55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Big G13]

Arian Dynas wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

Regardless of the codex there's still the "4 eyes Prothean vs 6 eye Harbinger" arguement Possible there's a 6-eyed Prothean species if Arian's on to something with Proheans having different castes But they'd have to be plentiful and have the same genetics to make a Reaper that massive/unique.

I'm still disappointed we didn't get to see the multiple different Reaper chassis that we saw at the end of ME2, I hope one day they release a graphical improvement pack or something that varies the chassis, swaps out the Tali picture for something more unique and makes Allers look less like she's having an allergic reaction/dresses less like a trollop.

HEY, What do you have against trollops. Allers would be ............ fun.

[liggy002]

You guys have got to love that Legend Save file. I think the anti IT people are getting scared now.

[Arian Dynas]

liggy002 wrote...

You guys have got to love that Legend Save file. I think the anti IT people are getting scared now.

Eh? 'Splain.

[TSA_383]

Arian Dynas wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

You guys have got to love that Legend Save file. I think the anti IT people are getting scared now.

Eh? 'Splain.

http://social.biowar.../index/12038643
This thing.
Has very cool IDT-related implications.

[liggy002]

Arian Dynas wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

You guys have got to love that Legend Save file. I think the anti IT people are getting scared now.

Eh? 'Splain.

   I just think it's a strong point for the Indoctrination Theory.  Like anything else, it's not absolute evidence but it seems logical based on the Legend Save file that it is created once per character on the PC version of Mass Effect 3.  The LegendSave file is created only once per character and only after you have made your choice of Control, Synthesis, or Destroy.   Why else would Bioware create this file?  For simple stat tracking?  I don't think so.  I think that the EC was planned.

  Also, there are already save files in place for the New Game Plus so LegendSave is not for that.  If you try to replay the same saved game from the Cerberus base after you beat the game, the LegendSave game is not overwritten.  This means that Bioware is keeping track of the decisions we made at the end of the game.  Why?  It's likely because the IT is true and we will probably see more game play when the Extended Cut arrives.

Modifié par liggy002, 20 mai 2012 - 06:39 .

[TSA_383]

liggy002 wrote...
*snip*

By the by, if you want to help us work out whether the legendsave is doing all that, what we need to do is:

-get one person to play through until just before the cerberus base mission.
-get that person to upload a save right before starting it.
-distribute that save to three people and assign them each an ending choice.
-get us each to play through and get a LegendSave, then if we collect them on here I or someone else can analyse the files for differences.

[liggy002]

TSA_383 wrote...

liggy002 wrote...
*snip*

By the by, if you want to help us work out whether the legendsave is doing all that, what we need to do is:

-get one person to play through until just before the cerberus base mission.
-get that person to upload a save right before starting it.
-distribute that save to three people and assign them each an ending choice.
-get us each to play through and get a LegendSave, then if we collect them on here I or someone else can analyse the files for differences.

I don't actually have the PC version of Mass Effect 3.  I just own it on XBOX 360.  However, if there is something that I can do to help you through any of those steps, let me know.  It would ideally have to be some people that you trust and not someone who would intentionally flame the IT.

[Rifneno]

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

I always thought there'd be a 4th eye eventually grown into that human reaper, also wondered if ALL reapers have exactly 4 eyes under the metal as well as faces/parts reminiscent of their species. In the ending cinematic of ME2 we see a handful of unique looking Reapers that all get reduced to "Sovereign class" in 3, I assume to save on resources, but I think all of them had 4 eyes.... Now I gotta find that screenshot to double-check.

So you knew that they put extra eyes on Reapers when you said that there's a problem with Harbinger having too many eyes. Makes sense.

That's a fair amount of Reapers o_O
And I'm seeing at least 6 yellow lights on each of their faces..... Speculations!

And by "each" you mean two or three that are even approaching reasonably visible? And that's counting Harbinger? Still no. The one to his lower right is the only one I can see with six. Upper left one has four, possibly eight depending on whether those tiny points near the top count. The one to his lower left has five by the looks of it. It's extremely difficult to tell with any of them besides Harbinger since it's clearly focused on him.

Since I'm sure some people are hearing the Harby theory for the first time, it's not just the eerily similarity with his bottom set of eyes to a Prothean, even with this rather... unusual concept art:



I mostly considered it because Harbinger, when trying to indoctrinate Shepard, uses the exact same "oh no'es, teh machines will desstroy us all!" parody of logic that Javik says the Protheans believed in. They imply that there's no Prothean Reaper but the character that said it (EDI) was clearly not positive and said she was just making an assumption. But Javik claims that they let the Reapers harvest entire planets while the rest of the empire regrouped. If the Protheans weren't suitable to become a Reaper, why would they bother harvesting entire planets?

[gunslinger_ruiz]

Good lord Rifneno just ask me to bend over next time save yourself some typing. A few clarifications below:

Rifneno wrote...

gunslinger_ruiz wrote...

I always thought there'd be a 4th eye eventually grown into that human reaper, also wondered if ALL reapers have exactly 4 eyes under the metal as well as faces/parts reminiscent of their species. In the ending cinematic of ME2 we see a handful of unique looking Reapers that all get reduced to "Sovereign class" in 3, I assume to save on resources, but I think all of them had 4 eyes.... Now I gotta find that screenshot to double-check.

So you knew that they put extra eyes on Reapers when you said that there's a problem with Harbinger having too many eyes. Makes sense.

"I always thought---" Meaning I assumed it would eventually have 4 eyes, did not KNOW anything, not enough info to know, only to guess. Now that I double-checked the screenshot it's possible the human reaper would've had 6 but we can't know for sure cuz it's dead.

That's a fair amount of Reapers o_O
And I'm seeing at least 6 yellow lights on each of their faces..... Speculations!

And by "each" you mean two or three that are even approaching reasonably visible? And that's counting Harbinger? Still no. The one to his lower right is the only one I can see with six. Upper left one has four, possibly eight depending on whether those tiny points near the top count. The one to his lower left has five by the looks of it. It's extremely difficult to tell with any of them besides Harbinger since it's clearly focused on him.

*snip*

Rephrasing, "Of the three we can see somewhat clearly (excluding Harbinger), I'm seeing 6 yellow lights each on their faces, but some of them are spread out. The wide one on the upper right appears to have 4 but has what looks like 2 on each side Above the blue lights. Below that one looks to have 6 very small ones, or 4 small but wide ones packed into its face.  The one on the bottom left also appears to have 6, 4 in the middle seperated by the blue line and 2 on the outside of those sets."

[Destructorlio]

liggy002 wrote...

I think that the EC was planned.

Yep. Mike Gamble said two days after release that if fans knew what was planned, the reaction would be different. In other words: IT is true and they ALWAYS planned to reveal it with EC DLC.

Modifié par Destructorlio, 20 mai 2012 - 07:48 .

[blooregard]

Destructorlio wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

I think that the EC was planned.

Yep. Mike Gamble said two days after release that if fans knew what was planned, the reaction would be different. In other words: IT is true and they ALWAYS planned to reveal it with EC DLC.

Wouldn't this imply that Mac CAN in fact write his way out of a paper bag?

Seriously though I hope that was the case but I'm with Garrus on this "hope for the best, expect the worst"

[BleedingUranium]

Destructorlio wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

I think that the EC was planned.

Yep. Mike Gamble said two days after release that if fans knew what was planned, the reaction would be different. In other words: IT is true and they ALWAYS planned to reveal it with EC DLC.

The IT evidence itself is overwhelming, but that tweet plus the LegendSave remove all doubts from my mind.

[Arian Dynas]

Destructorlio wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

liggy002 wrote...

I think that the EC was planned.

Yep. Mike Gamble said two days after release that if fans knew what was planned, the reaction would be different. In other words: IT is true and they ALWAYS planned to reveal it with EC DLC.

I'm being misquoted. I don't think the EC was planned at all.

Does that mean I doubt IT? Heck no.

I think that the EC is Bioware doing EXACTLY what they said, making things more clear so that people can comprehend the ending better. For the simple fact that I think and continue to beleive their DLC plan worked out something like this;

1). Start up the ANN twitter feed, giving "Live realtime accounts" of the war and the events leading up to it, place the timeline to start the invasion on March 6th.

2). Design Mass Effect 3, plant clues both subtle and obvious to draw the interest of the fans, the ending is designed to be strange, out of place, but ultimately fulfilling and capable of satisfying the fans for now. Multiplayer is implimented to keep fan interest up. Fans keep speculating about the strange, out of place ending, staying involved and interested where normally they would finish the game and that would be the end of their thoughts on the subject.

3). Do weekly multiplayer events to make sure that the fans keep playing, even the casual ones, also integrate a story into multiplayer, since A. That's what Bioware does, and B. It gets fans involved in the story, they get to feel like real soldiers in the war. Multiplayer events coincide with classified major operations in the war, usually announced by Admiral Hackett.

4). Release single player DLC which again raises fan involvement and interest and keeps them playing, as well as speculating as more evidence and information comes in over time, in the ANN timeline, it is announced via the Twitter feed (usually the day before) and launched on the dates the events take place on.

5). Release multiplayer packs, representing various forces that enter the war over time, such as the Quarians and more Krogan as forces swell and increase, reflecting the alliegance of various forces, as well as their maneuvers against the Reapers. Which also keeps ME3 in the front of fans minds, interested, involved. thinking about, speculating.

6). Keep updating the ANN twitter feed, which eventually reaches the date of Chronos Station and the Seige of Earth, then to great fanfare, a final ending DLC is released, in which it is revealed the ending was in fact a big mind **** and that Shepard was facing indoctrination, some fans having realized this before, they reveal the numbers from the legend saves, showing the number of people they "indoctrinated" before allowing people to download this DLC, which follows the choice from their Legendsave, forcing them to live with the choice they made, showing them a different result and mission depending on their choices.

7). Mac Walters and Casey Hudson share a bottle of bubbly with  Dr. Musyka and Gamble.

Unfortunately, they flubbed the "satisifed" part of the ending, but got the "strange and out of place" part spot on, so they need to make it clearer that it was intentional, so to salvage their original plan, they have to make the EC, which they didn't expect to have to make, and thus they are forced to defend the artistic integrity of their ending, which was meant to be intentional, yet most fans refused to interpret from the get go, not having to expect interpretative value from a videogame. It explains their comments that they didn't expect to make the EC, why they seemed "hurt" that we didn't like the ending, why they defended their artistic integrity so hard, and why they refused to change the endings that are, from face value, a bunch of stinkers, but from IT perspective, are positively brilliant.

Modifié par Arian Dynas, 20 mai 2012 - 08:23 .

[Mystical Taurus]

Another point in favor of IT regarding Anderson. He says he followed us up to the beam, so that means he had to have headed towards it after Harbinger left. Therefore, in a face value world for the ending he should have countermanded Major Coates order to retreat. Harbinger's departure and the minimal Reaper forces around the beam was the perfect opportunity to attempt to make it.

[RavenEyry]

I did wonder when all this started if the reaction to IT being made was supposed to be "Ah, so that's it" followed by sitting back and waiting for the reveal, but instead they got "Noez! You are teh gay! Waltrs cant rite! Ending still suxorz!" and more copies were returned to the stores.

I'm kinda sad that my legendsave will tell them I was indoctinated, but I actually chose synthesis first to see what the combined people would look like (and was dissapointed by 'normal but with green eyes') then went back and properly thought about it, eventually deciding on destroy.

[OneWithTheAssassins]

Arian Dynas wrote...
*snip*

First gif ever!

[TSA_383]

Something I put up in another thread which I feel summarises the whole thing rather neatly:

"Think about it for a moment.

The catalyst refers to itself and the reapers as "we" and "us". It is either a reaper, or a reaper-like entity.

The "catalyst" takes the form of that young child.
Really, that means one of two things:
1-The reaper/catalyst is inside your head and using the child's image to manipulate you.
2-The child was never real, which means that the reapers are inside your head making you see it so they can manipulate you.

In either case, it would seem totally obvious that the world around you isn't as it should be.

But why take the image of the child?
Well, if the catalyst looked like this:


SHEPARD. SYNTHESIS IS THE WAY. IT IS THE FINAL EVOLUTION. A NEW DNA. EMBRACE PERFECTION, FOR WE ARE YOUR SALVATION THROUGH DESTRUCTION.


Then I imagine far fewer players would be willing to help it do this:



Ergo, rebel.

Look back to the scene immediately before with Anderson and TIM.

I have a copy of the full in-game subtitles, which, interestingly, note who a given character is speaking to at any point.

It's interesting, because we can see who TIM/Anderson are talking to in the last scene...
Hint: They never actually talk to each other. Every word they say is directed at Shepard, it is a classic angel/devil on shoulder type situation. Hell, when anderson has his "you're... indoctrinated" line, Shepard is listed as the character he's talking to.

A few more interesting things...
First, let's see some of the lines of misc dialogue from throughout the scene (usually activated due to rep/EMS).

Anderson's lines from the scene:


Now, how about The Illusive Man's lines:


I'd say it starts to become pretty clear what's really going on here...
But wait, there are plenty more lines in which TIM comes across as indoctrinated-as-****:





The whole thing is a test. You win by not giving in to their logic."

Modifié par TSA_383, 20 mai 2012 - 09:51 .

[estebanus]

Hello again. Anything new?

[Arian Dynas]

RavenEyry wrote...

I did wonder when all this started if the reaction to IT being made was supposed to be "Ah, so that's it" followed by sitting back and waiting for the reveal, but instead they got "Noez! You are teh gay! Waltrs cant rite! Ending still suxorz!" and more copies were returned to the stores.

I'm kinda sad that my legendsave will tell them I was indoctinated, but I actually chose synthesis first to see what the combined people would look like (and was dissapointed by 'normal but with green eyes') then went back and properly thought about it, eventually deciding on destroy.

Eh, play through again, it makes a seperate legendsave for each character.

[Arian Dynas]

Mystical Taurus wrote...

Another point in favor of IT regarding Anderson. He says he followed us up to the beam, so that means he had to have headed towards it after Harbinger left. Therefore, in a face value world for the ending he should have countermanded Major Coates order to retreat. Harbinger's departure and the minimal Reaper forces around the beam was the perfect opportunity to attempt to make it.

And since when you see him, he is entirely untouched, no bruises, injuries, cuts, his uniform is pristine, then he would have had a radio as well as every opportuinity.

[estebanus]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Mystical Taurus wrote...

Another point in favor of IT regarding Anderson. He says he followed us up to the beam, so that means he had to have headed towards it after Harbinger left. Therefore, in a face value world for the ending he should have countermanded Major Coates order to retreat. Harbinger's departure and the minimal Reaper forces around the beam was the perfect opportunity to attempt to make it.

And since when you see him, he is entirely untouched, no bruises, injuries, cuts, his uniform is pristine, then he would have had a radio as well as every opportuinity.

Not entirely, no. Anderson's face is pretty busted up, kinda looked like my mom after she fell down the stairs two days ago.
But I do agree that the rest of his armor/uniform looks way to clean to have been shot by Harbinger!

[Raistlin Majare 1992]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Mystical Taurus wrote...

Another point in favor of IT regarding Anderson. He says he followed us up to the beam, so that means he had to have headed towards it after Harbinger left. Therefore, in a face value world for the ending he should have countermanded Major Coates order to retreat. Harbinger's departure and the minimal Reaper forces around the beam was the perfect opportunity to attempt to make it.

And since when you see him, he is entirely untouched, no bruises, injuries, cuts, his uniform is pristine, then he would have had a radio as well as every opportuinity.

He ven talks to Shepard using his perfectly functional radio.

[estebanus]

OneWithTheAssassins wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...
*snip*

First gif ever!

Shepard salutes you!

[Arian Dynas]

RavenEyry wrote...

I did wonder when all this started if the reaction to IT being made was supposed to be "Ah, so that's it" followed by sitting back and waiting for the reveal, but instead they got "Noez! You are teh gay! Waltrs cant rite! Ending still suxorz!" and more copies were returned to the stores.

I'm kinda sad that my legendsave will tell them I was indoctinated, but I actually chose synthesis first to see what the combined people would look like (and was dissapointed by 'normal but with green eyes') then went back and properly thought about it, eventually deciding on destroy.

Well the funny thing about it? They aren't losing out on this at all. The only thing on the line is their reputation, which assuming this whole thing was planned will get completely turned around.

Returned copies? They don't lose any money, the distributing franchises like Gamestop and Amazon do, (considering Origin flatly refused refunds)  and the only thing they maybe lose from them is reputation, which if they turn it around by revealing this massive plot twist? They just earned back AND MORE.

Sold games? Put in the used bin? Cerberus network all over again baby, people buy those used games, they already got their money from producing them, now they get to charge an additional $15 for the actual ending. Cash money.

Well what about the people who sold their games? Wouldn't you go out to buy another copy of one of the greatest games ever that was suddenly vindicated by the most epic twist in videogame interactive storytelling history? Especially since now with an ending suited to it, it's perfect? They just sold the same game to a person TWICE. Jackpot.

Lost reputation due to the worst ending in videogame history? Not quite, it's now being actually advertised as "The Most Talked About Ending in Years!" and there's no advertisement like free advertisement, and you KNOW people will buy it out of morbid cuiriousity to see if the ending is really that bad, and plenty will remember the good parts and think "Hmm, that game was fantastic for 98%" and potentially go back to buy the other two. Ca-CHING!

And the prestige! (not the Christopher Nolan flick) Bioware suddenly will be rocketed to the top again as brilliant storytellers, completely vindicated in the eyes of even their most curmudgeonly fans after the supposed fiasco of DA2, as well as having pulled off a plot twist that would make M. Night Shamaylan cry in jealousy,  something other developers will dream of copying, but being completely unable to, cementing Bioware's reputation as tops in the videogame storytelling biz. EA will have conquered their reputation as this evil monolithic company, concerned only with making money (yet ironically, will be making more bank than ever, hmm funny, seems people don't mind that when they get what they want out of it.)

And revealing something this big? After the treatment the ending got on the news, you can BET this will be plastered EVERYWHERE. Yet more free advertisement. Not to mention everyone and their literature professor will be talking about it and dissecting it ala Kubrickian methods for years to come (just like we are now) they will have cemented their place as videogame legends.

Not to mention this will be a HUGE jumping off point for an entire FRANCHISE, Mass Effect just became mainstream, nearly as much as Star Trek and Star Wars, with a feature length movie, comic books, videogames, statuettes, three award winning games, the top of their respective markets, novels, patches, tee shirts, anime, all dragged into the limelight.

Think about it greedily if you must, EA is full of smart, undeniably greedy people,  do you honestly think they would possibly turn down a gold mine like this, with literally NO downside? IT is a win-win suitation for them, if Bioware DIDN'T do it or plan it, EA would be leaning on them anyway TO do it, their artistic integrity be damned! And yet Bioware gets to pull off a first in gaming, a truly interactive, involving storytelling experience, involving REAL roleplaying (not just Paragon and Renegade choices) with actual interprative vaue just like any well written novel, and a genuine artistic value.

It is literally a win-win suitation. And If I can think of it, you can bet your bollocks that EA and Bioware would.

[RavenEyry]

I agree, you just put my thoughts from the beginning into more words. I don't think EC is the real ending, they're only making it because clearly indoc isn't obvious enough and they want to calm the flames until the big reveal.