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[Ragnar Dragonfyre]

Indoctrination Theory isn't just about Mass Effect 3, but the culmination of the 3 games combined. The only thing that protects Shepard against indoctrination is plot armor, period. He and his team have spent more time exposed to Reaper forces than anyone else in the galaxy. It's not outlandish that he, or any one of them could become indoctrinated. In the Codex it says that Indoctrination occurs "over days, perhaps a week of exposure". Considering the events of the series takes place over a course of 3 years (minus the year Shep was dead), Shepard has easily been exposed long enough to Reaper's to have been indoctrinated 100x over.

I might be going over some points already made, but I've compiled a list of suspicious events and inconsistencies that lend credence towards IT.

- The StarChild looks like the boy at the beginning of the game.
- The dreams throughout the game are plagued with whispers and Reaper sounds.
- James complaining about the strange buzzing noise in the Hangar.
- The Reaper-like sound that emits from Shepard the moment when he awakes on the Citadel.
- Magic guns.
- Anderson's has a M3-Predator in the controntation with TIM, but pre-beam he had a Carnifex.
- Shepard picks up Carnifex post-beam. Shepard's gun transforms into an M3-Predator in the final moments of his life in the Destroy ending.
- TIM easily controls Anderson and Shepard through indoctrination. Am we to believe TIM has a stronger influence than Sovereign or Harbinger?
- What are the wisps of black smoke during the StarChild scene? They're easy to miss, but they similar to the smoke in Shepard's dream.
- The explosion started by the Crucible doesn't originate from the Sol system

And the one that keeps it alive above all else:

- Shepard lives in spite of what the StarChild says in high asset Destroy.

Until we get an answer about what happens to Shepard after he survives, IT is still in play. Until then it's still plausible that the events post-Beam are an indoctrination induced hallucination.

[byne]

llbountyhunter wrote...

Cecilia L wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Folks:

http://social.biowar...8885/2#12843475

The idea is still viable in the spectrum of interpretation, but temper your expectations.

Well, I would lie if I said that mod message doesn't upset me a bit. But, if IT's predictions are correct, then they will have to comment on it in some way to actually end the war with the Reapers.

That's a fact.

Funny thing is that mod said exactly what I said a week ago.

He refered to IT as a fan made theory and it is. Even if IT is correct, the Indoctrination THEORY is still fan made as opposed to the Indoctrination Plot Twist Ending that we're all waiting for. That one is made by Bioware. Hopefully.

That post says nothing we don't already know. They won't comment on IT.

He's just a mod..... a volus mod at that....

Whats up with people with volus avatars. Have any of them ever supported IT?

[MaximizedAction]

llbountyhunter wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

byne wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

A high EMS refusal option where you actually win.... why is it so hard for them to do?

Because showing it would outright deny IT which they don't want.

I'm going to be real... IT is still an amazing interpretation, the one that I will always believe, but the hope that Bioware will ever embrace it died with the E.C..

I dont see why. The EC didnt change anything.

It did for me.... Most of the smaller clues are gone, or just replaced with slightly less confusing scenes... The final scenes don't seem like shepards dream anymore, just an actual epilogue.

I'm just done waiting for them to un-drop the ball. I'm going to start waiting for Prey 2 because that will be the next good deep space sci-fi game IMO.

I find that while the small clues are gone, the ones that stayed, are now more refined.

And new ones are added....

Well....yes. Somehow SOBEIT by refusal to give into a choice is a puzzle. Totally an anti-Shepard construct.

[masster blaster]

paxxton wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GamerrangerX wrote...

FORGET ABOUT IT,CONTROL ENDING RULE= IMMORTAL SHEPARD

Hell, yeah!!!

Shepard as a Reaper can still die, which makes me wonder if Shepard ever dies in Control but as a Reaper does that mean the God child comes back and the Cycle continus? Just a thought I would like to point out.

He can't die because he embodies the collective intelligence of the Reapers. Until all are destroyed he lives on within them.

Ya but that's what we think and that could be the reason why the god child SMILES when Shepard is leaving his/her organic self.

[MaximizedAction]

HellishFiend wrote...

Mark my words, Bioware will not forever leave the current thematic disasters referred to as "endings" as they are. They would lose a lot of players that actually play BW games for the story. Including me.

Lol, I remember posting something like this in early April.

[FellishBeast]

FFZero wrote...

Okay my friend’s finished cleaning up the audio. The Harbinger talking bit definitely sounds like ‘Serve Us’ and the ‘So be it’ line isn’t the starbrat talking from what we can tell. It doesn’t sound like Harbinger either. It sounds more feminine to me. I’ve uploaded three files here, two ‘serve us’ lines at slightly different pitches and speeds and the ‘so be it’ line.

http://www.mediafire...u8n01f0asnzldi8

I’m heading off now so happy speculating.

Still sounds like "save us" to me.

[balance5050]

llbountyhunter wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

byne wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

A high EMS refusal option where you actually win.... why is it so hard for them to do?

Because showing it would outright deny IT which they don't want.

I'm going to be real... IT is still an amazing interpretation, the one that I will always believe, but the hope that Bioware will ever embrace it died with the E.C..

I dont see why. The EC didnt change anything.

It did for me.... Most of the smaller clues are gone, or just replaced with slightly less confusing scenes... The final scenes don't seem like shepards dream anymore, just an actual epilogue.

I'm just done waiting for them to un-drop the ball. I'm going to start waiting for Prey 2 because that will be the next good deep space sci-fi game IMO.

I find that while the small clues are gone, the ones that stayed, are now more refined.

And new ones are added....

The only new things I saw were some weird looks from my LI Liara. I got REALLY excited when I discovered the refusal ending but when I saw that it's basically just passive aggrssive slap in the face of people who hate Starbingers choices, I got angry and sad again. My hopes will never be raised again for Bioware.

[Cecilia L]

BansheeOwnage wrote...

FellishBeast wrote...

While playing EC I noticed the phrase "This is it" comes up countless times. I thought it was odd.

This has nothing to do with what Paxxton said, btw, but I wouldn't mind seeing him get excited about this information.

Ooo I'll add to it a bit:

"IT is inevitable" How many times did reapers say that? The child?

I wouldn't focus as much on IT being inevitable. The fact that he keeps saying that something is INEVITABLE, though, just fits with everything Harby rants about in ME2 trying to pursuade and convince Shepard that the Reapers are the only way.

[TSA_383]

FFZero wrote...

EpyonX3 wrote...

FFZero wrote...

Okay I had a friend who works with audio try and get rid of as much of the distortion as possible from the bit where harbinger speaks/growls in the EC and it definitely sounds like ‘serve us’. She's still working on it, once I have something clearer I'll post a link to it.

Can she adjust the pitch of the So Be It line aswell? If the pitch can be reverse and it's indeed the catalyst's voice just deeper then we can rule out harbinger.

I'll ask her, do you know the file name for the so be it line, really don't want to have to go through 2000 odd files again...

It was number 622 in the folder you sent me.

[mr.surv]

Uhhhh.. so much posts here.

Two things that bother me.

1. When we shoot astroboy -> deep voice like Harbinger
2. Destroy option -> breath scene.


Maybe when Crucible explode, Shep was somehow transfered/FTL/teleported/something, somewhere in deep galaxy. We all know that Citadel is relay and Crucible is some kind of battery.

[MaximizedAction]

balance5050 wrote...

llbountyhunter wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

byne wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

MegumiAzusa wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

A high EMS refusal option where you actually win.... why is it so hard for them to do?

Because showing it would outright deny IT which they don't want.

I'm going to be real... IT is still an amazing interpretation, the one that I will always believe, but the hope that Bioware will ever embrace it died with the E.C..

I dont see why. The EC didnt change anything.

It did for me.... Most of the smaller clues are gone, or just replaced with slightly less confusing scenes... The final scenes don't seem like shepards dream anymore, just an actual epilogue.

I'm just done waiting for them to un-drop the ball. I'm going to start waiting for Prey 2 because that will be the next good deep space sci-fi game IMO.

I find that while the small clues are gone, the ones that stayed, are now more refined.

And new ones are added....

The only new things I saw were some weird looks from my LI Liara. I got REALLY excited when I discovered the refusal ending but when I saw that it's basically just passive aggrssive slap in the face of people who hate Starbingers choices, I got angry and sad again. My hopes will never be raised again for Bioware.

Nono, if you think about it, it's nothing to be sad about, it actually has something to it, that can give hope.

Didn't the speech Shepard did, give you hope; when telling the Catalyst that he refuses to pic anything? Shepard chose 'free will'. And Bioware actually wants to convince me that 'free will', the basic principle that every man made story incorparates, is without any discussion dismissed as futile?

Because that's what the devs did by automatically making organics fail. No 'but's, only "You want free will? Lolnope".

There had to at least be a discussion about why free will is a no go.

This ending even became more interesting to me than the breath scene.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 28 juin 2012 - 07:51 .

[paxxton]

masster blaster wrote...

paxxton wrote...

masster blaster wrote...

paxxton wrote...

GamerrangerX wrote...

FORGET ABOUT IT,CONTROL ENDING RULE= IMMORTAL SHEPARD

Hell, yeah!!!

Shepard as a Reaper can still die, which makes me wonder if Shepard ever dies in Control but as a Reaper does that mean the God child comes back and the Cycle continus? Just a thought I would like to point out.

He can't die because he embodies the collective intelligence of the Reapers. Until all are destroyed he lives on within them.

Ya but that's what we think and that could be the reason why the god child SMILES when Shepard is leaving his/her organic self.

It's hard to see if he smugs but if he does, it fuels IT.

[Xd2delo]

On why the Synthesis ending seems a little silly to me:

(From the Mass Effect Extended Extended Cut)

Bank Officer: So you're interested in a mortgage, then?
Banshee: <SCREEEEEECH>
Bank Officer: Well, depending on your assets, you may be eligible for 30 year fixed; what assets do you have?
Banshee: <SCREEEEEECH>
Bank Officer: No, I'm afraid war assets don't count. I mean things like stocks, or bonds, or, y'know, money... actually, can you even handle money? You don't really have fingers, more like talons, I'm just kinda noticing. I don't mean to be impolite.
Banshee: <SCREEEEEECH>
Bank Officer: Actually, are you even wearing clothes? Because we kinda have a no shoes, no shirt, no--- OHGODTHETALONSAREINMYLIVER

And....scene. But who knows? Maybe Mass Effect 4 will make the most daring design choice of all- Husk love interest FTW (although only if you picked Synthesis).

[plfranke]

Refusal is even more interesting in that the new stargazer says "they fought the war so we wouldn't have to" but what does that even mean, because the stargazer and child were talking about Shepard's cycle but it's implied that our cycle lost. One would think the cycle that actually defeated the Reapers would be the ones referred to as legends. That would be like taking destroy at face value and saying that the creator of the prothean VI Vendetta ended the reaper threat and became a legend because he passed down the info.

[masster blaster]

masster blaster wrote...

Oh crap remember what Hackett said to Shepard in the response of Shepard asking " why pick me"

Hackett says look you can pay a soldier to run down a hill but you can't pay them to believe.

I am going to try to find the video like so i can get my fact's straight but just think about it.

What I was trying to say was

" You can pay someone to play a game but you can't make them belive in what happended at the end."

Don't you see watch hackett's speech to Shepard about How everyone said that's crazy to do all the stuff Shepard was going to do but Shepard's squad/crew belived in him/her.

Which makes my wonder IT people think it's crazy, or the Literaly ending people think it's crazy.



Watch it and reply back to me please.

[balance5050]

MaximizedAction wrote...

Nono, if you think about it, it's nothing to be sad about, it actually has something to it, that can give hope.

Didn't the speech Shepard did, give you hope; when telling the Catalyst that he refuses to pic anything? Shepard chose 'free will'. And Bioware actually wants to convince me that 'free will', the basic principle that every man made story incorparates, is without any discussion dismissed as futile?

Because that's what the devs did by automatically making organics fail. No 'but's, only "You want free will? Lolnope".

There had to at least be a discussion about why free will is a no go.

This ending even became more interesting to me than the breath scene.

I can't see what happens after you make your choice being "in Shepard's head" anymore, it's too viceral. In the refusal ending, the only reason the next cycle succeeds is by learning from OUR mistakes. It feels like they keep punishing me for wanting to be free. "I won't choose anything and I'll die free" Shepard says. Everyone dies, and it even makes Shepard seem selfish because he forced some other being into making that decision that he refused to make.

The game is trampling on my morals at this point and I've just about run out of patience....

Modifié par balance5050, 28 juin 2012 - 07:58 .

[clennon8]

Very quickly, I want to address the strange mechanical sound that we hear when Shepard wakes up on the Citadel. I have heard a very convincing argument that the sound is Shepard's implants restarting his heart. In other words, he died when he hit the beam and his implants revived him upon arrival. This could also explain why he ended up in a different place than Anderson. Corpses go to one location, living people go to another.

Not saying it's absolutely correct, but it seems quite plausible to me. Shepard does appear to sort of jolt awake in that scene.  It's plausible enough that I wouldn't count that sound as evidence for IT. It probably serves better as evidence for other theories.

Now, the Harbinger "Serve Us" soundbite? THAT is interesting. I want to hear more about that. I'm waiting for someone to clean it up, pitch-change it or whatever, and PROVE that's what Harby is saying. It's a very strong clue.

Modifié par clennon8, 28 juin 2012 - 07:59 .

[TSA_383]

FellishBeast wrote...

While playing EC I noticed the phrase "This is it" comes up countless times. I thought it was odd.

This has nothing to do with what Paxxton said, btw, but I wouldn't mind seeing him get excited about this information.

Also the "the bar, I'm buying" part - repeated by several characters in different ways...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Btw, any speculations on that Shepard now also sees flash'forwards' of the epilogue scenes?

To
me, a strong reason to doubt the realness of the whole scene. But when
my first thought, when I saw those flashforwards: is that a wink to the
player, that we all already saw what the choices will bring? After all,
everyone who plays the EC has already seen the endings...

Would make sense as a nod, would also make sense as Shepard seeing what he/she thinks these things will do. Either would make sense.

[Cecilia L]

I just put forth an IT argument in another thread, thought I'd put it in here although it is probably already discussed:

Geigerstorm wrote...

I so very hope a Reunion DLC is in the works. When Tali (my LI during my EC playthrough) held that placard in her hands but wouldn't place it on the memorial, my heart skipped a bit. She knew -- she felt -- I was still alive.

But how would LI know shep was alive? They should think she's dead regardless of the breath scene.

So if it is an IT hallicination,
1. no breath) Shep knows she is dying and therefore imagines LI grieving her and putting her name on the wall
OR
2. breath scene) Shepard feels she can make it, she imagines that LI will not give up but come looking for her.

Thoughts?

[MaximizedAction]

balance5050 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Nono, if you think about it, it's nothing to be sad about, it actually has something to it, that can give hope.

Didn't the speech Shepard did, give you hope; when telling the Catalyst that he refuses to pic anything? Shepard chose 'free will'. And Bioware actually wants to convince me that 'free will', the basic principle that every man made story incorparates, is without any discussion dismissed as futile?

Because that's what the devs did by automatically making organics fail. No 'but's, only "You want free will? Lolnope".

There had to at least be a discussion about why free will is a no go.

This ending even became more interesting to me than the breath scene.

I can't see what happens after you make your choice being "in Shepard's head" anymore, it's too viceral. In the refusal ending, the only reason the next cycle succeeds is by learning from OUR mistakes. It feels like they keep punishing me for wanting to be free. "I won't choose anything and I'll die free" Shepard says. Everyone dies, and it even makes Shepard seem selfish because he forced some other being into making that decision that he refused to make.

The game is trampling on my morals at this point and I've just about run out of patience....

Exactly! That's my reason to hope that BW is holding something back.
What storyteller in their right state of mind would stand for the message that

free will=game over?

Something's not right here. This is supposed to be a naive Hero's story with the classical Good guy, bad guy story.

And besides, Shepard even looks at the camera when he speaks his last words in that ending.

Modifié par MaximizedAction, 28 juin 2012 - 08:03 .

[FellishBeast]

Cecilia L wrote...

I just put forth an IT argument in another thread, thought I'd put it in here although it is probably already discussed:

Geigerstorm wrote...

I so very hope a Reunion DLC is in the works. When Tali (my LI during my EC playthrough) held that placard in her hands but wouldn't place it on the memorial, my heart skipped a bit. She knew -- she felt -- I was still alive.

But how would LI know shep was alive? They should think she's dead regardless of the breath scene.

So if it is an IT hallicination,
1. no breath) Shep knows she is dying and therefore imagines LI grieving her and putting her name on the wall
OR
2. breath scene) Shepard feels she can make it, she imagines that LI will not give up but come looking for her.

Thoughts?

According to IT the breath is the only thing at the end that isn't a hallucination, so I'ma say no.

[szkasypcze]

I will give you another one guys....

SO BE IT....

just focus on the last word.

[Cecilia L]

plfranke wrote...

Refusal is even more interesting in that the new stargazer says "they fought the war so we wouldn't have to" but what does that even mean, because the stargazer and child were talking about Shepard's cycle but it's implied that our cycle lost. One would think the cycle that actually defeated the Reapers would be the ones referred to as legends. That would be like taking destroy at face value and saying that the creator of the prothean VI Vendetta ended the reaper threat and became a legend because he passed down the info.

 Excellent point.

[balance5050]

MaximizedAction wrote...

balance5050 wrote...

MaximizedAction wrote...

Nono, if you think about it, it's nothing to be sad about, it actually has something to it, that can give hope.

Didn't the speech Shepard did, give you hope; when telling the Catalyst that he refuses to pic anything? Shepard chose 'free will'. And Bioware actually wants to convince me that 'free will', the basic principle that every man made story incorparates, is without any discussion dismissed as futile?

Because that's what the devs did by automatically making organics fail. No 'but's, only "You want free will? Lolnope".

There had to at least be a discussion about why free will is a no go.

This ending even became more interesting to me than the breath scene.

I can't see what happens after you make your choice being "in Shepard's head" anymore, it's too viceral. In the refusal ending, the only reason the next cycle succeeds is by learning from OUR mistakes. It feels like they keep punishing me for wanting to be free. "I won't choose anything and I'll die free" Shepard says. Everyone dies, and it even makes Shepard seem selfish because he forced some other being into making that decision that he refused to make.

The game is trampling on my morals at this point and I've just about run out of patience....

Exactly! That's my reason to hope that BW is holding something back. What storyteller in their right state of mind would stand for the message that

free will=game over?

Something's not right here. Shepard even looks at the camera when he speaks his last words in that ending.

I hope you're right, otherwise Bioware will suffer the biggest fall from grace I have ever witnessed.

[EpyonX3]

FFZero wrote...

Okay my friend’s finished cleaning up the audio. The Harbinger talking bit definitely sounds like ‘Serve Us’ and the ‘So be it’ line isn’t the starbrat talking from what we can tell. It doesn’t sound like Harbinger either. It sounds more feminine to me. I’ve uploaded three files here, two ‘serve us’ lines at slightly different pitches and speeds and the ‘so be it’ line.

http://www.mediafire...u8n01f0asnzldi8

I’m heading off now so happy speculating.

Cool Stuff FFZero. I'll check it out!


EDIT:

So be it comes out the same way when I use premeire. looks like they went a unique route with it.

Modifié par EpyonX3, 28 juin 2012 - 08:07 .