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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#32226
Turbo_J

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Auralius Carolus wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

Ok when meeting up with TIM/Anderson is the whispers a lot more audible this time? Also when Shepard talks to TIM about breaking their hold "don't let them control you" the camera this time in EC makes it look like she/he is speaking directly to you the player, weird.


I too was getting the impression that the whispers were clearer and louder; that was about the only thing I noticed about Cronos station- the dream before. I haven't gone over enough for analysis though.

And I didn't notice the camera focusing on the player.


I think there is new dialog in the dream whispers as well, not just a volume bump. I'm doing an NG+ once I'm done with some clip mining in ME1 and ME2 so I'll take vid for analysis.

I already found that they fixed the 'door opens to mars atmosphere' during Priority: Mars Archives. It now looks like a lab with LCDs and windows set in the back wall of the room... no more mountain view. That open door should have vented the room Shep and squad were in and it did not. I think it was fixed so people would not think it was a 'dream' way back there. I think the fish were fixed for the same reason, though I thought it was cool seeing them floating around the cabin.

#32227
paxxton

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ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

No really, guys.
How did the rest of shepard's crew get on the normandy when they were all at the FOB saying final goodbyes, the shuttles were shot down just getting there, and Normandy joined Sword in the fight against the reapers?
Teleporting squadmates? Still a thing.

How is that the Normandy wasn't shot down by Harbinger?

#32228
Nightingale

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Arian Dynas wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Really, the literal ending just has a
number of things that are quite simply CLEARLY intentional (since the
require more programming to do) that from the sound of it are still
there.

A literal ending has to explain the purpose of the dreams,
why the child can seemingly teleport,
why the garden disappears after the scene,
how the kid can move so damn fast from one location to another,
the scream you can hear when the music is turned off during the kid's death scene,
Why it is Shepard is NOT indoctrinated,
The Starchild's circular logic
Why it is that we do a complete 180 on the themes in the last 5 minutes,
Why two of the endings align so perfectly with the motivations of Saren and The Illusive Man,
Why the gun morphs in the Destroy ending, as well as why the sound changes,
The reasons for the presence of infrasound,
Why Harbinger didn't blow the Normandy out of the sky,
How the Normandy crew knows Anderson is dead, yet has no confirmation on Shepard,
Why the Starchild's voice changes in "Reject"
Why the Starchild TOOK the shape of a child to begin with, and how,
Why Harbinger seemed to completely lose interest in Shepard in this game since the last one,
What was the point of The Arrival if they don't make use of the info about Mass Relays blowing up,
Why Object Rho did nothing to indoctrinate Shepard, even though it IS canon,
Why the Indoctrination subplot was abandoned and never picked up (supposedly according to Final Hours)
Why Shepard starts bleeding after Anderson dies,
Why The Illusive Man has gone from "I don't need you" to "I need you badly."

In a literal ending, my best guess is...
The dreams really are just a poor attempt at PTSD.
They somewhat explained some of the circular logic.
Harbinger left the Normandy because plot armour?
Perhaps Hackett heard the last conversation with Anderson.
Starchild wanted a form familiar to Shepard (which works both for IT and literally).
Harbinger doesn't lose interest, it just has more important things to do. He's supposedly a leader of sorts.
Is Shepard still bleeding during the EC? I must've missed more than I thought...
Everything else, your guess is as good as mine. It all supports IT, for sure.


So... let's see the explanations then are;
Bad writing
Bad writing
Bad writing
Bad writing
Assumption
Assumption

There are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more perhapses in those explanations than I am happy with.

I never said it was a good explanation :whistle:
I don't really believe their writing is bad, but from a literalist stance, some things are simply just missing their mark. Maybe I'm just explaining my point badly since I'm biased towards IT. 
They needed a "face" for the people still on Earth and a reminder that that was where the game was headed. That face happened to be the child at the beginning and, again taking it all at face-value, they wanted this to haunt Shepard. I don't think it's so much about the child himself as the concept of the child. It's why the Reapers would take that as the familiar form to take when speaking to Shepard at the end.
The circular logic does make more sense now if you fully question the Catalyst. The reason I say some of it is the fact that he says his organic creators created him, a synthetic, to stop organics from creating synthetics that kill organics, so he in turn turned his creators into synthetics to stop organics from creating synthetics that destroy organics...Phew, that's confusing...and I may have just talked myself into a circle. If you ignore this fact, he really could be trying to stop synthetics from destroying organics and he simply does not think of the Reapers as synthetics, since they are..."preserved" organic species.
Harbinger not destorying the Normandy...all I can think is that they still need Shepard. Initially, I thought this would only apply to IT. But thinking about it, Starchild says they need Shepard for Synthesis. The Reapers want Synthesis, so perhaps they're not attacking the Normandy at the beginning because they want Shepard to make it to the Crucible and bring about their "final stage of evolution" even at the risk of their own destruction. They may believe that, after everything Shepard's done, that they can make them see why Synthesis is for the best. As for not destorying Normandy at the end, they either didn't want to risk Shepard's life in the explosion when it was too close and didn't get the chance once the stealth systems were active when it was flying away, or they wanted Shepard to have something to fight for. A reason to choose what they wanted and save everyone. If EDI is alive - which would mean keeping the Normandy intact - then they may see this as leverage.
I still stand by the idea that it's possible Hackett heard the final conversation with Anderson. It's pretty obvious what happened, even just with the audio, so he could've easily informed the fleets. They wouldn't know what happened to Shepard, since they were already crashed on Lost at that point. Communication may be temporarily down or they may be waiting for confirmation on Shepard before putting that name up. In the case that they do put up the name, in Synthesis the Reapers would have the ability to inform everyone of what happened. The same may be said for Control, but I've yet to play anything but Destroy so I can't really comment with certainty (not that I really can anyway, since this is pretty much all speculation).
I think that about covers everything. Sorry for the wall of text.

#32229
EpyonX3

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ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Better yet, how the hell did the REST of the crew get on the Normandy if they were all at the London FOB?
How did they even get to the London FOB?



The Normandy has more than one shuttle. Anyone you didn't pick for the push took a shuttle back up to the Normandy.

Modifié par EpyonX3, 28 juin 2012 - 12:10 .


#32230
Rifneno

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Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

Why is everyone so rude right now :(
Seriously, let's all calm down


Probably because of ex-ITers that come in and call us fanatics because we have long term memory.

byne wrote...

No amount of mental contortions will ever make it ok for me to either enslave the Reapers or to forcibly alter everyone in the galaxy on a molecular level.


What's wrong with enslaving the Reapers? There's some major ethical concerns with control, but enslaving monsters who have committed more murderers than we can even fathom is not one of them. There is nothing too harsh for their crimes. Especially since the Leviathan shows us that they are in fact making a conscious choice.

BatmanTurian wrote...

She probably has a guy. Also internet relationships rarely work out. Also asking someone out on a message board is creepy. Also you are probably joking and this post is a waste of time.


Agreed on all but the second one. They work out plenty. Half the people I know who have been involved for 5+ years met their SO online. Anyway, it's faster in the future to just say "think with the head on your shoulders." That's also the correct response for anytime anyone starts praising Jessica Merizan.

byne wrote...

Wait, literalists still somehow think the EC made IT less viable?


No, literalists do not think.

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Guys - how many of you really believe that the Citadel is the home of the Catalyst?
I know he says it - but people are seriously believing that.


Why would you doubt him?! It's not like the entire first game was about a Reaper trying to flip a switch in the Citadel which the AI could've done easily if it existed.

Earthborn_Shepard wrote...

You know, the Destroy ending makes sense to me now - I guess the tubes you're shooting are the Catalyst's mainframe, the collected consciousness of the Reapers, and by destroying it you disable them.


Swing and a miss. That mainframe shouldn't do anything to EDI or the geth. Nor would it require any of that nonsense with the relays.

paxxton wrote...

I'm pretty sure that if IT is considered by BioWare, we are guaranteed to have Mass Effect 4 with Shepard in 2-3 years.


And then Mass Effect 5 a few years after that. Can't let the cash cow dry up. Milk that sucker, screw the original plan, screw artistic integrity! It worked out well for Robert Jordan, right? ... Right?

Arian Dynas wrote...

Why The Illusive Man has gone from "I don't need you" to "I need you badly."


... I do not like where this is going.

#32231
Starbuck8

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Turbo_J wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

Ok when meeting up with TIM/Anderson is the whispers a lot more audible this time? Also when Shepard talks to TIM about breaking their hold "don't let them control you" the camera this time in EC makes it look like she/he is speaking directly to you the player, weird.


I too was getting the impression that the whispers were clearer and louder; that was about the only thing I noticed about Cronos station- the dream before. I haven't gone over enough for analysis though.

And I didn't notice the camera focusing on the player.


I think there is new dialog in the dream whispers as well, not just a volume bump. I'm doing an NG+ once I'm done with some clip mining in ME1 and ME2 so I'll take vid for analysis.

I already found that they fixed the 'door opens to mars atmosphere' during Priority: Mars Archives. It now looks like a lab with LCDs and windows set in the back wall of the room... no more mountain view. That open door should have vented the room Shep and squad were in and it did not. I think it was fixed so people would not think it was a 'dream' way back there. I think the fish were fixed for the same reason, though I thought it was cool seeing them floating around the cabin.


I suspected they might add small things to the rest of the game. I'm curious what else you find.
I THINK there might be a new conversation in engineering with Adams, Donnely, and EDI.

Ok my boyfriend is playing thessia right now, and as he's climbing out of the hole up the concrete, the concrete/ is glowing with blue lines... I think that is new.... :blink:

#32232
MegumiAzusa

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Glorious repost (was basically swept away last time and not really anyone commented :/ )

MegumiAzusa wrote...

My take on why Opt Out aka refuse is the new true option.

Just look at the new final sequence:
First off: the woman (yay for Wynnes VA, it just fits when you have played DAO) looks like an Asari, but with additional small spikes at about the height of the ear, this could be just evolution, or it could be something like an Asari/Turian hybrid.

Now the text:

"Did that all really happen?"
"We'll never know exactly what it was like, but yes. The Archives tell the true story of whose who came before us. ..."
It is never said if it is the next cycle or species who survived the Reaper war.

"... They fought a terrible war so we wouldn't have to."
This could be interpreted as the Reapers are defeated.

"And that's why we have peace?"
"Yes, without everything they accomplished, ..."
Defeated the Reapers?

"... without the information they passed down we too would be threatened."
Information about peaceful coexistence between Organics and Synthetics?

Sure it could be they only severely weakened the Reapers and the information was used to build countermeasures but as stated in ME1 the Reapers are thorough in their destruction and I can't believe they could let more behind than the Protheans. It is still presumed the Prothean beacons were corrupted, Nazara tells Shep she touches its mind after interfacing with one. Also the Catalyst avoids the question of who designed the Crucible and then proceeds to tell us they thought they had destroyed the plans? With all their spies? Seriously?
Oh and the full Reaper Rage Mode for the "So be it." is very strange.

In my opinion they had to change red and implement this new ending to keep the facade up so you couldn't just see "oh destroy is clearly different".



#32233
Auralius Carolus

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ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

No really, guys.
How did the rest of shepard's crew get on the normandy when they were all at the FOB saying final goodbyes, the shuttles were shot down just getting there, and Normandy joined Sword in the fight against the reapers?
Teleporting squadmates? Still a thing.


There are still a lot of plot holes.

For instance: Right before the charge on the Citadel Beam, Anderson is armed with a Carnifex. But on the Citadel itself, TIM draws a Predator off of him.

Typical Bioware lack of attention to detail on weapon loadout, or hint? *shrug* No telling.

#32234
Turbo_J

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EpyonX3 wrote...

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Better yet, how the hell did the REST of the crew get on the Normandy if they were all at the London FOB?
How did they even get to the London FOB?



The Normandy has more than one shuttle. Anyone you didn't pick for the push took a shuttle back up to the Normandy.


Why on earth would they all sit around and twittle their thumbs when the people from ME2 are in squads all over London getting ready to fight their own fronts? That's ridiculous and cowardly. Not one member of the Normandy would accept that for a second.

Even Victus is on Earth willing to fight... which is an IT element in itself that nobody talks about. No way he'd be there. He'd be with his fleet or securing shelter for the refugees pulled off Palavin.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 28 juin 2012 - 12:16 .


#32235
MegumiAzusa

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ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

No really, guys.
How did the rest of shepard's crew get on the normandy when they were all at the FOB saying final goodbyes, the shuttles were shot down just getting there, and Normandy joined Sword in the fight against the reapers?
Teleporting squadmates? Still a thing.

This time it's rather the Normandy teleporting, it just happens that it can appear behind the Conduit and Harby ignores it while it's just sitting there and later escapes while Harby is staring right at it? I don't believe that.

#32236
MegumiAzusa

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DrTsoni wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

[...]
The Starchild's circular logic
[...]

[...]
They somewhat explained some of the circular logic.
[...]

Its logic was fine first, now its totally screwed up.

Modifié par MegumiAzusa, 28 juin 2012 - 12:18 .


#32237
Turbo_J

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Starbuck8 wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

Ok when meeting up with TIM/Anderson is the whispers a lot more audible this time? Also when Shepard talks to TIM about breaking their hold "don't let them control you" the camera this time in EC makes it look like she/he is speaking directly to you the player, weird.


I too was getting the impression that the whispers were clearer and louder; that was about the only thing I noticed about Cronos station- the dream before. I haven't gone over enough for analysis though.

And I didn't notice the camera focusing on the player.




I think there is new dialog in the dream whispers as well, not just a volume bump. I'm doing an NG+ once I'm done with some clip mining in ME1 and ME2 so I'll take vid for analysis.

I already found that they fixed the 'door opens to mars atmosphere' during Priority: Mars Archives. It now looks like a lab with LCDs and windows set in the back wall of the room... no more mountain view. That open door should have vented the room Shep and squad were in and it did not. I think it was fixed so people would not think it was a 'dream' way back there. I think the fish were fixed for the same reason, though I thought it was cool seeing them floating around the cabin.


I suspected they might add small things to the rest of the game. I'm curious what else you find.
I THINK there might be a new conversation in engineering with Adams, Donnely, and EDI.

Ok my boyfriend is playing thessia right now, and as he's climbing out of the hole up the concrete, the concrete/ is glowing with blue lines... I think that is new.... :blink:


Just look how much tech is under that floor. I'm not sure the glowing
lines are new, but not many really pay attention to just how much tech
is there; or if it's part of the beacon, just how freaking big it is.
Seems unreal.

edit - got stuck up in the middle of the quotes...:blink:

Modifié par Turbo_J, 28 juin 2012 - 12:21 .


#32238
v0rt3x22

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Did you guys know that the objective marker after you get hit by the beam in London - is called "The Conduit"?

Modifié par v0rt3x22, 28 juin 2012 - 12:20 .


#32239
EpyonX3

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Something happens in engineering! There's a level and new dialog that goes in cat004.

#32240
EpyonX3

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v0rt3x22 wrote...

Did you guys know that the waypoint marker after you get hit by the beam in London - is called "The Conduit"?


Yes. That's essentially what it is.

#32241
TSA_383

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Starbuck8 wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

Ok when meeting up with TIM/Anderson is the whispers a lot more audible this time? Also when Shepard talks to TIM about breaking their hold "don't let them control you" the camera this time in EC makes it look like she/he is speaking directly to you the player, weird.


I too was getting the impression that the whispers were clearer and louder; that was about the only thing I noticed about Cronos station- the dream before. I haven't gone over enough for analysis though.

And I didn't notice the camera focusing on the player.


I think there is new dialog in the dream whispers as well, not just a volume bump. I'm doing an NG+ once I'm done with some clip mining in ME1 and ME2 so I'll take vid for analysis.

I already found that they fixed the 'door opens to mars atmosphere' during Priority: Mars Archives. It now looks like a lab with LCDs and windows set in the back wall of the room... no more mountain view. That open door should have vented the room Shep and squad were in and it did not. I think it was fixed so people would not think it was a 'dream' way back there. I think the fish were fixed for the same reason, though I thought it was cool seeing them floating around the cabin.


I suspected they might add small things to the rest of the game. I'm curious what else you find.
I THINK there might be a new conversation in engineering with Adams, Donnely, and EDI.

Ok my boyfriend is playing thessia right now, and as he's climbing out of the hole up the concrete, the concrete/ is glowing with blue lines... I think that is new.... :blink:


There is some new content on the Engineering deck according to the game files.

However, someone else can check, I'm off to bed :P

#32242
paxxton

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EpyonX3 wrote...

Something happens in engineering! There's a level and new dialog that goes in cat004.

Details! We need details!

#32243
MegumiAzusa

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v0rt3x22 wrote...

Did you guys know that the objective marker after you get hit by the beam in London - is called "The Conduit"?

It is from the start, I would call it a bug to show up again after getting hit.

#32244
v0rt3x22

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Are you guys just going through game files?

#32245
Starbuck8

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Turbo_J wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

I think there is new dialog in the dream whispers as well, not just a volume bump. I'm doing an NG+ once I'm done with some clip mining in ME1 and ME2 so I'll take vid for analysis.

I already found that they fixed the 'door opens to mars atmosphere' during Priority: Mars Archives. It now looks like a lab with LCDs and windows set in the back wall of the room... no more mountain view. That open door should have vented the room Shep and squad were in and it did not. I think it was fixed so people would not think it was a 'dream' way back there. I think the fish were fixed for the same reason, though I thought it was cool seeing them floating around the cabin.


I suspected they might add small things to the rest of the game. I'm curious what else you find.
I THINK there might be a new conversation in engineering with Adams, Donnely, and EDI.

Ok my boyfriend is playing thessia right now, and as he's climbing out of the hole up the concrete, the concrete/ is glowing with blue lines... I think that is new.... :blink:


Just look how much tech is under that floor. I'm not sure the glowing
lines are new, but not many really pay attention to just how much tech
is there; or if it's part of the beacon, just how freaking big it is.
Seems unreal.

edit - got stuck up in the middle of the quotes...:blink:


Yeah before EC came out I got really curious about Thessia and the temple and replayed that section to see if I could find any clues or even connections to the breath scene, especially because I remembered all that Prothean tech under the floor. Didn't really see anything then. Now I'm really curious again....

Modifié par Starbuck8, 28 juin 2012 - 12:23 .


#32246
Starbuck8

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EpyonX3 wrote...

Something happens in engineering! There's a level and new dialog that goes in cat004.


I've been saying that and no one has confirmed this for me that it is new.:pinched: You see it in the files?

#32247
Turbo_J

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TSA_383 wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

smokingotter1 wrote...

Ok when meeting up with TIM/Anderson is the whispers a lot more audible this time? Also when Shepard talks to TIM about breaking their hold "don't let them control you" the camera this time in EC makes it look like she/he is speaking directly to you the player, weird.


I too was getting the impression that the whispers were clearer and louder; that was about the only thing I noticed about Cronos station- the dream before. I haven't gone over enough for analysis though.

And I didn't notice the camera focusing on the player.


I think there is new dialog in the dream whispers as well, not just a volume bump. I'm doing an NG+ once I'm done with some clip mining in ME1 and ME2 so I'll take vid for analysis.

I already found that they fixed the 'door opens to mars atmosphere' during Priority: Mars Archives. It now looks like a lab with LCDs and windows set in the back wall of the room... no more mountain view. That open door should have vented the room Shep and squad were in and it did not. I think it was fixed so people would not think it was a 'dream' way back there. I think the fish were fixed for the same reason, though I thought it was cool seeing them floating around the cabin.


I suspected they might add small things to the rest of the game. I'm curious what else you find.
I THINK there might be a new conversation in engineering with Adams, Donnely, and EDI.

Ok my boyfriend is playing thessia right now, and as he's climbing out of the hole up the concrete, the concrete/ is glowing with blue lines... I think that is new.... :blink:


There is some new content on the Engineering deck according to the game files.

However, someone else can check, I'm off to bed :P


Maybe he'll actually say something about Tali being back. Not once have I seen Tali acknowledged by the other three.

I also want to find out if they fixed the Liara hurr-durr when She goes back to the ship to 'check' on Edi and then suddenly comes down with amnesia.

#32248
Auralius Carolus

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

[...]
The Starchild's circular logic
[...]

[...]
They somewhat explained some of the circular logic.
[...]

Its logic was fine first, now its totally screwed up.


It's basically a foreign notion of values now: The Reapers view their rigidly controlled conflict to one that is unpredictable; likewise, life is not valued as we see it. To simply copy it into a new platfrom, (the Reaper), in order to store the best genetics, knowledge and achievements is satisfactory. This also allows younger species to evolve without being impacted by the elder species.

#32249
Big Bad

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Yesterday, I was trying to explain to my non-gamer sister why I find the literal interpretation of the ending so abhorrent.  She has almost certainly never even heard of Mass Effect, so I tried to find something analogous that might make her understand...

Imagine that at the end of the Harry Potter series, Harry confronts Voldemort who proceeds to explain that he had committed countless murders and atrocities not because he was an evil dude, but because he was trying to protect all creatures with magical abilities from destruction at the hands of the Muggles.    You see, he says, Muggles will eventually come to learn about the existence of magic, and out of fear or jealousy they will kill everyone with magical talents.  Nevermind that Harry had only recently learned to get along with his Muggle relatives; and nevermind that the series has consistently attempted to show the harm that is done when people use a person's magical abilities (or lack thereof) as a basis for bigotry (calling people "Mud-bloods" and such).  Nevermind all that, says Voldemort.  You just have to trust me that the Muggles are your mortal enemies, and my intentions have been nothing but noble this whole time!

Then, because Harry is the only wizard that has come even close to defeating him, Voldemort decides that maybe he should change his tactics, though he certainly still believes that muggles and the wizarding community can never coexist.  He decides to give Harry three choices:

1) Harry can use a newly-discovered spell that will kill Voldemort and all his Death Eaters, but it will also kill everybody at Hogwarts and,  quite possibly, Harry himself.  Doing this will spare the rest of the wizarding community for the moment, but it will also not prevent the coming genocide of the wizards at the hands of the muggles

2) Harry can allow himself to be killed, but his spirit will merge with Voldemort's body, and Harry will become the most powerful  wizard in existence.  He can then use these powers to control the Death Eaters and use them in some unspecified fashion to prevent genocide.

3)  Finally, Harry could use a different newly-discovered spell.  This spell would alter all sentient beings so that Muggles would have some limited magical abilities, and the wizards would have their power reduced to match the Muggles.  Basically, from a magical standpoint, everybody would be the same, so, in theory, there would be no need for conflict.  This spell, has the unfortunate side-effect of killing the wizard who uses it, and only Harry is capable of peforming it (for some reason). 

After Voldemort presents these options, Harry, one of the most strong-willed and independent boys to ever live, accepts with little disagreement that what Voldemort  - the wizard who murdered his parents in cold blood - is telling him is the truth.  He then picks one of the three options.  Harry never sees Ron or Hermione again, and he never gets the chance to
settle down into a well-earned restful life with Ginny Weasley.  The end.

I know the analogy isn't perfect, but it pretty much conveys the reasons why I hate the (literal) ending of ME3.  The EC has done little to make me hate it less.  Basically, the literal endings "break" the ME universe for me.

Modifié par Big Bad, 28 juin 2012 - 12:28 .


#32250
Arian Dynas

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ThE_LoNe_R4nGeR wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Really, the literal ending just has a number of things that are quite simply CLEARLY intentional (since the require more programming to do) that from the sound of it are still there.

A literal ending has to explain the purpose of the dreams,
why the child can seemingly teleport,
why the garden disappears after the scene,
how the kid can move so damn fast from one location to another,
the scream you can hear when the music is turned off during the kid's death scene,
Why it is Shepard is NOT indoctrinated,
The Starchild's circular logic
Why it is that we do a complete 180 on the themes in the last 5 minutes,
Why two of the endings align so perfectly with the motivations of Saren and The Illusive Man,
Why the gun morphs in the Destroy ending, as well as why the sound changes,
The reasons for the presence of infrasound,
Why Harbinger didn't blow the Normandy out of the sky,
How the Normandy crew knows Anderson is dead, yet has no confirmation on Shepard,
Why the Starchild's voice changes in "Reject"
Why the Starchild TOOK the shape of a child to begin with, and how,
Why Harbinger seemed to completely lose interest in Shepard in this game since the last one,
What was the point of The Arrival if they don't make use of the info about Mass Relays blowing up,
Why Object Rho did nothing to indoctrinate Shepard, even though it IS canon,
Why the Indoctrination subplot was abandoned and never picked up (supposedly according to Final Hours)
Why Shepard starts bleeding after Anderson dies,
Why The Illusive Man has gone from "I don't need you" to "I need you badly."


Ill comment on a couple of these :)

They changed the cutscenes of the Mass relays exploding from the originals to show that the spinning *bars* go flying, but the relay is still intact.  The *explosion* is the crucible's energy being projected out across the star stystem(s).  In Arrival, the whole relay explodes.


Exactly, rendering what we did learn about Relay Destructions in The Arrival pretty much pointless.

ThE_LoNe_R4nGeR wrote... 
Normandy Evac- I believe this was definite aftermarket filler that they put in with no other logical conclusion to how your squadmates (LI) got onto the Normandy and crash-landed on the planet.  Steve's shuttle had been shot down so they couldn't use that.  They could have used Maj Coats' shuttle, but he was on the ground fighting.... I think they had no other option but to suddenly spawn the Normandy nearby and have them evac your squadmates (Ash and Garrus for me) in order to explain how they crash landed originally.


Could have just sent in a random shuttle. Or had Steve say something like "Hey commander, before we leave, I finished repairs on the spare, but I'm not going to chance it, so we'll take the one that's never been crashed by a rampaging 6 foot tall Puerto Rican."

ThE_LoNe_R4nGeR wrote... 
Anderson- I figured it was a movie-type cliche that they knew he died.  More aftermarket filler.  In the other two, Shep's name is placed on the wall.  In destruction, (for me it was Ashley) its like she refuses to give up hope and refuses to put his name on the wall, even though both are presumed dead.  Its cliche because we know of course that Shep survived.  I think Bioware just took the easiest way out on this one.


Ok, I'll give you the "presumed dead" bit. That I can go with.

ThE_LoNe_R4nGeR wrote... 
As for the rest I cannot explain for the most part.  Harby's voice, Shep bleeding, Anderson still following Shep up (no other way to get to the control panel), Shep's dreams (especially the last one), Object Rho, and many more I have no argument against.  I still believe that IT is a possibility, but I don't think Bioware can come out with a 10-15 dollar DLC thats named *Reunion* because it would have to explain how Shep woke up in the Earth (London?) rubble.  Shep damn sure didn't survive re-rentry, thus practically leaving IT as the only way out.  Having a 10-15 dollar DLC with the "True" ending AFTER the Extended Cut would damn near cause a war against EA and Bioware.


Ah but the logic then could be that it's NOT the "true ending" It's not the ending, much like how The Arrival was not the end of Mass Effect 2, The Arrival, Overlord and Lair of the Shadowbroker were all stand alone stories that take place between Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3, The fact that one had to integrate them into ME 2 was merely convenience, these were small seperate games in and of themselves that just used ME2's engine, with The Arrival being, in fact, the BRIDGE for Mass Effect 2 and 3. This new DLC isn't the ending to Mass Effect 3, you already got that. Shepard goes to London, fights a bunch of Reapers, charges toward a beam, gets blasted by Harbinger and then fights a battle in his mind, either dying, succumbing to Indoctrination and delusions of a utopia or of control, breaking free, or dying in a blaze of glory, with us seeing his dying hallucinations as blood leaves his brain for the final time. That's an ending! It's a cliffhanger, but hell, with the ending we got it's a cliffhanger already anyway.

An indoctrination DLC now wouldn't BE the ending of Mass Effect 3. It's the epilogue.