Aller au contenu

Photo

Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


55528 réponses à ce sujet

#32251
smokingotter1

smokingotter1
  • Members
  • 735 messages

paxxton wrote...

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

No really, guys.
How did the rest of shepard's crew get on the normandy when they were all at the FOB saying final goodbyes, the shuttles were shot down just getting there, and Normandy joined Sword in the fight against the reapers?
Teleporting squadmates? Still a thing.

How is that the Normandy wasn't shot down by Harbinger?


Because Harbinger doesn't just want Shepard, he wants the crew also. In one of my reddit posts I discuss images you see in the Arrival DLC hinting that if Shepard fails to stop the reapers his crew gets indoctrinated:

http://www.reddit.co...e2_dlc_arrival/

Plus if they shot the Normandy they might have killed Shepard or drawn him away from Harbinger to assist the crew/survivors.

Scarface: "Once you get the Shepard, than you get the crew, than you get the women!"

I think that's the quote from the movie.

#32252
Starbuck8

Starbuck8
  • Members
  • 659 messages

Turbo_J wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

I think there is new dialog in the dream whispers as well, not just a volume bump. I'm doing an NG+ once I'm done with some clip mining in ME1 and ME2 so I'll take vid for analysis.

I already found that they fixed the 'door opens to mars atmosphere' during Priority: Mars Archives. It now looks like a lab with LCDs and windows set in the back wall of the room... no more mountain view. That open door should have vented the room Shep and squad were in and it did not. I think it was fixed so people would not think it was a 'dream' way back there. I think the fish were fixed for the same reason, though I thought it was cool seeing them floating around the cabin.


I suspected they might add small things to the rest of the game. I'm curious what else you find.
I THINK there might be a new conversation in engineering with Adams, Donnely, and EDI.

Ok my boyfriend is playing thessia right now, and as he's climbing out of the hole up the concrete, the concrete/ is glowing with blue lines... I think that is new.... :blink:


There is some new content on the Engineering deck according to the game files.

However, someone else can check, I'm off to bed :P


Maybe he'll actually say something about Tali being back. Not once have I seen Tali acknowledged by the other three.

I also want to find out if they fixed the Liara hurr-durr when She goes back to the ship to 'check' on Edi and then suddenly comes down with amnesia.


If this is the conversation that I have heard, then it's an "argument/debate" where you have to pick a side. Donnelly is arguing that EDI is the ship, Donnely is arguing that EDI is a passenger on the ship. After each states something for their argument, EDI will chime in over intercom to say something that supports it.

Modifié par Starbuck8, 28 juin 2012 - 12:31 .


#32253
Sire Styx

Sire Styx
  • Members
  • 337 messages
Just finished the game. Well, I say just finished. I had to repeat the ending, because I thought the catalyst was talking a load of crap and accidentally shot him. Although funny, that part seemed to be a bit of a laugh at the expense of people who weren't happy with the endings. It's like they're going "Oh, still don't like the ending? Tough! Now everyone is dead!". It's like that 'rocks fall, everybody dies' thing I read about (on Tvtropes I think, lol)
(Edit: missed a bit out when I copy/pasted lol)

But yeah.... It wasn't so much "clarification" as "Inserting new stuff and removing obvious plot holes and making the hints to IT less obvious". I mean, it hasn't clarified the old ending. I could not have concluded much of what happened from what I got in the previous ending without a HUGE load of spacemagic, and shoe-horning illogical bits in (which this new ending seems to have done).

That bit about the Normandy really confused me. Shepard and their squad were running along, a car was hit by a laser sending it flying. Shepard's squad seem to narrowly avoid this then fall into a pool of what looks like Ribena (or Vimto). Shepard calls up Joker, who then casually flys the space ship down to the ground to pick your squad up. I mean, it's not as if there is a war going on, and it's not as if the Reapers are accurate enough to hit flying shuttle craft. Tali was also covered in blood, and surely if it caused that much damage she'd have at least caught the flu and died or something :S

The ending did go into more detail (not clarify) about things, but it wasn't a great ending. It was good, but it just shows how awful the original one was. This ending just seems to give proof for the lazy bioware/terrible writers theories. I mean, I'm glad I played it, but it wasn't worth all the additional time, money and effort they used to fix the original. Really, this ending should have been in from the start.

But again, I just keep thinking that to make the old ending fit in, they've had to add a lot of extra information, which requires us to just ignore the extra plotholes, logic-failures and everything.
I suppose I'm just a bit annoyed that the ending still isn't as good as I thought it was going to be and that (in my mind) they've removed a lot of things whihc pointed to IT (or at least made the literal endings more believable now).

Modifié par Sire Styx, 28 juin 2012 - 12:32 .


#32254
L0NEWOLF25

L0NEWOLF25
  • Members
  • 177 messages
So AngryJoe has said that IT is dead, I don't think he has even tryed to talk with people on here before he said that.

#32255
MegumiAzusa

MegumiAzusa
  • Members
  • 4 238 messages

Auralius Carolus wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

[...]
The Starchild's circular logic
[...]

[...]
They somewhat explained some of the circular logic.
[...]

Its logic was fine first, now its totally screwed up.


It's basically a foreign notion of values now: The Reapers view their rigidly controlled conflict to one that is unpredictable; likewise, life is not valued as we see it. To simply copy it into a new platfrom, (the Reaper), in order to store the best genetics, knowledge and achievements is satisfactory. This also allows younger species to evolve without being impacted by the elder species.

I don't care about the rationalization. I was talking about the logic which is flawed now. You still mix up logic with something else. The reasoning before made sense for a logic driven entity, now it doesn't.

#32256
Nightingale

Nightingale
  • Members
  • 756 messages

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Glorious repost (was basically swept away last time and not really anyone commented :/ )

MegumiAzusa wrote...

My take on why Opt Out aka refuse is the new true option.

Just look at the new final sequence:
First off: the woman (yay for Wynnes VA, it just fits when you have played DAO) looks like an Asari, but with additional small spikes at about the height of the ear, this could be just evolution, or it could be something like an Asari/Turian hybrid.

Now the text:

"Did that all really happen?"
"We'll never know exactly what it was like, but yes. The Archives tell the true story of whose who came before us. ..."
It is never said if it is the next cycle or species who survived the Reaper war.

"... They fought a terrible war so we wouldn't have to."
This could be interpreted as the Reapers are defeated.

"And that's why we have peace?"
"Yes, without everything they accomplished, ..."
Defeated the Reapers?

"... without the information they passed down we too would be threatened."
Information about peaceful coexistence between Organics and Synthetics?

Sure it could be they only severely weakened the Reapers and the information was used to build countermeasures but as stated in ME1 the Reapers are thorough in their destruction and I can't believe they could let more behind than the Protheans. It is still presumed the Prothean beacons were corrupted, Nazara tells Shep she touches its mind after interfacing with one. Also the Catalyst avoids the question of who designed the Crucible and then proceeds to tell us they thought they had destroyed the plans? With all their spies? Seriously?
Oh and the full Reaper Rage Mode for the "So be it." is very strange.

In my opinion they had to change red and implement this new ending to keep the facade up so you couldn't just see "oh destroy is clearly different".

That's actually very interesting. I restarted once the credits rolled (shot him by accident, knew I had to sit through 30 minutes again and didn't want to wait through credits when it was already late at night) so I didn't actually get this. It might be worth playing again for that. Do you know if EMS makes a difference? I had 8500 and wanted a "proper" ending, but if this is actually fully fleshed out, I may have to agree with you. Not that I disagree now, of course, I just still like Destroy.

#32257
Turbo_J

Turbo_J
  • Members
  • 1 217 messages

Starbuck8 wrote...

snip

Yeah before EC came out I got really curious about Thessia and the temple and replayed that section to see if I could find any clues or even connections to the breath scene, especially because I remembered all that Prothean tech under the floor. Didn't really see anything then. Now I'm really curious again....


Yeah, it looks like 'beacon' construct with the glowing lines through it - I use beacon lightly as these 'archives' are more than beacons, like the little one we found in ME1 on Eden Prime

Vendetta is a full on super computer; was built specifically for aiding Crucible scientists, but yet is found a third of the galaxy away from the 'plans' conveniently left in the mars archives...

"You were 'guided' when necessary, Asari" - Javik, 2186

"Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays. Our technology. By using it, your society developes along the paths we desire." - Sovereign, 2183

Almost any tech found cannot be trusted. The Geth are probably one rare acception to this rule in the ME universe.

#32258
boeloe

boeloe
  • Members
  • 104 messages

Starbuck8 wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Something happens in engineering! There's a level and new dialog that goes in cat004.


I've been saying that and no one has confirmed this for me that it is new.:pinched: You see it in the files?


I'm pretty sure it's a fix for Gabby/Donnely/Tali banter bug

http://social.biowar...7092/9#12766074

#32259
EpyonX3

EpyonX3
  • Members
  • 2 374 messages

Turbo_J wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Better yet, how the hell did the REST of the crew get on the Normandy if they were all at the London FOB?
How did they even get to the London FOB?



The Normandy has more than one shuttle. Anyone you didn't pick for the push took a shuttle back up to the Normandy.


Why on earth would they all sit around and twittle their thumbs when the people from ME2 are in squads all over London getting ready to fight their own fronts? That's ridiculous and cowardly. Not one member of the Normandy would accept that for a second.

Even Victus is on Earth willing to fight... which is an IT element in itself that nobody talks about. No way he'd be there. He'd be with his fleet or securing shelter for the refugees pulled off Palavin.


List of possible duties on the normandy  if not on the front lines:

Garrus: Weapons systems
Tali: Engineering
Liara: Intelligence and data processing
James: Security/Weapons
EDI: Controls the Ship
Ashley: LC, Takes over for Shepard in his absence
Kaiden: Needed for front line ops in the event of an attack after earth


Victus being there is entirely possible. Why not? What about Wrex/Wreave then? If Hammer can land why couldn't these characters be part of the landing crew?

#32260
Nightingale

Nightingale
  • Members
  • 756 messages

MegumiAzusa wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

[...]
The Starchild's circular logic
[...]

[...]
They somewhat explained some of the circular logic.
[...]

Its logic was fine first, now its totally screwed up.

I had a better explanation on why I think his logic was flawed on the previous page. I can repost it if you want but it's really just my opinion.

#32261
Turbo_J

Turbo_J
  • Members
  • 1 217 messages

L0NEWOLF25 wrote...

So AngryJoe has said that IT is dead, I don't think he has even tryed to talk with people on here before he said that.


He jumps to conclusions quickly. He did that with the ME3 review and then backtracked with IT. He's done it again, and will probably backtrack once he actually takes the time to look into the new information, and of course the old evidence that is still firmly in place.

#32262
Auralius Carolus

Auralius Carolus
  • Members
  • 1 424 messages

Arian Dynas wrote...

Really, the literal ending just has a number of things that are quite simply CLEARLY intentional (since the require more programming to do) that from the sound of it are still there.

A literal ending has to explain the purpose of the dreams,
why the child can seemingly teleport,
why the garden disappears after the scene,
how the kid can move so damn fast from one location to another,
the scream you can hear when the music is turned off during the kid's death scene,
Why it is Shepard is NOT indoctrinated,
The Starchild's circular logic
Why it is that we do a complete 180 on the themes in the last 5 minutes,
Why two of the endings align so perfectly with the motivations of Saren and The Illusive Man,
Why the gun morphs in the Destroy ending, as well as why the sound changes,
The reasons for the presence of infrasound,
Why Harbinger didn't blow the Normandy out of the sky,
How the Normandy crew knows Anderson is dead, yet has no confirmation on Shepard,
Why the Starchild's voice changes in "Reject"
Why the Starchild TOOK the shape of a child to begin with, and how,
Why Harbinger seemed to completely lose interest in Shepard in this game since the last one,
What was the point of The Arrival if they don't make use of the info about Mass Relays blowing up,
Why Object Rho did nothing to indoctrinate Shepard, even though it IS canon,
Why the Indoctrination subplot was abandoned and never picked up (supposedly according to Final Hours)
Why Shepard starts bleeding after Anderson dies,
Why The Illusive Man has gone from "I don't need you" to "I need you to believe."


The Chinchillas have labelled the most solid peices of evidence and made adjustments to the italicized/underlined portion.

All other issues are easily argued away with "Bad writing, change of plot focus, poor attention to detail, etc."

Now, thank the Chinchillas Arian...

Posted Image

Kissy Kissy Arian!

#32263
Arian Dynas

Arian Dynas
  • Members
  • 3 799 messages
O.o um... ok...?

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 28 juin 2012 - 12:49 .


#32264
EpyonX3

EpyonX3
  • Members
  • 2 374 messages

Arian Dynas wrote...

O.o um... ok...?


What's really interesting is that that guy somewhat resembles your avatar.

#32265
masster blaster

masster blaster
  • Members
  • 7 278 messages
Have you all noticed something at every end except reject in the epilogue. Donnaly and Gabie are on Earth, and where is Adams and Chalkwais in the PUTTING THE NAME OF SHEPARD ON THE WALL, or if picked Destroy not putting Shepard's name on the Wall?

#32266
Starbuck8

Starbuck8
  • Members
  • 659 messages

Turbo_J wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

snip

Yeah before EC came out I got really curious about Thessia and the temple and replayed that section to see if I could find any clues or even connections to the breath scene, especially because I remembered all that Prothean tech under the floor. Didn't really see anything then. Now I'm really curious again....


Yeah, it looks like 'beacon' construct with the glowing lines through it - I use beacon lightly as these 'archives' are more than beacons, like the little one we found in ME1 on Eden Prime

Vendetta is a full on super computer; was built specifically for aiding Crucible scientists, but yet is found a third of the galaxy away from the 'plans' conveniently left in the mars archives...

"You were 'guided' when necessary, Asari" - Javik, 2186

"Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays. Our technology. By using it, your society developes along the paths we desire." - Sovereign, 2183

Almost any tech found cannot be trusted. The Geth are probably one rare acception to this rule in the ME universe.


I also found this suspicious. And if all that hardware down there makes up Vendetta, how did Kai Leng download him so fast with an omni-tool. Well, plot advancement I guess, but yeah, suspicious.

#32267
Turbo_J

Turbo_J
  • Members
  • 1 217 messages

EpyonX3 wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Better yet, how the hell did the REST of the crew get on the Normandy if they were all at the London FOB?
How did they even get to the London FOB?



The Normandy has more than one shuttle. Anyone you didn't pick for the push took a shuttle back up to the Normandy.


Why on earth would they all sit around and twittle their thumbs when the people from ME2 are in squads all over London getting ready to fight their own fronts? That's ridiculous and cowardly. Not one member of the Normandy would accept that for a second.

Even Victus is on Earth willing to fight... which is an IT element in itself that nobody talks about. No way he'd be there. He'd be with his fleet or securing shelter for the refugees pulled off Palavin.


List of possible duties on the normandy  if not on the front lines:

Garrus: Weapons systems
Tali: Engineering
Liara: Intelligence and data processing
James: Security/Weapons
EDI: Controls the Ship
Ashley: LC, Takes over for Shepard in his absence
Kaiden: Needed for front line ops in the event of an attack after earth


Victus being there is entirely possible. Why not? What about Wrex/Wreave then? If Hammer can land why couldn't these characters be part of the landing crew?


Wrex is almost family, and no way would he miss a front line fight. If anyone from Palavin would be there, it would likely be the guy you spoke to on the moon that found out who the next Primarch was going to be. I need to reread his email...

Wrex also brain faded on the baby name again. He said on Tuchanka that HE may name a girl Mordin. On Earth, he claims Bakara wants to name one of the kids Mordin and he has no idea why... hurr durr or clue?

I was born in London...

Was it me or was Andersons sidways glance even more pronounced than it was pre-EC?

#32268
masster blaster

masster blaster
  • Members
  • 7 278 messages

Turbo_J wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Better yet, how the hell did the REST of the crew get on the Normandy if they were all at the London FOB?
How did they even get to the London FOB?



The Normandy has more than one shuttle. Anyone you didn't pick for the push took a shuttle back up to the Normandy.


Why on earth would they all sit around and twittle their thumbs when the people from ME2 are in squads all over London getting ready to fight their own fronts? That's ridiculous and cowardly. Not one member of the Normandy would accept that for a second.

Even Victus is on Earth willing to fight... which is an IT element in itself that nobody talks about. No way he'd be there. He'd be with his fleet or securing shelter for the refugees pulled off Palavin.


Well Victus is a General not an Admiral, so ya I can see him on the battle field so not really IT if you ask me.

#32269
Starbuck8

Starbuck8
  • Members
  • 659 messages

Turbo_J wrote...

I was born in London...

Was it me or was Andersons sidways glance even more pronounced than it was pre-EC?


I felt that little scene was more pronounced, but it's probably just me paying a lot of attention to that part ^_^

#32270
DJBare

DJBare
  • Members
  • 6 510 messages
This thread took on a whole new life after EC. not surprising I guess, but keeping up is a bit of a chore now, I don't know if this has already been said but....

Does anyone think Harbinger was asking for help?, we learned the reapers are the solution created by an AI, the race who created the AI were the first to become a reaper against their will, obviously the AI's logic either screwed up or the race that created it were not specific enough when they programmed it's instructions, the AI controls the reapers which were constructed from organics, basically the AI has them enslaved, what if it's a real nightmare scenario, the reapers fully aware but unable to free themselves from the AI, I'm not so certain the kid is Harbinger any more and that Harbinger is just another slave, these are just my thoughts, though I have stated in past posts that the Reapers themselves could be indoctrinated servants, after all, they are constructed from DNA and that means the essence of each race is stored in reaper form.

#32271
masster blaster

masster blaster
  • Members
  • 7 278 messages

EpyonX3 wrote...

Something happens in engineering! There's a level and new dialog that goes in cat004.


The what?

#32272
Turbo_J

Turbo_J
  • Members
  • 1 217 messages

masster blaster wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

ThisOneIsPunny wrote...

Better yet, how the hell did the REST of the crew get on the Normandy if they were all at the London FOB?
How did they even get to the London FOB?



The Normandy has more than one shuttle. Anyone you didn't pick for the push took a shuttle back up to the Normandy.


Why on earth would they all sit around and twittle their thumbs when the people from ME2 are in squads all over London getting ready to fight their own fronts? That's ridiculous and cowardly. Not one member of the Normandy would accept that for a second.

Even Victus is on Earth willing to fight... which is an IT element in itself that nobody talks about. No way he'd be there. He'd be with his fleet or securing shelter for the refugees pulled off Palavin.


Well Victus is a General not an Admiral, so ya I can see him on the battle field so not really IT if you ask me.


Um, he is the Primarch of Palavin! The leader of the entire planet. I don't think his people would LET him go to a front line war anywhere.

Modifié par Turbo_J, 28 juin 2012 - 12:49 .


#32273
Arian Dynas

Arian Dynas
  • Members
  • 3 799 messages
Oh and I completely forgot the husk eyes, the Reaper cables, the Breath Scene, Shepard's Survival and violent rape of scientific laws that Synthesis, which still remains unexplained, is. And we STILL have no reason to beleive the star child.

Also, just realized, even with the addition of Reject, it still comes down to whether or not we accept or reject the Starchild's thesis. Destroy is only an attractive option if we do not believe we are being told the truth, even Reject requires Shepard to believe what the Starchild is telling him is true and thus refuse to make a choice. Rejection is being noncommittal.

#32274
GethPrimeMKII

GethPrimeMKII
  • Members
  • 1 052 messages
Just beat the game. I feel like they copped out and did not side with either camp in this new ending.

#32275
Arian Dynas

Arian Dynas
  • Members
  • 3 799 messages

GethPrimeMKII wrote...

Just beat the game. I feel like they copped out and did not side with either camp in this new ending.


Pretty much. :mellow: