55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Arian Dynas]

Dwailing wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also,another piece of evidence more that I forgot in my list that have yet to be debunked, the post ending message from the Vermire Survivor, which in so far as my knowledge extends, you get in any event after EVERY ending, not just Destroy, which would give confirmation they found Shepard.

Yet as I hear, it comes around even if you pick something else (I don't own a ipad, so I have no idea of the specifics of how the Datapad app works.)

Huh, that's VERY interesting.  Even after Rejection, I wonder?

Don't know if it's been tested post EC yet.

[EpyonX3]

Xavendithas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Sounds like reaper talk to me.

Well it is a Reaper talking

It is garbled still.  But I can definately hear it, and if he's not saying something meaningful why the sudden focus on him and the sounds?

If it's meaningful, why not in plain english like he's been doing since ME2?

Your encounter with Harbinger on Earth is your first physical confrontation with the Reaper itself. The rest of your encounters have been through intermediaries or Harbinger seemingly speaking directly to Shepard in his mind.

edit: Not sure what the significance is, but it has to count for something? Right?

Reapers are capable of communicating with use in our language without organics as tools. Sovereign did it, Rannoch reaper did it and Harbinger did it if you played arrival after the suicide mission.


If Harbinger wanted to say something cool before he killed Shepard, why use reaper talk that he know Shepard doesn't understand?

[UrgentArchengel]

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also,another piece of evidence more that I forgot in my list that have yet to be debunked, the post ending message from the Vermire Survivor, which in so far as my knowledge extends, you get in any event after EVERY ending, not just Destroy, which would give confirmation they found Shepard.

Yet as I hear, it comes around even if you pick something else (I don't own a ipad, so I have no idea of the specifics of how the Datapad app works.)

Sorry bro.  I just checked it.  It didn't pop up with my recent finish.  I heard it happens when you start a new game.

[HellishFiend]

Arian Dynas wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

I think I got it.

Reject is Shepard refusing, but lacking the conviction to back it up.

Shepard, as he chooses Destroy is exemplifying the traits Harbinger most wants from him, determination, incredible willpower, ect, in fact he even just proved that he could resist the strongest hit of indoctrination yet, Harbinger would want Shepard more than ever by this point.

Rejection, Shepard is pussing out, at least to Harbinger, yes he is still determined and still resisiting, but does not have that trait of "Willing to sacrifice everything for success" that Harbinger wants, making him realize Shepard is not worth the trouble, so he kills him, Reapers win.

Wait, let me get something straight... Now youre saying Destroy winds up with Shepard succumbing to indoctrination because he is willing to achieve total victory over the Reapers at any cost? How is that valuable to the Reapers? 

No I am saying that Destroy means that he still has the traits that the Reapers want from him, Reject means that they decide he isn't worth the trouble and kill him. But this is just theorizing and not very solid theorizing at the moment.

I think I see what you're saying. In any case, the only thing we can safely conclude at this point is that for whatever reason, Starbinger is pissed. 

[Starbuck8]

Someone tweet Gamble or someone and ask what Harbinger is saying before blasting Shep

Modifié par Starbuck8, 28 juin 2012 - 02:58 .

[MegumiAzusa]

HellishFiend wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I sent this as a reply to a PM, thought some of you might like to read it:


Reject is certainly an enigma for IT. I personally feel that it's presence among the endings doesnt detract from the core IT beliefs even one bit, but it is difficult to put a finger on what the outcome would be from it. Whatever it may be, I think it is safe to say that it is not as good an outcome as Destroy, because to quote Lieutenant Victus: "Victory, at any cost".

Choosing reject is rejecting victory over the Reapers on the grounds of not wanting to sacrifice his friends. If you've seen my Choose Wisely video, I highlight how sacrifice, and willingness to sacrifice, is a huge theme in the game. Reject is essentially choosing inaction over a costly victory, which would most likely lead to inevitable defeat.

I disagree with rejecting is rejecting victory. It is rejecting the premise the Catalyst offers, Shepard is still fighting, but in her own way like she did since Eden Prime. "I gonna end this war on my terms." It is actually worded pretty similar to when rejecting to save the collector base. "I gonna win this war without sacrificing the soul of our species"

Well, I didnt mean to imply that he was rejecting victory altogether, just that he was rejecting an available means to victory because it would require sacrificing some of his friends and technology. That's pretty different than sacrificing the soul of the species, dont you think? Especially when said friends have explicated that they are willing to sacrifice themselves for a good cause.

You are missing the point of "I'll die knowing that I did everything I could to stop you!". She doesn't reject because of the ones she likes, she rejects because it would again mean using methodes provided by the Reapers. Notice the "you". Choosing destroy is using a method provided by the Catalyst aka a Reaper or the Reaper in Chief. Like Reaper technology provided by saving the Collector Base corrupting the soul of the species the Reaper methods provided by the Catalyst is corrupting and therefor she rejects.

[Dwailing]

plfranke wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

holy smokes harbinger DOES look at them. after shepard drops off LI tali in my case, he looks over and harbinger and harbinger shifts to look like RIGHT at them.. didn't even notice. ok so that explains that at least.

http://www.youtube.c...8fItbr0#t=1m21s

I've been saying this for so long and everyone has been ignoring me

Here's perhaps a more obvious question, what are those soldiers shooting at?   Harbinger?  'Cause I doubt those peashooters will do ANYTHING to it, and I don't remember any husks around.

[Arian Dynas]

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also,another piece of evidence more that I forgot in my list that have yet to be debunked, the post ending message from the Vermire Survivor, which in so far as my knowledge extends, you get in any event after EVERY ending, not just Destroy, which would give confirmation they found Shepard.

Yet as I hear, it comes around even if you pick something else (I don't own a ipad, so I have no idea of the specifics of how the Datapad app works.)

Sorry bro.  I just checked it.  It didn't pop up with my recent finish.  I heard it happens when you start a new game.

It didn't before, and according to Shepard, the VS never even tried to visit them or send messages while he was under hack.

[Auralius Carolus]

Some additional thoughts for consideration:

In regards to the Catalyst's makers: "They became the first true Reaper. They did not approve..." Could that be, perhaps, the Renegade Leviathan mentioned in the packaged files? Could that same beings who ushered in the Reapers aid in their downfall?

Catalyst: "The Crucible will not discriminate..."

Yet, how does it discriminate in Synthesis and Control? Only Reapers and Reaper units are affected in Control. In Synthesis, the reaction is so precise as to allow species and machines to maintain their original form, while still providing the necessary balance of machine/biological material.

Clearly there is something else that is not being told here; clearly some part of the reactionary part of the Citadel/Crucible can determine what is being effected on an astounding scale.

Either that or the devs just got caught in a logical fallacy, utilizing it in the name of providing a tragic ending...

[Nightingale]

Andromidius wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Sounds like reaper talk to me.

Well it is a Reaper talking

It is garbled still.  But I can definately hear it, and if he's not saying something meaningful why the sudden focus on him and the sounds?

If it's meaningful, why not in plain english like he's been doing since ME2?

Distance, lots of background noise and maybe because Bioware don't want it to be too obvious.  The garbled nature means you can make out different words depending on what you're listening for.  That seems deliberate.

Especially considering we got "Save us" and "Serve us" from the one that's easier to understand. It's a matter of perspective and what you want to hear. That's definitely intentional.

[plfranke]

Dwailing wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also,another piece of evidence more that I forgot in my list that have yet to be debunked, the post ending message from the Vermire Survivor, which in so far as my knowledge extends, you get in any event after EVERY ending, not just Destroy, which would give confirmation they found Shepard.

Yet as I hear, it comes around even if you pick something else (I don't own a ipad, so I have no idea of the specifics of how the Datapad app works.)

Huh, that's VERY interesting.  Even after Rejection, I wonder?

what are you talking about?

[HellishFiend]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I sent this as a reply to a PM, thought some of you might like to read it:


Reject is certainly an enigma for IT. I personally feel that it's presence among the endings doesnt detract from the core IT beliefs even one bit, but it is difficult to put a finger on what the outcome would be from it. Whatever it may be, I think it is safe to say that it is not as good an outcome as Destroy, because to quote Lieutenant Victus: "Victory, at any cost".

Choosing reject is rejecting victory over the Reapers on the grounds of not wanting to sacrifice his friends. If you've seen my Choose Wisely video, I highlight how sacrifice, and willingness to sacrifice, is a huge theme in the game. Reject is essentially choosing inaction over a costly victory, which would most likely lead to inevitable defeat.

I disagree with rejecting is rejecting victory. It is rejecting the premise the Catalyst offers, Shepard is still fighting, but in her own way like she did since Eden Prime. "I gonna end this war on my terms." It is actually worded pretty similar to when rejecting to save the collector base. "I gonna win this war without sacrificing the soul of our species"

Well, I didnt mean to imply that he was rejecting victory altogether, just that he was rejecting an available means to victory because it would require sacrificing some of his friends and technology. That's pretty different than sacrificing the soul of the species, dont you think? Especially when said friends have explicated that they are willing to sacrifice themselves for a good cause.

You are missing the point of "I'll die knowing that I did everything I could to stop you!". She doesn't reject because of the ones she likes, she rejects because it would again mean using methodes provided by the Reapers. Notice the "you". Choosing destroy is using a method provided by the Catalyst aka a Reaper or the Reaper in Chief. Like Reaper technology provided by saving the Collector Base corrupting the soul of the species the Reaper methods provided by the Catalyst is corrupting and therefor she rejects.

But he doesnt die knowing that he did everything he could to stop them... He had an option right in front of him and he didnt take it. At least, thats the way I see it. If we got the breath scene after the Reject ending I might agree with you, but the absence of it suggests to me that it is not an ideal outcome. 

[UrgentArchengel]

Arian Dynas wrote...

UrgentArchengel wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also,another piece of evidence more that I forgot in my list that have yet to be debunked, the post ending message from the Vermire Survivor, which in so far as my knowledge extends, you get in any event after EVERY ending, not just Destroy, which would give confirmation they found Shepard.

Yet as I hear, it comes around even if you pick something else (I don't own a ipad, so I have no idea of the specifics of how the Datapad app works.)

Sorry bro.  I just checked it.  It didn't pop up with my recent finish.  I heard it happens when you start a new game.

It didn't before, and according to Shepard, the VS never even tried to visit them or send messages while he was under hack.

Strange.  I did pick refusal on accident.  Maybe that's why.

[MegumiAzusa]

Arian Dynas wrote...

I think I got it.

Reject is Shepard refusing, but lacking the conviction to back it up.

Shepard, as he chooses Destroy is exemplifying the traits Harbinger most wants from him, determination, incredible willpower, ect, in fact he even just proved that he could resist the strongest hit of indoctrination yet, Harbinger would want Shepard more than ever by this point.

Rejection, Shepard is pussing out, at least to Harbinger, yes he is still determined and still resisiting, but does not have that trait of "Willing to sacrifice everything for success" that Harbinger wants, making him realize Shepard is not worth the trouble, so he kills him, Reapers win.

"but does not have that trait of "Willing to sacrifice everything for success" that Harbinger wants" that is why destruction is red!
I disagree on lacking willpower, in fact she does risk everything not to be compromised. Also I disagree with Shepard being killed, you don't see that! The results and outcome are completely uncertain.

[Dwailing]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Sounds like reaper talk to me.

Well it is a Reaper talking

It is garbled still.  But I can definately hear it, and if he's not saying something meaningful why the sudden focus on him and the sounds?

If it's meaningful, why not in plain english like he's been doing since ME2?

Your encounter with Harbinger on Earth is your first physical confrontation with the Reaper itself. The rest of your encounters have been through intermediaries or Harbinger seemingly speaking directly to Shepard in his mind.

edit: Not sure what the significance is, but it has to count for something? Right?

Reapers are capable of communicating with use in our language without organics as tools. Sovereign did it, Rannoch reaper did it and Harbinger did it if you played arrival after the suicide mission.


If Harbinger wanted to say something cool before he killed Shepard, why use reaper talk that he know Shepard doesn't understand?

Sovereign did it through a hologram.  Harbinger previously did it through a hologram.  They can probably translate it through those.  Also, as for the Rannoch Reaper, it wasn't about to try indoctrinating Shepard.  Harbinger was, in this case.  Think about it this way, if you want to say something intimidating, but don't want to reveal that you're about to INVADE SOMEONE'S MIND, but the devs WANT you to say SOMETHING that will lead to speculation , you're going to speak in something that COULD be words, but isn't OBVIOUS.

[Fingertrip]

paxxton wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

boeloe wrote...

paxxton wrote...

LT123 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Harbinger's Epic One Liner!

So you also heard it?

Whoa. When is this? After the squadmates get picked up? 

Yes. Just before the hit.

I threw the file into audacity disabled background channels and sped it up a bit. My best guess is "serve us" or "service" but that one doesn't make any sense.

Hell, you're right.  He's saying SERVE US!



Seriously, I can hear it clear as rain now.

Sorry, I hear "Save Us".

I'm hearing "Serve us" clear as day. The "SE" and "SA" is pretty exceedingly different in how you convey it. 

More IT fuel.

[EpyonX3]

@Arian

If that's the case then we should expect Shepard to wake up take a few steps and then go through another indoctrination attempt after picking destroy? If not then what else could they have interest in Shepard for?

[EpyonX3]

Fingertrip wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

boeloe wrote...

paxxton wrote...

LT123 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Harbinger's Epic One Liner!

So you also heard it?

Whoa. When is this? After the squadmates get picked up? 

Yes. Just before the hit.

I threw the file into audacity disabled background channels and sped it up a bit. My best guess is "serve us" or "service" but that one doesn't make any sense.

Hell, you're right.  He's saying SERVE US!



Seriously, I can hear it clear as rain now.

Sorry, I hear "Save Us".

I'm hearing "Serve us" clear as day. The "SE" and "SA" is pretty exceedingly different in how you convey it. 

More IT fuel.

Bolded is exactly why some hear serve and some hear gibberish.

Modifié par EpyonX3, 28 juin 2012 - 03:05 .

[Cecilia L]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

I think I got it.

Reject is Shepard refusing, but lacking the conviction to back it up.

Shepard, as he chooses Destroy is exemplifying the traits Harbinger most wants from him, determination, incredible willpower, ect, in fact he even just proved that he could resist the strongest hit of indoctrination yet, Harbinger would want Shepard more than ever by this point.

Rejection, Shepard is pussing out, at least to Harbinger, yes he is still determined and still resisiting, but does not have that trait of "Willing to sacrifice everything for success" that Harbinger wants, making him realize Shepard is not worth the trouble, so he kills him, Reapers win.

"but does not have that trait of "Willing to sacrifice everything for success" that Harbinger wants" that is why destruction is red!
I disagree on lacking willpower, in fact she does risk everything not to be compromised. Also I disagree with Shepard being killed, you don't see that! The results and outcome are completely uncertain.

Exactly. The time capsule could just be one that they forgot to dig up after the victory.

[Nightingale]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I sent this as a reply to a PM, thought some of you might like to read it:


Reject is certainly an enigma for IT. I personally feel that it's presence among the endings doesnt detract from the core IT beliefs even one bit, but it is difficult to put a finger on what the outcome would be from it. Whatever it may be, I think it is safe to say that it is not as good an outcome as Destroy, because to quote Lieutenant Victus: "Victory, at any cost".

Choosing reject is rejecting victory over the Reapers on the grounds of not wanting to sacrifice his friends. If you've seen my Choose Wisely video, I highlight how sacrifice, and willingness to sacrifice, is a huge theme in the game. Reject is essentially choosing inaction over a costly victory, which would most likely lead to inevitable defeat.

I disagree with rejecting is rejecting victory. It is rejecting the premise the Catalyst offers, Shepard is still fighting, but in her own way like she did since Eden Prime. "I gonna end this war on my terms." It is actually worded pretty similar to when rejecting to save the collector base. "I gonna win this war without sacrificing the soul of our species"

Well, I didnt mean to imply that he was rejecting victory altogether, just that he was rejecting an available means to victory because it would require sacrificing some of his friends and technology. That's pretty different than sacrificing the soul of the species, dont you think? Especially when said friends have explicated that they are willing to sacrifice themselves for a good cause.

You are missing the point of "I'll die knowing that I did everything I could to stop you!". She doesn't reject because of the ones she likes, she rejects because it would again mean using methodes provided by the Reapers. Notice the "you". Choosing destroy is using a method provided by the Catalyst aka a Reaper or the Reaper in Chief. Like Reaper technology provided by saving the Collector Base corrupting the soul of the species the Reaper methods provided by the Catalyst is corrupting and therefor she rejects.

I agree regardless, but you're saying it's like the way civilization advances how the Reapers wanted, this is the same sort of thing? Like what Legion said in ME2, they would have come to the same conclusion as what the Reapers offered them but they wanted to do it themselves. In this case, we're going to destroy them, but not by the means they offer us?

[Nightingale]

Dwailing wrote...

plfranke wrote...

comrade gando wrote...

holy smokes harbinger DOES look at them. after shepard drops off LI tali in my case, he looks over and harbinger and harbinger shifts to look like RIGHT at them.. didn't even notice. ok so that explains that at least.

http://www.youtube.c...8fItbr0#t=1m21s

I've been saying this for so long and everyone has been ignoring me

Here's perhaps a more obvious question, what are those soldiers shooting at?   Harbinger?  'Cause I doubt those peashooters will do ANYTHING to it, and I don't remember any husks around.

I wondered the same thing...Maybe they just wanted the scene to be more dramatic. It makes no sense literally or with IT...

[Dwailing]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

boeloe wrote...

paxxton wrote...

LT123 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Harbinger's Epic One Liner!

So you also heard it?

Whoa. When is this? After the squadmates get picked up? 

Yes. Just before the hit.

I threw the file into audacity disabled background channels and sped it up a bit. My best guess is "serve us" or "service" but that one doesn't make any sense.

Hell, you're right.  He's saying SERVE US!



Seriously, I can hear it clear as rain now.

Sorry, I hear "Save Us".

I'm hearing "Serve us" clear as day. The "SE" and "SA" is pretty exceedingly different in how you convey it. 

More IT fuel.

Bolded is exactly why some hear serve and some hear gibberish.

And you're so biased against IT that you refuse to even CONSIDER that he might be saying something!  OK, that was just me going for drama.  Honestly, I can kind of understand why you don't think he says something, but I really DO think that he's saying something.  Not just because I believe in IT, but because it honestly sounds like he's saying something.

Modifié par Dwailing, 28 juin 2012 - 03:08 .

[Vaya]

DrTsoni wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Sounds like reaper talk to me.

Well it is a Reaper talking

It is garbled still.  But I can definately hear it, and if he's not saying something meaningful why the sudden focus on him and the sounds?

If it's meaningful, why not in plain english like he's been doing since ME2?

Distance, lots of background noise and maybe because Bioware don't want it to be too obvious.  The garbled nature means you can make out different words depending on what you're listening for.  That seems deliberate.

Especially considering we got "Save us" and "Serve us" from the one that's easier to understand. It's a matter of perspective and what you want to hear. That's definitely intentional.

Yeah, it reminded me of C'thun's whispers; I guess I should be surprised I did'nt  hear "Your heart will explode"

[EpyonX3]

Dwailing wrote...

Sovereign did it through a hologram.  Harbinger previously did it through a hologram.  They can probably translate it through those.  Also, as for the Rannoch Reaper, it wasn't about to try indoctrinating Shepard.  Harbinger was, in this case.  Think about it this way, if you want to say something intimidating, but don't want to reveal that you're about to INVADE SOMEONE'S MIND, but the devs WANT you to say SOMETHING that will lead to speculation , you're going to speak in something that COULD be words, but isn't OBVIOUS.

Whether the rannoch reaper was trying to indoctrinate or not, it spoke to Shepard face to face with no tool in between. Even though reapers speak their own language, we know they have vocals.

About Harbinger, he's pretty descriptive of his intentions in ME2. Why be cryptic in ME3 when he's finally face to face with Shepard? Where else in the game have we seen reapers behave this way?

[Arian Dynas]

Also, one OTHER piece of evidence.

The definition of the word "Catalyst" whom, by definition is NOT a Catalyst.

If the literal ending was the intention the whole time, they could have chosen reagent, component, any number of synonyms without the implication that they DIRECTLY defy (the Crucible changed me)

And for that matter, why call it the "Crucible" at all?