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Was the Ending a Hallucination? - Indoctrination Theory Mark II!


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#32501
MegumiAzusa

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HellishFiend wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I sent this as a reply to a PM, thought some of you might like to read it:


Reject is certainly an enigma for IT. I personally feel that it's presence among the endings doesnt detract from the core IT beliefs even one bit, but it is difficult to put a finger on what the outcome would be from it. Whatever it may be, I think it is safe to say that it is not as good an outcome as Destroy, because to quote Lieutenant Victus: "Victory, at any cost".

Choosing reject is rejecting victory over the Reapers on the grounds of not wanting to sacrifice his friends. If you've seen my Choose Wisely video, I highlight how sacrifice, and willingness to sacrifice, is a huge theme in the game. Reject is essentially choosing inaction over a costly victory, which would most likely lead to inevitable defeat.

I disagree with rejecting is rejecting victory. It is rejecting the premise the Catalyst offers, Shepard is still fighting, but in her own way like she did since Eden Prime. "I gonna end this war on my terms." It is actually worded pretty similar to when rejecting to save the collector base. "I gonna win this war without sacrificing the soul of our species"


Well, I didnt mean to imply that he was rejecting victory altogether, just that he was rejecting an available means to victory because it would require sacrificing some of his friends and technology. That's pretty different than sacrificing the soul of the species, dont you think? Especially when said friends have explicated that they are willing to sacrifice themselves for a good cause.

You are missing the point of "I'll die knowing that I did everything I could to stop you!". She doesn't reject because of the ones she likes, she rejects because it would again mean using methodes provided by the Reapers. Notice the "you". Choosing destroy is using a method provided by the Catalyst aka a Reaper or the Reaper in Chief. Like Reaper technology provided by saving the Collector Base corrupting the soul of the species the Reaper methods provided by the Catalyst is corrupting and therefor she rejects.


But he doesnt die knowing that he did everything he could to stop them... He had an option right in front of him and he didnt take it. At least, thats the way I see it. If we got the breath scene after the Reject ending I might agree with you, but the absence of it suggests to me that it is not an ideal outcome.

It also works the other way around: the absence of Shepard being killed suggests to me that it is an ideal outcome.

"He had an option right in front of him and he didnt take it." which would have required trusting the Reaper in Chief who isn't even bothered to order at least a cease fire until Shepard made a decision and without anything suggesting it is sincere.

#32502
cavs25

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Andromidius wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Dwailing wrote...


OK, when I listened again, it almost sounded like, "We don't have you," or, "We will have you."

I'm pretty sure that it's, "We don't have you."  It sounds a LOT like that to me.


Now i'm focusing, it sounds like "We Shall Have You."

/shudder

I feel dirty.


No-one else hear it?


I heard "we shall have you" as well. :blink:

#32503
Dwailing

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And it's funny, after he maybe says serve us (I'm just putting in the maybe so SOME people don't get upset.), you can AGAIN hear the chimes from the ending choice flashes. Even YOU, Epyon, can't deny that one.

#32504
Starbuck8

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Dwailing wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Fingertrip wrote...

I'm hearing "Serve us" clear as day. The "SE" and "SA" is pretty exceedingly different in how you convey it. 

More IT fuel. :kissing:


Bolded is exactly why some hear serve and some hear gibberish.


And you're so biased against IT that you refuse to even CONSIDER that he might be saying something!  OK, that was just me going for drama.  Honestly, I can kind of understand why you don't think he says something, but I really DO think that he's saying something.  Not just because I believe in IT, but because it honestly sounds like he's saying something.


Even if what he says completely backed up a literalist interpretation, I would want to know what he says, because he's clearly saying something!

#32505
EpyonX3

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Dwailing wrote...

And you're so biased against IT that you refuse to even CONSIDER that he might be saying something!  OK, that was just me going for drama.  Honestly, I can kind of understand why you don't think he says something, but I really DO think that he's saying something.  Not just because I believe in IT, but because it honestly sounds like he's saying something.


I'm just saying that people will hear what they want to hear from that based on what they want to prove. If it is something it's not clear and is useless because of it. I went as far as to extract the file and put it on youtube. I don't hear anything outside of reaper talk, which we've heard before.

#32506
Xavendithas

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EpyonX3 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Sovereign did it through a hologram.  Harbinger previously did it through a hologram.  They can probably translate it through those.  Also, as for the Rannoch Reaper, it wasn't about to try indoctrinating Shepard.  Harbinger was, in this case.  Think about it this way, if you want to say something intimidating, but don't want to reveal that you're about to INVADE SOMEONE'S MIND, but the devs WANT you to say SOMETHING that will lead to speculation ;), you're going to speak in something that COULD be words, but isn't OBVIOUS.


Whether the rannoch reaper was trying to indoctrinate or not, it spoke to Shepard face to face with no tool in between. Even though reapers speak their own language, we know they have vocals.

About Harbinger, he's pretty descriptive of his intentions in ME2. Why be cryptic in ME3 when he's finally face to face with Shepard? Where else in the game have we seen reapers behave this way?


It's pure speculation whether or not Shepard heard the Rannoch destroyer out loud, or in his/her head. Through the entire conversation those shockwaves are present which seem to represent ultrasonic/infrasonic sound, and Tali just walks up and says "I can't believe we destroyed a reaper" without any reference to the conversation Shepard was just having with the destroyer.

Modifié par Xavendithas, 28 juin 2012 - 03:14 .


#32507
HellishFiend

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

It also works the other way around: the absence of Shepard being killed suggests to me that it is an ideal outcome.

"He had an option right in front of him and he didnt take it." which would have required trusting the Reaper in Chief who isn't even bothered to order at least a cease fire until Shepard made a decision and without anything suggesting it is sincere.


I just have a hard time believing that an option that not only doesnt show the "Shepalive" breath scene but also wasnt included on release is actually yielding the best result for the indoc attempt. I'm not saying I feel the result from Reject would be among the worst possible outcomes, but I dont see it being as good as picking Destroy over Control/Synth when all 3 are available. 

#32508
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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The biggest point to me for months was that Crucible = test, a trial.

Catalyst is a friggin liar too.

Refusing to take their test, is a show that this cycle is not good enough to actually break the cycle.

All of the husk horror shows and big blasty robots and everything is psychological intimidation, regardless of the species they are invading.

They seek an answer just as you, as Shepard might. In Destroy, you reject an answer and substitute it with your own. In Control, you believe you can take their current answer and improve on it. In Synthesis, you move along with them into a newly provided answer.
All three require using Reaper technology and assistance. All three require Shepard falling, in some form, into indoctrination (EVEN IF not outright indoctrination as we have it in Mass Effect).

AKA Bioware really really really wants Shepard to side with Catalyst in some form, even if in Destroy, he retains his humanity and resistance. Reject ending is an ending where you don't even take the test, and as such, the Reapers stop holding back the roflstomp over everything. I'm even almost convinced that they would have done it anyway, if it wasn't for their/Harbinger's interest in Shepard and how this cycle could have even provided the amount of resistance it has.

To sum it up... I think we're still in a reaper experiment. Even if the ending sequence isn't a dream, there are two other possibilities:

1)It's partial indoctrination, and what Shepard/we are seeing, is not exactly what is actually happening. Shepard will never, and may be immune to indoctrination outright, but that doesn't mean he can't be affected by it.

2)It is ALL happening, all of it. No tricks, and even the 3 devices to choose from are real. It's all part of the design. You're not even in any strong form of indoctrination. HOWEVER, after all of the mental stress throughout the game, and now exposure to TIM's Reaper tech (which might explain his placement in that part of the Citadel... wink wink), you're at least mentally weak enough for the Reapers to 'present their case' to you without utter and total rejection (aka Refusal ending). THEY WANT YOU. Above all else, the story has shown that the Reapers want something from Shepard and/or his body, but likely not just his body.

#32509
EpyonX3

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Dwailing wrote...

And it's funny, after he maybe says serve us (I'm just putting in the maybe so SOME people don't get upset.), you can AGAIN hear the chimes from the ending choice flashes. Even YOU, Epyon, can't deny that one.


I hear the high pitched sound. I don't hear the similarities. Maybe if I played them side by side but at the moment no.

So now sounds that aid the scene are considered evidence for IT?

#32510
MegumiAzusa

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DrTsoni wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

I sent this as a reply to a PM, thought some of you might like to read it:


Reject is certainly an enigma for IT. I personally feel that it's presence among the endings doesnt detract from the core IT beliefs even one bit, but it is difficult to put a finger on what the outcome would be from it. Whatever it may be, I think it is safe to say that it is not as good an outcome as Destroy, because to quote Lieutenant Victus: "Victory, at any cost".

Choosing reject is rejecting victory over the Reapers on the grounds of not wanting to sacrifice his friends. If you've seen my Choose Wisely video, I highlight how sacrifice, and willingness to sacrifice, is a huge theme in the game. Reject is essentially choosing inaction over a costly victory, which would most likely lead to inevitable defeat.

I disagree with rejecting is rejecting victory. It is rejecting the premise the Catalyst offers, Shepard is still fighting, but in her own way like she did since Eden Prime. "I gonna end this war on my terms." It is actually worded pretty similar to when rejecting to save the collector base. "I gonna win this war without sacrificing the soul of our species"


Well, I didnt mean to imply that he was rejecting victory altogether, just that he was rejecting an available means to victory because it would require sacrificing some of his friends and technology. That's pretty different than sacrificing the soul of the species, dont you think? Especially when said friends have explicated that they are willing to sacrifice themselves for a good cause.

You are missing the point of "I'll die knowing that I did everything I could to stop you!". She doesn't reject because of the ones she likes, she rejects because it would again mean using methodes provided by the Reapers. Notice the "you". Choosing destroy is using a method provided by the Catalyst aka a Reaper or the Reaper in Chief. Like Reaper technology provided by saving the Collector Base corrupting the soul of the species the Reaper methods provided by the Catalyst is corrupting and therefor she rejects.

I agree regardless, but you're saying it's like the way civilization advances how the Reapers wanted, this is the same sort of thing? Like what Legion said in ME2, they would have come to the same conclusion as what the Reapers offered them but they wanted to do it themselves. In this case, we're going to destroy them, but not by the means they offer us?

Yes, also there is the factor that the Reapers can just lie. We know the Reapers also destroy the synthetics after using them, so why should that be much different?

#32511
Auralius Carolus

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Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, one OTHER piece of evidence.

The definition of the word "Catalyst" whom, by definition is NOT a Catalyst.

If the literal ending was the intention the whole time, they could have chosen reagent, component, any number of synonyms without the implication that they DIRECTLY defy (the Crucible changed me)

And for that matter, why call it the "Crucible" at all?


Catalyst: A mechanism to create a reaction between two or more substances- it was to be the Catalyst that brought peace between Organic and Synthetic per its own account.

Crucible: An event that requires a titanic undertaking, often over an extended period of time- the Crucible was created, improved and then hidden away over the course of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years, by many peoples and against all odds.

#32512
Cecilia L

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SwobyJ wrote...
(...)
THEY WANT YOU. Above all else, the story has shown that the Reapers want something from Shepard and/or his body, but likely not just his body.


Are you suggesting that they want Shep to join them as a new colleague like with Control?

#32513
EpyonX3

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Xavendithas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Sovereign did it through a hologram.  Harbinger previously did it through a hologram.  They can probably translate it through those.  Also, as for the Rannoch Reaper, it wasn't about to try indoctrinating Shepard.  Harbinger was, in this case.  Think about it this way, if you want to say something intimidating, but don't want to reveal that you're about to INVADE SOMEONE'S MIND, but the devs WANT you to say SOMETHING that will lead to speculation ;), you're going to speak in something that COULD be words, but isn't OBVIOUS.


Whether the rannoch reaper was trying to indoctrinate or not, it spoke to Shepard face to face with no tool in between. Even though reapers speak their own language, we know they have vocals.

About Harbinger, he's pretty descriptive of his intentions in ME2. Why be cryptic in ME3 when he's finally face to face with Shepard? Where else in the game have we seen reapers behave this way?


It's pure speculation whether or not Shepard heard the Rannoch destroyer out loud, or in his/her head. Through the entire conversation those shockwaves are present which seem to represent ultrasonic/infrasonic sound, and Tali just walks up and says "I can't believe we destroyed a reaper" without any reference to the conversation Shepard was just having with the destroyer.


If it was in Shepard's head, then there would be no echo's from the cliffs. It would sound like Harbinger in ME2. I honestly, think that the waves are actually camera bugs. I always thought they were since my first playthrough. Infrasonic waves of that magnitude would have done serious damage to Shepard and crew.

As for Tali, I have no explanation for why she didn't chime in. Maybe she didn't care, she's on her home planet and a reaper is dead. But if it was in Shepard's head, why did Tali wait so long to say what she said. She walked up to Shepard and could have heard him talking to himself. Why not comment on that?

#32514
Guest_SwobyJ_*

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I think its a real possibility that Shepard can feel the effects of indoctrination without being subdued to it.

And this is why Reapers want him.

#32515
MegumiAzusa

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EpyonX3 wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Sovereign did it through a hologram.  Harbinger previously did it through a hologram.  They can probably translate it through those.  Also, as for the Rannoch Reaper, it wasn't about to try indoctrinating Shepard.  Harbinger was, in this case.  Think about it this way, if you want to say something intimidating, but don't want to reveal that you're about to INVADE SOMEONE'S MIND, but the devs WANT you to say SOMETHING that will lead to speculation ;), you're going to speak in something that COULD be words, but isn't OBVIOUS.


Whether the rannoch reaper was trying to indoctrinate or not, it spoke to Shepard face to face with no tool in between. Even though reapers speak their own language, we know they have vocals.

About Harbinger, he's pretty descriptive of his intentions in ME2. Why be cryptic in ME3 when he's finally face to face with Shepard? Where else in the game have we seen reapers behave this way?


It's pure speculation whether or not Shepard heard the Rannoch destroyer out loud, or in his/her head. Through the entire conversation those shockwaves are present which seem to represent ultrasonic/infrasonic sound, and Tali just walks up and says "I can't believe we destroyed a reaper" without any reference to the conversation Shepard was just having with the destroyer.


If it was in Shepard's head, then there would be no echo's from the cliffs. It would sound like Harbinger in ME2. I honestly, think that the waves are actually camera bugs. I always thought they were since my first playthrough. Infrasonic waves of that magnitude would have done serious damage to Shepard and crew.

As for Tali, I have no explanation for why she didn't chime in. Maybe she didn't care, she's on her home planet and a reaper is dead. But if it was in Shepard's head, why did Tali wait so long to say what she said. She walked up to Shepard and could have heard him talking to himself. Why not comment on that?

No the camera shake is on purpose. It's also present in the "So be it" line of the Catalyst.

#32516
HellishFiend

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EpyonX3 wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Sovereign did it through a hologram.  Harbinger previously did it through a hologram.  They can probably translate it through those.  Also, as for the Rannoch Reaper, it wasn't about to try indoctrinating Shepard.  Harbinger was, in this case.  Think about it this way, if you want to say something intimidating, but don't want to reveal that you're about to INVADE SOMEONE'S MIND, but the devs WANT you to say SOMETHING that will lead to speculation ;), you're going to speak in something that COULD be words, but isn't OBVIOUS.


Whether the rannoch reaper was trying to indoctrinate or not, it spoke to Shepard face to face with no tool in between. Even though reapers speak their own language, we know they have vocals.

About Harbinger, he's pretty descriptive of his intentions in ME2. Why be cryptic in ME3 when he's finally face to face with Shepard? Where else in the game have we seen reapers behave this way?


It's pure speculation whether or not Shepard heard the Rannoch destroyer out loud, or in his/her head. Through the entire conversation those shockwaves are present which seem to represent ultrasonic/infrasonic sound, and Tali just walks up and says "I can't believe we destroyed a reaper" without any reference to the conversation Shepard was just having with the destroyer.


If it was in Shepard's head, then there would be no echo's from the cliffs. It would sound like Harbinger in ME2. I honestly, think that the waves are actually camera bugs. I always thought they were since my first playthrough. Infrasonic waves of that magnitude would have done serious damage to Shepard and crew.

As for Tali, I have no explanation for why she didn't chime in. Maybe she didn't care, she's on her home planet and a reaper is dead. But if it was in Shepard's head, why did Tali wait so long to say what she said. She walked up to Shepard and could have heard him talking to himself. Why not comment on that?


As far as I know, Infrasonic waves are not visible regardless of frequency/amplitude. It's a different kind of pressure that causes visible shockwaves. Sound pressure tends to accompany visible shockwaves, but the sound itself is a byproduct rather than the cause. 

#32517
Auralius Carolus

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*looks back over the EC*

Well, they still haven't changed the location of initial Crucible beam on the Galaxy map: that isn't Earth; Earth's not in the outer rim...

#32518
Xavendithas

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EpyonX3 wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Sovereign did it through a hologram.  Harbinger previously did it through a hologram.  They can probably translate it through those.  Also, as for the Rannoch Reaper, it wasn't about to try indoctrinating Shepard.  Harbinger was, in this case.  Think about it this way, if you want to say something intimidating, but don't want to reveal that you're about to INVADE SOMEONE'S MIND, but the devs WANT you to say SOMETHING that will lead to speculation ;), you're going to speak in something that COULD be words, but isn't OBVIOUS.


Whether the rannoch reaper was trying to indoctrinate or not, it spoke to Shepard face to face with no tool in between. Even though reapers speak their own language, we know they have vocals.

About Harbinger, he's pretty descriptive of his intentions in ME2. Why be cryptic in ME3 when he's finally face to face with Shepard? Where else in the game have we seen reapers behave this way?


It's pure speculation whether or not Shepard heard the Rannoch destroyer out loud, or in his/her head. Through the entire conversation those shockwaves are present which seem to represent ultrasonic/infrasonic sound, and Tali just walks up and says "I can't believe we destroyed a reaper" without any reference to the conversation Shepard was just having with the destroyer.


If it was in Shepard's head, then there would be no echo's from the cliffs. It would sound like Harbinger in ME2. I honestly, think that the waves are actually camera bugs. I always thought they were since my first playthrough. Infrasonic waves of that magnitude would have done serious damage to Shepard and crew.

As for Tali, I have no explanation for why she didn't chime in. Maybe she didn't care, she's on her home planet and a reaper is dead. But if it was in Shepard's head, why did Tali wait so long to say what she said. She walked up to Shepard and could have heard him talking to himself. Why not comment on that?


If you interpret it as the destroyer speaking in Shepards mind, it's not much of a stretch to consider that Shepards responses were all in his own mind. To Tali it may have looked like he was just standing there staring at it.

I'm not trying to be difficult, and I hope it's not coming across that way. It's just that this can be interpreted in a couple of different ways. imo :)

#32519
Starbuck8

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Auralius Carolus wrote...

*looks back over the EC*

Well, they still haven't changed the location of initial Crucible beam on the Galaxy map: that isn't Earth; Earth's not in the outer rim...


Yep. I was really expecting to see them change that, after they fixed so many other holes. But no. Too much work/time?

#32520
EpyonX3

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MegumiAzusa wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Sovereign did it through a hologram.  Harbinger previously did it through a hologram.  They can probably translate it through those.  Also, as for the Rannoch Reaper, it wasn't about to try indoctrinating Shepard.  Harbinger was, in this case.  Think about it this way, if you want to say something intimidating, but don't want to reveal that you're about to INVADE SOMEONE'S MIND, but the devs WANT you to say SOMETHING that will lead to speculation ;), you're going to speak in something that COULD be words, but isn't OBVIOUS.


Whether the rannoch reaper was trying to indoctrinate or not, it spoke to Shepard face to face with no tool in between. Even though reapers speak their own language, we know they have vocals.

About Harbinger, he's pretty descriptive of his intentions in ME2. Why be cryptic in ME3 when he's finally face to face with Shepard? Where else in the game have we seen reapers behave this way?


It's pure speculation whether or not Shepard heard the Rannoch destroyer out loud, or in his/her head. Through the entire conversation those shockwaves are present which seem to represent ultrasonic/infrasonic sound, and Tali just walks up and says "I can't believe we destroyed a reaper" without any reference to the conversation Shepard was just having with the destroyer.


If it was in Shepard's head, then there would be no echo's from the cliffs. It would sound like Harbinger in ME2. I honestly, think that the waves are actually camera bugs. I always thought they were since my first playthrough. Infrasonic waves of that magnitude would have done serious damage to Shepard and crew.

As for Tali, I have no explanation for why she didn't chime in. Maybe she didn't care, she's on her home planet and a reaper is dead. But if it was in Shepard's head, why did Tali wait so long to say what she said. She walked up to Shepard and could have heard him talking to himself. Why not comment on that?

No the camera shake is on purpose. It's also present in the "So be it" line of the Catalyst.


Not the same thing. The so be it is a small rumble you barely notice. You even hear the rumble itself. The rannoch reaper camera didn't shake, it was almost like it was zooming in and out struggling to fit the right angle between certain contraints.

#32521
EpyonX3

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Xavendithas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

Sovereign did it through a hologram.  Harbinger previously did it through a hologram.  They can probably translate it through those.  Also, as for the Rannoch Reaper, it wasn't about to try indoctrinating Shepard.  Harbinger was, in this case.  Think about it this way, if you want to say something intimidating, but don't want to reveal that you're about to INVADE SOMEONE'S MIND, but the devs WANT you to say SOMETHING that will lead to speculation ;), you're going to speak in something that COULD be words, but isn't OBVIOUS.


Whether the rannoch reaper was trying to indoctrinate or not, it spoke to Shepard face to face with no tool in between. Even though reapers speak their own language, we know they have vocals.

About Harbinger, he's pretty descriptive of his intentions in ME2. Why be cryptic in ME3 when he's finally face to face with Shepard? Where else in the game have we seen reapers behave this way?


It's pure speculation whether or not Shepard heard the Rannoch destroyer out loud, or in his/her head. Through the entire conversation those shockwaves are present which seem to represent ultrasonic/infrasonic sound, and Tali just walks up and says "I can't believe we destroyed a reaper" without any reference to the conversation Shepard was just having with the destroyer.


If it was in Shepard's head, then there would be no echo's from the cliffs. It would sound like Harbinger in ME2. I honestly, think that the waves are actually camera bugs. I always thought they were since my first playthrough. Infrasonic waves of that magnitude would have done serious damage to Shepard and crew.

As for Tali, I have no explanation for why she didn't chime in. Maybe she didn't care, she's on her home planet and a reaper is dead. But if it was in Shepard's head, why did Tali wait so long to say what she said. She walked up to Shepard and could have heard him talking to himself. Why not comment on that?


If you interpret it as the destroyer speaking in Shepards mind, it's not much of a stretch to consider that Shepards responses were all in his own mind. To Tali it may have looked like he was just standing there staring at it.

I'm not trying to be difficult, and I hope it's not coming across that way. It's just that this can be interpreted in a couple of different ways. imo :)


Not at all. My response to that is then how did Tali know when Shepard's mind conversation was over if he wasn't speaking?

He didn't approach her.

#32522
Arian Dynas

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Auralius Carolus wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

Also, one OTHER piece of evidence.

The definition of the word "Catalyst" whom, by definition is NOT a Catalyst.

If the literal ending was the intention the whole time, they could have chosen reagent, component, any number of synonyms without the implication that they DIRECTLY defy (the Crucible changed me)

And for that matter, why call it the "Crucible" at all?


Catalyst: A mechanism to create a reaction between two or more substances WITHOUT BEING CONSUMED OR CHANGED BY THE REACTION- it was to be the Catalyst that brought peace between Organic and Synthetic per its own account.

Crucible: An event that requires a titanic undertaking, often over an extended period of time- the Crucible was created, improved and then hidden away over the course of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of years, by many peoples and against all odds.


"The Crucible changed me."

Where did you get THAT definition of Crucible? I have never heard that definition applied to the word.

#32523
infinite_regress

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Xavendithas wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Xavendithas wrote...

It's pure speculation whether or not Shepard heard the Rannoch destroyer out loud, or in his/her head. Through the entire conversation those shockwaves are present which seem to represent ultrasonic/infrasonic sound, and Tali just walks up and says "I can't believe we destroyed a reaper" without any reference to the conversation Shepard was just having with the destroyer.


If it was in Shepard's head, then there would be no echo's from the cliffs. It would sound like Harbinger in ME2. I honestly, think that the waves are actually camera bugs. I always thought they were since my first playthrough. Infrasonic waves of that magnitude would have done serious damage to Shepard and crew.

As for Tali, I have no explanation for why she didn't chime in. Maybe she didn't care, she's on her home planet and a reaper is dead. But if it was in Shepard's head, why did Tali wait so long to say what she said. She walked up to Shepard and could have heard him talking to himself. Why not comment on that?


If you interpret it as the destroyer speaking in Shepards mind, it's not much of a stretch to consider that Shepards responses were all in his own mind. To Tali it may have looked like he was just standing there staring at it.

I'm not trying to be difficult, and I hope it's not coming across that way. It's just that this can be interpreted in a couple of different ways. imo :)



But it doesn't seem like it was in his head (though that would be cool) if you have the datapad app installed. I posted this earlier on in the thread, but there was a message from Garrus right after that said: "Glad you were the one to talk to the Reaper. I wouldn've just shot it some more for spite".

Modifié par infinite_regress, 28 juin 2012 - 03:30 .


#32524
Arian Dynas

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Also, a observation from Nezrathul;

On a more amusing note... low ems "reject" ending is hilarious. The only option is to destroy the Reapers or don't use the Crucible. The Catalyst prefers Shepard to destroy them and gets angry, if he let's him continue the cycle. To add to the hilarity, bring Liara along so she dies when running towards the beam, yet her gift says the Crucible did not work. How did she add this information post mortem?



#32525
HellishFiend

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EpyonX3 wrote...

Not the same thing. The so be it is a small rumble you barely notice. You even hear the rumble itself. The rannoch reaper camera didn't shake, it was almost like it was zooming in and out struggling to fit the right angle between certain contraints.


You're welcome to think that the camera movement with the Rannoch Reaper is unintentional if you like, but I dont see why you're so dismissive of the possibility that its intentional. It's not like it directly supports IT, it's just an indication that having a conversation with a Reaper in that kind of proximity is most likely not healthy for Shepard's mind.