55528 réponses à ce sujet

[Silent Rogue]

Andromidius wrote...

Silent Rogue wrote...

Does the refusal ending trigger the 'Shepard breathes' scene?

No.  Because if they did, it would outright confirm IT, and Bioware didn't want that.

The breath scene, weirdly, is what's causing me the most trouble right now.  It feels somehow out of place now with the 4th ending.

Also the fact Starbinger is fine with you destroying them all, but disagreeing with him pisses him off.  Very suspitious.  Implies it WANTS you to pick Destroy too, only not as much as Control, and not as much again for Synthesis.

Its juat plain baffling from both a literal and IT standpoint.

Well, the purpose behind IT from BW's standpoint was to fool the players along the lines of interactive storytelling, yes? It's something that's never been done before in gaming or anything else for that matter. For the record I think the concept is ingenius. If IT was true they would've revealed that in the EC. Why? Because of the time-span of ME3's relevance in the gaming community (actually imo 3 months is already too long, but whatever). So It just doesn't make sense to me that after all this time they still wouldn't be revealing IT if it were true.

Modifié par Silent Rogue, 28 juin 2012 - 04:06 .

[Dwailing]

Silent Rogue wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Silent Rogue wrote...

Does the refusal ending trigger the 'Shepard breathes' scene?

No.  Because if they did, it would outright confirm IT, and Bioware didn't want that.

The breath scene, weirdly, is what's causing me the most trouble right now.  It feels somehow out of place now with the 4th ending.

Also the fact Starbinger is fine with you destroying them all, but disagreeing with him pisses him off.  Very suspitious.  Implies it WANTS you to pick Destroy too, only not as much as Control, and not as much again for Synthesis.

Its juat plain baffling from both a literal and IT standpoint.

Well, the purpose behind IT from BW's standpoint was to fool the players along the lines of interactive storytelling, yes? It's something that's never been done before in gaming or anything else for that matter. For the record I think the concept is ingenius. If IT was true they would've revealed that in the EC. Why? Because of the time-span of ME3's relevance in the gaming community. Actually imo 3 months is already too long for this. So It just doesn't make sense to me that after all this time they still wouldn't be revealing IT if it were true.

For one thing, BW said upfront that they weren't going to confirm or deny IT.  As much as all of us HOPED that BW was lying, I think we all kind of knew (Even if we weren't willing to admit it.) deep down that they were telling the truth.  Also, you mentioned ME3's relevance.  The fact that we're STILL talking about it after all this time kind of undermines your suggestion that it's losing it's relevance.  With the release of the EC, ME3 is more relevant than ever.

[llbountyhunter]

Smeffects wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Because the concept is still sound, and the clues and inconsistancies from a literal standpoint are still present.

The EC didn't change things drastical.  It replaced some plotholes with more (extremely telling and interesting) plot holes, and gave new insight into the lies of Starbinger and the falsehood of the 'perfect endings'.

Its rain on the crops.  Time will tell if the harvest is strong, or if it'll fail.

Except you (most IT theorist left) are dodging the most important part of what he just said. Refuse would be the most powerful and good ending to pick if IT was correct. You dont pick destroy on their term, you pick destroy on yours with refuse. So if IT is true, why is it the only ending where you lose and unlike destroy you dont have a good dream like the others? Yes you can use a bunch of imagination gymastic and invent another breathing scene for Refuse ending... but its not there in the game and for a reason. U

ntil now IT was forged with using ingame content evidence, the current refuse ending is evidence so strong against IT, it cannot be swept aside. What ever Bioware said about not wanting to debunk IT: anyone can read betwen the line here, they debunked IT (willing or not).

The only reason IT could be still real after the addition of refuse, is if they wrote it so bad that they forgot that refuse and destroy should lead to a simular outcome under IT. It does not, infact both are total opposite for shepard. But since one of the biggest ITout of game arguement is that bad writing cant be at cause, well IT cant be real if it was written correctly... refuse wouldnt exist with destroy. Poor written IT or Poor written literal ending, you be the judge. Id say poor writting anything is poor anyway, might as well just take it literally.

With IT Shepard put the destroy option not the catalyst.  Both sides are trying to get the upper hand and the result is the choice chamber.

Refusal means your giving up on the mental battle. Easiest for indoctrination.  The refusal ending supports IT IMO.

Modifié par llbountyhunter, 28 juin 2012 - 04:06 .

[Riot86]

HellishFiend wrote...

Reposting for new page (click):

Liked the video

The "Mars Glitch" (which was new to me BTW) being fixed makes me wonder if there are other changes like that in the Extended Cut.

For the Cronos Station hull breach however, I've come up with a simple explanation during my first run through the EC...I now believe that is is merely a graphic bug and NOT a hint at IT like I (and many others) originally thought.

Right before entering the 2nd maintenance shaft (the one with the engineers) you come across this part...



The blue marked spot is the entrance to the Proto Reaper, the red one is the Vid Console about Kai Leng.

So, Shepard is now basically standing exactly were the hull brech would be.

Here another screenshot from different viewpoint for comparision, highlighting the place Shepard was in the first screenshot (= the hull breach) in yellow and the Vid console in red.



It seems the hull breach is just a bug, because normally there would be a normal corridor with an "entrance" to a maintenance shaft through a hole in the floor.


...however, this doesn't affect the question you raised in your video - "Why did they fix the glitch on Mars and not the much more obvious one at Cronos Station"?

...so mabye I'm wrong and there is still more to Cronos Station and this strange hole 

Modifié par Riot86, 28 juin 2012 - 04:08 .

[Andromidius]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Is is kind of greedy of me that I want a longer epilogue? Because honestly I didn't get much closure on my friends' fates, other then Jacob seems to be a school teacher, Samara likes sitting on benches and Miranda likes standing around a table with other people.

Even Fallout New Vegas had a more detailed epilogue, and that wasn't a character driven story.

Well, if all goes wel, this won't be the real ending anymore, will it?

I don't want to sound like that spoiled kid who STILL isn't happy with what he got with the EC -- it's great really, and a big thanks to BW for making it --, but there's no real reason to trust the Catalyst.

I'd say parts of it are great.  But it only feels like the first step in the right direction.  Ignoring the mini-rage attack I had at that ridiculous Normandy scene (which I've now come to accept as too surreal to be real) and the terrible art quality for synthesis.

Still revolted by Control and Synthesis.  But hey, maybe that's the point.

[paxxton]

Did you notice how the EC improved the model of the Reaper floating outside the Catalyst's chamber? It looks way better now.

[llbountyhunter]

Silent Rogue wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Silent Rogue wrote...

Does the refusal ending trigger the 'Shepard breathes' scene?

No.  Because if they did, it would outright confirm IT, and Bioware didn't want that.

The breath scene, weirdly, is what's causing me the most trouble right now.  It feels somehow out of place now with the 4th ending.

Also the fact Starbinger is fine with you destroying them all, but disagreeing with him pisses him off.  Very suspitious.  Implies it WANTS you to pick Destroy too, only not as much as Control, and not as much again for Synthesis.

Its juat plain baffling from both a literal and IT standpoint.

Well, the purpose behind IT from BW's standpoint was to fool the players along the lines of interactive storytelling, yes? It's something that's never been done before in gaming or anything else for that matter. For the record I think the concept is ingenius. If IT was true they would've revealed that in the EC. Why? Because of the time-span of ME3's relevance in the gaming community (actually imo 3 months is already too long, but whatever). So It just doesn't make sense to me that after all this time they still wouldn't be revealing IT if it were true.

Also the refusal scene should not trigger the breath scene because it means Shepard is giving up on the mental battle.

[Dwailing]

paxxton wrote...

Did you notice how the EC improved the model of the Reaper floating outside the Catalyst's chamber? It looks way better now.

Yeah, I did notice that.

[masster blaster]

Oh and If Hitler was to say " Oh I killed all theses people to make the world save,/Concentration Camps" Does that mean you will agree to Hitlers terms hell no , so why agree with the Catalyst if it's doing the same thing as Hitler did, but this time killing Organics/Synthetics but not gassing them but becoming liquid fiend to make new Reapers.

Also does that mean all the dictators have to have a good reason of killing people and making their peoples life like hell. NO! That's what the Catalyst has been doing to the Galaxy EVER SINCE IT WAS CREATED. Did it give a F*** about asking the Organics and Synthetics about not wanting to die? No it killed them, and you know what happened after that.

[HellishFiend]

Riot86 wrote...
*snip*

Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.  Didnt take but 20 minutes to make so it was no big deal. Megumi raised the question as to whether or not that computer room was truly added by the EC or not, though. Turbo was the one that sent me the footage, but I didnt corroborate her findings before putting the video together. If anyone is willing to help verify the truth of this evidence, that would be fantastic. 

As for the breach, I still need to read your post, and I may make a video on all the Cronos station oddities as well. 

Modifié par HellishFiend, 28 juin 2012 - 04:13 .

[Big_Boss9]

Silent Rogue wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Silent Rogue wrote...

Does the refusal ending trigger the 'Shepard breathes' scene?

No.  Because if they did, it would outright confirm IT, and Bioware didn't want that.

The breath scene, weirdly, is what's causing me the most trouble right now.  It feels somehow out of place now with the 4th ending.

Also the fact Starbinger is fine with you destroying them all, but disagreeing with him pisses him off.  Very suspitious.  Implies it WANTS you to pick Destroy too, only not as much as Control, and not as much again for Synthesis.

Its juat plain baffling from both a literal and IT standpoint.

Well, the purpose behind IT from BW's standpoint was to fool the players along the lines of interactive storytelling, yes? It's something that's never been done before in gaming or anything else for that matter. For the record I think the concept is ingenius. If IT was true they would've revealed that in the EC. Why? Because of the time-span of ME3's relevance in the gaming community (actually imo 3 months is already too long, but whatever). So It just doesn't make sense to me that after all this time they still wouldn't be revealing IT if it were true.

IIRC, the DLC that significantly altered the ending of Fallout 3 wasn't released until 7 months after the game's original launch, so I wouldn't rule it out here either. Not yet anyway.

[dreamgazer]

paxxton wrote...

Did you notice how the EC improved the model of the Reaper floating outside the Catalyst's chamber? It looks way better now.

Somebody posted that there are several graphical refinements in scattered parts across the game.  I haven't started a new run yet (might not quite yet, with Dawnguard), so I personally can't say either way.  

[HellishFiend]

Riot86 wrote...


Right before entering the 2nd maintenance shaft (the one with the engineers) you come across this part...



The blue marked spot is the entrance to the Proto Reaper, the red one is the Vid Console about Kai Leng.

So, Shepard is now basically standing exactly were the hull brech would be.

Here another screenshot from different viewpoint for comparision, highlighting the place Shepard was in the first screenshot (= the hull breach) in yellow and the Vid console in red.



It seems the hull breach is just a bug, because normally there would be a normal corridor with an "entrance" to a maintenance shaft through a hole in the floor.


...however, this doesn't affect the question you raised in your video - "Why did they fix the glitch on Mars and not the much more obvious one at Cronos Station"?

...so mabye I'm wrong and there is still more to Cronos Station and this strange hole 

Yeah, actually I did notice the fact that it is clearly an unloaded area, and I've had footage waiting to be cropped together into a video for weeks that confirms exactly that. 

However, it doesnt excuse the fact that the breach is so blatantly visible, nor does it explain why powers are misdirected when you aim at the breach. So it is still quite odd. 

Plus, there are numerous other oddities with Cronos station (for example, where is the debris/wreck of the fighter?), so this breach is just one part of the puzzle. 

[Dwailing]

Big_Boss9 wrote...

Silent Rogue wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Silent Rogue wrote...

Does the refusal ending trigger the 'Shepard breathes' scene?

No.  Because if they did, it would outright confirm IT, and Bioware didn't want that.

The breath scene, weirdly, is what's causing me the most trouble right now.  It feels somehow out of place now with the 4th ending.

Also the fact Starbinger is fine with you destroying them all, but disagreeing with him pisses him off.  Very suspitious.  Implies it WANTS you to pick Destroy too, only not as much as Control, and not as much again for Synthesis.

Its juat plain baffling from both a literal and IT standpoint.

Well, the purpose behind IT from BW's standpoint was to fool the players along the lines of interactive storytelling, yes? It's something that's never been done before in gaming or anything else for that matter. For the record I think the concept is ingenius. If IT was true they would've revealed that in the EC. Why? Because of the time-span of ME3's relevance in the gaming community (actually imo 3 months is already too long, but whatever). So It just doesn't make sense to me that after all this time they still wouldn't be revealing IT if it were true.

IIRC, the DLC that significantly altered the ending of Fallout 3 wasn't released until 7 months after the game's original launch, so I wouldn't rule it out here either. Not yet anyway.

Yeah, give BW more time.  Remember, they adjusted the RELEASE schedule for their single-player DLC, that doesn't mean they adjusted the DEVELOPEMENT schedule for their single-player DLC.  It's quite possible that they were developing other DLC at the same time that they developed the EC so that they could release everything else more quickly once the EC was out.

[SubAstris]

smokingotter1 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Silhouett3 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

Anyone still think that IT was BW's original intention for ME3?

Didn't "Final hours" covered this months ago? They intented to indoctrinate Shep and we didn't get to know if they dropped the idea or not.

I meant in light of the EC

What's the difference EC makes?  They may have changed their original intention or sticked with it, but regardless of the intention the endings and the narrative are now essentially the same - extended.

Well if they did change from intending IT originally to one that bolsters a face-value explanation and sidelines IT in the EC, then you have to ask why that is. Many ITers are very quick to say that "IT has massive support!", yet BW's actions show otherwise.

Yeah, IT has massive support in the hard core HTL community, but the HTL community is not representative of the ME buying group as a whole. Not unless HTL has millions of users registered. I lean towards IT, but a trap many people fall for is that the more time they spend inside their closed off community the more time they think the entire world agree's with their worldviews.

Exactly, whatever polls he might have there it still doesn't give a true and accurate representation of the ME player base at large. I'm surprised someone of Arian's towering intellect cannot seem to grasp that

[Silent Rogue]

Dwailing wrote...

Silent Rogue wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Silent Rogue wrote...

Does the refusal ending trigger the 'Shepard breathes' scene?

No.  Because if they did, it would outright confirm IT, and Bioware didn't want that.

The breath scene, weirdly, is what's causing me the most trouble right now.  It feels somehow out of place now with the 4th ending.

Also the fact Starbinger is fine with you destroying them all, but disagreeing with him pisses him off.  Very suspitious.  Implies it WANTS you to pick Destroy too, only not as much as Control, and not as much again for Synthesis.

Its juat plain baffling from both a literal and IT standpoint.

Well, the purpose behind IT from BW's standpoint was to fool the players along the lines of interactive storytelling, yes? It's something that's never been done before in gaming or anything else for that matter. For the record I think the concept is ingenius. If IT was true they would've revealed that in the EC. Why? Because of the time-span of ME3's relevance in the gaming community. Actually imo 3 months is already too long for this. So It just doesn't make sense to me that after all this time they still wouldn't be revealing IT if it were true.

For one thing, BW said upfront that they weren't going to confirm or deny IT.  As much as all of us HOPED that BW was lying, I think we all kind of knew (Even if we weren't willing to admit it.) deep down that they were telling the truth.  Also, you mentioned ME3's relevance.  The fact that we're STILL talking about it after all this time kind of undermines your suggestion that it's losing it's relevance.  With the release of the EC, ME3 is more relevant than ever.

I mean on a larger scale. Maybe 'gaming community' was the wrong term to use. The majority of ME3 players don't daily browse or comment on the ME3 forums. And is it more relevant than ever? I dunno. I'm inclined to believe the launch of the game was much grander than the EC. It is afterall just a dlc.

Modifié par Silent Rogue, 28 juin 2012 - 04:16 .

[Turbo_J]

HellishFiend wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Is is kind of greedy of me that I want a longer epilogue? Because honestly I didn't get much closure on my friends' fates, other then Jacob seems to be a school teacher, Samara likes sitting on benches and Miranda likes standing around a table with other people.

Even Fallout New Vegas had a more detailed epilogue, and that wasn't a character driven story.

Not greedy at all. The monologue + epilogue slides is pretty weak for 3 months of dev time and 1.9 gigs of data. The only thing keeping me from being vastly disappointed is the belief that not all is said and done. 

I'm starting to suspect that the EC is a cover for file size of the first real DLC. It's probably larger than the 2 gig DL limit for consoles. What better way to slip it in there. Evidence is in the files to support this.

Side note:

I'm taking notes on dialog hints through the game. I'm noting all references to London; which start at Alliance HQ.

I'm noting all anti control, synthesis, and destroy dialog from all NPCs.

Miri's chat in the apartments always annoyed me. Why this again! But it's important anti-control dialog.

I'm also noting all instances of character looking at the PLAYER. Someone is trying to tell us something and we are not listening! Not fully. I think the timing of when these things happen may turn out to be quite telling.

I'm also trying to determine when dialog is reduced to a minimum and becomes more or less reused phrases that Shepard has heard before. Essentially, when no new data is available and things become fuzzy bits of memory repurposed to create a 'reality'.

I'll be cutting clips and if you have time, I'll send them Hellish's way to be fancy packaged and posted, time permitting of course.

[SubAstris]

Silhouett3 wrote...

SubAstris wrote...

I understand IT, I am asking you to consider also not just the story implications of IT

Nothing

But I am a fan. Of course my main focus is the fiction itself more than anything. No one can expect me to suddenly enjoy Morinth's -almost insulting- banshee cameo just because she was one of the less popular characters among fan-base. At least retconn a chacter in a proper way right.

What I am trying to say is that too often ITers neglect the implications of their theory in the real world and whether their beliefs about new ending DLC really live up to what a for-profit company would do in such a situation. Making 3 months of pointless dream sequences doesn't constitute sound financial practice

[Uncle Jo]

Now I'm not convinced that destroy is the only way to break free from indoctrination. With low EMS destroy you still can refuse the brat's choice and he gets mad regardless.

Note that if you choose any option implying the Crucible, the last words of Shep are "Let's finish this" (or something like that), while by refuse she says : "At least I'll die knowing I did everything to stop you".

IMO reject demands even more resolve, note also the added dialogue lines insist on "You can't win conventionally", "You're outpowered" in other words "Choose one of my solutions or you're doomed"

Furthermore, only by reject Harby reveals his true nature (voice change).

Modifié par Uncle Jo, 28 juin 2012 - 04:23 .

[paxxton]

dreamgazer wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Did you notice how the EC improved the model of the Reaper floating outside the Catalyst's chamber? It looks way better now.

Somebody posted that there are several graphical refinements in scattered parts across the game.  I haven't started a new run yet (might not quite yet, with Dawnguard), so I personally can't say either way.  

That was me (I posted 2 or 3 changes in the Cronos/Earth/Citadel levels yesterday).

Modifié par paxxton, 28 juin 2012 - 04:22 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

dreamgazer wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Did you notice how the EC improved the model of the Reaper floating outside the Catalyst's chamber? It looks way better now.

Somebody posted that there are several graphical refinements in scattered parts across the game.  I haven't started a new run yet (might not quite yet, with Dawnguard), so I personally can't say either way.  

I can attest to that personally. There are graphical improvements in the EC.

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Is is kind of greedy of me that I want a longer epilogue? Because honestly I didn't get much closure on my friends' fates, other then Jacob seems to be a school teacher, Samara likes sitting on benches and Miranda likes standing around a table with other people.

Even Fallout New Vegas had a more detailed epilogue, and that wasn't a character driven story.

Not greedy at all. The monologue + epilogue slides is pretty weak for 3 months of dev time and 1.9 gigs of data. The only thing keeping me from being vastly disappointed is the belief that not all is said and done. 

Each cinematic comes in four different languages, plust textures to fix mars, additional fixes for banters, and the slides and such. They had to rerecord not only the english voices but the other languages as well. I can see how it took three months to do all of this.

[masster blaster]

Oh and if you pick Synthesis have you forgotten all of the People how have DIED and now THEIR KIDS HAVE NO PARENT"S OR FAMILY and not to mention why the hell is their peace. You would think that Synthesis brings PEACE but it doesn't say that it only states from the GOD CHILD that synthesis would stop the CYCLE not bring peace but stop. And if you think for a moment would you even trust the Reapers after all they have done to KILL YOU. NO. And I hardly think that many people would come to terms with the Reapers being good guys in the end.

Oh and did anyone think about all the PEOPLE THAT WERE being processed to create a Reaper for SHEPARD IN CONTROL. Now that's funny to me because I forgot that ya it does not tale one person to caret a Reaper but Manley millions and maybe BILLIONS.

[HellishFiend]

Turbo_J wrote...


I'm starting to suspect that the EC is a cover for file size of the first real DLC. It's probably larger than the 2 gig DL limit for consoles. What better way to slip it in there. Evidence is in the files to support this.

I hadnt considered that. Good point!! It does seem a bit too convenient that the EC just so happened to be right at the file size limit for 360. 

[masster blaster]

masster blaster wrote...

Oh and If Hitler was to say " Oh I killed all theses people to make the world save,/Concentration Camps" Does that mean you will agree to Hitlers terms hell no , so why agree with the Catalyst if it's doing the same thing as Hitler did, but this time killing Organics/Synthetics but not gassing them but becoming liquid fiend to make new Reapers.

Also does that mean all the dictators have to have a good reason of killing people and making their peoples life like hell. NO! That's what the Catalyst has been doing to the Galaxy EVER SINCE IT WAS CREATED. Did it give a F*** about asking the Organics and Synthetics about not wanting to die? No it killed them, and you know what happened after that.

Did anyone read this?