55528 réponses à ce sujet

[EpyonX3]

TSA_383 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Andromidius wrote...

Is is kind of greedy of me that I want a longer epilogue? Because honestly I didn't get much closure on my friends' fates, other then Jacob seems to be a school teacher, Samara likes sitting on benches and Miranda likes standing around a table with other people.

Even Fallout New Vegas had a more detailed epilogue, and that wasn't a character driven story.

Not greedy at all. The monologue + epilogue slides is pretty weak for 3 months of dev time and 1.9 gigs of data. The only thing keeping me from being vastly disappointed is the belief that not all is said and done. 

Each cinematic comes in four different languages, plust textures to fix mars, additional fixes for banters, and the slides and such. They had to rerecord not only the english voices but the other languages as well. I can see how it took three months to do all of this.

The slides? Really? Those could all be done in a week, and thats without taking up any of the developers' time. It's all artistry. 

Can you prove that our download of the EC includes localization? Besides, even if it includes the localization, that still doesnt equal 1.9 gigs. And I dont know where you get the impression that the EC justifies 3 months of dev time, because Shadow Broker was done in less time and was far more complex and lengthy. 

^The movies themselves actually don't change for each language (they are packed without audio) but there are several audio channels in the main EC .sfar file.

TSA you're correct. I was mistaken. The audio files come in different languages not the actual video files.

Hellish, it still takes time to integrate those slides into the logic of the game. This one thing may not take to long but it doesn't mean the whole process is just as effortless.

They had to first conceptualize all of the dialog and scenes for EC. Write them out, get them approved, get the drawings, cinematics and extra sequences programmed and hooked up into the engine then bug tested. After it's complete, they then have to get it approved by Sony and Xbox before they can distribute, which depending on the platform can take several weeks.

[munnellyladt]

HellishFiend wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Oh and if you pick Synthesis have you forgotten all of the People how have DIED and now THEIR KIDS HAVE NO PARENT"S OR FAMILY and not to mention why the hell is their peace. You would think that Synthesis brings PEACE but it doesn't say that it only states from the GOD CHILD that synthesis would stop the CYCLE not bring peace but stop. And if you think for a moment would you even trust the Reapers after all they have done to KILL YOU. NO. And I hardly think that many people would come to terms with the Reapers being good guys in the end.

Oh and did anyone think about all the PEOPLE THAT WERE being processed to create a Reaper for SHEPARD IN CONTROL. Now that's funny to me because I forgot that ya it does not tale one person to create a Reaper but Manley millions and maybe BILLIONS.

Did anyone read this too?

Yes, and most of us are quite aware of the sophistry, hypocrisy, and fallaciousness of Starbinger's assertions.  Not much left to say about it really. He puts his own foot in his mouth many times, so we dont even really have to try very hard to poke holes in what he says. 

I wish you could do what you did to the reporter,to him.
Hit that renegade button.

"I had enough of your disingenuos assertions!"

*Punch*

Starbinger:"You son of a ****!"

[Arian Dynas]

I have realized, plain and simple, the single simplest reason why I do not, and simply am incapable of accepting Control and Synthesis.

For all that I'm an optimist...

I can't believe in utopias. As far as I am concerned not only does such a thing not exist, the word itself goes straight to it's Greecian root word phrase.

Utopia. Nothing place.

I am a realist, as far as I am concerned the best life can be found in experience and the diversity of life. Every utopia I have ever seen depicted always ALWAYS has something rotten at it's core.

It is just an idea that cannot exist. Just like Synthesis.

[Smeffects]

Andromidius wrote...

Like why would there be a breath scene at all if indoctrination wasn't a part of the ending or if we're supposed to take each ending at face value? 

See thats the thing, yes that scene makes no sense because its not naturally possible to survive this. But this can be simply explained by a lack of logic or overhentousiasm, trying to make an easter egg. Its not like mass effect always followed perfect logic, even during the mass effect 1 (my favourite by far). Exemple: why did sovereign bother fighting shepard on the citadel when shepard had already opened the arms. He was beating the fleet on his own, why even bother with shepard. There was no logic, no reason, even a mediocre human being would have not attacked shepard with victory in his grasp like that. Its typical story telling, just like its typical for a villain or a hero at the end of a movie to survive unsurvivable odds and raise his hand or start moving/breathing. Then the credit goes, he lives!!!

They said one thing that people seems to forget: We wont disprouve IT or approuve it, the content will speak for itself. It did speak for itself. Unless IT is poorly written as well, you simply cant have Refuse be the worse ending. You keep saying they didnt want to prouve shepard lives in refuse so that it wouldnt prouve IT. Then they went a very bad way, the logical idea for a good writter would have been to not bother with refuse.... if refuse is the same as destroy. Which to IT it would be. The fact that they went the extra step, just means IT is even more questionnable then before. You must see this.

I dont want you to stop having a discussion about IT, that current theory is very questionnable now. Its very far from plausible anymore, while with the old ending it was nearly a 50%.

Modifié par Smeffects, 28 juin 2012 - 04:40 .

[paxxton]

Sorry, nothing's here...

Modifié par paxxton, 28 juin 2012 - 04:42 .

[masster blaster]

MaximizedAction wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

Oh and If Hitler was to say " Oh I killed all theses people to make the world save,/Concentration Camps" Does that mean you will agree to Hitlers terms hell no , so why agree with the Catalyst if it's doing the same thing as Hitler did, but this time killing Organics/Synthetics but not gassing them but becoming liquid fiend to make new Reapers.

Also does that mean all the dictators have to have a good reason of killing people and making their peoples life like hell. NO! That's what the Catalyst has been doing to the Galaxy EVER SINCE IT WAS CREATED. Did it give a F*** about asking the Organics and Synthetics about not wanting to die? No it killed them, and you know what happened after that.

BW made sure to explain the Catalyst's intention better. If you trust him, then no one was actually killed, they were preserved in a different form, without a connection to his/her old world, but they kind of live on, not really dead, different, but not dead.

If you, however don't trust the Catalyst, well, then you're right, of course.

Ya but does that mean we let Dictators go free if they killed some many people? No. Also to be far if that's the truth in what youy said then how come then Hitler/Suadum could have said "they are with God now or Al", but did they ? Maybe they did or didn't but Either way do you see my point.

[OdanUrr]

Uncle Jo wrote...

One, that's not the point. Why did he change his voice is the most appropriate question.

Two, You serious ?

He was angry at Shepard's stubbornness?

Absolutely. The Catalyst can take any form, shape, color, voice as indicated by the original endings. Indeed, in the original endings, you can hear three voices when the Catalyst speaks. Since the Catalyst suggests there's a link between him and the Reapers, I don't think it's quite the leap in logic to assume he can mimic the way they speak. Maybe the Reapers did voice their displeasure as one at Shepard's refusal through the Catalyst. Maybe it was just done for dramatic effect. Maybe that's the Catalyst's angry speech. It could even have been Harbinger, though I doubt it since he said nothing the entire game. However, I cannot see how it must have been Harbinger and how that proves Shepard's being indoctrinated. It's just an interpretation, one of many.

[D.Sharrah]

Since this has gotten lost in the swarm of posts...

D.Sharrah wrote...

"Jartar is noted for the discovery of the "Leviathan of Dis," the apparent corpse of a genetically engineered living starship. The Leviathan was found in the bottom of a crater by a batarian survey team, and estimated to be nearly a billion years old. It "disappeared" after a visit to the system by a batarian dreadnought twenty years ago.
Since then, the batarians have steadfastly denied that the Leviathan existed at all – and all the more vociferously when shown recordings of the corpse made by salarian researchers."

"...the Hegemony sent teams of scientists to study the Leviathan of Dis. The Leviathan turned out to be an inactive Reaper and the entire batarian science team was subsequently indoctrinated."

Given the above statements (taken from the codex, planet description and game play) along with the information regarding the "Leviathan DLC" that was included in the EC, I think it is safe to assume that this is fairly significant item to explore/discuss.

First. given this statement from the Catalyst in the EC:

http://www.youtube.c...inEJIejw0w#t=0s

We know that the Catalyst was created as an AI designed to resolve conflict b/w organics and synthetics.  And with this statement:

http://www.youtube.c...nEJIejw0w#t=67s

We know that the Catalyst created the first Reaper from its creators.  Several interesting things here:

1.  The catalyst forced this "evolution" on its creators.
2.  The first example of the "created rebelling against its creators".
3.  The Reapers are created in the "image" of the Catalyst's creators.

The next few points are things that we might be able to assume but not necessarily confirm (given the information that we currently have):

1.  This forced evolution, could be the first example of "Control" - notice that this would suggest that the concept is synthetic in origin.  Make what assumptions of that you will.
2.  The first Reaper (being the first after all) may not have the same level of technological advancement as the majority of Reapers that we see in game (to this point).

And now we get into wild speculation.  I remember from the old forums that the Leviathan of Dis was a hot topic.  Many of us believed that it could be a Reaper (some theorized that it could be Sovereign - a theory that at this point I think can be officially be put to bed).  But the opposition argued that this statement from the planet description, "
...corpse of a genetically engineered living starship...", suggested that it was too "organic" to be a Reaper and therefore likely to be an easter egg.  But given the new information (being discussed here), we know that the Leviathan was in fact a Reaper.  It begs the question, why create a description that causes confusion?  Perhaps, we were supposed to question whether or not it was a Reaper...perhaps, knowing for certain that it was a Reaper would give too much away?

Given the above statements (specifically point 2 of the assumptions), I propose this new theory.  The Leviathan of Dis is the first Reaper created by the Catalyst from its creators.  And considering what we know from the information that is included in the EC about the Leviathan (being a "rogue" Reaper for those that have not seen the information), I think that this fits quite well.  The bigger question then becomes just how dis-satisfied with its creation (the Catalyst) is the Leviathan (after all it did fail in its initial task - given the "necessity" to create the Reapers; and then it forced this "solution via evolution" on them)?  And what implications this has on the ending?

[MegumiAzusa]

HellishFiend wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...


I'm starting to suspect that the EC is a cover for file size of the first real DLC. It's probably larger than the 2 gig DL limit for consoles. What better way to slip it in there. Evidence is in the files to support this.

I hadnt considered that. Good point!! It does seem a bit too convenient that the EC just so happened to be right at the file size limit for 360.

No, BW said they wanted to do more but were constrained by the XBox limit. Also the files do the opposite. When extracted it's 1.3GB videos and 1GB game data. 0.7GB are the London levels alone.

Uncle Jo wrote...

Now I'm not convinced that destroy is the only way to break free from indoctrination. With low EMS destroy you still can refuse the brat's choice and he gets mad regardless.

Note that if you choose any option implying the Crucible, the last words of Shep are "Let's finish this" (or something like that), while by refuse she says : "At least I'll die knowing I did everything to stop you".

IMO reject demands even more resolve, note also the added dialogue lines insist on "You can't win conventionally", "You're outpowered" in other words "Choose one of my solutions or you're doomed"

Furthermore, only by reject Harby reveals his true nature (voice change).

Her last words are "And I'll die free."

[Riot86]

HellishFiend wrote...

Riot86 wrote...

*snip*

Yeah, actually I did notice the fact that it is clearly an unloaded area, and I've had footage waiting to be cropped together into a video for weeks that confirms exactly that. 

However, it doesnt excuse the fact that the breach is so blatantly visible, nor does it explain why powers are misdirected when you aim at the breach. So it is still quite odd. 

Plus, there are numerous other oddities with Cronos station (for example, where is the debris/wreck of the fighter?), so this breach is just one part of the puzzle. 

I just highlighted the bolded part for truth

One thing about Cronos that I always found very weird was the whole encounter with Kai Leng. He appears, says one line and then attacks you. And when he is down, your squad immediately ignores him completly, without even checking whether he is really dead. They even turn their back on him, which is just plain stupid - EDI of all people should point that this is not a clever strategy.

Oh, and the whole encounter reminded me a little of Thessia - Kai Leng interupts you while talking to the Prothean VI, then attacks you and destroys the floor

[D.Sharrah]

Seriously Paxxton.

[weltraumhamster89]

Arian Dynas wrote...

I have realized, plain and simple, the single simplest reason why I do not, and simply am incapable of accepting Control and Synthesis.

For all that I'm an optimist...

I can't believe in utopias. As far as I am concerned not only does such a thing not exist, the word itself goes straight to it's Greecian root word phrase.

Utopia. Nothing place.

I am a realist, as far as I am concerned the best life can be found in experience and the diversity of life. Every utopia I have ever seen depicted always ALWAYS has something rotten at it's core.

It is just an idea that cannot exist. Just like Synthesis.

And that's why I choose destroy. It has its sacrifices, but nothing that cant be repaired if the races work together (which we see they do) and we have actual results we can see directly after we .. errr.. shoot the tubes.

In other threads I gave lengthy statements why synthesis is a horrible abomination and now I learned, that the husks etc. become conscious again after synthesis - imagine the horror of those poor creatures - they are just dead, broken zombies and abominations and to realize that...

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...


TSA you're correct. I was mistaken. The audio files come in different languages not the actual video files.

Hellish, it still takes time to integrate those slides into the logic of the game. This one thing may not take to long but it doesn't mean the whole process is just as effortless.

They had to first conceptualize all of the dialog and scenes for EC. Write them out, get them approved, get the drawings, cinematics and extra sequences programmed and hooked up into the engine then bug tested. After it's complete, they then have to get it approved by Sony and Xbox before they can distribute, which depending on the platform can take several weeks.

That does not take three months. 

[llbountyhunter]

paxxton wrote...

Sorry, nothing's here...

There's was quite alot there... I saw it..<_<

[paxxton]

D.Sharrah wrote...

Seriously Paxxton.

Sorry, I was testing the copy/paste buttons.

[HellishFiend]

Riot86 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Riot86 wrote...

*snip*

Yeah, actually I did notice the fact that it is clearly an unloaded area, and I've had footage waiting to be cropped together into a video for weeks that confirms exactly that. 

However, it doesnt excuse the fact that the breach is so blatantly visible, nor does it explain why powers are misdirected when you aim at the breach. So it is still quite odd. 

Plus, there are numerous other oddities with Cronos station (for example, where is the debris/wreck of the fighter?), so this breach is just one part of the puzzle. 

I just highlighted the bolded part for truth

One thing about Cronos that I always found very weird was the whole encounter with Kai Leng. He appears, says one line and then attacks you. And when he is down, your squad immediately ignores him completly, without even checking whether he is really dead. They even turn their back on him, which is just plain stupid - EDI of all people should point that this is not a clever strategy.

Oh, and the whole encounter reminded me a little of Thessia - Kai Leng interupts you while talking to the Prothean VI, then attacks you and destroys the floor

Indeed, if Cronos is actually partially hallucinated (which I believe), then your squaddies ignoring KL as he approaches you is not only excused, but actually quite understandable. 

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

Turbo_J wrote...


I'm starting to suspect that the EC is a cover for file size of the first real DLC. It's probably larger than the 2 gig DL limit for consoles. What better way to slip it in there. Evidence is in the files to support this.

I hadnt considered that. Good point!! It does seem a bit too convenient that the EC just so happened to be right at the file size limit for 360. 

In the interview with Casey Hudson about EC, he says they tried to fit as much as EC as possible without going over the 2 GB limit of the 360. This suggests that the could have done more but wanted the content identical on all three platforms.

Please dont take this as a personal attack, but considering the state of the game as of this moment, if you believe everything Casey Hudson says, then you're foolish. 

Well I don't expect them to come out say what they have planned in specifics. However, what reasons should I have to not believe him. There's a 2GB limit on the 360, the dlc is 1.9 GB and it actually fixes things not in relation to the ending. I'm sure there could have been for fixes if they could fit it.

That's bad logic, Epyon. Are you saying that lies cannot be hidden within truths? I am quite versed in hiding lies within truths (please dont ask why), and I can tell you that's exactly what I'd say if I was trying to hide the fact that there is something they are trying to hide. 

There has to be a point where you just have to take their word. Did they use EC to put some future unfinished DLC on to the disk? Sure why not? It makes it easier for them to deploy larger DLC in the future without killing their size limit. It's a smart move.

Are they hiding something? No. We know single player DLC is coming. We know it's pre-ending DLC as well.

[Uncle Jo]

MegumiAzusa wrote...

*snip*

Her last words are "And I'll die free."

True. That makes it even more interesting.

[HellishFiend]

llbountyhunter wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Sorry, nothing's here...

There's was quite alot there... I saw it..<_<

My scroll wheel felt it. 

[EpyonX3]

llbountyhunter wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Sorry, nothing's here...

There's was quite alot there... I saw it..<_<

Aww I hate when that happens. Now I don't get to see...

[EpyonX3]

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


TSA you're correct. I was mistaken. The audio files come in different languages not the actual video files.

Hellish, it still takes time to integrate those slides into the logic of the game. This one thing may not take to long but it doesn't mean the whole process is just as effortless.

They had to first conceptualize all of the dialog and scenes for EC. Write them out, get them approved, get the drawings, cinematics and extra sequences programmed and hooked up into the engine then bug tested. After it's complete, they then have to get it approved by Sony and Xbox before they can distribute, which depending on the platform can take several weeks.

That does not take three months. 

Prove it.

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...

There has to be a point where you just have to take their word. Did they use EC to put some future unfinished DLC on to the disk? Sure why not? It makes it easier for them to deploy larger DLC in the future without killing their size limit. It's a smart move.

Are they hiding something? No. We know single player DLC is coming. We know it's pre-ending DLC as well.

Clearly we differ in opinion on where the line should be drawn regarding taking their word. But that would just cause us to go off on a tangent, so lets not. I think there is something hidden in that 1.9 gigs that they dont yet want us to know about. 

[paxxton]

EpyonX3 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

paxxton wrote...

Sorry, nothing's here...

There's was quite alot there... I saw it..<_<

Aww I hate when that happens. Now I don't get to see...

I can repost it if you want?

[HellishFiend]

EpyonX3 wrote...

HellishFiend wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...


TSA you're correct. I was mistaken. The audio files come in different languages not the actual video files.

Hellish, it still takes time to integrate those slides into the logic of the game. This one thing may not take to long but it doesn't mean the whole process is just as effortless.

They had to first conceptualize all of the dialog and scenes for EC. Write them out, get them approved, get the drawings, cinematics and extra sequences programmed and hooked up into the engine then bug tested. After it's complete, they then have to get it approved by Sony and Xbox before they can distribute, which depending on the platform can take several weeks.

That does not take three months. 

Prove it.

No u. 

[munnellyladt]

weltraumhamster89 wrote...

Arian Dynas wrote...

I have realized, plain and simple, the single simplest reason why I do not, and simply am incapable of accepting Control and Synthesis.

For all that I'm an optimist...

I can't believe in utopias. As far as I am concerned not only does such a thing not exist, the word itself goes straight to it's Greecian root word phrase.

Utopia. Nothing place.

I am a realist, as far as I am concerned the best life can be found in experience and the diversity of life. Every utopia I have ever seen depicted always ALWAYS has something rotten at it's core.

It is just an idea that cannot exist. Just like Synthesis.

And that's why I choose destroy. It has its sacrifices, but nothing that cant be repaired if the races work together (which we see they do) and we have actual results we can see directly after we .. errr.. shoot the tubes.

In other threads I gave lengthy statements why synthesis is a horrible abomination and now I learned, that the husks etc. become conscious again after synthesis - imagine the horror of those poor creatures - they are just dead, broken zombies and abominations and to realize that...

Yea,if they had awareness of what they are,they would not take it likely if you no what i mean.