55528 réponses à ce sujet

[munnellyladt]

HellishFiend wrote...

I sent this as a reply to a PM, thought some of you might like to read it:


Reject is certainly an enigma for IT. I personally feel that it's presence among the endings doesnt detract from the core IT beliefs even one bit, but it is difficult to put a finger on what the outcome would be from it. Whatever it may be, I think it is safe to say that it is not as good an outcome as Destroy, because to quote Lieutenant Victus: "Victory, at any cost".

Choosing reject is rejecting victory over the Reapers on the grounds of not wanting to sacrifice his friends. If you've seen my Choose Wisely video, I highlight how sacrifice, and willingness to sacrifice, is a huge theme in the game. Reject is essentially choosing inaction over a costly victory, which would most likely lead to inevitable defeat.

Do you have a link of this vid?
i'd love to see it.

[MegumiAzusa]

Turbo_J wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

hmm Sheps last words:
"And I'll die free."

That says everything there is to say in my opinion.


Also notice how Sheps voice changes
"I fight for freedom, mine and everyones."
coughing, weak voice
"I fight for the right to choose our own fate."
no coughing anymore, voice gets a little stronger
"And if I die, I die knowing that I did everything that I could to stop you."
Sheps voice gets progressively stronger, even enhanced by the changing music
"And I'll die free."
no traces of weakness or uncertainty.

For this reason, I believe this is against IT because he's fighting the reapers by not picking any of the options and refusing to be helped by them. He should have woken up after that.

You wonder why this end is completely different? BioWare doesn't want to make a statement which is true. They want discussion. Shepard waking up after that would just outright confirm IT. Instead they jump x thousand years, and the only ones you can see are pixelerated, so you can't tell if it's an Asari, Turian, or something else. But it doesn't rule out IT. Showing it either way, Shep waking up confirming IT or showing the war disproving IT, would end any discussion.

But then you wouldn't have art imitating life... as in the Good guys vs. the splinter groups; one that desires to control the reapers and the other that wants to 'evolve' - or devolve from my perspective.

I don't understand what you are saying. How do you come to this "art imitating life" stuff?

[gpost]

munnellyladt wrote...

gpost wrote...

Now that I think about it, IF Harbinger says "Save Us", it could be in relation to the fact that they've been stuck in an endless cycle

To be honest why would he say "save us" when he tries to kill you?
Or like all the other times he wanted you dead?

The only thing I can think of is that while he doesn't have control over his body, a tiny bit of the original consciousness came through - like he was being completely controlled by The Catalyst

[Dwailing]

DrTsoni wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

I remember that someone brought it up earlier that Harbinger letting the Normandy go might have been so that it would have leverage so that Shepard wouldn't want to choose Destroy since EDI would still be alive.

That's the first plausible explaination I've heard.  Kudos to whoever thought that up

Though quite why they couldn't do it before or after the beam run...  Still seems...  Unclear...

Goodness me, speculation for everyone indeed.

That would be me
Anyway, "Serve Us" as a command is brilliant. If that was it, it'd support the dream/hallucination starting then.

Turbo_J wrote...
I had pretty good view bob all through London
this time. Not just on the final push. I think it's farther back than
the transport crash.

I did too.

Edit: Wait, why wouldn't they do what before the beam run? The Normandy only picks up you squad because they're injured.

The view bob was there for me, too.  A metaphorical representation of his resolve weakening as he approaches the beam perhaps?

[Andromidius]

munnellyladt wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I sent this as a reply to a PM, thought some of you might like to read it:


Reject is certainly an enigma for IT. I personally feel that it's presence among the endings doesnt detract from the core IT beliefs even one bit, but it is difficult to put a finger on what the outcome would be from it. Whatever it may be, I think it is safe to say that it is not as good an outcome as Destroy, because to quote Lieutenant Victus: "Victory, at any cost".

Choosing reject is rejecting victory over the Reapers on the grounds of not wanting to sacrifice his friends. If you've seen my Choose Wisely video, I highlight how sacrifice, and willingness to sacrifice, is a huge theme in the game. Reject is essentially choosing inaction over a costly victory, which would most likely lead to inevitable defeat.

Do you have a link of this vid?
i'd love to see it.

In his sig.



Its a very pretty video.

Modifié par Andromidius, 28 juin 2012 - 02:22 .

[HellishFiend]

munnellyladt wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I sent this as a reply to a PM, thought some of you might like to read it:


Reject is certainly an enigma for IT. I personally feel that it's presence among the endings doesnt detract from the core IT beliefs even one bit, but it is difficult to put a finger on what the outcome would be from it. Whatever it may be, I think it is safe to say that it is not as good an outcome as Destroy, because to quote Lieutenant Victus: "Victory, at any cost".

Choosing reject is rejecting victory over the Reapers on the grounds of not wanting to sacrifice his friends. If you've seen my Choose Wisely video, I highlight how sacrifice, and willingness to sacrifice, is a huge theme in the game. Reject is essentially choosing inaction over a costly victory, which would most likely lead to inevitable defeat.

Do you have a link of this vid?
i'd love to see it.

It's the one from my sig.  

edit: 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 28 juin 2012 - 02:22 .

[Vaya]

Auralius Carolus wrote...

gpost wrote...

Now that I think about it, IF Harbinger says "Save Us", it could be in relation to the fact that they've been stuck in an endless cycle

While that is a reasonable assertion, Harbinger has never shown this behavior before. Also, Reapers are likely darn-near programmed to operate without questioning their condition. If the Leviathan DLC is real, that would be the only known case of a Reaper breaking ranks and even it seems to retain a dark and savage nature.

Eh, I can see attempts to recruit Saren/TIM/Shepard as trying to find the best organics to stop the biebermonster. To find a way outside of thier programming to break free. I could read that both ways.

[Starbuck8]

Dwailing wrote...

Setzer Daven wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

Someone on BSN said that if your squadmates die right there, Harbinger says something like, "You stand alone"...

But I can't find a video of it, anyone know about this?

Looks false www.youtube.com/watch

You can hear something being said, but it sounds like nonsense. I can't make sense of it at all.

Reaper Speaks To Shepard

He's saying "serve us".  I'm as certain of it as I am that IT is true, which is very certain.

I am also certain of "serve us". But I think he may be talking about the sounds we hear Harbinger making, before that?

[gpost]

Vaya wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

gpost wrote...

Now that I think about it, IF Harbinger says "Save Us", it could be in relation to the fact that they've been stuck in an endless cycle

While that is a reasonable assertion, Harbinger has never shown this behavior before. Also, Reapers are likely darn-near programmed to operate without questioning their condition. If the Leviathan DLC is real, that would be the only known case of a Reaper breaking ranks and even it seems to retain a dark and savage nature.

Eh, I can see attempts to recruit Saren/TIM/Shepard as trying to find the best organics to stop the biebermonster. To find a way outside of thier programming to break free. I could read that both ways.

This is exactly what I was thinking

[Dwailing]

Starbuck8 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Setzer Daven wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...

JasonSic wrote...

Someone on BSN said that if your squadmates die right there, Harbinger says something like, "You stand alone"...

But I can't find a video of it, anyone know about this?

Looks false www.youtube.com/watch

You can hear something being said, but it sounds like nonsense. I can't make sense of it at all.

Reaper Speaks To Shepard

He's saying "serve us".  I'm as certain of it as I am that IT is true, which is very certain.

I am also certain of "serve us". But I think he may be talking about the sounds we hear Harbinger making, before that?

Yeah, I can't understand them either.  I'm going to listen again and see if I come up with anything.

OK, when I listened again, it almost sounded like, "We don't have you," or, "We will have you."

I'm pretty sure that it's, "We don't have you."  It sounds a LOT like that to me.

Also, is it just me, or do I hear the chimes from the ending flashes when Harbinger says that?   You know, the flashes of Anderson, somebody, LI.

Modifié par Dwailing, 28 juin 2012 - 02:30 .

[HellishFiend]

Starbuck8 wrote...


I am also certain of "serve us". But I think he may be talking about the sounds we hear Harbinger making, before that?

I agree that not only does it sound like "serve us", but it makes a heck of a lot more sense than "save us". "Serve us" makes sense based on the lore, "Save us" leads us to wild, baseless guesses with no foundation. 

As for the other ones that sound like robotic mumbling, we'd probly be wasting our time trying to figure those out, because we'd likely just hear whatever we condition ourselves to hear from it...

[Cecilia L]

Honestly, I think it's impossible to make out anything from Harby's noises. It's not like Overlord where you can actually hear what he's saying once you know what it is.

EDIT: If I'd had to make an interpretation though, it would be "join us", but I don't think we should read that much into gurgling Reaper sounds.

Though I did have an auditory hallucination yesterday that a marauder said "Shepard". Just one of those standard marauder noises that sounded like it.

Modifié par Cecilia L, 28 juin 2012 - 02:30 .

[Dwailing]

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...


I am also certain of "serve us". But I think he may be talking about the sounds we hear Harbinger making, before that?

I agree that not only does it sound like "serve us", but it makes a heck of a lot more sense than "save us". "Serve us" makes sense based on the lore, "Save us" leads us to wild, baseless guesses with no foundation. 

As for the other ones that sound like robotic mumbling, we'd probly be wasting our time trying to figure those out, because we'd likely just hear whatever we condition ourselves to hear from it...

I'll admit, it's possible that it IS just gibberish, but it DOES sound like Harbinger is saying SOMETHING.  And I think that what I posted above is a possibility.

[munnellyladt]

HellishFiend wrote...

munnellyladt wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I sent this as a reply to a PM, thought some of you might like to read it:


Reject is certainly an enigma for IT. I personally feel that it's presence among the endings doesnt detract from the core IT beliefs even one bit, but it is difficult to put a finger on what the outcome would be from it. Whatever it may be, I think it is safe to say that it is not as good an outcome as Destroy, because to quote Lieutenant Victus: "Victory, at any cost".

Choosing reject is rejecting victory over the Reapers on the grounds of not wanting to sacrifice his friends. If you've seen my Choose Wisely video, I highlight how sacrifice, and willingness to sacrifice, is a huge theme in the game. Reject is essentially choosing inaction over a costly victory, which would most likely lead to inevitable defeat.

Do you have a link of this vid?
i'd love to see it.

It's the one from my sig.  

edit: 

Thanks!

[TJBartlemus]

Dwailing wrote...

The view bob was there for me, too.  A metaphorical representation of his resolve weakening as he approaches the beam perhaps?

The longer EC is out the more it seems that I was right in my Waking Nightmare Theory. Also currently I'm working on a new version of it to inlclude EC, and/or a possiblility that BioWare could have merged IT/literalist perspectives. (I'll explain this in the new version.) Coming soon...maybe today or tomarro.

[lemonade that cool refreshing drink]

guys

http://social.biowar...ndex/10592642/1

now we know that it dose have a 4th voice thanks to the "refuse" ending sorry if this has been brought up already cbf reading about 50pages back since EC came out

[Auralius Carolus]

comrade gando wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...

I had pretty good view bob all through London this time. Not just on the final push. I think it's farther back than the transport crash.

YES I noticed that too. it's like why would they leave that in there, hell why would they leave ALL the indicators that what shepard is seeing isn't real (save for the evacuating the normandy scene). but even that scene gave us the part where harbinger very clearly SAYS something, but it's hard to make out. it can either be "save us" or "serve us". mmmmooorrreee speeccullaaating

I'm more than a little late on this, but I just noticed that Shepard has a similar echo effect as the Catalyst. This is a pre- and post-EC detail. The effect seems more than a little off, in some areas, to be an echo given the materials likely used in the construction of that room; it seems more like the body of the Catalyst is absorbing the sound and altering it, as certain fluids will.

Everything in that room expresses itself with that odd echo, including gunshots...

Modifié par Auralius Carolus, 28 juin 2012 - 02:31 .

[infinite_regress]

gpost wrote...

Auralius Carolus wrote...

gpost wrote...

Now that I think about it, IF Harbinger says "Save Us", it could be in relation to the fact that they've been stuck in an endless cycle

While that is a reasonable assertion, Harbinger has never shown this behavior before. Also, Reapers are likely darn-near programmed to operate without questioning their condition. If the Leviathan DLC is real, that would be the only known case of a Reaper breaking ranks and even it seems to retain a dark and savage nature.

True, he has never shown this behavior before - but maybe it's because Shepard is so close?

I'm not all that good at this analysing thing but perhaps we are looking at it wrong. 

If Harby did say "save us" it could just be to re-enforce the idea that the reapers are not the true bad guys, rather the starbinger is. The whole "the reapers are my solution", "my creators were made into the first reaper, they were not pleased" thing could just be the final attempt to make Shepard believe that the reapers are trapped and only reaping because they are being forced to. Thus, it is more likely that Shepard will sympathise and be more likely to chose control or synthesis and not destroy. 

If this has already been mentioned, I apologize. The idea just crossed my mind - and we have already noted that starbrat has lied before. Why not make up this elaborate reapers are slaves thing so you should free them because that solution appears to suck now? And why not have Harbinger look less menacing by not shooting down the Normandy and asking for salvation?

[Andromidius]

Dwailing wrote...


OK, when I listened again, it almost sounded like, "We don't have you," or, "We will have you."

I'm pretty sure that it's, "We don't have you."  It sounds a LOT like that to me.

Now i'm focusing, it sounds like "We Shall Have You."

/shudder

I feel dirty.

[Vaya]

Andromidius wrote...

Setzer Daven wrote...

You can hear something being said, but it sounds like nonsense. I can't make sense of it at all.

Reaper Speaks To Shepard

Something something you.

Can't make out anything else.  Its too distorted.

"your friends have left you" ?

[MegumiAzusa]

Dwailing wrote...

Also, I'm thinking about what Maximized and I came up with earlier. He says that he heard the Anderson grunt in the Carnifex sound. I'm not so sure, but I should probably listen to the Anderson grunt more closely before commenting on whether it IS there or not. However, one thing I AM certain of, is that part of the echo of the Carnifex during the final scene in the Catalyst chamber DOES play when you alt-tab out of the game. Is it the Anderson grunt? I'm not sure if I hear a grunt, but I do KNOW that I hear part of the Carnifex echo played when you alt-tab, and that's enough for me to say something is up. I think, though I'm not certain, that the echo is played underneath the drums in the scene. If someone else could check this out and confirm it (Megumi or lex0r? Would either of you be willing to check?), I would be a very happy Turian.

For the technical side: If there is echo you always hear it, even when alt tab, because of the way it was made. It grabs a set stream and replays it after a delay, that is why you hear it when alt tab. When using alt tab the source stream is set inactive and doesn't update the echo, because of that you only hear the echo up to where it was updated for the last time.

[HellishFiend]

Dwailing wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Starbuck8 wrote...


I am also certain of "serve us". But I think he may be talking about the sounds we hear Harbinger making, before that?

I agree that not only does it sound like "serve us", but it makes a heck of a lot more sense than "save us". "Serve us" makes sense based on the lore, "Save us" leads us to wild, baseless guesses with no foundation. 

As for the other ones that sound like robotic mumbling, we'd probly be wasting our time trying to figure those out, because we'd likely just hear whatever we condition ourselves to hear from it...

I'll admit, it's possible that it IS just gibberish, but it DOES sound like Harbinger is saying SOMETHING.  And I think that what I posted above is a possibility.

Yeah, its a possibility, but it mostly sounds like "we dont have you" based on the cadence of the words, and not because of any detectable enunciation. 

[Dwailing]

lemonade that cool refreshing drink wrote...

guys

http://social.biowar...ndex/10592642/1

now we know that it dose have a 4th voice thanks to the "refuse" ending sorry if this has been brought up already cbf reading about 50pages back since EC came out

Holy shisno he DOES!  That sounds a LOT like Harbinger's voice.

[Nightingale]

Dwailing wrote...

DrTsoni wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

I remember that someone brought it up earlier that Harbinger letting the Normandy go might have been so that it would have leverage so that Shepard wouldn't want to choose Destroy since EDI would still be alive.

That's the first plausible explaination I've heard.  Kudos to whoever thought that up

Though quite why they couldn't do it before or after the beam run...  Still seems...  Unclear...

Goodness me, speculation for everyone indeed.

That would be me
Anyway, "Serve Us" as a command is brilliant. If that was it, it'd support the dream/hallucination starting then.

Turbo_J wrote...
I had pretty good view bob all through London
this time. Not just on the final push. I think it's farther back than
the transport crash.

I did too.

Edit: Wait, why wouldn't they do what before the beam run? The Normandy only picks up you squad because they're injured.

The view bob was there for me, too.  A metaphorical representation of his resolve weakening as he approaches the beam perhaps?

Not sure. That's what I take from it but we've been speculating about this for...weeks, maybe months.

Modifié par DrTsoni, 28 juin 2012 - 02:32 .

[TJBartlemus]

Dwailing wrote...

I'll admit, it's possible that it IS just gibberish, but it DOES sound like Harbinger is saying SOMETHING.  And I think that what I posted above is a possibility.

What ever it is I'm sure it's a hint towards IT. Seems weird that the Reaper on Rannoch could speak perfectly to Shepard even though it was absolutely destroyed, while Harbinger has problems saying a sentance correctly. Hint that the Reaper on Rannoch was in Shepard's mind?