hear it....
 
Edit: To many questions left unanswered. And not some minor questions. . . 

Modifié par Trollgunner, 27 juin 2012 - 09:01 .

[plfranke]

boeloe wrote...

One of the things that still bothering me is that Shepard is in no way surprised that starbinger looks like the kid from the rooftop and his dreams. Why isn't Shepard freaked out or at the very least surprised by that?

Anyone have any thoughts on that?

You know what I didn't even think about that. That would be one of the first questions I'd ask but shepard isn't given the choice to.

[Arian Dynas]

MaximizedAction wrote...

plfranke wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Did anyone notice that if your teammates survive the run to the beam, they are seriously beaten up and bleeding but in a few minutes later they look better than ever. IT or is Chawkwas magic??

Yep, noticed it. Could be Chawkwas, since she restored Garrus in ME2 similarly well. After all, the squad didn't even seem to suffer from that big injuries.

Indeed.  Was the weakest hand waving I've ever seen - they didn't even just have the Normandy arriving to pick up survivors AFTER Harbinger leaves - that has to be obviously, no-one can be that thick while writing a script can they?

yeah, that shot was cool: Le Normandy just derping around while Harbinger is idling in the background. But then again, maybe that was the Catalyst wanting Shepard to reach the beam.

not only that but how did shepard survive harbinger's beam in the first place? everyone else got slaughtered, heavy tanks and gunships were getting ripped apart but shepard makes it out alive? you can't just chauk impossible feats up to Shepard's will there are some things that just go too far. For that matter Anderson isn't even scratched, the fact that this wasn't elaborated on makes me think it is meant to be questioned.

And questioning is what I fully intend to do with the EC...down to every microsecond of it.

Yes, BW did make Anti-IT's embrace the literal endings more, while keeping many 'IT-hints' like Shep bleading out and Anderson not. But they also cleaned up the endings immensly, like no clipping keepers.

All in all, the ending seems now more tidied up. Literal endings are nice, because if you don't know what to look for then these endings are good closure. If however, you want too look closer, there's still non-trivial stuff to speculate about.

Things that now don't seem so much like development errors anymore, but intended.

Does the color still drain if you turn around while standing next to the door in the Collector Base room?

[Andromidius]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Reject is just giving up to the enemy. In war, there are sacrifices, ruthless calculus. Let a few billion die so a few billion could live. The geth themselves would give their lives for freedom for organics. They and EDI were ready to die. I felt a tug on my heart about it, don't get me wrong, but it's what I felt was the right choice and actually fit the narrative.

I don't see it that way.  Reject is telling the Reapers to go to hell, and that they'll fight them to the death.  Picking any of the choices the Reapers themselves offer is...  Well, giving in to their demands, honestly.

But then why would the suggest Destroy in the first place?  Makes no sense at all.

Because they have surrendered to you. They are offering you a choice. " Sure you can kill us, but we'd rather still exist and just surrender, oh mighty organic whom hath humbled us."

Why would they EVER surrender?  They said it themselves, they are superior in every regard.

Its completely illogical for them to do so, at face value.

[Arian Dynas]

BatmanTurian wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

>.< I hate you. I have Skyrim on PC and can't even touch Dawnguard for a month or more. We don't even have a release date.

I'm REALLY excited for Dawnguard. On the plus side, at least I can kill mother****ers while on my horse now.

Sorry. I'll let you know what I think though, how's that? I won't spoiler anything.

I already know it's going to be awesome.  Just pirate a Xbox copy for me and find some way to make it work on PC so I can have it a month early. 

[MaximizedAction]

Arian Dynas wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

plfranke wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

TJBartlemus wrote...

Did anyone notice that if your teammates survive the run to the beam, they are seriously beaten up and bleeding but in a few minutes later they look better than ever. IT or is Chawkwas magic??

Yep, noticed it. Could be Chawkwas, since she restored Garrus in ME2 similarly well. After all, the squad didn't even seem to suffer from that big injuries.

Indeed.  Was the weakest hand waving I've ever seen - they didn't even just have the Normandy arriving to pick up survivors AFTER Harbinger leaves - that has to be obviously, no-one can be that thick while writing a script can they?

yeah, that shot was cool: Le Normandy just derping around while Harbinger is idling in the background. But then again, maybe that was the Catalyst wanting Shepard to reach the beam.

not only that but how did shepard survive harbinger's beam in the first place? everyone else got slaughtered, heavy tanks and gunships were getting ripped apart but shepard makes it out alive? you can't just chauk impossible feats up to Shepard's will there are some things that just go too far. For that matter Anderson isn't even scratched, the fact that this wasn't elaborated on makes me think it is meant to be questioned.

And questioning is what I fully intend to do with the EC...down to every microsecond of it.

Yes, BW did make Anti-IT's embrace the literal endings more, while keeping many 'IT-hints' like Shep bleading out and Anderson not. But they also cleaned up the endings immensly, like no clipping keepers.

All in all, the ending seems now more tidied up. Literal endings are nice, because if you don't know what to look for then these endings are good closure. If however, you want too look closer, there's still non-trivial stuff to speculate about.

Things that now don't seem so much like development errors anymore, but intended.

Does the color still drain if you turn around while standing next to the door in the Collector Base room?

It starts a bit, but it looses the contrast once the door is fully open. When I saw it, I thought that maybe it's that blue light from the Shadow-broker part that outshines the red. After all, it was completely dark in that room.

They also increased the light beams coming from the console, thus making it impossible to see that Anderson's not yet at the console.

[suprarj]

Andromidius wrote...


Why would they EVER surrender?  They said it themselves, they are superior in every regard.

Its completely illogical for them to do so, at face value.

It's not a "surrender" per se, it's more of a temporary detente to figure things out.  The starchild explains it straight up: they are now aware that their "solution" is not a solution: humanity will find a way to survive by passing data through cycles and ultimately defeat them.  thus a new solution is required. 

Choose the "reject" ending and even then the Reapers' "solution" is shown to be inadequate because in a future cycle the Reapers are still defeated.

Basically, they are admitting that they got it wrong and need guidance.  It's an AI not a raging vindicting C'thulu.

Modifié par suprarj, 27 juin 2012 - 09:06 .

[Ravereth]

Martin Szop wrote...

Hi guys, long time lurker from the first page of the first thread.

Anyone noticed that the crew of the *crashed* Normandy somehow telepathically know that Anderson is dead and put his name on the memorial wall ? how do they know that if they crash landed and are cut off from the battle of earth?
Also how do they know Shep is dead?

This somewhat goes with the notion that its dream`t up by Shep and he knows/thinks Anderson is dead.

I did... There's also one more thing that i can't understand... I had Ashley and Garrus on my run to the beam, Ash was also my Shep's LI so after the "crash scene" she went out of the Normandy, but she was no longer hurt... that was really weird, but probably Bioware just didn't have enough time to change that scene 

[paxxton]

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Is the Starchild after Reject voiced by the same actor that voiced Harbinger?

They sounded identical to me. It made my hair stand on end.

Yeah, it was quite a surprise.  I still don't get it why the child reverts to the previous voice for the last line.
 
I wonder if Harby's VA could confirm he recorded that line.

[Andromidius]

suprarj wrote...

Andromidius wrote...


Why would they EVER surrender?  They said it themselves, they are superior in every regard.

Its completely illogical for them to do so, at face value.

It's not a "surrender" per se, it's more of a temporary detente to figure things out.  The starchild explains it straight up: they are now aware that their "solution" is not a solution: humanity will find a way to survive by passing data through cycles and ultimately defeat them.  thus a new solution is required. 

Choose the "reject" ending and even then the Reapers' "solution" is shown to be inadequate because in a future cycle the Reapers are still defeated.

Still doesn't explain why they'd allow themselves to be Destroyed.

[v0rt3x22]

lol the leaked DLC is making its rounds on the internet (articles I mean...not the actual DLC)

[masster blaster]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

 Guys - how many of you really believe that the Citadel is the home of the Catalyst? 
I know he says it - but people are seriously believing that. 

It doesn't seem to make sense to me......gosh....am I really going to have to take the entire game literally?

Ya and if it WAS real then why did it just remotely told Soverigen about Shepard in the first place and why didn't the Brat close trap everyone in the citidal at any time and nobody would get out and Reapers win, plus why would the cataly's even try to tell Harbinger " Hay why don"t you send some Reapers to come free me of this miserable organics in my home.

Also If I was Harbinger I would have attacked the Citadle first then go to Earth, but the catalys was in charge instead of me so ya, but that's jsut it It has to be Harbinger because Why go to Earth first in the first place instead of the galaxtic leadership center " The Citadle" But as I said the God child is Harbinger because why else would Harbinger PERSONLY good down to Earth with several Reapers only to have Harbinger to be the only Reaper prestent even in the very low EMS so ya.

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

suprarj wrote...

Ravereth wrote...

 Ok, actually I still believe, that Harby (or Starchild) tried to indoctrinate Shepard by telling him to choose synthesis or control.... But I no longer believe that the whole ending was just a dream. And that makes me really sad, because I was hoping that there WILL be ME4 with Shepard... Now it's impossible and my Shep couldn't even reunite with his LI ... 
now he is stuck somewhere in space without medigels or any help and.... he will survive?, yeah, sure....unfotunately i'm not able to imagine that 


Or maybe there is something that still gives us hope for IT being true?  I need hope... "more than you think"  

There's still hope for a reunion, high EMS + Destroy shows the Normandy crew not accepting that Shepard is dead and then heading back to find him/her.  Right after that, Shepard is shown breathing in the rubble.

If you accept that the ending was not a dream, then you may also choose to take the game at face value in that there is no "escape from Indoc" ending, just different ways to save the world.

But it leaves two massive unexplained holes.

1: How did Shepard survive. That is the most major one. Earth or not that explosion on the Citadel should have turned him into particles, there would not even be ash left from beeing so close to such a big explosion.

2: The planet the Normandy crash on...we know it is within FTL flight of the Sol system...so where is it? One would think a habitable planet near sol would be a major expansion point for the Alliance to the point where the planet, especially a place as sincredibly beatiful as hwere the Normandy crashes wpoudl contain some form of civilization.

[EpyonX3]

BatmanTurian wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Is the Starchild after Reject voiced by the same actor that voiced Harbinger?

They sounded identical to me. It made my hair stand on end.

DIdn't sound like Harbinger to me. Sounded like a much deeper version of the child's voice with added digital effects like the other reapers. Anyone mind adjusting the pitch to the So Be It line?

[suprarj]

Andromidius wrote...

suprarj wrote...

Andromidius wrote...


Why would they EVER surrender?  They said it themselves, they are superior in every regard.

Its completely illogical for them to do so, at face value.

It's not a "surrender" per se, it's more of a temporary detente to figure things out.  The starchild explains it straight up: they are now aware that their "solution" is not a solution: humanity will find a way to survive by passing data through cycles and ultimately defeat them.  thus a new solution is required. 

Choose the "reject" ending and even then the Reapers' "solution" is shown to be inadequate because in a future cycle the Reapers are still defeated.

Still doesn't explain why they'd allow themselves to be Destroyed.

Sure it does.  Why would Shepard allow himself to be destroyed?  If your goal is truly to seek balance / harmony, anything can be sacrificed.  That's the whole point of this game.  If you choose Destroy, you are sacrificing the geth/AIs to achieve your version of harmony.  The reapers are an AI construct, so if it requires sacrifice on their end to achieve harmony, they will do it.  They came up with the original "solution" (wiping advanced races every 50,000 yrs) NOT because they are mean/bad guys, but because they wanted to keep things peaceful.

[v0rt3x22]

Trollgunner wrote...

I'm gonna add something. We still get the most bugging phrase from Starbrat and it's : "Wake up" If it's the end and how some ppl say : "The end of IT" Why, he won't say just : "Stand up" This is what really keeps bugging me every time I hear it....
 
Edit: To many questions left unanswered. And not some minor questions. . . 

You know what's really strange?

Do you remember the elevator at the end?

It doesn't really seem to lead anywhere - it's not there when you reach the top.

But I guess it hides itself just as well as it did when you first get on it. 

[Daryslash]

BatmanTurian wrote...

plfranke wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Daryslash wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Daryslash wrote...

Why EXACTLY did they recommend we load a save game from before the Cerberus Base? The only difference from before is a moment before entering the beam, when you tell your squadmates to get out, so we could just have loaded a game from before the beam run and saved a lot of time watching the same scenes we watched a thousand times and killing cerberus operatives and reapers forces we were tired of killing.

So yeah, why make us go through all that again? Any ideas, anyone?

I saw A LOT of new differences that actually made the endings way better. I think Bioware abandoned the Hero's Journey trope at the last minute, but the endings were more diverse and much more palatable.

What the hell are you talking about? I know the endings are different. I'm talking about the scenes from the start of the Cereberus Base mission until the beam run. They're all the same. Why make us play them again?

Again, there were some minor differences. Maybe you didn't notice them, but I did. To each their own.

can you say what those were?

They were really minor things. Cutscenes, dialogue and such. I don't remember them all, but they were minor so it might have been easy to miss them.

 Sorry sir, but if you can't point out any, not even ONE difference...

[boeloe]

plfranke wrote...

boeloe wrote...

One of the things that still bothering me is that Shepard is in no way surprised that starbinger looks like the kid from the rooftop and his dreams. Why isn't Shepard freaked out or at the very least surprised by that?

Anyone have any thoughts on that?

You know what I didn't even think about that. That would be one of the first questions I'd ask but shepard isn't given the choice to.

Same here.

1. Starbinger has access to shepards memory (he planted image of kid there OR read it from his memory)
2. Strong clues that Starbinger is a reaper (voice change in reject)

So I still have a very hard time trusting anything that Starbinger says given that it is a reaper and it is resorting to visual tricks so you trust him.

[masster blaster]

Dwailing wrote...

It's weird, I'm noticing far MORE Ashleys and far FEWER Kaidans on the Citadel now.

Although this one is probably just me.

I think it depends on who your LI is and which one you saved.

[BatmanTurian]

plfranke wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

BatmanTurian wrote...

Reject is just giving up to the enemy. In war, there are sacrifices, ruthless calculus. Let a few billion die so a few billion could live. The geth themselves would give their lives for freedom for organics. They and EDI were ready to die. I felt a tug on my heart about it, don't get me wrong, but it's what I felt was the right choice and actually fit the narrative.

I don't see it that way.  Reject is telling the Reapers to go to hell, and that they'll fight them to the death.  Picking any of the choices the Reapers themselves offer is...  Well, giving in to their demands, honestly.

But then why would the suggest Destroy in the first place?  Makes no sense at all.

Because they have surrendered to you. They are offering you a choice. " Sure you can kill us, but we'd rather still exist and just surrender, oh mighty organic whom hath humbled us."

what I find odd though is that taken at face value the catalyst can refuse to work with you at any time as shown by the beam shutting off once he leaves. it doesn't make sense that he would offer you the choice to destroy him.

Maybe he really meant it when he said his solution wasn't working anymore. I think humanity, and specifically Shepard, fundamentally changed what Starkid thought of organics. It's why harby was so interested in Shepard. Shepard was an anomoly to be studied and Starkid was starting to have doubts. Reapers and Reaper agents were being destroyed so Starkid had to give in at some point.

Got company so last post for a while.

Modifié par BatmanTurian, 27 juin 2012 - 09:57 .

[Martin Szop]

plfranke wrote...

Martin Szop wrote...

Hi guys, long time lurker from the first page of the first thread.

Anyone noticed that the crew of the *crashed* Normandy somehow telepathically know that Anderson is dead and put his name on the memorial wall ? how do they know that if they crash landed and are cut off from the battle of earth?
Also how do they know Shep is dead?

This somewhat goes with the notion that its dream`t up by Shep and he knows/thinks Anderson is dead.

Also is anyone bothered by the way Garrus behaves? He almost punches Joker and after a short while tries to be sensitive and says "we have to go"? It seems like he does not care about Shep at all and just wants out. It seems like a total betrayal considering the relationship Garrus and Shep have - saving each other in the worst of times. I would not be bothered if this was Javik telling something like "We have to go, he`s lost. Lets fight another day and finish the fight he died fighting".

yeah there were things that were out of character. like on the charge when javik got injured and I called for pickup I was like hell no this would not happen. anyone else but javik you know what I mean? I also don't believe javik would have listened to shepard if shepard had told him to get on the ship.

Yeah they basicly put the ending on rails to "fix it" and it shows... its a trainwreck 

As for the wall - even if normandy had direct feed to Hackett how would he know what happened to Shep and Anderson? in such a short time?
The speed at which the crew considers them KIA is amazing. With high EMS the normandy does not look damaged at all on the planet and they put there names on the wall before they take off.
Someone would think they would wait a while or search a little, especially after Mass Effect 2 where death didnt stop Shep 

Well maybe they all just want to retire and be over with all the fighting  so the attitude is just "yeah there dead we can go home nowB)".

Modifié par Martin Szop, 27 juin 2012 - 09:11 .