55528 réponses à ce sujet

[paxxton]

TSA_383 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...


What you guys think?

The best ending.

Could Destroy be a trap?

LOL. You essentially decide to make more people suffer even more horrors of war. I only can hope IT is true but in this case also Destroy has to be good because Reject wasn't in the original ending. Unless the original ending wasn't about IT and the EC introduced Reject to accomodate for IT.

Modifié par paxxton, 28 juin 2012 - 02:39 .

[the_last_krogan]

im still holding on to hope hoping that the last single player dlc bioware will release for mass effect 3 will start with the breathing shepard seen at the end of the destroy ending awakening and emerging from the ruins of an indoctrination facility lol hope aint much but its free lmao ...

[FFZero]

Dwailing wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...


What you guys think?

The best ending.

Could Destroy be a trap?

I was starting to wonder that myself, actually.

How exactly could it be a trap?

You choose control or synthesis and you become indoctrinated, you choose destroy and what? The reapers fry your brain or something?

[paxxton]

Silhouett3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

Embrace Perfection. We are Harbinger of your Ascendance. Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater. The pinnacle of evolution. We are the end of everything.

It's not the same. Harvesting organics liquifies them. Destroys them. In Synthesis it's more of symbiosis/mutual enhancement than subordination.

Harvesting doesn't destroy, what it destroys is the form. Not the main organic material, the DNA. Remember Mordin when he is talking about humans :

"..Ignore superficial appearance. Down to genetic code."

Processing and "saving" genetic material is what Reapers call Ascendance. Synthesis is not any different as it is all about a processed DNA. According to Reapers saving life is not about saving the "form" of organics but the material of organics. Organics are not aware of their material. Your mind is not aware of the cells in your body ( Legion's loyalty mission). We petty organics can only comprehend the form. Life is more than that. Supposedly Reapers can comprehend both. Therefore every Reaper you meet start and end the conversation with the "You don't understand me, you are a fool" line. Now how does EDI describe synthesis in the end?

The Catalyst thought it was the only way to prevent the war. In Synthesis, the form is preserved as well. It's completely different than Ascension.

DNA doesn't  store experience and memories. Those are stored in the form which is preserved in Synthesis.

No one would reject Synthesis if they saw what it gives them, how it changes lives for the better.

Modifié par paxxton, 28 juin 2012 - 02:56 .

[MegumiAzusa]

paxxton wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

Embrace Perfection. We are Harbinger of your Ascendance. Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater. The pinnacle of evolution. We are the end of everything.

It's not the same. Harvesting organics liquifies them. Destroys them. In Synthesis it's more of symbiosis/mutual enhancement than subordination.

Harvesting doesn't destroy, what it destroys is the form. Not the main organic material, the DNA. Remember Mordin when he is talking about humans :

"..Ignore superficial appearance. Down to genetic code."

Processing and "saving" genetic material is what Reapers call Ascendance. Synthesis is not any different as it is all about a processed DNA. According to Reapers saving life is not about saving the "form" of organics but the material of organics. Organics are not aware of their material. Your mind is not aware of the cells in your body ( Legion's loyalty mission). We petty organics can only comprehend the form. Life is more than that. Supposedly Reapers can comprehend both. Therefore every Reaper you meet start and end the conversation with the "You don't understand me, you are a fool" line. Now how does EDI describe synthesis in the end?

The Catalyst thought it was the only way to prevent the war. In Synthesis, the form is preserved as well. It's completely different than Ascension.

DNA doesn't  store experience and memories.

Uhm some basic stuff can and is being stored in DNA.

[paxxton]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Uhm some basic stuff can and is being stored in DNA.

But not thoughts. I heard that if you exercise, it changes your DNA.

Modifié par paxxton, 28 juin 2012 - 02:55 .

[EpyonX3]

paxxton wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

Embrace Perfection. We are Harbinger of your Ascendance. Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater. The pinnacle of evolution. We are the end of everything.

It's not the same. Harvesting organics liquifies them. Destroys them. In Synthesis it's more of symbiosis/mutual enhancement than subordination.

Harvesting doesn't destroy, what it destroys is the form. Not the main organic material, the DNA. Remember Mordin when he is talking about humans :

"..Ignore superficial appearance. Down to genetic code."

Processing and "saving" genetic material is what Reapers call Ascendance. Synthesis is not any different as it is all about a processed DNA. According to Reapers saving life is not about saving the "form" of organics but the material of organics. Organics are not aware of their material. Your mind is not aware of the cells in your body ( Legion's loyalty mission). We petty organics can only comprehend the form. Life is more than that. Supposedly Reapers can comprehend both. Therefore every Reaper you meet start and end the conversation with the "You don't understand me, you are a fool" line. Now how does EDI describe synthesis in the end?

The Catalyst thought it was the only way to prevent the war. In Synthesis, the form is preserved as well. It's completely different than Ascension.

DNA doesn't  store experience and memories. those are stored in the form which is preserved in Synthesis.

no one would reject Synthesis if they saw what it gives them, how it changes lives for the better.

Desmond Miles disagrees

[Dwailing]

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

Embrace Perfection. We are Harbinger of your Ascendance. Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater. The pinnacle of evolution. We are the end of everything.

It's not the same. Harvesting organics liquifies them. Destroys them. In Synthesis it's more of symbiosis/mutual enhancement than subordination.

Harvesting doesn't destroy, what it destroys is the form. Not the main organic material, the DNA. Remember Mordin when he is talking about humans :

"..Ignore superficial appearance. Down to genetic code."

Processing and "saving" genetic material is what Reapers call Ascendance. Synthesis is not any different as it is all about a processed DNA. According to Reapers saving life is not about saving the "form" of organics but the material of organics. Organics are not aware of their material. Your mind is not aware of the cells in your body ( Legion's loyalty mission). We petty organics can only comprehend the form. Life is more than that. Supposedly Reapers can comprehend both. Therefore every Reaper you meet start and end the conversation with the "You don't understand me, you are a fool" line. Now how does EDI describe synthesis in the end?

The Catalyst thought it was the only way to prevent the war. In Synthesis, the form is preserved as well. It's completely different than Ascension.

DNA doesn't  store experience and memories. those are stored in the form which is preserved in Synthesis.

no one would reject Synthesis if they saw what it gives them, how it changes lives for the better.

Desmond Miles disagrees

Exactly what I thought!  Internet high five!

[EpyonX3]

DLC still has Anderson's family dialog at the end before he dies.

[Lokanaiya]

I'm inclined to agree that Refusal could be the best in terms of IT. In Destroy you're still partly going along with Starbinger's plan, even if it's the one he doesn't want you to do, you're still trusting him when explains what each of the options are, you're still accepting one of his solutions, and you never dispute the whole "created will always destroy the creators" notion. In Refusal, on the other hand, you're rejecting the notion that you'll have to compromise with the Reapers at all. Didn't Dream Anderson say "there's always another way" just a few minutes before this? You're still going by that notion, even if it is a little bull-headed of you. But being bull-headed and the refusal to compromise might be what's required to defeat the Reapers.

For those who say Shepard is opting out and giving up, listen to what s/he says. What s/he's doing is remaining true to the theme of free will and doing the impossible... Even if it's stupid as hell.

Plus, it's the only one where s/he gives an epic Shepard-speech. How can that be bad?

[Dwailing]

Lokanaiya wrote...

I'm inclined to agree that Refusal could be the best in terms of IT. In Destroy you're still partly going along with Starbinger's plan, even if it's the one he doesn't want you to do, you're still trusting him when explains what each of the options are, you're still accepting one of his solutions, and you never dispute the whole "created will always destroy the creators" notion. In Refusal, on the other hand, you're rejecting the notion that you'll have to compromise with the Reapers at all. Didn't Dream Anderson say "there's always another way" just a few minutes before this? You're still going by that notion, even if it is a little bull-headed of you. But being bull-headed and the refusal to compromise might be what's required to defeat the Reapers.

For those who say Shepard is opting out and giving up, listen to what s/he says. What s/he's doing is remaining true to the theme of free will and doing the impossible... Even if it's stupid as hell.

Plus, it's the only one where s/he gives an epic Shepard-speech. How can that be bad?

Epic Shepard speeches ALWAYS lead to victory.  Charm and Intimidate options have showed that to be true. 

[Dwailing]

paxxton wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Uhm some basic stuff can and is being stored in DNA.

But not thoughts. I heard that if you exercise, it changes your DNA.

Uh, exercise doesn't change your DNA. 

[dreamgazer]

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Uhm some basic stuff can and is being stored in DNA.

But not thoughts. I heard that if you exercise, it changes your DNA.

Uh, exercise doesn't change your DNA. 

Using the biopsied samples, researchers compared the activity in a series of muscle-related genes before and after exercise. More genes were turned on in the cells taken after the exercise and the participants’ DNA showed less methylation, a molecular process in which chemicals called methyl groups settle on the DNA and limit the cell’s ability to access, or switch on, certain genes. By controlling how much methylation goes on in certain cells at specific times, the body regulates which genes in the DNA are activated — that’s what differentiates the development of an an eye cell, for example, from that of a liver cell.

http://healthland.ti...hange-your-dna/ 

[Silent Rogue]

Does the refusal ending trigger the 'Shepard breathes' scene?

[EpyonX3]

Dwailing wrote...

Lokanaiya wrote...

I'm inclined to agree that Refusal could be the best in terms of IT. In Destroy you're still partly going along with Starbinger's plan, even if it's the one he doesn't want you to do, you're still trusting him when explains what each of the options are, you're still accepting one of his solutions, and you never dispute the whole "created will always destroy the creators" notion. In Refusal, on the other hand, you're rejecting the notion that you'll have to compromise with the Reapers at all. Didn't Dream Anderson say "there's always another way" just a few minutes before this? You're still going by that notion, even if it is a little bull-headed of you. But being bull-headed and the refusal to compromise might be what's required to defeat the Reapers.

For those who say Shepard is opting out and giving up, listen to what s/he says. What s/he's doing is remaining true to the theme of free will and doing the impossible... Even if it's stupid as hell.

Plus, it's the only one where s/he gives an epic Shepard-speech. How can that be bad?

Epic Shepard speeches ALWAYS lead to victory.  Charm and Intimidate options have showed that to be true. 

In the case with reject, his words are as empty as his future.

[EpyonX3]

Silent Rogue wrote...

Does the refusal ending trigger the 'Shepard breathes' scene?

No. It triggers a "we lost" scene and Liara's message is found by the next cycle.

Modifié par EpyonX3, 28 juin 2012 - 03:10 .

[MaximizedAction]

paxxton wrote...

TSA_383 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...


What you guys think?

The best ending.

Could Destroy be a trap?

LOL. You essentially decide to make more people suffer even more horrors of war. I only can hope IT is true but in this case also Destroy has to be good because Reject wasn't in the original ending. Unless the original ending wasn't about IT and the EC introduced Reject to accomodate for IT.

From the shortness of the epilogue, SO BE IT seems like an easter egg ending. But the implications of what the outcome is depicted to be....are interesting (besides Shepard again looking at the camera at the end of her speech):

Let's assume you decide not to trust the Catalyst (trusting him makes this ending trivial). Then, IMO, this ending offers the least stretch to believe that the ending is fake. The reason is:
the whole game long you fight against the Reapers but with the absolute goal of building the Crucible. The Catalyst even emphasizes, that we put all our resources into building it, thus being too weak for conventional victory (also what we are told from the start, even before we started building it). But since we don't trust him in this example, he could be lying about the impossibility of conventional victory.
Shepard's resolve seems very strong in this ending. She chooses free will. The ending however implies indirectly, that free will is futile. Which is outrageous for an artist to imply, hence that can't be really Bioware's idea of the ending for the war.
No matter how science-fiction-y, it has to stay within the bounds of human morality rules.

Hence, it comes down to:
if you trust the Catalyst, this is the ending; if you don't trust him, then there's something up. And this time, it's easier to spot. Or, that's my opinion.

EDIT: Or, as some posted above, Epic Shepard speach has bad outcome. Fits within the Reaper's logic, which also manifests in Renegade=blue/Paragon=red.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 28 juin 2012 - 03:11 .

[EpyonX3]

Dwailing wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

Embrace Perfection. We are Harbinger of your Ascendance. Your species has the attention of those infinitely your greater. The pinnacle of evolution. We are the end of everything.

It's not the same. Harvesting organics liquifies them. Destroys them. In Synthesis it's more of symbiosis/mutual enhancement than subordination.

Harvesting doesn't destroy, what it destroys is the form. Not the main organic material, the DNA. Remember Mordin when he is talking about humans :

"..Ignore superficial appearance. Down to genetic code."

Processing and "saving" genetic material is what Reapers call Ascendance. Synthesis is not any different as it is all about a processed DNA. According to Reapers saving life is not about saving the "form" of organics but the material of organics. Organics are not aware of their material. Your mind is not aware of the cells in your body ( Legion's loyalty mission). We petty organics can only comprehend the form. Life is more than that. Supposedly Reapers can comprehend both. Therefore every Reaper you meet start and end the conversation with the "You don't understand me, you are a fool" line. Now how does EDI describe synthesis in the end?

The Catalyst thought it was the only way to prevent the war. In Synthesis, the form is preserved as well. It's completely different than Ascension.

DNA doesn't  store experience and memories. those are stored in the form which is preserved in Synthesis.

no one would reject Synthesis if they saw what it gives them, how it changes lives for the better.

Desmond Miles disagrees

Exactly what I thought!  Internet high five!

http://www.ihighfive.com/

[dreamgazer]

Sareth Cousland wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Dwailing wrote...

paxxton wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

Uhm some basic stuff can and is being stored in DNA.

But not thoughts. I heard that if you exercise, it changes your DNA.

Uh, exercise doesn't change your DNA. 

Using the biopsied samples, researchers compared the activity in a series of muscle-related genes before and after exercise. More genes were turned on in the cells taken after the exercise and the participants’ DNA showed less methylation, a molecular process in which chemicals called methyl groups settle on the DNA and limit the cell’s ability to access, or switch on, certain genes. By controlling how much methylation goes on in certain cells at specific times, the body regulates which genes in the DNA are activated — that’s what differentiates the development of an an eye cell, for example, from that of a liver cell.

http://healthland.ti...hange-your-dna/ 

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Epigenetics

While true---"both of which serve to regulate gene expression without altering the underlying DNA sequence"---it still suggests a shift, in one form or another, that occurs as a result of concentrated physical activity.

[Silhouett3]

paxxton wrote...

The Catalyst thought it was the only way to prevent the war. In Synthesis, the form is preserved as well. It's completely different than Ascension.
DNA doesn't  store experience and memories. those are stored in the form which is preserved in Synthesis.
no one would reject Synthesis if they saw what it gives them, how it changes lives for the better.

The form isn't the reason the main conflict emerges. The main conflict has Lovecraftian tones for a reason:
"There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own, you cannot even imagine it " Organics can never achieve transcendence in understanding the greater scheme of things and therefore attain a meaningful existance. They are dust struggling against cosmic winds. That's why processing organic DNA into a new one is called Ascension.

Reapers are nations. A nation consists from a shared memory, shared ways of thinking and a shared history. I don't really know much about that DNA thing but it sounds plausible considering Reapers can also just warp minds:whistle:

[Andromidius]

Silent Rogue wrote...

Does the refusal ending trigger the 'Shepard breathes' scene?

No.  Because if they did, it would outright confirm IT, and Bioware didn't want that.

The breath scene, weirdly, is what's causing me the most trouble right now.  It feels somehow out of place now with the 4th ending.

Also the fact Starbinger is fine with you destroying them all, but disagreeing with him pisses him off.  Very suspitious.  Implies it WANTS you to pick Destroy too, only not as much as Control, and not as much again for Synthesis.

Its juat plain baffling from both a literal and IT standpoint.

[Silent Rogue]

EpyonX3 wrote...

Silent Rogue wrote...

Does the refusal ending trigger the 'Shepard breathes' scene?

No. It triggers a "we lost" scene and Liara's message is found by the next cycle.

Then how can IT still be possible? I understand the concept behind breaking free from indoctrination with destroy but surely the same would go for refusal... 

EDIT: Sorry, I did not see your post there, Andromidius.

Modifié par Silent Rogue, 28 juin 2012 - 03:23 .

[MaximizedAction]

Silent Rogue wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Silent Rogue wrote...

Does the refusal ending trigger the 'Shepard breathes' scene?

No. It triggers a "we lost" scene and Liara's message is found by the next cycle.

Then how can IT still be possible? I understand the concept behind breaking free from indoctrination with destroy but surely the same would go for refusal... 

Hence, the 'something is up'. And even if failing with SO BE IT is to be interpreted as 'the lack of ability to decide equals giving up'.

Bioware made Shepard make his epic speach about free will, and...that's supposed to be a fail?


Bioware please.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 28 juin 2012 - 03:36 .

[Andromidius]

Silent Rogue wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

Silent Rogue wrote...

Does the refusal ending trigger the 'Shepard breathes' scene?

No. It triggers a "we lost" scene and Liara's message is found by the next cycle.

Then how can IT still be possible? I understand the concept behind breaking free from indoctrination with destroy but surely the same would go for refusal... 

Because the concept is still sound, and the clues and inconsistancies from a literal standpoint are still present.

The EC didn't change things drastical.  It replaced some plotholes with more (extremely telling and interesting) plot holes, and gave new insight into the lies of Starbinger and the falsehood of the 'perfect endings'.

Its rain on the crops.  Time will tell if the harvest is strong, or if it'll fail.