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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#32176
JezuzGumball

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D.Sharrah wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Did anyone else feel like they made the mix of Shep's voice/child's voice for the Catalyst more apparent? I felt like it was alot easier to hear the Male Shep voice that was mixed in (while playing my Male Shep - haven't played fem Shep through the EC yet). If they did, why? The only thing that I can come up with is if it is more apparent to try to convince Shep that the ideas for the choices are his/her own...



To everyone that responded...did this give you more hope for IT?  It did for me...I still can't put my finger on it, but there is something fishy about the EC...



you know, I thought that was just me. Everytime I tried to listen for it pre-EC, I could barely make it out. As I played EC I coulda sworn I heard it WAY more clearly. Glad to see it wasn't just me.

#32177
boeloe

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EpyonX3 wrote...


Here we go again. Anyone know how to go through the DLC files? I have an sfar file.


sfar Explorer

http://www.mediafire...nwkwo87kmw57lpr


It has a topic here: http://forum.xentax....t=8500&start=75

#32178
MaximizedAction

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D.Sharrah wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Did anyone else feel like they made the mix of Shep's voice/child's voice for the Catalyst more apparent? I felt like it was alot easier to hear the Male Shep voice that was mixed in (while playing my Male Shep - haven't played fem Shep through the EC yet). If they did, why? The only thing that I can come up with is if it is more apparent to try to convince Shep that the ideas for the choices are his/her own...



To everyone that responded...did this give you more hope for IT?  It did for me...I still can't put my finger on it, but there is something fishy about the EC...


Sure it's fishy. At least now, it is more a fleshed-out-kind-of-fishy. :D

But I also think it is now better explainable with the literal endings. If you trust the Catalyst, then a lot seems to make sense now, not everything, but most stuff.

Moreover, I find it highly interesting, how, if you trust the Catalyst, the principle of indoctrination become null and void. Just like IT becomes (or remains even more) less of a deal maker or breaker.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 27 juin 2012 - 11:24 .


#32179
masster blaster

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Also guys apparently the hole Resident Evil movies have all been a dream and now Alice actually wakes up in the last Resident Evil movie. So maybe IT can be real because the whole ending did not make much sense to a lot of people even though the EC was added to the endings.

#32180
D.Sharrah

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Since this seems to be getting lost in the wave of posts...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Reposting for new page...

D.Sharrah wrote...

I had some thoughts about what the extended endings do to impact some of the themes of the game.  And while I don't want to over simplify what is there, I thought there was some pretty inherent conclusions that you could draw based on certain themes.  For the most part I think that there is some interesting stuff there.  Here are just some of my speculations (as it pertains to themes):

Sacrifice

Control - Sacrifices Shep's humanity (and IMHO not for the better, since it gives us the birth of Harpard, the new Reaper overlord)

Destroy - Sacrifices Synthetics/Tech.

*As a quick aside, notice that these first two are polar opposites.

Synthesis - This is one that I have struggled to find a unifying piece...the best that I could come up was Shep.  Since it is the only ending that some part of Shep does not live on.

Refusal/Rejection - Interesting enough this one was the easiest for me to see - Shep sacrifices the current cycle in the hopes that a better solution will be found.

For me, I still think that destroy is my preferred choice.  But what Bioware was able to present with the idea of rejecting the Catalyst is compelling...it seems that most have gotten there by turning around to shoot the Catalyst; but for me it was much more powerful when the rejection comes from the dialogue choices.  That option being present was more in line with my Shepard - never wanting to give up on anyone (its why he saved the Rachni, made peace b/w the Geth and Quarians, cured the Genophage, etc.).



#32181
masster blaster

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JezuzGumball wrote...

How do we know for certain that Harbinger is the one shooting at the very end? His voice is VERY distinct. To me, the scene when the catalyst says "SO BE IT" doesn't sound like harbinger, also when you hear "join us" just before Shepard is blown away. Maybe its a just a reaper?

Just a thought. Maybe I missed something?...


No I don't think so but it's funny that Shepard knew right away that that was Harbinger.

#32182
ThE_LoNe_R4nGeR

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Arian Dynas wrote...

Really, the literal ending just has a number of things that are quite simply CLEARLY intentional (since the require more programming to do) that from the sound of it are still there.

A literal ending has to explain the purpose of the dreams,
why the child can seemingly teleport,
why the garden disappears after the scene,
how the kid can move so damn fast from one location to another,
the scream you can hear when the music is turned off during the kid's death scene,
Why it is Shepard is NOT indoctrinated,
The Starchild's circular logic
Why it is that we do a complete 180 on the themes in the last 5 minutes,
Why two of the endings align so perfectly with the motivations of Saren and The Illusive Man,
Why the gun morphs in the Destroy ending, as well as why the sound changes,
The reasons for the presence of infrasound,
Why Harbinger didn't blow the Normandy out of the sky,
How the Normandy crew knows Anderson is dead, yet has no confirmation on Shepard,
Why the Starchild's voice changes in "Reject"
Why the Starchild TOOK the shape of a child to begin with, and how,
Why Harbinger seemed to completely lose interest in Shepard in this game since the last one,
What was the point of The Arrival if they don't make use of the info about Mass Relays blowing up,
Why Object Rho did nothing to indoctrinate Shepard, even though it IS canon,
Why the Indoctrination subplot was abandoned and never picked up (supposedly according to Final Hours)
Why Shepard starts bleeding after Anderson dies,
Why The Illusive Man has gone from "I don't need you" to "I need you badly."


Ill comment on a couple of these :)

They changed the cutscenes of the Mass relays exploding from the originals to show that the spinning *bars* go flying, but the relay is still intact.  The *explosion* is the crucible's energy being projected out across the star stystem(s).  In Arrival, the whole relay explodes.

Normandy Evac- I believe this was definite aftermarket filler that they put in with no other logical conclusion to how your squadmates (LI) got onto the Normandy and crash-landed on the planet.  Steve's shuttle had been shot down so they couldn't use that.  They could have used Maj Coats' shuttle, but he was on the ground fighting.... I think they had no other option but to suddenly spawn the Normandy nearby and have them evac your squadmates (Ash and Garrus for me) in order to explain how they crash landed originally.

Anderson- I figured it was a movie-type cliche that they knew he died.  More aftermarket filler.  In the other two, Shep's name is placed on the wall.  In destruction, (for me it was Ashley) its like she refuses to give up hope and refuses to put his name on the wall, even though both are presumed dead.  Its cliche because we know of course that Shep survived.  I think Bioware just took the easiest way out on this one.

As for the rest I cannot explain for the most part.  Harby's voice, Shep bleeding, Anderson still following Shep up (no other way to get to the control panel), Shep's dreams (especially the last one), Object Rho, and many more I have no argument against.  I still believe that IT is a possibility, but I don't think Bioware can come out with a 10-15 dollar DLC thats named *Reunion* because it would have to explain how Shep woke up in the Earth (London?) rubble.  Shep damn sure didn't survive re-rentry, thus practically leaving IT as the only way out.  Having a 10-15 dollar DLC with the "True" ending AFTER the Extended Cut would damn near cause a war against EA and Bioware.

#32183
masster blaster

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[quote]masster blaster wrote...


Yes, I played in headphones and I could swear the voices are there. I didn't hear Harbinger before the beam though.[/quote]
Check it about 3:23
Maybe I am just getting crazy.

And sorry for the pile of quotes, tablets and BSN are not friendly each other.[/quote]

Guys notice that when Shepard turns around to look at Harbinger Shepard makes a face at harbinger becasue maybe it's looking at Shepard and not blasting hammer to bit's and what the heck are the Alliaince soldiers shooting at.

[/quote]

guys can some please help me understand why Shepard is shocked to find Harbinger just staring at Shepard.

[/quote]

#32184
D.Sharrah

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MaximizedAction wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Did anyone else feel like they made the mix of Shep's voice/child's voice for the Catalyst more apparent? I felt like it was alot easier to hear the Male Shep voice that was mixed in (while playing my Male Shep - haven't played fem Shep through the EC yet). If they did, why? The only thing that I can come up with is if it is more apparent to try to convince Shep that the ideas for the choices are his/her own...



To everyone that responded...did this give you more hope for IT?  It did for me...I still can't put my finger on it, but there is something fishy about the EC...


Sure it's fishy. At least now, it is more a fleshed-out-kind-of-fishy. :D

But I also think it is now better explainable with the literal endings. If you trust the Catalyst, then a lot seems to make sense now, not everything, but most stuff.


I don't know...

Control - just down right sinister, amlost creepingly so.

Synthesis - Looks pretty on the surface, best paced and easily the one that stirred the most emotion (IMHO).  But it just has that too good to be true feeling to it...

Destroy - was oddly flat, almost no emotion there for me.  Maybe because too much of response was tied up with expecting to actually see the reunion w/the crew and LI.

Reject - was compelling, if destroy wasn't an option, I think I would pick this.  But it just left it too open ended...

Like I said in the edit to my post, I get the feeling that they are holding something else back - something that will only unlock with future DLC? - there is just something about the way the catalyst says, "....the Crucible, is mostly intact..."; despite my EMS being over 7000...

#32185
McWhitey3

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McWhitey3 wrote...

Does anyone else think that the EC endings now just really show what Shep would be thinking after the decision is made. I read another comment somewhere that spoke of this. The epilogue scenes are really what Shep is thinking to justify his decision. The example given was the destroy with high EMS. The LI not putting his name on the wall. The other endings show the LI putting Shepards name up there because he/herself knows that (s)he is going to die (from what starkid says) with the control or synthesis choices. (S)He doesn't know if he will in the destroy hence (s)he would envision the LI going to search for Shep. With Low EMS it shows the LI putting the plaque on the wall but this could just mean that with low EMS Shep knows that the battle is lost.

Also you also need to think about the stargazer part. Why in the control ending would this need to be there? Shep is now ReaperShep and everyone would keep their tech and probably grow to more advanced tech. In synthesis I am sure I didnt see the strange green circuits anywhere in the scene?


Shameless self-quote but this bored is moving fast and want to get someone's opinions before gets buried 1000 pages back. :)

#32186
paxxton

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D.Sharrah wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Did anyone else feel like they made the mix of Shep's voice/child's voice for the Catalyst more apparent? I felt like it was alot easier to hear the Male Shep voice that was mixed in (while playing my Male Shep - haven't played fem Shep through the EC yet). If they did, why? The only thing that I can come up with is if it is more apparent to try to convince Shep that the ideas for the choices are his/her own...



To everyone that responded...did this give you more hope for IT?  It did for me...I still can't put my finger on it, but there is something fishy about the EC...

Edit:  I still think that there might be more to it...unlocked with future DLC, maybe?

I...don't know. It may be just that as the Starchild takes the form of a child from his memory, he also imitates Shepard's voice. But it's all fishy.

#32187
Turbo_J

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Ravereth wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

According to IMDB Keith Szarabajka (Harbinger) recorded lines for additional voices in ME3.


Yeah if you pay close attention. You'll hear Harbinger's voice before he shoots Shepard. Not in english but he does speak.

"Join Us" is in English as far as I know. Posted Image


Que?

He says "Join Us".


Sounds more like "Serve Us" :bandit:


In that clip is sounded like 'Join us'. In my own recording I got 'Save us'. It may have something to do with Paragon/Renegade and perhaps Reputation points. Who knows.

#32188
comrade gando

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Andromidius wrote...

Oh, and the Control ending is shown as having NO downsides beyond Shepard being 'dead'. Seriously?

Oh, and is it just me or does Shepard sound like he's reading TIM's script during his Reaper-God scene? Great principles you had there, champ.


I was thinking the same thing. It's seriously like there are no downsides to picking TIM's control and saren's synthesis. wtf man. shepard taking a breath at the end of destroy just puts this back at square one with indoctrination. all the inconsitencies and most of the plot holes still remain in those final 20 minutes. if bioware is trying to tell us that RGB actually really happen and shepard wasn't being indoctrinated, why in the mother of ass did they keep all those inconsistencies??? ****s and giggles I guess. starchild also turning in to harbinger for a second just makes me even more suspicious. WHY did his voice turn into harbinger's voice? ****s and giggles, artistic integrity, too videogamey w/e /pout

#32189
ThE_LoNe_R4nGeR

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boeloe wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


Here we go again. Anyone know how to go through the DLC files? I have an sfar file.


sfar Explorer

http://www.mediafire...nwkwo87kmw57lpr


It has a topic here: http://forum.xentax....t=8500&start=75


Male Shep's voice was definitely WAY more pronounced in the EC coming from the Catalyst.

I have 5.1 surround sound, and Shep's voice was coming from the CENTER speaker while Starbrat was spewing his poison.  Before, I could only barely hear it well was from the left (i think?) speaker.

Initially i thought it might have been rushed, and the sound just wasn't done properly on the DLC, hence the exaggerated Male Shep voice.  But I dunno.  Maybe its related to the IT in some way.

It didnt happen all the time, it seemed to fade in and out of the center speaker.  I couldnt tell you on which lines, though.  It is interesting, regardless.

Modifié par ThE_LoNe_R4nGeR, 27 juin 2012 - 11:35 .


#32190
D.Sharrah

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paxxton wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

D.Sharrah wrote...

Did anyone else feel like they made the mix of Shep's voice/child's voice for the Catalyst more apparent? I felt like it was alot easier to hear the Male Shep voice that was mixed in (while playing my Male Shep - haven't played fem Shep through the EC yet). If they did, why? The only thing that I can come up with is if it is more apparent to try to convince Shep that the ideas for the choices are his/her own...



To everyone that responded...did this give you more hope for IT?  It did for me...I still can't put my finger on it, but there is something fishy about the EC...

Edit:  I still think that there might be more to it...unlocked with future DLC, maybe?

I...don't know. It may be just that as the Starchild takes the form of a child from his memory, he also imitates Shepard's voice. But it's all fishy.


Where's a "fish smiley" when you  need it...I would be slapping it all over the EC!Posted Image

#32191
EpyonX3

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TSA_383 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Ravereth wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

According to IMDB Keith Szarabajka (Harbinger) recorded lines for additional voices in ME3.


Yeah if you pay close attention. You'll hear Harbinger's voice before he shoots Shepard. Not in english but he does speak.

"Join Us" is in English as far as I know. Posted Image


Que?

He says "Join Us".


Sounds more like "Serve Us" :bandit:


Here we go again. Anyone know how to go through the DLC files? I have an sfar file.


Gibbed SFX unpacker opens it ;)


I'll try that thanks!

#32192
EpyonX3

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boeloe wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


Here we go again. Anyone know how to go through the DLC files? I have an sfar file.


sfar Explorer

http://www.mediafire...nwkwo87kmw57lpr


It has a topic here: http://forum.xentax....t=8500&start=75


I'll try this too! Thanks!

#32193
D.Sharrah

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@Turbo_J: First time I have had a chance to say this to you...nice work on Hellish's video. I enjoyed it and you (and Hellish) are to be commended for all of your hard work. Thanks!

#32194
smokingotter1

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[quote]masster blaster wrote...

[quote]masster blaster wrote...


Yes, I played in headphones and I could swear the voices are there. I didn't hear Harbinger before the beam though.[/quote]
Check it about 3:23
Maybe I am just getting crazy.

And sorry for the pile of quotes, tablets and BSN are not friendly each other.[/quote]

Guys notice that when Shepard turns around to look at Harbinger Shepard makes a face at harbinger becasue maybe it's looking at Shepard and not blasting hammer to bit's and what the heck are the Alliaince soldiers shooting at.

[/quote]


Yes @3:23 the reaper is clearly heard saying "join us" than laser to the face!

Modifié par smokingotter1, 27 juin 2012 - 11:39 .


#32195
XXIceColdXX

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So can anyone here give an explanation on how IT is still possible now that the refuse option doesn't awaken Shepard?

#32196
BatmanTurian

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FellishBeast wrote...

Anything interesting happen? I don't have the will to catch up with this thread x]


I posted this, and cited you as a source of inspiration.

Basically, I'm going for the waking nightmare theory from beam to the decision in the decision chamber. And some other stuff still seems viable. But i explained how I felt the story went, and why I felt it went wrong and where.

#32197
Auralius Carolus

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Hey fellas! I'm back!

Well, June 26 has come and gone and the ending stick sucks- considering the rest of the series.

So, what have we learned?

#32198
EpyonX3

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Well I know why the DLC is so big now. Each video clip comes in 4 different languages.

#32199
comrade gando

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Auralius Carolus wrote...

Hey fellas! I'm back!

Well, June 26 has come and gone and the ending stick sucks- considering the rest of the series.

So, what have we learned?


No playing on the pool table :(

jk don't get hyped up about anything bioware says anymore. it's all garbage and until they fix this broke ass ending I'm not spending money on their games.

#32200
waldstr18

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Auralius Carolus wrote...

Hey fellas! I'm back!

Well, June 26 has come and gone and the ending stick sucks- considering the rest of the series.

So, what have we learned?


that there is no idt but some people dont want to accept that, so they keep speculating and hording more ridiculous "evidence"?