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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#32151
lex0r11

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EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

According to IMDB Keith Szarabajka (Harbinger) recorded lines for additional voices in ME3.


Yeah if you pay close attention. You'll hear Harbinger's voice before he shoots Shepard. Not in english but he does speak.

"Join Us" is in English as far as I know. Posted Image


Que?


Bitte was?

#32152
Arian Dynas

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Huh. Double post.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 27 juin 2012 - 11:03 .


#32153
masster blaster

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Yes, I played in headphones and I could swear the voices are there. I didn't hear Harbinger before the beam though.[/quote]
Check it about 3:23
Maybe I am just getting crazy.

And sorry for the pile of quotes, tablets and BSN are not friendly each other.[/quote]

Guys notice that when Shepard turns around to look at Harbinger Shepard makes a face at harbinger becasue maybe it's looking at Shepard and not blasting hammer to bit's and what the heck are the Alliaince soldiers shooting at.

[/quote]

guys can some please help me understand why Shepard is shocked to find Harbinger just staring at Shepard.

Modifié par masster blaster, 27 juin 2012 - 11:27 .


#32154
EpyonX3

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paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Destroy is my best option because the reapers are destroyed, we salvage the tech and we can reunite with squad.

If the Normandy was repaired, it's possible that EDI is still alive in some form within it and can be rebuilt. She may not be the same but it's better than nothing.

Control is cool but it's not Shepard but a reaper based off of him. Synthesis is just weird.

Control is the best. Synthesis is the greatest. Destroy is the weakest. Posted Image


Well we have differing opinions. It's cool though. /Civility

You're out of you mind paxxton!  :P

#32155
paxxton

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lex0r11 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

According to IMDB Keith Szarabajka (Harbinger) recorded lines for additional voices in ME3.


Yeah if you pay close attention. You'll hear Harbinger's voice before he shoots Shepard. Not in english but he does speak.

"Join Us" is in English as far as I know. Posted Image


Que?


Bitte was?

He says "Join Us".



#32156
MaximizedAction

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EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Destroy is my best option because the reapers are destroyed, we salvage the tech and we can reunite with squad.

If the Normandy was repaired, it's possible that EDI is still alive in some form within it and can be rebuilt. She may not be the same but it's better than nothing.

Control is cool but it's not Shepard but a reaper based off of him. Synthesis is just weird.

Control is the best. Synthesis is the greatest. Destroy is the weakest. Posted Image


Well we have differing opinions. It's cool though. /Civility

You're out of you mind paxxton!  :P


But I agree with paxxton, as in that Control and Synthesis were displayed more interestingly than Destroy. Without the breath scene, it was the least emotional for me. Felt nothing during it, however, Synthesis made me shed a tear.

I wonder why...

#32157
EpyonX3

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@Arian

I've attempted to address most of those points. I'd do it again but I doubt I'd convince you or anyone else here of anything.

#32158
D.Sharrah

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Did anyone else feel like they made the mix of Shep's voice/child's voice for the Catalyst more apparent? I felt like it was alot easier to hear the Male Shep voice that was mixed in (while playing my Male Shep - haven't played fem Shep through the EC yet). If they did, why? The only thing that I can come up with is if it is more apparent to try to convince Shep that the ideas for the choices are his/her own...

#32159
paxxton

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EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Destroy is my best option because the reapers are destroyed, we salvage the tech and we can reunite with squad.

If the Normandy was repaired, it's possible that EDI is still alive in some form within it and can be rebuilt. She may not be the same but it's better than nothing.

Control is cool but it's not Shepard but a reaper based off of him. Synthesis is just weird.

Control is the best. Synthesis is the greatest. Destroy is the weakest. Posted Image


Well we have differing opinions. It's cool though. /Civility

You're out of you mind paxxton!  :P

LOL. I'm not. The Reapers are rebuilding Mass Relays and there's peace. And limitless potential. Posted Image

#32160
MaximizedAction

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D.Sharrah wrote...

Did anyone else feel like they made the mix of Shep's voice/child's voice for the Catalyst more apparent? I felt like it was alot easier to hear the Male Shep voice that was mixed in (while playing my Male Shep - haven't played fem Shep through the EC yet). If they did, why? The only thing that I can come up with is if it is more apparent to try to convince Shep that the ideas for the choices are his/her own...


Same.here.
Absolutely.

#32161
Nightingale

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TJBartlemus wrote...

Sero303 wrote...

Whenever there is 'chaos' on my computer I can choose between:
"CTRL" "DSTRY" OR "SYNTS"


CTRL=control
ALT= alter/synthesis
DEL= destroy

Hmmmm..... :huh::whistle:

...Well, I'll never be able to start Task Manager without thinking this. Thanks :P

Arian Dynas wrote...

Really, the literal ending just has a
number of things that are quite simply CLEARLY intentional (since the
require more programming to do) that from the sound of it are still
there.

A literal ending has to explain the purpose of the dreams,
why the child can seemingly teleport,
why the garden disappears after the scene,
how the kid can move so damn fast from one location to another,
the scream you can hear when the music is turned off during the kid's death scene,
Why it is Shepard is NOT indoctrinated,
The Starchild's circular logic
Why it is that we do a complete 180 on the themes in the last 5 minutes,
Why two of the endings align so perfectly with the motivations of Saren and The Illusive Man,
Why the gun morphs in the Destroy ending, as well as why the sound changes,
The reasons for the presence of infrasound,
Why Harbinger didn't blow the Normandy out of the sky,
How the Normandy crew knows Anderson is dead, yet has no confirmation on Shepard,
Why the Starchild's voice changes in "Reject"
Why the Starchild TOOK the shape of a child to begin with, and how,
Why Harbinger seemed to completely lose interest in Shepard in this game since the last one,
What was the point of The Arrival if they don't make use of the info about Mass Relays blowing up,
Why Object Rho did nothing to indoctrinate Shepard, even though it IS canon,
Why the Indoctrination subplot was abandoned and never picked up (supposedly according to Final Hours)
Why Shepard starts bleeding after Anderson dies,
Why The Illusive Man has gone from "I don't need you" to "I need you badly."

In a literal ending, my best guess is...
The dreams really are just a poor attempt at PTSD.
They somewhat explained some of the circular logic.
Harbinger left the Normandy because plot armour?
Perhaps Hackett heard the last conversation with Anderson.
Starchild wanted a form familiar to Shepard (which works both for IT and literally).
Harbinger doesn't lose interest, it just has more important things to do. He's supposedly a leader of sorts.
Is Shepard still bleeding during the EC? I must've missed more than I thought...
Everything else, your guess is as good as mine. It all supports IT, for sure.

#32162
JezuzGumball

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How do we know for certain that Harbinger is the one shooting at the very end? His voice is VERY distinct. To me, the scene when the catalyst says "SO BE IT" doesn't sound like harbinger, also when you hear "join us" just before Shepard is blown away. Maybe its a just a reaper?

Just a thought. Maybe I missed something?...

#32163
Ravereth

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paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

According to IMDB Keith Szarabajka (Harbinger) recorded lines for additional voices in ME3.


Yeah if you pay close attention. You'll hear Harbinger's voice before he shoots Shepard. Not in english but he does speak.

"Join Us" is in English as far as I know. Posted Image


Que?

He says "Join Us".


Sounds more like "Serve Us" :bandit:

#32164
Nightingale

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D.Sharrah wrote...

Did anyone else feel like they made the mix of Shep's voice/child's voice for the Catalyst more apparent? I felt like it was alot easier to hear the Male Shep voice that was mixed in (while playing my Male Shep - haven't played fem Shep through the EC yet). If they did, why? The only thing that I can come up with is if it is more apparent to try to convince Shep that the ideas for the choices are his/her own...

Yes. I played FemShep and Male Shep's voice was extremely obvious. Oddly enough, I didn't hear Hale much.

#32165
MaximizedAction

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JezuzGumball wrote...

How do we know for certain that Harbinger is the one shooting at the very end? His voice is VERY distinct. To me, the scene when the catalyst says "SO BE IT" doesn't sound like harbinger, also when you hear "join us" just before Shepard is blown away. Maybe its a just a reaper?

Just a thought. Maybe I missed something?...


Yeah, I too find that that sounded more like the Rannoch Destroyer.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 27 juin 2012 - 11:11 .


#32166
paxxton

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MaximizedAction wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Destroy is my best option because the reapers are destroyed, we salvage the tech and we can reunite with squad.

If the Normandy was repaired, it's possible that EDI is still alive in some form within it and can be rebuilt. She may not be the same but it's better than nothing.

Control is cool but it's not Shepard but a reaper based off of him. Synthesis is just weird.

Control is the best. Synthesis is the greatest. Destroy is the weakest. Posted Image


Well we have differing opinions. It's cool though. /Civility

You're out of you mind paxxton!  :P


But I agree with paxxton, as in that Control and Synthesis were displayed more interestingly than Destroy. Without the breath scene, it was the least emotional for me. Felt nothing during it, however, Synthesis made me shed a tear.

I wonder why...

Because it actually what humanity wants to achieve. Symbiosis between machine and flesh. Mutual enhancement. Like nanoaugmentations.

#32167
MaximizedAction

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paxxton wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Destroy is my best option because the reapers are destroyed, we salvage the tech and we can reunite with squad.

If the Normandy was repaired, it's possible that EDI is still alive in some form within it and can be rebuilt. She may not be the same but it's better than nothing.

Control is cool but it's not Shepard but a reaper based off of him. Synthesis is just weird.

Control is the best. Synthesis is the greatest. Destroy is the weakest. Posted Image


Well we have differing opinions. It's cool though. /Civility

You're out of you mind paxxton!  :P


But I agree with paxxton, as in that Control and Synthesis were displayed more interestingly than Destroy. Without the breath scene, it was the least emotional for me. Felt nothing during it, however, Synthesis made me shed a tear.

I wonder why...

Because it actually what humanity wants to achieve. Symbiosis between machine and flesh. Mutual enhancement. Like nanoaugmentations.


That is, if you decide to trust the Catalyst's words.

#32168
EpyonX3

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MaximizedAction wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Destroy is my best option because the reapers are destroyed, we salvage the tech and we can reunite with squad.

If the Normandy was repaired, it's possible that EDI is still alive in some form within it and can be rebuilt. She may not be the same but it's better than nothing.

Control is cool but it's not Shepard but a reaper based off of him. Synthesis is just weird.

Control is the best. Synthesis is the greatest. Destroy is the weakest. Posted Image


Well we have differing opinions. It's cool though. /Civility

You're out of you mind paxxton!  :P


But I agree with paxxton, as in that Control and Synthesis were displayed more interestingly than Destroy. Without the breath scene, it was the least emotional for me. Felt nothing during it, however, Synthesis made me shed a tear.

I wonder why...


Because of EDI's sad face?

Nah I'm not saying they weren't good. In fact I'm pleased with EC so far and I'm curious as to why they didn't do this at first? Short on time is the only reason I can think of.

It's just that Destroy has a better explanation now. I know the geth die, but the relays stay in tact, with high ems. It's like EMS and you moral stance has a better effect on the ending than before.

#32169
Nightingale

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JezuzGumball wrote...

How do we know for certain that Harbinger is the one shooting at the very end? His voice is VERY distinct. To me, the scene when the catalyst says "SO BE IT" doesn't sound like harbinger, also when you hear "join us" just before Shepard is blown away. Maybe its a just a reaper?

Just a thought. Maybe I missed something?...

It's definitely Harby shooting (glowy eyes and all that :P) but it is possible "SO BE IT" and "Join us/Serve us" is someone else. "SO BE IT" was still a mix of the Reaper voice, both Shepards and the child, I think, so that could have somewhat changed how it sounded. As for "Join us" it's more...machine-sounding than an actual voice. Could be intentional, Shepard's hearing Harbinger as a Reaper now, rather than whatever it's controlling. Perhaps it sounds different in person than through an organic.

#32170
MaximizedAction

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But anyway, the Carnifex' echo has Anderson's gunshot-moan now.

#32171
paxxton

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D.Sharrah wrote...

Did anyone else feel like they made the mix of Shep's voice/child's voice for the Catalyst more apparent? I felt like it was alot easier to hear the Male Shep voice that was mixed in (while playing my Male Shep - haven't played fem Shep through the EC yet). If they did, why? The only thing that I can come up with is if it is more apparent to try to convince Shep that the ideas for the choices are his/her own...

Agreed. Though I don't have any comparison because I played the original with speakers and the EC with headphones.

#32172
D.Sharrah

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Reposting for new page...

D.Sharrah wrote...

I had some thoughts about what the extended endings do to impact some of the themes of the game.  And while I don't want to over simplify what is there, I thought there was some pretty inherent conclusions that you could draw based on certain themes.  For the most part I think that there is some interesting stuff there.  Here are just some of my speculations (as it pertains to themes):

Sacrifice

Control - Sacrifices Shep's humanity (and IMHO not for the better, since it gives us the birth of Harpard, the new Reaper overlord)

Destroy - Sacrifices Synthetics/Tech.

*As a quick aside, notice that these first two are polar opposites.

Synthesis - This is one that I have struggled to find a unifying piece...the best that I could come up was Shep.  Since it is the only ending that some part of Shep does not live on.

Refusal/Rejection - Interesting enough this one was the easiest for me to see - Shep sacrifices the current cycle in the hopes that a better solution will be found.

For me, I still think that destroy is my preferred choice.  But what Bioware was able to present with the idea of rejecting the Catalyst is compelling...it seems that most have gotten there by turning around to shoot the Catalyst; but for me it was much more powerful when the rejection comes from the dialogue choices.  That option being present was more in line with my Shepard - never wanting to give up on anyone (its why he saved the Rachni, made peace b/w the Geth and Quarians, cured the Genophage, etc.).


Modifié par D.Sharrah, 27 juin 2012 - 11:20 .


#32173
EpyonX3

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Ravereth wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

According to IMDB Keith Szarabajka (Harbinger) recorded lines for additional voices in ME3.


Yeah if you pay close attention. You'll hear Harbinger's voice before he shoots Shepard. Not in english but he does speak.

"Join Us" is in English as far as I know. Posted Image


Que?

He says "Join Us".


Sounds more like "Serve Us" :bandit:


Here we go again. Anyone know how to go through the DLC files? I have an sfar file.

#32174
D.Sharrah

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D.Sharrah wrote...

Did anyone else feel like they made the mix of Shep's voice/child's voice for the Catalyst more apparent? I felt like it was alot easier to hear the Male Shep voice that was mixed in (while playing my Male Shep - haven't played fem Shep through the EC yet). If they did, why? The only thing that I can come up with is if it is more apparent to try to convince Shep that the ideas for the choices are his/her own...



To everyone that responded...did this give you more hope for IT?  It did for me...I still can't put my finger on it, but there is something fishy about the EC...

Edit:  I still think that there might be more to it...unlocked with future DLC, maybe?

Modifié par D.Sharrah, 27 juin 2012 - 11:19 .


#32175
TSA_383

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EpyonX3 wrote...

Ravereth wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

According to IMDB Keith Szarabajka (Harbinger) recorded lines for additional voices in ME3.


Yeah if you pay close attention. You'll hear Harbinger's voice before he shoots Shepard. Not in english but he does speak.

"Join Us" is in English as far as I know. Posted Image


Que?

He says "Join Us".


Sounds more like "Serve Us" :bandit:


Here we go again. Anyone know how to go through the DLC files? I have an sfar file.


Gibbed SFX unpacker opens it ;)